Author Topic: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...  (Read 281 times)

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Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« on: May 02, 2006, 12:12:57 AM »
I am stating historical fact here. 

The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.  After the popularity of Jesus had reached Europe and became prevelant amongst the people, Constantine decided at the Council of Nicea that they would co-opt Jesus into their religion, and still keep the same name.  This, by the way, was about 300 years after Jesus died.
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coola

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 04:18:07 AM »
didnt mohammed do the same thing ?
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2006, 07:02:18 AM »
didnt mohammed do the same thing ?

muhammad didn't claim to be starting a new religion.  muhammad stated that islam was the original religion and that his predecessors were also muslims.
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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2006, 07:03:16 AM »
didnt mohammed do the same thing ?

The year 316 or 317 so called Saints(lol) started worshipping on SUNday(Sun GOD) Baal.
 

coola

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 08:04:37 AM »
didnt mohammed do the same thing ?

muhammad didn't claim to be starting a new religion.  muhammad stated that islam was the original religion and that his predecessors were also muslims.

ok so thats starting a new religion buddy. i see what you're saying, but in effect it's still starting a new religion...
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 08:12:26 AM »
didnt mohammed do the same thing ?

muhammad didn't claim to be starting a new religion.  muhammad stated that islam was the original religion and that his predecessors were also muslims.

ok so thats starting a new religion buddy. i see what you're saying, but in effect it's still starting a new religion...

to justify things in religion, you often have to wriggle around, re-define, cloud the sky and shit.
I used to be a pain in the ass towards religious people, but now I just hold the liberal position that everybody has the right to have a certain attitude without noone to bitch about it, as long as he aint hurting anyone because of his attitude.
Fuck it, if religion is what makes ppl happy, more power to them.

that doesn't mean you should feel superior because you think your faith is "better".

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 09:10:07 AM »
Why do you keep making these threads?
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 09:28:14 AM »
ok so thats starting a new religion buddy. i see what you're saying, but in effect it's still starting a new religion...

we are getting off topic here.  infinite was suggesting that catholicism had pagan origins; and asking if people see a problem with this, as most of modern mainstream christianity derives from catholicism.

whether or not muhammad borrowed an "old" name for his "new" religion is irrelevent, as the "old" religion isn't some pagan religion.  muhammad embraces the "old religion".

do catholics embrace their pagan roots in a similar manner?

to justify things in religion, you often have to wriggle around, re-define, cloud the sky and shit.
I used to be a pain in the ass towards religious people, but now I just hold the liberal position that everybody has the right to have a certain attitude without noone to bitch about it, as long as he aint hurting anyone because of his attitude.
Fuck it, if religion is what makes ppl happy, more power to them.

for the most part i believe you are correct. 
at the same time people should be willing to defend what they believe in.  this isn't some sort of unfair assault; if infinite has questions...why not simply answer the questions?  if people wish to challenge infinite on his beliefs i'm sure he's ready to defend those.
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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2006, 10:07:54 AM »
I am stating historical fact here. 

The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.  After the popularity of Jesus had reached Europe and became prevelant amongst the people, Constantine decided at the Council of Nicea that they would co-opt Jesus into their religion, and still keep the same name.  This, by the way, was about 300 years after Jesus died.


The word catholic comes from the latin word; catholicus, which comes from the Greek word; katholikos, and they both stand for universal or universally accepted. Of course it isn't universally accepted and the Greek Church is the Orthodox Church and the Roman Church is the Catholic Church. The Greek takes the claim of the original doctrine while the admittedly altered Catholic Church takes the claim of the universally accepted doctrine. In laments terms; the Orthodox believe that follow the religion according to its roots and how it was established by Paul and Peter and the Catholics belive the Pope is the successor and has the ability to act as rule maker and change what he sees fit to change.

Once again Infinite your bias stupidity has exposed itself as a simple minded attack on that which you don't believe in personally. You didn't just state fact as you claimed to. You stated a false assumption with the intent to undermine the Christian Religion. This only works on stupid people that can't read well or research information. In fact the word Catholic wasn't even applied to the Catholic Church until I think the 16th Century AD, thus making Constantine's decision impossible. You may want to try and use unbiased athiest inspired sources to get information with out an agenda. Using hello-islam.com or whatever it is you use probably isn't the best place to find info on the history of Christianity since they would have a reason to fabricate (much like I wouldn't use Christain websites as an authority for what I read on Islam).
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2006, 11:02:02 AM »
The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.

