Author Topic: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead  (Read 1703 times)

XaNdEr

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2006, 09:16:13 AM »
cant wait 4 this album 2 drop, its gone be crazy  8)

but will.i.am def is wack...listen to his most recent beat 4 busta rhymes, that shit is stupid, not even worth listening 2

it's that bussa bus is on it otherwise i wouldnt even listened it... ???
 

africas seed

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2006, 10:13:30 AM »
lookin forward to any Nas album and hopefully he can deliver on this one with his 1st album on def jam.
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2006, 03:55:46 PM »
Anybody can put Kanye and Just Blaze all over a cd.

CLEARLY, AFTER JAY-Z DISCOVERED AND PUT THEM ON.
LoL, good one.

You still waiting for M.O.P. to drop on G-Unit?

Yeah, I'm a M.O.P. fan, so what ?

Back up your statements...Jay has a better ear for beats than Nas? Anybody can put Kanye and Just Blaze all over a cd. Nas' singles shit on Jay's since 2001.

Won't argue on that, as Jay had some horrible commercial singles, just for the sales & MTV audience, and Nas had some good singles, but singles doesn't make albums alone.
Your hate for Jay-Z shines through in all your posts in this thread, maybe only surpassed by your somewhat unhealthy fascination for Nas, putting him on a godlike pedestal. :-\


My hate for Jay?  I own all his cd's except for the Roc La Familia album.  Just cuz I think Nas is better doesn't mean I'm a Jay hater.  I'd give Reasonable doubt 5/5, Blueprint 4.5 / 5, Black Album 4/5.  And when he drops his next album I'll cop that the day it drops.  I'm always checking for his verses.  I'll torture myself with a Jeezy track just to hear 16 from Jay. 

Having said all of that, it doesn't erase the fact that he released some bullshit singles the last few years - Change Clothes, Me and My Girlfriend.  And I don't give him a pass to put out bullshit for singles just to get airplay.  For some reason its tolerable to most so called hip hop fans, but I think its wack.  I think Nas has been a better representative for hip hop with the types of singles he chooses to put out.
 

Eihtball

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2006, 05:29:20 PM »
Back up your statements...Jay has a better ear for beats than Nas?  Anybody can put Kanye and Just Blaze all over a cd.  Nas' singles shit on Jay's since 2001.  

Yeah, but that's NOW...remember that Jay-Z more-or-less gave Kanye and Just Blaze their first hits with his biggest singles from 2000-02.  So keep that in mind...he made the bandwagons, he didn't ALWAYS follow them.

Both of them have created some very memorable singles.  As far as the discography comparison goes, I think both have pretty strong ones overall.  Nas has at least one classic, Jigga has a questionable classic, so maybe that means Nas' overall discog is better.  But Jigga has been far more consistent throughout his career...he's released one album which was weak ("Hard Knock Life"), while Nas had a 5-year stretch of weak albums (from "It Was Written" up through "Nastradamus", and "Street's Disciple" wasn't exactly great work, either).
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2006, 06:03:03 PM »
Bottom line is, to me, Nas has more classic songs than Jay.  Somebody name Jay's 20 best songs - I bet you Nas 20 best would outshine it.
 

Jome

Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2006, 08:09:33 PM »
My hate for Jay?  I own all his cd's except for the Roc La Familia album.  Just cuz I think Nas is better doesn't mean I'm a Jay hater.  I'd give Reasonable doubt 5/5, Blueprint 4.5 / 5, Black Album 4/5.  And when he drops his next album I'll cop that the day it drops.  I'm always checking for his verses.  I'll torture myself with a Jeezy track just to hear 16 from Jay. 

Having said all of that, it doesn't erase the fact that he released some bullshit singles the last few years - Change Clothes, Me and My Girlfriend.  And I don't give him a pass to put out bullshit for singles just to get airplay.  For some reason its tolerable to most so called hip hop fans, but I think its wack.  I think Nas has been a better representative for hip hop with the types of singles he chooses to put out.

It's all gravy, Nas fans never faze me, in fact I'm one myself.  ;D
I agree with Jay's single choices, Change clothes, Me & my GF, H to the Izzo, Hovi Baby, all poor choices, but I always cared more about the albums than the single(s).

