Easter?

[Sikotic™]

It is not the religion, it's the heart of the man. Remember that.

THANK YOU!

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

I'm your average white American citizen

What I'm argueing is he contradictes himself in saying he is American, says Americans are living a lie, then thinks he isn't living a lie despite the fact that he is American.

^^^  You purposely quoted me out of context.  I was clearing up the confusion because before people know me at the forum, they automatically think I'm from somewhere else, or that I'm African American, because there is a stereotype out there that white people in America are not Muslims.  So I have to clear up the stereotype by explaining first that I have an average white American background; then I follow up by explaining the influence Islam has had on my life and how it changed me.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

But instead of celebrating life, they mourn it. In the Middle East muthafucaz parade around BEATING THEMSELVES when holidays like these come around EVERY FUCKIN YEAR, it never ends. So it isn't because Americans are ABOUT family, it is because they are NOT! And I don't side with Americans, I side with pure logic.

Also, you're exposed and brain-washed by all the Anti-Americans, I don't agree with alot of the bullshit in America either, but I do side with logic and logic says that the percentage of people who are on hard drugs such as heroin and cocaine is MUCH higher in the Middle East, a mostly Muslim region. So don't stereotype, be real about your shit. Have you ever been to the ghettos of Middle East and seen muthafucaz play with needles every other hour like its cigarrets? These are the same people who pray 5 times a day. Does that make the religion of Islam a bad thing? No, the principles are beautiful.

Rod, you shouldn't speak on behalf of the Muslim world because #1. you aren't a Muslim.  Secondly, that practice you talk about of "BEATING THEMSELVES" is a practice that is not mentioned in the Qu'ran and was never done by the Prophet Muhammad (saws); it was actually a practice developed by a small percentage of Muslims to commemorate the assasination of the grandchildren of the Prophet Muhammad Hassan and Hussien (rahmatullah alaiy).  Less than 10% of the Muslim world participates in that practice.

Also, Iran may have a drug problem, but that does not mean that the rest of the Muslim world does.  60% of Africa is Muslim, and the Muslim countries in Africa do not have drug problems.  Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world and they do not have a drug problem anywhere near the magnitude of the United States.  etc., etc., etc.

Now, in your post you are measuring success and happiness in terms of wealth.  America has proven itself to be excellent at accumulating wealth (nevermind for now that the wealth is hoarded by the top 1%, who has more wealth than the bottom 99%, or nevermind the fact that America has spent the last 50 years sabatoging the Iranian economy).  However, America's wealth has nothing to do with Christianity, Western culture only became wealthy after they seperated from the church as a result of the renaissance.  Islam experienced a millenium of economic prosperity while the Europe was in the dark ages.  Islam does not discourage bussiness and trade as long as it is done in fairness.  Infact, take Friday prayer for example (Friday is the most religious day of the week for Muslims), Allah does not tell Muslims to take the whole day off to pray, but rather he says to enjoin the midday prayer in congregation and then gives permission to go out and seek the bouties of the Lord in trade and commerce.

The whole fake it till you make it thing is not cool with me.  I don't believe in being fake, I believe in keeping it real.  I have different priorities then you.  It's not worth it for me to be fake. 

[dexter]

Why does it bother you if Christians celebrate Easter?  I'm agnostic but it doesn't bother me in the least bit if people celebrate easter, hanukkah (i'm sure i butchered the spelling), ramadan, whatever.  This day doesn't hold significance to me at all, but it does to others.  So on a day that some people do find happiness, why does that bother you?

most christian holidays do have pagan origins, so asking people their opinions on these holidays isn't necessarily an intolerant question.  the catholic church hijacked and redefined many pagan holidays as a way of attracting christian converts.
there are several christian sects that do not support these holidays.  jehovah's witnesses do not celebrate easter.  seventh day adventists (i attended this church as a youth) acknowledge the pagan origins, but see no real harm in celebrating christmas or easter...etc.  even if it is a pagan holiday that has adapted pagan symbolism; it's not like they start worshipping the pagan gods.
i don't see the harm in questioning the holiday, or asking people why they celebrate it.  down in mexico they took the week off and were going to church everyday.  that can't be a bad thing.

why isn't the effect to which the catholic church shaped the current direction of christianity, and the motivation behind those actions a valid question?  the catholic influence represents an interesing shift in focus, as many of the early christians largely focused on understanding and following christ's teachings; yet the catholic church shifted that focus to a celebration of christ, and to a lesser extent mary.  the easter holiday is a direct reflection of this.

i don't see this as an issue of intolerance.




