Busta Rhymes Is Probably In Debt To Aftermath/Interscope Right About Now

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

I thought Rakim left because of creative differences between him and dre??

The creative difference was Dre wanted Rakim to be ignorant because Dre knows you'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of Americans.  While Rakim is a broadly intelligent rapper and he drops knowledge in his rhymes and Dre couldn't go for that cause he knew it wouldn't sell.

So bottom line, Dre didn't think Rakim would sell.

[Trauma-san]

Busta doesn't pay that money back.  The label invested in Busta's album, if it doesn't make money, it's the labels fault, not Bustas.

Uh... you'd THINK that's how it would be, but unfortunately you'd be wrong.  The label likely advanced Busta a ton of money like Infinite said, and if it doesn't do enough for him to be paid back, then Busta will end up owing them money.

Ask Courtney Love, she'll explain the whole thing for you.  This is another reason everybody always wants to go Independent

[WestCoasta]

pretty much to be on Aftermath, you have to be an industry tool and please Interscope

not saying some good music doesn't come out of it, but ya know...

too many politics, politics fucked music

[Trauma-san]

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Dre also bombed with "The Wash".  Jimmy let Dre do whatever he wanted, and Dre did "The Wash" which was a little pet project with his buddy Snoop, and it bombed, and Dre did "Truth Hurts" because he loves R&B, it bombed too, and now Jimmy Iovine (again) calls all the shots about who gets released and what song gets released, and what order the songs are in and all of that shit.  Jimmy Iovine runs Interscope, Dre is behind creativity but has nothing to do with the business side of things which includes keeping and terminating artists.  

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Dre also bombed with "The Wash".  Jimmy let Dre do whatever he wanted, and Dre did "The Wash" which was a little pet project with his buddy Snoop, and it bombed, and Dre did "Truth Hurts" because he loves R&B, it bombed too, and now Jimmy Iovine (again) calls all the shots about who gets released and what song gets released, and what order the songs are in and all of that shit.  Jimmy Iovine runs Interscope, Dre is behind creativity but has nothing to do with the business side of things which includes keeping and terminating artists.  

possibly, but do you really picture Dre arguing with Jimmy over releasing Rakim, Hittman, Truth Hurtz, or King Tee?   I think Jimmy can dictate some of the creative control, but I don't think Dre has that much opposition to what Jimmy does.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Uh... you'd THINK that's how it would be, but unfortunately you'd be wrong.  The label likely advanced Busta a ton of money like Infinite said, and if it doesn't do enough for him to be paid back, then Busta will end up owing them money.

Ask Courtney Love, she'll explain the whole thing for you.  This is another reason everybody always wants to go Independent

^^Co-sign, props.

That's the point I was making.  "The Big Bang" was a big budget album.  I think they expected to do way better numbers then they are doing, and Busta will pay the price financially because the budget ultimately has to be paid off by record sales or it becomes a debt for the artist. 

Maybe Busta already has enough money from previous albums, and shows, but it's possible he may have even owed his last label some money, considering he had some big budget flops over there as well.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

anothe rimportant fact is, the album has 5 dre beats, dre is an in house producer of his own label... i highly doubt dre charged busta 250 k each beat....

True. In the end I don't think Busta will lose that much money of the album.

[J Bananas]

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Dre also bombed with "The Wash".  Jimmy let Dre do whatever he wanted, and Dre did "The Wash" which was a little pet project with his buddy Snoop, and it bombed, and Dre did "Truth Hurts" because he loves R&B, it bombed too, and now Jimmy Iovine (again) calls all the shots about who gets released and what song gets released, and what order the songs are in and all of that shit.  Jimmy Iovine runs Interscope, Dre is behind creativity but has nothing to do with the business side of things which includes keeping and terminating artists. 

possibly, but do you really picture Dre arguing with Jimmy over releasing Rakim, Hittman, Truth Hurtz, or King Tee?   I think Jimmy can dictate some of the creative control, but I don't think Dre has that much opposition to what Jimmy does.

you never answered my question bryan.