I couldn't help to notice that you put Streets Disciple up against Blueprint 2 instead of Black Album, which came out at about the same time, and God Son up against Black Album instead of Blueprint 2, which came out at the same time. Tactic to make Nas albums look better, or a mistake ?
Because you can say that God Son is better than BP2, but if you said that Streets Disciple is better than Black Album, I doubt you'd get many people to agree.

Also, you can't deny Jay's ear for beats, he more or less started Kanye West & Just Blaze, he helped Rockwilder, Bink, Rick Rock & 9th Wonder to become household names, he gave Neptunes some of their biggest hits or vice versa (when they started), and he just gave Norwegian producers Stargate their international breakthrough.
Can't say the same for Nas, his beat selections looks very random and accidental..

 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2006, 08:56:17 PM »
My hate for Jay? I own all his cd's except for the Roc La Familia album. Just cuz I think Nas is better doesn't mean I'm a Jay hater. I'd give Reasonable doubt 5/5, Blueprint 4.5 / 5, Black Album 4/5. And when he drops his next album I'll cop that the day it drops. I'm always checking for his verses. I'll torture myself with a Jeezy track just to hear 16 from Jay.

Having said all of that, it doesn't erase the fact that he released some bullshit singles the last few years - Change Clothes, Me and My Girlfriend. And I don't give him a pass to put out bullshit for singles just to get airplay. For some reason its tolerable to most so called hip hop fans, but I think its wack. I think Nas has been a better representative for hip hop with the types of singles he chooses to put out.

It's all gravy, Nas fans never faze me, in fact I'm one myself. ;D
I agree with Jay's single choices, Change clothes, Me & my GF, H to the Izzo, Hovi Baby, all poor choices, but I always cared more about the albums than the single(s).

I couldn't help to notice that you put Streets Disciple up against Blueprint 2 instead of Black Album, which came out at about the same time, and God Son up against Black Album instead of Blueprint 2, which came out at the same time. Tactic to make Nas albums look better, or a mistake ?
Because you can say that God Son is better than BP2, but if you said that Streets Disciple is better than Black Album, I doubt you'd get many people to agree.

Also, you can't deny Jay's ear for beats, he more or less started Kanye West & Just Blaze, he helped Rockwilder, Bink, Rick Rock & 9th Wonder to become household names, he gave Neptunes some of their biggest hits or vice versa (when they started), and he just gave Norwegian producers Stargate their international breakthrough.
Can't say the same for Nas, his beat selections looks very random and accidental..



Well I matched them up that way for a reason:  Stillmatic vs. Blueprint = Nas vs. Jay beef, both argued to be classics.  I compared Street's Disciple to BP2 because they were both double albums, and God's Son vs. Black album cuz those were the only two left. 

Jay does have a good ear for beats, but I think Nas is still better, and has had more dope singles.  The only reason I mention singles so much is because I think they are a real gauge of where an artist is at.  Its getting more and more rare for artists (and I use that term loosely in hip hop nowadays) to take any real risks, especially when it comes to releasing singles.  It's become formulaic, pandering, and exploiting.  Most of them aren't exciting anymore.  It used to be that the single was one of the best songs on the album, now its on some watered down, digestable, pander to the ignorant masses bullshit.  And when that becomes acceptable it ultimately hurts hip hop's credibility.

While Jay def did help Kanye get his name out, he isn't responsible for his success.  Kanye was ghost producing all the way back for Ma$e and Harlem World in '97.  D-Dot put him on, and as everybody knows he had multiple offers on the table.  Through The Wire was when Kanye launched into being a top tier artist.  That song blew up because it was incredible, not cuz of his affiliation with Jay.  Don't forget that the Roc had no immediate plans to release his album.  So he paid for that video OUT OF POCKET.  When it blew the fuck up, it forced the Roc's hand into releasing his album.  So yeah, Jay was working with him prior to his superstardom, but he wasn't responsible for it.