PAGAN

[WestCoasta]

damn I love America, so sweet how we're #1

[ZILLA THA GOODFELLA]

Rod, you shouldn't speak on behalf of the Muslim world because #1. you aren't a Muslim.  Secondly, that practice you talk about of "BEATING THEMSELVES" is a practice that is not mentioned in the Qu'ran and was never done by the Prophet Muhammad (saws); it was actually a practice developed by a small percentage of Muslims to commemorate the assasination of the grandchildren of the Prophet Muhammad Hassan and Hussien (rahmatullah alaiy).  Less than 10% of the Muslim world participates in that practice.

Also, Iran may have a drug problem, but that does not mean that the rest of the Muslim world does.  60% of Africa is Muslim, and the Muslim countries in Africa do not have drug problems.  Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world and they do not have a drug problem anywhere near the magnitude of the United States.  etc., etc., etc.

Now, in your post you are measuring success and happiness in terms of wealth.  America has proven itself to be excellent at accumulating wealth (nevermind for now that the wealth is hoarded by the top 1%, who has more wealth than the bottom 99%, or nevermind the fact that America has spent the last 50 years sabatoging the Iranian economy).  However, America's wealth has nothing to do with Christianity, Western culture only became wealthy after they seperated from the church as a result of the renaissance.  Islam experienced a millenium of economic prosperity while the Europe was in the dark ages.  Islam does not discourage bussiness and trade as long as it is done in fairness.  Infact, take Friday prayer for example (Friday is the most religious day of the week for Muslims), Allah does not tell Muslims to take the whole day off to pray, but rather he says to enjoin the midday prayer in congregation and then gives permission to go out and seek the bouties of the Lord in trade and commerce.

The whole fake it till you make it thing is not cool with me.  I don't believe in being fake, I believe in keeping it real.  I have different priorities then you.  It's not worth it for me to be fake. 

I wasn't speaking on behalf of Muslims. You just love pointing out how I'm not a Muslim even though I'm Middle Eastern, like it matters to me. It's true, I don't practice Islam, so why should I label myself a Muslim since I'm Middle Eastern? All you see is extreme Muslims in your lil mosque and actually believe they represent majority of "Muslims". Well, here's the big secret....Most Muslims don't practice Islam. "Muslim" is just what they grew up as and usually they stay that way. When they say there are 1 billion Muslims in the world, they are measuring who is born into what. You act like Muslims are these superior non-sinning angels which they are not. And before you start talking shit about my family or people I hang out with, let me tell you that I've been to 11 different countries, lived in 4, from the slums to suburbs to murder capitals. I've analyzed all kinds of people, you have no clue what my life has been like, trust I know what I'm talking about. What's the point of a fake Muslim? It's non-sense. How can you do drugs, drink, party all night, fuck bitches, beat people up, commit all kinds of sins and then call yourself a Muslim because you pray to Allah 5 times a day and fast for 30 days? Maybe TECH or the majority of Muslims in my life can answer this for me, but then again, their answer won't make sense. If you aren't doing EXACTLY what Allah wants you to do, then you can't be a follower. So why label yourself a follower? A person like me truely believes that I won't go to hell for drinking, smokin and having relations with females. I truely believe I will go to heaven because I have a good heart and have been to places where I could have turned into a psycho just like the people I was riding with, but it was my good heart that turned me around after making so many mistakes. Does that make sense? I think it's a dis-respect to that religion or way of living to label myself something I don't follow or believe in. It's simple as that. Now if you wanna suck TECH's balls just because he labels himself a Muslim, be my guest. But just know that he represents over 80% of Muslims who pretty much follow this hypocracy. And I'm not exagerrating one bit. I've been to MANY churches, in some cases Christians are worse because they will lie their ass off infront of the cross in Church while they're fuckin everyone at that church. It's unbelivable. Although I have nothing against Tech, I'm sure me and him would get along just fine. I'm just making the point that we all know but choose to ignore.

Now let's see.... 60% of Africa might be Muslim, but more than 60% are also in Poverty, and they don't have access to drugs like they do in other parts of the world. Trust if they had access to that escape, they'd participate in it with all the hardships that they go through. Islam wouldn't get in the way of it for the majority of them. Even the most dedicated are human. And Indonesia? have you ever been there? I have, drugs are rare there also, plus it is a land of poverty for the most part. People in general aren't concerned with it in those areas. In both the Middle East and America, drugs are EVERYWHERE, word of mouth travels, money is being made, the governement has hands in it, therefore people have more access to it. And the problem isn't just in Iran LMAO... As a matter of fact they don't even like to see it as a problem in places like Afghanastan, Jordan, Sudan etc. Drugs abuse is normal just like female abuse out there. My whole point is, it isn't the religion. It's the heart of man and the society he's in.