The word catholic comes from the latin word; catholicus, which comes from the Greek word; katholikos, and they both stand for universal or universally accepted.

you've actually strengthened infinite's argument.  "catholic" was a preexisting word, a word representing a principle.  there are numerous theories to how paul blended pagan rituals and beliefs with judiasm and used jesus as the central character, replacing other mythical characters with jesus.  this amalgamation of paganism came to be known as catholicism, as catholicism became a huge umbrella incorporating principles supported by the followers of christ; paul's distortions of the teachings of christ; as well as pagan rituals of the time. 
additionally, it's been documented that the teachings of paul contradicted the teachings of james, jesus brother. 

this isn't infinite's crazy idea; there are books written on the matter.  many of these ideas have arisen from interpretting the dead sea scrolls.

whether or not other religions referred to themselves as "catholic" i do not know; infinite will need to cite sources on that.  but clearly it was a pre-existing word that was adopted for their "church".
Quote
In fact the word Catholic wasn't even applied to the Catholic Church until I think the 16th Century AD, thus making Constantine's decision impossible.

actually the phrase "catholic church" had been used as early as 107 ad; by saint ignatius of antioch

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.htm
the catholicity of the Church (Smyrn., c. viii); the infallibility of the Church (Philad., c. iii; Ephes., cc. xvi, xvii); the doctrine of the Eucharist (Smyrn., c. viii), which word we find for the first time applied to the Blessed Sacrament, just as in Smyrn., viii, we meet for the first time the phrase "Catholic Church", used to designate all Christians

so the phrase "catholic church" had been around before constantine.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2006, 11:04:26 AM by nibs »
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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2006, 12:11:54 PM »

this aint basketball, it's not about competing!


but it gets their dicks hard fighting over something no one can ever prove.
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2006, 12:31:10 PM »
The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.

The word catholic comes from the latin word; catholicus, which comes from the Greek word; katholikos, and they both stand for universal or universally accepted.

you've actually strengthened infinite's argument.  "catholic" was a preexisting word, a word representing a principle.  there are numerous theories to how paul blended pagan rituals and beliefs with judiasm and used jesus as the central character, replacing other mythical characters with jesus.  this amalgamation of paganism came to be known as catholicism, as catholicism became a huge umbrella incorporating principles supported by the followers of christ; paul's distortions of the teachings of christ; as well as pagan rituals of the time. 
additionally, it's been documented that the teachings of paul contradicted the teachings of james, jesus brother. 

this isn't infinite's crazy idea; there are books written on the matter.  many of these ideas have arisen from interpretting the dead sea scrolls.

whether or not other religions referred to themselves as "catholic" i do not know; infinite will need to cite sources on that.  but clearly it was a pre-existing word that was adopted for their "church".
Quote
In fact the word Catholic wasn't even applied to the Catholic Church until I think the 16th Century AD, thus making Constantine's decision impossible.

actually the phrase "catholic church" had been used as early as 107 ad; by saint ignatius of antioch

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.htm
the catholicity of the Church (Smyrn., c. viii); the infallibility of the Church (Philad., c. iii; Ephes., cc. xvi, xvii); the doctrine of the Eucharist (Smyrn., c. viii), which word we find for the first time applied to the Blessed Sacrament, just as in Smyrn., viii, we meet for the first time the phrase "Catholic Church", used to designate all Christians

so the phrase "catholic church" had been around before constantine.

I'm sure the word was around ans used to describe the universal aceeptance of the Church since there was much debate in the early times as to who wasa real apostle and who was skewing the message, so they came up with a universal system. What I meant was since the 16th century saying you are catholic was not a term used. You just said Christian. Today it implies Christian and as aseeen asa Religion it self by some (Infinite).

Infinite has no argument. The word Christ pre-exists Jesus' in the physical too, that doesn't mean he isn't the annointed one. The fact that lagnuage pre-exists what it represents does not mean it doesn't represent it. And that is the fallacy Infinite chose to use to try and confuse people.
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 01:02:20 PM »
Infinite has no argument. The word Christ pre-exists Jesus' in the physical too, that doesn't mean he isn't the annointed one. The fact that lagnuage pre-exists what it represents does not mean it doesn't represent it. And that is the fallacy Infinite chose to use to try and confuse people.

i agree with you that infinite has not proven his suggestion that the "catholics" were a preexisting pagan religion.

at the same time, i believe infinite's broader argument that catholicism has blended the teachings of christ with pagan beliefs is an accurate charge against the catholic church.  a charge supported by facts uncovered through research; a charge many protestant christian sects have also levied against the catholic church; and a charge born out and supported by inconsistencies within catholic doctrine and actual biblical scripture.

