I Want To Start A Discussion On The Issue Of Low Record Sales This Year...

[Trauma-san]

only new albums i bought last year are trauma and in the midnite hour

And I thank you for it, it gives me the money to afford this internet connection.  True fans like you are what make this music thing possible, thank you again. 

[Shallow]

Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway. Not sure what it's like in the major US record stores but all the HMVs (the big music chain here) in Toronto used to have quality guarantees. If you didn't like the album you could return it for a full refund (I abused the shit out of that when I got a burner before they were popular). Since the burners became common HMV has retracted that policy. The point is you could return the album if you didn't like it, just like most people probably delete it after they download it, if it sucks.

Back in the early to mid 90s when a new album came out only a few people in the projects by my house would actually buy an album. They would then pass the tape around and everyone would end up dubbing. We didn't have great sound systems and the tape was inferior sound anyway so the difference in quality wasn't all that noticeable. Even with out downloading it would just get passed around and burned as a CD. Sometimes 5 or 6 of us would pitch in and buy the album then split it. Music sharing is nothing new. In fact when the tape was introduce the industry worried sales would plummet, well thanks to Reagan and the Yuppies sales hit an all time high in mid to late 80s when this cassette was supposed to hurt sales. They did the same shit with the CD burner and artists still broke records like Shania did with Come on Over for a female solo act and 36 million records sold or Alanis just a couple years before that did with 34 million worldwide. Mariah, Whitney, Boyz 2 Men all had huge selling albums. Snoop went like 6 platinum off mainly tapes, and I know that album was dubbed to death and burned to death. If the album is good and has more than just the singles to carry it people will buy it.

Radiohead's Kid A was one of the highest downloaded albums on Napster a month before it came out. The record company almost pulled it because they thought it would fail miserably. Radiohead was at best a mildly successful and never broke the top 20 on the charts (OK Computer went 2x platinum but it had taken years to get there). Kid A was released and debuted at #1 with no big MTV or radio play but it had all the downloader (over 1 million downloads) hyped up because most loved the album. Most bought and it went platinum in a few short months. If it went Gold (even before the Napster ordeal) it would have been considered a big success. Platinum was higher than any could imagine, and they owe it all to downloading.

The current Hip Hop sucks, and is boring, and the US economy is down. That's why the sales suck. If the economy was booming right away you'd see an increase and if the music was fresh you'd see and even bigger increase. Most of the people that download and don't buy probably wouldn't buy anyway. They'd find someone to borrow the album from and if they loved it they'd probably buy it and if they hated it they wouldn't. Simple as that. These cry baby artists need to shut their mouths and make good music.

[WestCoasta]

I still buy music, not EVERYTHING, but I still buy a lot of cd's


I probably bought like 20 cd's so far this year, some new releases too


but still I download a ton of shit.... but like J Bananas said, if they would fill up an album with all bangers, I'd spend the money


I just select wisely, buy the cd's I know I want

[mauzip]

A couple of months ago I realized how much money I spent on music I never even really paid attention to. I've sold a bunch of albums because they were only collecting dust. Right now I'm at a point that I only buy an album if it doesn't have 7 tracks that could have been left off, if you know what I mean. If it fits in my collection that's fine too.

If Busta's album wouldn't have tracks like the ones with Will.I.Am and Missy Elliot, I would have bought it. It has 6-7 tracks that I don't like and a couple of joints that I fucking love, but those 6-7 tracks are too much! Fuck buying an album if that means I have to support bullshit like I Love My Bitch.

The last new album I bought was either Mack 10's latest album or Warren G's latest album and the next new album I'm gonna buy is Rhymefest's. Why? Because they're good albums. Mack 10's album has one song I don't like, Warren G's 2 songs and Rhymefest's 0.

Bottom line:

These cry baby artists need to shut their mouths and make good music.

[M Dogg™]

Nelly, Eminem, Jay-Z and plenty of other artist have all seen their sales stay the same during the downloading era. The reason album sales are down is because the industry has taken Hip-Hop, and gutted it for the commercial appeal. People are eventually going to get sick of it, which I think is happening, and they are going to stop buying. Busta is just a sad side effect. I have yet to buy the album myself, though I will very soon. For me, it's money. Need more money.

[Shallow]

Nelly, Eminem, Jay-Z and plenty of other artist have all seen their sales stay the same during the downloading era. The reason album sales are down is because the industry has taken Hip-Hop, and gutted it for the commercial appeal. People are eventually going to get sick of it, which I think is happening, and they are going to stop buying. Busta is just a sad side effect. I have yet to buy the album myself, though I will very soon. For me, it's money. Need more money.

Hip Hop was going to die out as the number 1 genre of popular music in America no matter how good it was quality wise. The new generation never wants to listen to the same stuff the the old one did. The children of hair metal became the teens of Grunge, and the children of Grunge became the teens of boy/girl band bubble gum. N Synch is clearly inferior to Pearl Jam musically but the teen girls that bought "Ten" had little sisters that grew up to buy "No Strings Attached".