And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.

Also, when I say "fake it till you make it", it isn't meant to be taken literally. It is all in the mind. I was only trying to show you how 'selling fantasies' to kids is actually a good thing and a confidence builder. But nevermind....I have no time to explain. I'm sure the people that want to understand will understand what I meant in my previous post.

[WestCoasta]

^^^ best post ever, dude nailed it

You act like Muslims are these superior non-sinning angels which they are not.....

What's the point of a fake Muslim? It's non-sense. How can you do drugs, drink, party all night, fuck bitches, beat people up, commit all kinds of sins and then call yourself a Muslim because you pray to Allah 5 times a day and fast for 30 days? If you aren't doing EXACTLY what Allah wants you to do, then you can't be a follower. So why label yourself a follower?

yep, just like these fuckin terrorists, they claim to be the best muslims and the ones committing violence in the name of the muslim god

yet they go against all that shit that they learn..... it's just like some weirdo who fuckin kills people and then thinks cause he believes in God that he's on the good side, and ONLY because he's religious and loves God.... that's why I hate fuckin religion

EVERY RELIGION is contradicting and full of bullshit losers who are bitter about some shit

religious freaks are just lost souls, they lost their minds and they think pledging to God will get them to where they need to be and make everything great

sounds like this clown Amir Allah Dickhead posting here, probably got tired of bein a faggot lil white boy being made fun of so he got all anti-America and anti-people and fuck everyone mentality, and so he found some religious bullshit that he bought and now he knows all whats up with the world.... bitch I know what's up with the world, get at me

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.

The bottom line is all the stuff your talking means absolutely zero to me when it comes to me striving to be a better person.  Because, I've already lived with your mentality before I was Muslim.  What matters to me is that when I was 18 years old and I was lost and devoid of giudance, there was a Muslim, from a Muslim country, who did care about following the Qu'ran, and who did show me that there was a better way of life out there than the one I was living. That meant something to me. 

(Now that I think about it, we did have an Iranian immigrant at my jr. high and high school who was like you, my only impression of her was that she wanted to be like us Americans.  I never paid any attention to her)

You only follow your desires, there is nothing impressive about that, a bird can do that.  A bird follows it's instincts, works to feed itself, has offspring, and teaches it's offspring how to feed itself.  However, I believe that as men we do have to provide for ourselves and families, and every man is inclined towards sex; but we also have a higher purpose and that purpose is to worship our Creator. 

You may say that there are many Muslims who don't follow Islam, but there are also many millions that do, I see them everyday.  Some may have shortcomings but as long as they make repentence to their Creator for their sins, then Allah can forgive because he created the condition of sin and he created the condition of forgiveness.   We came from our Creator, and we will return to our Creator, I believe we should spend our lives worshipping him as well.

[BizzyR.I.P.]

And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.

Rod, your good at explaining yourself, and that's cool; you can go ahead and explain it to yourself.  But all of that means zero to me.  Your nothing new under the son.  I have no doubt that there are thousands of people out there like you who don't care about following the Qu'ran or submitting to God, and just want to fullfill their desires.  I'm totally aware of that.  How do you think I grew up?  What do you think I used to do back in the day?

But the bottom line is all the stuff your talking means absolutely zero to me.  I've already lived with that mentality.  What matters to me is that when I was 18 years old and I was lost and devoid of giudance, there was a Muslim, from a Muslim country, who did care about following the Qu'ran, and who did show me that there was a better way of life out there than the one I was living. I went to the masjid and found a whole community of people, everyone of them was more impressive than anyone I'd met previously in my life, I went to Hajj in Mekkah and found people from all over the striving to be better people and acting to please their Creator.   So after you've seen and experienced that, why would I care about what your saying?  Why would I be impressed with you?  I know there are other people out there like you who come from Muslim countries and don't care about Islam.  However, my focus is upon those who do, because they are a benefit to me and others.

And as far as Tech goes, he's way different than you.  He is a Muslim.  He identifies himself as a Muslim, and he makes repetence to his Creator for his sins. 