[King Tech Quadafi]

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Dre also bombed with "The Wash".  Jimmy let Dre do whatever he wanted, and Dre did "The Wash" which was a little pet project with his buddy Snoop, and it bombed, and Dre did "Truth Hurts" because he loves R&B, it bombed too, and now Jimmy Iovine (again) calls all the shots about who gets released and what song gets released, and what order the songs are in and all of that shit.  Jimmy Iovine runs Interscope, Dre is behind creativity but has nothing to do with the business side of things which includes keeping and terminating artists. 

possibly, but do you really picture Dre arguing with Jimmy over releasing Rakim, Hittman, Truth Hurtz, or King Tee?   I think Jimmy can dictate some of the creative control, but I don't think Dre has that much opposition to what Jimmy does.

you never answered my question bryan.

because ur question was stupid

[Trauma-san]

No, Dre didn't charge busta 250 grand each for the beats.  He just charged busta 5 points per beat or some shit, and now he gets 25 percent of the publishing royalties for his hefty contribution to the album.  After all, he's Dr. Dre.  Plus, he mixed the album.  You think he did that for free?  Plus, exec produced the album, you think he did *THAT* for free?  Think about all the people that have their hands in the album, then do a little math.  The album's sold 300 k.
Lets say that the average price for the CD is 13 bucks.  Some places it'll be more, but all the big chains that sell tons of them, it'll be less.  That's a little under 4 million dollars, RETAIL, that the album's made.  Then lets figure out how much of that is profit for the locations selling the album.  At least 10%, right? at LEAST, probably much, much higher.

So now we're down to like 3.5.  How much does the distributor get for their work transporting and networking the album? 

How much was spent on promotion?

How much was spent on videos?

How much was spent on in store pop materials?

How much is left for Jimmy Iovine, Interscope, Dre, Busta, and every musician who recorded on the album to split? 

Record company is probably nowhere near even on this, and they've advanced Busta money.  He probably hasn't received 1 cent since then...

Why do you think these guys are always bitching about their record labels and their record deals?  ... because they sign these big contracts with huge advances, then they get bitter when they realize they've already been paid, and they have to work their ass off for the next year or two just to get even on what they've spent on cars and gold watches already.

Why is it, do you think, that guys like Snoop will bust their ass going out and touring all over the fucking place, but won't put an album out but every few years?  It's because they make a fortune touring, they can show up and get paid 20 grand for 1 nights work at a large venue, or they can work 2 years on an album and get paid 300 grand.  They'd much rather tour. 

Here's what I was talking about, Courtney Love is the lead singer of Hole, wife of Kurt Cobain from Nirvana.  She's very intelligent, here's a transcript of a speech she gave a few years ago about why she was leaving a major and going independent. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Courtney Love:

Today I want to talk about piracy and music. What is piracy? Piracy is the act of stealing an artist's work without any intention of paying for it. I'm not talking about Napster-type software.

I'm talking about major label recording contracts.

I want to start with a story about rock bands and record companies, and do some recording-contract math:

This story is about a bidding-war band that gets a huge deal with a 20 percent royalty rate and a million-dollar advance. (No bidding-war band ever got a 20 percent royalty, but whatever.) This is my "funny" math based on some reality and I just want to qualify it by saying I'm positive it's better math than what Edgar Bronfman Jr. [the president and CEO of Seagram, which owns Polygram] would provide.

What happens to that million dollars?

They spend half a million to record their album. That leaves the band with $500,000. They pay $100,000 to their manager for 20 percent commission. They pay $25,000 each to their lawyer and business manager.

That leaves $350,000 for the four band members to split. After $170,000 in taxes, there's $180,000 left. That comes out to $45,000 per person.

That's $45,000 to live on for a year until the record gets released.

The record is a big hit and sells a million copies. (How a bidding-war band sells a million copies of its debut record is another rant entirely, but it's based on any basic civics-class knowledge that any of us have about cartels. Put simply, the antitrust laws in this country are basically a joke, protecting us just enough to not have to re-name our park service the Phillip Morris National Park Service.)