I can't wait for Hip Hop to fall from the main stream. It'll mean that industry snakes will leave it alone and rappers won't be pressured to fit the mold, and they'll start making creative music again, hopefully.

[M Dogg™]

Nelly, Eminem, Jay-Z and plenty of other artist have all seen their sales stay the same during the downloading era. The reason album sales are down is because the industry has taken Hip-Hop, and gutted it for the commercial appeal. People are eventually going to get sick of it, which I think is happening, and they are going to stop buying. Busta is just a sad side effect. I have yet to buy the album myself, though I will very soon. For me, it's money. Need more money.

Hip Hop was going to die out as the number 1 genre of popular music in America no matter how good it was quality wise. The new generation never wants to listen to the same stuff the the old one did. The children of hair metal became the teens of Grunge, and the children of Grunge became the teens of boy/girl band bubble gum. N Synch is clearly inferior to Pearl Jam musically but the teen girls that bought "Ten" had little sisters that grew up to buy "No Strings Attached".

I can't wait for Hip Hop to fall from the main stream. It'll mean that industry snakes will leave it alone and rappers won't be pressured to fit the mold, and they'll start making creative music again, hopefully.

actually, that's a very bad thing. Hip-Hop needs balence, even KRS admits that. There needs to be the party aspect of it, and there needs to be the commercial side of it. What was Run DMC, what was Sugar Hill Gang, Kurtis Blow, sure there was Melle Mel, but Caz was the one that wrote Rappers Delight talking about Superman and shit. Hip-Hop was commerical in the early 90's, and it was just as creative. What you want is Hip-Hop to become underground, that's not good, as every single Hip-Hop founder will tell you they want to see Hip-Hop in the mainstream. The difference is we need labels that are independent once again. The mergers on the late 90's hurt everything, but if artist can sell using pure Hip-Hop, then that's better. Columbia left Nas alone after Stillmatic, because they knew he'd sell no matter what. Interscope let Jada have his Kiss of Death because they knew political controversy will see during an election year. The only problem is, not many artist are willing to take a chance. Hip-Hop needs balence, ask any old school Hip-Hop founder.

[Trauma-san]

Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.

... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it.  So, blaming downloading is bullshit.  riiiiight. 


Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I?  I can just download it.  I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years.  I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off.  I'll download plenty, though. 

Now.  I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now.  Can you STILL deny that it's a problem?  I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do.  If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are. 

Here, how many ways can I say this.  Lets see.

1.  I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4.  Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5.  I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it".  I was really close that time, too.

Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales".  come on man.  Man up.  Take responsibility.  Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against. 

[jeromechickenbone]

I think lots of you guys are on point.  To me, the bottom line is that for numerous reasons the creativity, artistry, and individualism are much more difficult to find, ESPECIALLY in the mainstream.  The majority of shit they pass off as music today seems far too contrived and manufactured. 

People thinking that the only way to sell a record is to hype and promote the shit out of it.  They cram that bullshit down your throat with no alternative.  The media is an oligopoly simple and plain.  Assholes in suit and ties have gone overboard making music into an assembly line product, with the same fucking formula everytime. 

I'd estimate I have prolly around 600 CD's.  There were times in my life that as soon as I got paid, the first thing I did was go pick up a few cd's.  I did that pretty much every week for years - and it was mostly new shit coming out.  I've bought very few CD's on their release date in the last couple of years.  I'm now mostly going and copping albums from way back that I never had initally bought.

The positive thing is this though:  It's pretty much common knowledge that the recording industry as a whole has really taken some significant hits.  Lables are folding, prices are dropping, and people are losing their jobs.  Now normally this wouldn't be a good thing, but in this case, if things don't change the game will go down the drain.  This is good because it shows that the general public isn't as ignorant as these major labels think they are.  Hopefully more artists will go the independant route and release the music that they want, and not have to do bullshit that some exec is telling them to do.  It's like they say, going indie and pushing 100,000 is like going platinum on a major.  So let them keep putting out bullshit.  It's really starting to catch up with them, and if they don't switch it up it's gonna end up fucking them.

[jeromechickenbone]

Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.

... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it.  So, blaming downloading is bullshit.  riiiiight. 


Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I?  I can just download it.  I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years.  I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off.  I'll download plenty, though. 

Now.  I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now.  Can you STILL deny that it's a problem?  I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do.  If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are. 

Here, how many ways can I say this.  Lets see.

1.  I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4.  Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5.  I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it".  I was really close that time, too.

Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales".  come on man.  Man up.  Take responsibility.  Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against. 