And while you say Nas' beat selections look random and accidental, I'd say he's being creative and experimental (which is the essence of artistry in any genre of expression).  And no doubt, when you are experimental, you will inevitably do some things that come out wack.  But I'd take type of wackness over predicatable, watered down music wackness anyday.
 

herpes

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2006, 08:56:50 PM »
My hate for Jay?  I own all his cd's except for the Roc La Familia album.  Just cuz I think Nas is better doesn't mean I'm a Jay hater.  I'd give Reasonable doubt 5/5, Blueprint 4.5 / 5, Black Album 4/5.  And when he drops his next album I'll cop that the day it drops.  I'm always checking for his verses.  I'll torture myself with a Jeezy track just to hear 16 from Jay. 

Having said all of that, it doesn't erase the fact that he released some bullshit singles the last few years - Change Clothes, Me and My Girlfriend.  And I don't give him a pass to put out bullshit for singles just to get airplay.  For some reason its tolerable to most so called hip hop fans, but I think its wack.  I think Nas has been a better representative for hip hop with the types of singles he chooses to put out.

It's all gravy, Nas fans never faze me, in fact I'm one myself.  ;D
I agree with Jay's single choices, Change clothes, Me & my GF, H to the Izzo, Hovi Baby, all poor choices, but I always cared more about the albums than the single(s).

I couldn't help to notice that you put Streets Disciple up against Blueprint 2 instead of Black Album, which came out at about the same time, and God Son up against Black Album instead of Blueprint 2, which came out at the same time. Tactic to make Nas albums look better, or a mistake ?
Because you can say that God Son is better than BP2, but if you said that Streets Disciple is better than Black Album, I doubt you'd get many people to agree.

Also, you can't deny Jay's ear for beats, he more or less started Kanye West & Just Blaze, he helped Rockwilder, Bink, Rick Rock & 9th Wonder to become household names, he gave Neptunes some of their biggest hits or vice versa (when they started), and he just gave Norwegian producers Stargate their international breakthrough.
Can't say the same for Nas, his beat selections looks very random and accidental..


rick rock, bink, and 9th wonder still arent house hold names.  Truth be told if you went up to a random rap fan they wouldnt even know who primo is.  But jay did put on kayne and just blaze on and got them big.  But for the most part most most producers never become household names unless they rap also or really did change the game.
 

Jome

Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2006, 09:29:20 PM »
rick rock, bink, and 9th wonder still arent house hold names.  Truth be told if you went up to a random rap fan they wouldnt even know who primo is.  But jay did put on kayne and just blaze on and got them big.  But for the most part most most producers never become household names unless they rap also or really did change the game.

Well, household names for hiphop fans then, you know what I mean.

Jay does have a good ear for beats, but I think Nas is still better, and has had more dope singles.  The only reason I mention singles so much is because I think they are a real gauge of where an artist is at.  Its getting more and more rare for artists (and I use that term loosely in hip hop nowadays) to take any real risks, especially when it comes to releasing singles.  It's become formulaic, pandering, and exploiting.  Most of them aren't exciting anymore.  It used to be that the single was one of the best songs on the album, now its on some watered down, digestable, pander to the ignorant masses bullshit.  And when that becomes acceptable it ultimately hurts hip hop's credibility.

Well, you make a good argument, but as long as Nas have some of those watered down digestable pander to the masses "could sell the album platinum if chosen as a single" tracks on the album (e.g. Braveheart Party, Hey Nas, that Braveheart or Kelis shit, etc.), then they're equal, imo.. though Jay got more of them than Nas.
Maybe Nas would go multi-plat each time with the right singles, and Jay barely making platinum by releasing a raw hiphop cut as single..
I fail to see how Nas can have a better ear for beats than Jay, with Blueprint & Black Albums being near flawless produced, God Son being very random, and Street Disciple pretty damn horrible produced..

Quote
While Jay def did help Kanye get his name out, he isn't responsible for his success.  Kanye was ghost producing all the way back for Ma$e and Harlem World in '97.  D-Dot put him on, and as everybody knows he had multiple offers on the table.  Through The Wire was when Kanye launched into being a top tier artist.  That song blew up because it was incredible, not cuz of his affiliation with Jay.  Don't forget that the Roc had no immediate plans to release his album.  So he paid for that video OUT OF POCKET.  When it blew the fuck up, it forced the Roc's hand into releasing his album.  So yeah, Jay was working with him prior to his superstardom, but he wasn't responsible for it.