You only follow your desires, there is nothing impressive about that, a bird can do that.  A bird follows it's instincts, works to feed itself, has offspring, and teaches it's offspring how to feed itself.  However, I believe that as men we do have to provide for ourselves and families, and every man is inclined towards sex; but we also have a higher purpose and that purpose is to worship our Creator. 

You may say that there are many Muslims who don't follow Islam, but there are also many millions that do, I see them everyday. 

Dude your a fuckin lame. You don't care what Rod is saying because you went to Hajj in Mekkah and saw others as brainwashed as you? And if you haven't noticed its YOU who people don't take serious here.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Rod, your good at explaining yourself, and that's cool; you can go ahead and explain it to yourself.  But all of that means zero to me.

Fallow your own advice. The funny thing is YOU started this topic and you are always starting topics about Muslims and what not and now that Rod Has come up with a good, well written arguement, you want him to keep it to himslef and it means zero to you.

But the bottom line is all the stuff your talking means absolutely zero to me.

It must mean something, becasue you post about Muslims all the time. Why does this Muslim issues mean nothing to you now?

Also, Iran may have a drug problem, but that does not mean that the rest of the Muslim world does.  60% of Africa is Muslim, and the Muslim countries in Africa do not have drug problems.  Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world and they do not have a drug problem anywhere near the magnitude of the United States.  etc., etc., etc.

Yet another lie told by Infinte. Africa is 40% Muslim (same with Christianity) and both are spreading at a great rate. In fact there is great debate over which one is growing faster. The most populous country in Africa (Nigeria) is majority Christain and dosen't have a major drug problem.

I went to the masjid and found a whole community of people, everyone of them was more impressive than anyone I'd met previously in my life, I went to Hajj in Mekkah and found people from all over the striving to be better people and acting to please their Creator.   So after you've seen and experienced that, why would I care about what your saying?  Why would I be impressed with you?[/i]

I've been to a church IN LOS ANGELES when I was a kid (about 10 years old I think) and I saw women crying because they were so moved by worshiping and by the presence of God. Most of these people will think about the Lord in life as much as you any Muslim will think about Allah. So I ask you "So after you've seen and experienced that, why would I care about what your saying?  Why would I be impressed with you?"

[WestCoasta]

haha, Infinite providing more reasons why he's a loser


his last post proved my previous post to be correct... he's just some lost confused bastard who got pissed at life and thinks to make it better he shall worship the almighty creator, and a better life awaits him

ey man, whatever turns you on, have fun wasting ur life, and I'll have fun wasting mine in your eyes


   Satan is THA man

[WestCoasta]

how many times has Infinite been owned and proven wrong on this board?



I'm kinda curious

[BizzyR.I.P.]

how many times has Infinite been owned and proven wrong on this board?



I'm kinda curious

Shits uncountable

[Sikotic™]

And really, you're what I call a TRY-HARD. Most of your posts contain hate towards Christians, sometimes hidden but obvious, but at the same time you try to promote Islam. Well let me be the 1st to tell you how that does not work and never will.

All you gotta do is look at history to figure that out.

You don't have to agree with other's religions or beliefs, but at least RESPECT them. It's not that I'm scared or a pussy, I just do it out of respect. I still respect the ideas and purpose of the religion even if I don't believe in it. I don't agree with lots of the ideas and practices of Islam, but you'll never see me come up in here and tell you how I believe the religion is bogus. Never have, never will. You can't point it out because it doesn't exist. As long as a religion have positive teachings, I'm all for it.

That's one thing about most major religions I don't like: they don't teach tolerance towards other people. This goes for Muslims and Christians. Until Christians and Muslims can understand that they can't change eachother's minds (willingly or forcefully) then things will never change.

[nibs]

All you see is extreme Muslims in your lil mosque and actually believe they represent majority of "Muslims". Well, here's the big secret....Most Muslims don't practice Islam. "Muslim" is just what they grew up as and usually they stay that way. When they say there are 1 billion Muslims in the world, they are measuring who is born into what.

zilla, you say things that are both insightful and yet also contradictory.  
the world as a whole seems to be in a state of spiritual and conscious decline, as people across the world are living in impractical and unnatural communities and arrangements.

look first at your argument for the benefits for easter: you argued along the lines of strengthening the family bond.  religion as an excuse to strengthen the family.  you conceded that society pushes people away from spending time together, and now religion was having the effect of repairing that.
your argument is a condemnation of society; and an illustration of how a holiday with questionable origins has further lost it's religious value.  a religious holiday that serves a function other than something religious or spiritual?  to use your words...what's the point?  isn't that what thanksgiving is for?  any holiday can do that.

