Black people need to stop having so many kids out of wedlock.....

[Kassem]

start debating wat are the measures or actions that should be done by the black community and the general goverment

[Eihtball]

start debating wat are the measures or actions that should be done by the black community and the general goverment

That can't be done until conservatives stop accusing us of being lazy.  I will not cooperate with anyone who denies the existence of the struggle...I can only consider them an enemy, exactly what they consider me.

[Real American]

Eightball, instead of resorting to personal attacks, let's just debate the issue.

You know as well as I do that you invite them.

And I expect you to respond by asking me why.

Why?

[Real American]

That can't be done until conservatives stop accusing us of being lazy.  I will not cooperate with anyone who denies the existence of the struggle...I can only consider them an enemy, exactly what they consider me.

Eightball, stop blaming white people. This issue has nothing to do with white people or conservatives. It has to do solely with individuals and their actions. Having children out of wedlock is not good for society as a whole. Somewhere along the line it became acceptable and what we are seeing is the breakdown of familiies and severe reprecussions following.

[Eihtball]

Why?

Because you attack entire groups of people.  And then you act innocent and wonder why your karma is almost -250.

Eightball, stop blaming white people. This issue has nothing to do with white people or conservatives. It has to do solely with individuals and their actions. Having children out of wedlock is not good for society as a whole. Somewhere along the line it became acceptable and what we are seeing is the breakdown of familiies and severe reprecussions following.

CWalker, stop blaming black people.  This issue has nothing to do with black people or liberals.  It has to do solely with individuals and their actions...but we must understand the conditions that make such actions "acceptable", as you call it.

[Real American]

What conditions are you talking about??

Also, don't forget that 50 years ago, when racism truly was a serious problem in America, that illegitimacy rates were low across the board for all races. Sometime around the 1960's, the illegitimacy rates began to climb for all races, but epecially for black people. So don't tell me that is it white people's fault, when it has been only a recent phenomenon. Actually as society has become less racist, the illegitimacy rates have actally climbed and they have detsroyed the black family unit in America.

[Eihtball]

What conditions are you talking about??

Also, don't forget that 50 years ago, when racism truly was a serious problem in America, that illegitimacy rates were low across the board for all races. Sometime around the 1960's, the illegitimacy rates began to climb for all races, but epecially for black people. So don't tell me that is it white people's fault, when it has been only a recent phenomenon. Actually as society has become less racist, the illegitimacy rates have actally climbed and they have detsroyed the black family unit in America.

Are you familiar with the migration of whites to suburbs (which were off-limits to blacks at that time), and the construction of housing projects for blacks?  It actually happened right around the 1950s - the time of the "nuclear family" - when you claim this trend began.  Then there were the mass lay-offs in L.A. (which began in the 1970s with the closing of many industrial plants) to take into consideration.  It's a widely observed trend that gang activity increased at about the same time.

As far as America being "less racist", there may not be any active discrimination, but the existence of attitudes such as yours proves that we haven't moved far enough forward...yet.

[Shallow]

What conditions are you talking about??

Also, don't forget that 50 years ago, when racism truly was a serious problem in America, that illegitimacy rates were low across the board for all races. Sometime around the 1960's, the illegitimacy rates began to climb for all races, but epecially for black people. So don't tell me that is it white people's fault, when it has been only a recent phenomenon. Actually as society has become less racist, the illegitimacy rates have actally climbed and they have detsroyed the black family unit in America.

Are you familiar with the migration of whites to suburbs (which were off-limits to blacks at that time), and the construction of housing projects for blacks?  It actually happened right around the 1950s - the time of the "nuclear family" - when you claim this trend began.  Then there were the mass lay-offs in L.A. (which began in the 1970s with the closing of many industrial plants) to take into consideration.  It's a widely observed trend that gang activity increased at about the same time.

As far as America being "less racist", there may not be any active discrimination, but the existence of attitudes such as yours proves that we haven't moved far enough forward...yet.