So, this band releases two singles and makes two videos. The two videos cost a million dollars to make and 50 percent of the video production costs are recouped out of the band's royalties.

The band gets $200,000 in tour support, which is 100 percent recoupable.

The record company spends $300,000 on independent radio promotion. You have to pay independent promotion to get your song on the radio; independent promotion is a system where the record companies use middlemen so they can pretend not to know that radio stations -- the unified broadcast system -- are getting paid to play their records.

All of those independent promotion costs are charged to the band.

Since the original million-dollar advance is also recoupable, the band owes $2 million to the record company.

If all of the million records are sold at full price with no discounts or record clubs, the band earns $2 million in royalties, since their 20 percent royalty works out to $2 a record.

Two million dollars in royalties minus $2 million in recoupable expenses equals ... zero!

How much does the record company make?

They grossed $11 million.

It costs $500,000 to manufacture the CDs and they advanced the band $1 million. Plus there were $1 million in video costs, $300,000 in radio promotion and $200,000 in tour support.

The company also paid $750,000 in music publishing royalties.

They spent $2.2 million on marketing. That's mostly retail advertising, but marketing also pays for those huge posters of Marilyn Manson in Times Square and the street scouts who drive around in vans handing out black Korn T-shirts and backwards baseball caps. Not to mention trips to Scores and cash for tips for all and sundry.

Add it up and the record company has spent about $4.4 million.

So their profit is $6.6 million; the band may as well be working at a 7-Eleven.


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That's the real deal from a woman who doesn't give a shit what anybody thinks about her and wouldn't lie about something as pedantic as money to save her life.  Someone with intimate knowledge of Hole's record deals, and someone who's part owner of Nirvana's entire record catalogue and sole administrator of the estate of Kurt Cobain.  She fully understands the recording business and I believe every word she just said.  If you know how this stuff works, you can see why certain rappers act the way that they do. 

Also keep in mind that many rappers and rock stars live off of credit.  If you just received a 300 thousand dollar royalty, you can go down to the bank and take a loan out for a house worth 3 million dollars.  You see these guys riding high but nothing's paid for, and they owe their entire existance to the record label. 

[GangstaBoogy]

Busta doesn't pay that money back.  The label invested in Busta's album, if it doesn't make money, it's the labels fault, not Bustas.

lol you really believe that? don't ever try to sign to a major label, they'd take you for every $ you have.

[mauzip]

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Dre also bombed with "The Wash".  Jimmy let Dre do whatever he wanted, and Dre did "The Wash" which was a little pet project with his buddy Snoop, and it bombed, and Dre did "Truth Hurts" because he loves R&B, it bombed too, and now Jimmy Iovine (again) calls all the shots about who gets released and what song gets released, and what order the songs are in and all of that shit.  Jimmy Iovine runs Interscope, Dre is behind creativity but has nothing to do with the business side of things which includes keeping and terminating artists. 

possibly, but do you really picture Dre arguing with Jimmy over releasing Rakim, Hittman, Truth Hurtz, or King Tee?   I think Jimmy can dictate some of the creative control, but I don't think Dre has that much opposition to what Jimmy does.

you never answered my question bryan.

because ur question was stupid

The question was relevant and made perfect sense.

[ABN]

if y´all don´t think Busta´s indebt then remember that Kanye West said that he had to sell 2.5 million albums just to break even and he recorded Late Registration in less then a year. and Busta recorded his shit for close to 4 years.

[notorious^q8I]

kanye's situation is different he has a very expensive musician who co produced the album with him

busta's album production wasnt that expensive in my opinion.. u dont have a just blaze, u dont have a kanye beat
no scott storch beats..... who u got?
sha money?
i doubt he charged him much

i do agree its an expensive album... but the debt thing is debatable, even if he was teh album will pay it off..... he makes enough money from shows

[ABN]

Busta said that he recorded like 200 songs over 4 years and just the studio time alone for that many hours is worth a lot more then 1 million. and then he gotta pay for the promotion coz labels don´t pay for that, then he gotta pay for the videos etc etc. if you´re on a major you don´t make no real money yet you oay for everything until you´ve recouped.