additionally, religion across cultures has acted to establish and repair a communal identity, the notion that all people were equal before god and should love each other...etc.  religion serves to broaden ones identity beyond the boundaries of the family.  now you argue that the value of religion is in repairing the family identity.  this is yet another condemnation at how self-centered and selfish society and the human consciousness have become.  if people use religion to focus on the family, when do they actually focus on their spirituality?  surely all bases need to be covered.  this is a problem that your argument identifies.

there is some contradiction in your statements as you have identified and acknowledged several problems, but at the same time you adorn america with praise.  it's that mindset of the american dream, of capitalism and competition; that largely contributes to the selfish individualistic perspective and destroys that sense of community that religion characterizes.  you can praise america for it's wealth, but to praise american values in a thread about christian holidays seems contradictory as american values are almost inherently anti-christian.  they are mutually exclusive.

you touched on an interesting point with your example of muslims "raised as muslims without an appreciation for islam".  there is a sense of irony there as qu'ran states directly "do not follow the traditions of your parents blindly without questioning it"; while those were passages ultimately comdemning the practice of idolatry, the same principles would apply to whatever belief system; mechanically following one's parents without a genuine appreciation for those beliefs and their purpose is of questionable value.  the qu'ran also suggests it isn't until a person is mature (40 years old) that they can really be expected to appreciate life, purpose...etc.  so the very arguments and situations you discuss are supported and predicted within the qu'ran as well.  

at the same time, as you hinted this same condemnation applies to christianity.  you could easily make the same arguments against individuals growing up in christian households, having an idea of "right and wrong" as expressed by the faith; but still lacking a genuine appreciation for it.  and just as you ask: "what's the point of a fake muslim?"  what's the point of a fake christian or fake religious holidays?  it's like an iced out jesus piece in many ways; maybe it looks nice; but it's function bears no resemblence to the origin of it's purpose and symbolism.  

infinite identified a problem, used easter as an example of this problem; and proposed a solution (islam)
you have assaulted his solution but in many ways conceded the existance of the problem.  your comments seem more of a condemnation of society than a ringing endorsement of the easter holiday.  

If you aren't doing EXACTLY what Allah wants you to do, then you can't be a follower. So why label yourself a follower?

i don't know that that is a fair assessment.  no religion expects it's followers to be without sin.  the qu'ran mentions a similar debate over whether to use the term muslim vs mu'men.

sura 49:14
The Arabs of the desert say, `We believe.' Say, `You have not truly believed yet, but rather say, `We have submitted, for true faith has not yet entered into your hearts.' But if you obey ALLAH and HIS Messenger, HE will not detract anything from your deeds. Surely, ALLAH is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

but i don't think your point was the labels people  apply or associate themselves with, but what good simply associating oneself with such a label actually does.
   

A person like me truely believes that I won't go to hell for drinking, smokin and having relations with females. I truely believe I will go to heaven because I have a good heart and have been to places where I could have turned into a psycho just like the people I was riding with, but it was my good heart that turned me around after making so many mistakes. Does that make sense?

one problem with religion is the strictness and absoluteness in the portrayal of punishment and reward.  i am more inclined to believe that life and existence is a progression.  similarly the qu'ran states that there are varying levels of reward; which also implies progression and graduation.  greater reward reflects being closer to god.  also; the idea of varying degrees of reward should dissuade all from questioning how sincere a muslim or christian or whatever is.  each will be rewarded or punished what they deserve.  
now, you state that you believe in heaven; yet you get to make up the criteria for heaven on your own?   that's a very convenient arrangement.  your conjecture could be correct; it's also possible that you are  incorrect, and the requirements for heaven are a little more strict than you think.  who knows?  another purpose of religion is to provide a little guidance in resolving issues like that.  which is why i find the notion of a religious holiday with no religious function to be a little amusing.  heaven itself is a largely religious/spiritual idea; the notion that you could determine the rules on your own without guidance sounds very similar to the heroin addicts you describe thinking they are okay because they pray five times a day.  maybe they are, maybe they aren't.  i agree with your theory that it is what is in a person's heart that matters most; at the same time surely they would still benefit from appropriate guidance.  

your argument as a whole is slightly contradictory as you excuse easter because people do get some good out of it (outside of religion); then you turn around and identify people who don't take religion seriously enough and suggest they suffer as a result...so which way is it?  should people take religion seriously or not?