It's got to be more than that. I think it has to stem from a change of mentality (if the numbers are correct and it really is 70%). Blacks lived like kings in the 60s when compared to what was going on in the south right after they were "freed" by Abe Lincoln and company, and if they could make due back then and stay with their families and can't now (assuming that the stats do say that, I wouldn't know), then it simply cannot stem from being oppressed in the 60s and 70s and probably has more to do with the Kill Whitey mentality that came about in those times. Before the 60s you were oppressed asa black to the point that you knew you could never do anything about it. The 60s started the mindset of no longer taking shit from the whites and not doing as you are told the white man tells you how you should live. It's like if you get on the bus as a black man and short change the driver and he calls you on it and won't let you on (I've seen this many times with my own eyes) insteda of admitted you got caught cheating it's like they just see another white devil being racist and when you think racism you have this nobel feeling to fight it even if it isn't there and that leads to a lot of problems for a lot of young black males I know. Out of the dozens of personal black friends I have I can tell you that almost all of the ones that would challenge the bus driver in that situation (meaning have that type of mentality) are in far lower place in society then the ones that would not challenge the driver (of course those types wouldn't try and cheat their way on the bus either), and it all seems to sten with how they were taught to challenge authority. They grew up with mothers who would defend every bad action they do (almost all of the ones that end up with that mentality) and it's usually because these mothers were teens when they had the children, and who impregnated them? Teenage boys that came from those kind of households. It'sa real chicken and egg scenario.

I for one am all for getting every male a vasectomy at puberty and only allow to have it reversed upon request. Not just black males. Every male in the country. The population would drop drastically and children would only be raised by parents who chose to have them.

[africas seed]

education is key to solve an issue like this but this problem isnt only centred around one race. All races have kids out of wedlock. Like I said we need to educate others about the cause and effects of poverty and other issues that r plaguing our world. It's like HIV/aids in South africa. ppl r always like y dont they just use a fucking condom or just dont have sex. well a majority of ppl dont know that condoms can help or that u can even contract HIV/aids from sex or that HIV/aids even exists. this as well as many other issues may affect a certain type of ppl but it will take the help of everyone to resolve these problems.

[Suga Foot]

Maybe the problem doesn't lie within the black community, but within American culture?  Instead of just blaming the community, why not try to understand why this happens, and what can be done to help fix the problem.

Less and less people get married nowadays anyway.  Just because the kid is born out of wedlock, doesn't mean the Dad isn't around to help raise him.  I know lots of people who have kids and aren't married, that doesn't mean they are bad people.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Props to everyone (espically Eihtball) who posted some valid arguements. This is actually a good discussion. I'll even prop CWalker for not posting some hateful shit only to run away or post even more ignorant shit (although he probably was intending to).
Personaly I look at it this way. First it was slavery, then it was segregation, then it was racism, then it was politics (it was always racism and politics just as it is now, just not this sophisticated). Now as a race, Black people's mentality is being destroyed by what there being portrayed as/expected to be. But the reasons are running thin. If we as Black people want better we just have to except it and move on. Role with the punches. It doesn't help that the reasons I stated are used as an excuse for everything by the most ignorant of Black men and being passed on to others.

[Shallow]

Maybe the problem doesn't lie within the black community, but within American culture?  Instead of just blaming the community, why not try to understand why this happens, and what can be done to help fix the problem.

Less and less people get married nowadays anyway.  Just because the kid is born out of wedlock, doesn't mean the Dad isn't around to help raise him.  I know lots of people who have kids and aren't married, that doesn't mean they are bad people.

Excellent point. In fact white out of wedlock births have doubled and are now at a higher rate than black out of wedlock births were in the 60s when LBJ got the memo. One theory states it has a lot to do with the technology shock of the 70s that allowed single people to have easy access to abortion and birth control and this lead to the massive decline of the shotgun marriage. I think a lot also has to do with the feminist movement that made women think they didn't need a man. Whatever it is it has a lot to do with liberal minded thinking not thinking hard enough as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, here is the article from the mid 90s;

http://www.brook.edu/comm/policybriefs/pb05.htm


and here is a link to an audio clip of the memo;

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4865449

[J Bananas]

props on the audio

[Sikotic™]

You know what CWalker, I don't say this very often (but for some reason more so lately), but I agree with you 100%. These women have having babies when they're not financially and mentally mature enough to take care of one, so the kid ends up getting with the wrong crowd and get caught up in crime. It's ridiculous. These guys are born without a father figure to teach them how to be "real" men and support your children, but as soon as they screw up, they do like their daddy did and run away. It's a vicious cycle and its sickening. Sometimes I think people treat children like a toy or a pet instead of what it really is, a person.

[J Bananas]

alotta these 18-25 year old girls realize that when their pussy power is fading their fucked in the world cuz theyre dumb and thats all theyve ever been. shitting out a kid is good insurance so you can convince people you're not worthless, its easier than getting a job

or as pimp c put it "wicked women usin' children to live on"