Kanye's rap career came out of the blue, but if it wasn't for Jay letting him do production on Blueprint and become a household name by skyrocketing his name, it's very likely that Kanye's rap career wouldn't even get started... Blueprint paved the way for Kanye to start his own shit, thanks to Jay taking the chance on him.
I remember that ROC posse cut (+ Twista) with Dame Dash shouting "Oh shit, it's the producer of the ROC, and he can even rap better than most rappers!" as one of the first places I heard Kanye rap.. it's not because of Mase & Harlem World he got on there and start to rap, that's for sure, Jay gave Kanye a foundation as good as 50 & Dre gave Game, though of course Kanye did his own thing to blow, he got a lot to thank Jay for.
 
Quote
And while you say Nas' beat selections look random and accidental, I'd say he's being creative and experimental (which is the essence of artistry in any genre of expression).  And no doubt, when you are experimental, you will inevitably do some things that come out wack.  But I'd take type of wackness over predicatable, watered down music wackness anyday.

Yah, save that shit for the leftover tapes.


 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2006, 07:32:06 PM »
Well, you make a good argument, but as long as Nas have some of those watered down digestable pander to the masses "could sell the album platinum if chosen as a single" tracks on the album (e.g. Braveheart Party, Hey Nas, that Braveheart or Kelis shit, etc.), then they're equal, imo.. though Jay got more of them than Nas.
Maybe Nas would go multi-plat each time with the right singles, and Jay barely making platinum by releasing a raw hiphop cut as single..

The difference in Braveheart Party and Hey Nas vs. Change Clothes and Me and My Girfriend is that Nas didn't put those tracks out as singles.  Don't get me wrong, I fuckin hate Braveheart Party but it's not like Nas made that bullshit and put it out as a single to whore himself for some more sales.  In fact, it was even removed from the later pressings of the album.  Jay did put out those songs as singles and makes no bones about it: "I dumb down my lyrics to double my dollars".

It's like the Neptunes appearing on Scarface's album (The Fix).  The wasn't a collab that I was really looking forward to.  Not cuz I don't think they're talented, but cuz EVERYBODY was releasing a single produced by the Neptunes at that time.   But the song came off nice, and Face didn't even release it as a single.  Who else would get beats from the Neptunes and not use that bitch as a single?  Face gets props for not going the same route as everybody else.  It makes you think "Maybe he got down with the Neptunes cuz he thinks they're good musicians, not just cuz Neptunes single = $$$$$.

I fail to see how Nas can have a better ear for beats than Jay, with Blueprint & Black Albums being near flawless produced, God Son being very random, and Street Disciple pretty damn horrible produced..

Dog, Black Album is nowhere near flawlessly produced.  That had some of the wackest beats for being big name producers in a while:  Eminem, Quik, Kanye, 9th Wonder, Neptunes and Timbo all dropped sub par production.  Just cuz they are big name doesn't mean their beats are dope.  Em & Quik were VERY boring, Kanye's sounded like they were thrown together quickly, 9th was at least average (but not great), Tim's was generic, and Neptunes were straight CORNY.  Luckily he got some good shit from Just Blaze, a classic from Rick Rubin, and another classic from Aqua & 3H (My 1st song).  So he may have had quality producers, the actual beats were subpar overall.

And I'm pretty amazed that anybody would say Street's Disciple was horribly produced.  I think it was an incredible album - most young cats don't feel it, but that's cause Nas made an honest album that wasn't intended for simple ears.  Anyway, I loved the production.  You're telling me that the production on these songs wasn't dope? 


02. A Message To The Feds, Sincerely, We The People 
03. Nazareth Savage
04. American Way
06. Disciple
07. Sekou Story
09. Rest Of My Life
10. Just A Moment 
11. Reason 
12. You Know My Style


Disc 2
02. Street's Disciple
04. U.b.r. (unauthorized Biography Of Rakim)
05. Virgo 
07. Remember The Times
09. Getting Married
11. Bridging The Gap
12. War
13. Me & You
14. Thief's Theme (explicit Album Version)

To me, those are all great productions, even some true classics.  The only production i didn't like were Suicide Bounce, Makings of a Perfect Bitch, and No One Else in the Room.  3 wack tracks out of 26?  Jay wishes he could do that (Why do you think he signed him).