while we both agree that infinite has not substantiated his argument against the origin of the usage of the phrase "catholic church"; i would be surprised if you disagreed about the suspect nature of the catholic church and doctrine itself; which is the larger issue here.
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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 01:58:14 PM »
Infinite has no argument. The word Christ pre-exists Jesus' in the physical too, that doesn't mean he isn't the annointed one. The fact that lagnuage pre-exists what it represents does not mean it doesn't represent it. And that is the fallacy Infinite chose to use to try and confuse people.

i agree with you that infinite has not proven his suggestion that the "catholics" were a preexisting pagan religion.

at the same time, i believe infinite's broader argument that catholicism has blended the teachings of christ with pagan beliefs is an accurate charge against the catholic church.  a charge supported by facts uncovered through research; a charge many protestant christian sects have also levied against the catholic church; and a charge born out and supported by inconsistencies within catholic doctrine and actual biblical scripture.

while we both agree that infinite has not substantiated his argument against the origin of the usage of the phrase "catholic church"; i would be surprised if you disagreed about the suspect nature of the catholic church and doctrine itself; which is the larger issue here.


You won't hear an argument in favour of the Catholic Church from me. I'm raised Orthodox and take that a bit further with my personal beliefs.

And For the record; the only issue here for Infinite is to get people riled up by insulting the validity of their religion. I could spend countless reading material from Christian sources about Islam and it's pagan origins, or various other conspiracy theories and post them one after another but I have no intention in insulting Muslims and have no desire to tell muslims they are wrong because I can't prove it, like Infinite can't prove otherwise. The only way I'll spend any time doing something like that is if God himself comes to me and tells me the absolute truth and to spread it with out conviction. But that hasn't happened yet.
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2006, 03:13:15 PM »
The word Catholic means universal.
 

coola

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2006, 05:26:19 PM »
ok so thats starting a new religion buddy. i see what you're saying, but in effect it's still starting a new religion...

we are getting off topic here.  infinite was suggesting that catholicism had pagan origins; and asking if people see a problem with this, as most of modern mainstream christianity derives from catholicism.

whether or not muhammad borrowed an "old" name for his "new" religion is irrelevent, as the "old" religion isn't some pagan religion.  muhammad embraces the "old religion".

do catholics embrace their pagan roots in a similar manner?

to justify things in religion, you often have to wriggle around, re-define, cloud the sky and shit.
I used to be a pain in the ass towards religious people, but now I just hold the liberal position that everybody has the right to have a certain attitude without noone to bitch about it, as long as he aint hurting anyone because of his attitude.
Fuck it, if religion is what makes ppl happy, more power to them.

for the most part i believe you are correct. 
at the same time people should be willing to defend what they believe in.  this isn't some sort of unfair assault; if infinite has questions...why not simply answer the questions?  if people wish to challenge infinite on his beliefs i'm sure he's ready to defend those.

thats because we dont have pagan beliefs.
 

coola

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2006, 05:29:24 PM »


whats funny is, muslims dont concentrate on practising their religion, they put alot of concentration into bashing others religion, and hanging people for converting.

 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2006, 12:53:14 AM »
The pre-Muhammadal Islam was a pagan religion. This was actually the most essential change in it- transforming it into a monotheistic religion.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2006, 12:57:05 AM »
The pre-Muhammadal Islam was a pagan religion. This was actually the most essential change in it- transforming it into a monotheistic religion.

Hey buddy long time no see. Bulldozed any Palestinian homes lately?

Or were you part of the division that tears down olive trees?
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- Lewis Carroll
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2006, 01:29:47 AM »
I am stating historical fact here. 

The name Catholic was around before Jesus and it was the name of a popular religion in Rome.  After the popularity of Jesus had reached Europe and became prevelant amongst the people, Constantine decided at the Council of Nicea that they would co-opt Jesus into their religion, and still keep the same name.  This, by the way, was about 300 years after Jesus died.
I am stating historical fact here.

your a moron

Discuss.....

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2006, 04:25:13 AM »
The pre-Muhammadal Islam was a pagan religion. This was actually the most essential change in it- transforming it into a monotheistic religion.

If there's one thing you have shown us, it's that we should never underestimate your stupidity.
Pre-Muhammad Islam? Are you really this fucking retarded?
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2006, 06:16:17 AM »
Why do you keep making these threads?
 

coola

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Re: Where the name "Catholic" comes from...
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2006, 06:31:35 AM »
The pre-Muhammadal Islam was a pagan religion. This was actually the most essential change in it- transforming it into a monotheistic religion.

If there's one thing you have shown us, it's that we should never underestimate your stupidity.
Pre-Muhammad Islam? Are you really this fucking retarded?

haha waddup Jamal  ;D lovin how you werent postin until i to da geezy made a post  ;D