Kanye's rap career came out of the blue, but if it wasn't for Jay letting him do production on Blueprint and become a household name by skyrocketing his name, it's very likely that Kanye's rap career wouldn't even get started... Blueprint paved the way for Kanye to start his own shit, thanks to Jay taking the chance on him.

Jay was not the 1st person to take a chance on him.

Kanye did not come out of the blue dog, and Jay didn't birth that career either.  He was producing shit that was dropping on Bad Boy YEARS before in 97 (when BadBoy was on TOP).  How many tracks did Kanye RAP on on the Blueprint?  NONE.  Jay wasn't featuring him on tracks.  Hell, Kanye didn't even get credit for his hook on Scarface's album.  Kanye blowing up as an artist was due to his putting out Through The Wire under his own accord.  Rocafella had NO plans of releasing his album at that time.  Kanye's major artist debut was his own doing - the ROC couldn't ignore the buzz he created for himself as that song blew the fuck up.  The Roc HAD to release the album.
 
I remember that ROC posse cut (+ Twista) with Dame Dash shouting "Oh shit, it's the producer of the ROC, and he can even rap better than most rappers!" as one of the first places I heard Kanye rap.. it's not because of Mase & Harlem World he got on there and start to rap, that's for sure, Jay gave Kanye a foundation as good as 50 & Dre gave Game, though of course Kanye did his own thing to blow, he got a lot to thank Jay for.

If we were talking about Just Blaze, you wouldn't hear an arguement from me.  Fact is, Kanye was already in the game appearing on MAJOR releases YEARS prior to the Roc.  His intro as an artist was his doint, no one elses.

Yah, save that shit for the leftover tapes.

You mean like "The Lost Tapes"?? Funny how that is better than half of Jay's catalog.




« Last Edit: May 24, 2006, 07:33:55 PM by Jrome The Marauder »
 

Jome

Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2006, 08:29:50 PM »
^^ Too tired to reply to all of that, but I will say that that is some serious overrating of Streets Disciple, and Suicide Bounce was one of the better tracks, imo.
Make a poll, "Which album had better production, Black Album or Streets Disciple?", I think we both know the winner, but hey.. each to his own.

 

WestCoasta

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2006, 08:35:39 PM »
Jrome The Nigga = best poster
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2006, 08:48:35 PM »
^^ Too tired to reply to all of that, but I will say that that is some serious overrating of Streets Disciple, and Suicide Bounce was one of the better tracks, imo.
Make a poll, "Which album had better production, Black Album or Streets Disciple?", I think we both know the winner, but hey.. each to his own.

COPOUT.  And you keep throwing out statements but you never back them up.  My post may have been long but at least I justify what I'm saying.  And a poll wouldn't validate the arguement anymore than album sales would, and its no secret that Jay has sold more albums than Nas.  Just cuz something's popular doesn't qualify it's legitimacy. 

« Last Edit: May 24, 2006, 08:52:56 PM by Jrome The Marauder »
 

Jome

Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2006, 08:58:28 PM »
^^ No copout, just too fucking tired to reply to that essay, and I have no reply to your overrating of Nas albums, I'll let that slide as opinions.

A poll would validate the beats on BA being superior to SD, nothing less, even though it's probably 3 times more Nas fans on Dubcc than Jay fans, I assume that most would have the vision to see that Nas has been choosing some very random beats in the recent years, in a declining curve.
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas Drops New LP In September, Declares Hip-Hop Dead
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2006, 09:03:17 PM »
^^ No copout, just too fucking tired to reply to that essay, and I have no reply to your overrating of Nas albums, I'll let that slide as opinions.

A poll would validate the beats on BA being superior to SD, nothing less, even though it's probably 3 times more Nas fans on Dubcc than Jay fans, I assume that most would have the vision to see that Nas has been choosing some very random beats in the recent years, in a declining curve.


If you feel a poll will validate you, by all means make one.  I'm saying I have no need to, it won't tell me anything.  Just know that its the quality of the critique, not the quantity of critics.