I don't think there's any debate that downloading can and does impact album sales.  It impacts both positively and negatively.  The positive aspects, at least for me, is that I don't have to gamble on albums that i'm on the fence on.  I've been burned enough times over the years with impulse buys / or iffy albums that turned out to be a waste of money.  I think downloading will indirectly keep everyone honest.  Obviously, there are people that will only download, and never buy another album because they don't have to.

But I don't think it's the main driver in declining sales.  You yourself said you'd buy Detox...Why?  Why would you waste your money on Detox, when you can just download it?  You're gonna buy it because you're damn near assured it's gonna be a dope ass cd.  EVENTHOUGH you can get it for free, you'll drop your hard earned cash.  That factor right there should show you that quality is the biggest driver in your decision to not purchase, not the ability to get it for free.

[youngmessnucca]

Hip-hop lost it's edge, it's too safe now.

[ThA KiD]

i blame leaking albums out, because if we didnt hear it, the only way we would know if the cd was trash or not was to pick it up yourself, or borrow it from some one who picked it up, either way more than 30k people are buying it and 2 mil are dling it.

[Shallow]

Nelly, Eminem, Jay-Z and plenty of other artist have all seen their sales stay the same during the downloading era. The reason album sales are down is because the industry has taken Hip-Hop, and gutted it for the commercial appeal. People are eventually going to get sick of it, which I think is happening, and they are going to stop buying. Busta is just a sad side effect. I have yet to buy the album myself, though I will very soon. For me, it's money. Need more money.

Hip Hop was going to die out as the number 1 genre of popular music in America no matter how good it was quality wise. The new generation never wants to listen to the same stuff the the old one did. The children of hair metal became the teens of Grunge, and the children of Grunge became the teens of boy/girl band bubble gum. N Synch is clearly inferior to Pearl Jam musically but the teen girls that bought "Ten" had little sisters that grew up to buy "No Strings Attached".

I can't wait for Hip Hop to fall from the main stream. It'll mean that industry snakes will leave it alone and rappers won't be pressured to fit the mold, and they'll start making creative music again, hopefully.

actually, that's a very bad thing. Hip-Hop needs balence, even KRS admits that. There needs to be the party aspect of it, and there needs to be the commercial side of it. What was Run DMC, what was Sugar Hill Gang, Kurtis Blow, sure there was Melle Mel, but Caz was the one that wrote Rappers Delight talking about Superman and shit. Hip-Hop was commerical in the early 90's, and it was just as creative. What you want is Hip-Hop to become underground, that's not good, as every single Hip-Hop founder will tell you they want to see Hip-Hop in the mainstream. The difference is we need labels that are independent once again. The mergers on the late 90's hurt everything, but if artist can sell using pure Hip-Hop, then that's better. Columbia left Nas alone after Stillmatic, because they knew he'd sell no matter what. Interscope let Jada have his Kiss of Death because they knew political controversy will see during an election year. The only problem is, not many artist are willing to take a chance. Hip-Hop needs balence, ask any old school Hip-Hop founder.

I said it will fall from being the number 1 pop genre and hten the execs will lay off off and focus on the new form that arises. I never said it should all be underground, I said hopefully it would become creative. Rapper's Delight was new, fresh; creative. The shit today is just the same old shit that's just being rehashed. There is nthing wrong with a party song. The problem is that the genre is flooded with the same type of party songs released because execs want to jump on the cash cow before it goes away. When Hip Hop dies in the mainstream and falls back to being just another genre with no executives pushing a certain style of it then the kids on streets who all aspire to be rappers now will not be forced to make a certain style and that freedom will result in better music, and different music. Diferent music that may very well lead to another stay at the top of the pop scene, and then it'll have to happen all over again.

And Trauma, you gave me 2 examples. You and Seer. I gave you reasearched information. Can you honestly say you would buy every album you download, or even most? (Of course you will just for arguments sake). Well I know that I have bought many albums I never would have bought because I heard them after I downloaded them and I liked them a lot. While you can say you like many others don't buy because you download in 2006. I could find you just as many who wouldn't buy but dub in 1996. I could also find you many people that bought an album because they loved it so much after playing it to death upon downloading. If people want the album they will buy it. At the height of the downloading "crisis" Eminem went 9 platinum twice in a row, 'N Sync went diamond twice in a row. Britney went 10 and 14 platinum in consecutive albums. Shaniah went diamoind on her follow up to her previous diamond album. Usher just went 9 platinum. And Outkast had their highest seller to date. I guess you and Seer didn't seem to hurt those sales.

If album prices were to drop to the $5 it cost in the 80s to buy then you'd see huge increases in sales. Thanks to Reagan's Administration while the minmum wage was $2 lower than it is now if you adujust for inflation it was actually a dollar higher. The $3.25 you were making in '83 as a miminum wage would be equivolent to about $6 today, so two hours of work could buy you an album and you'd have enough left over to buy a small lunch. Today you'd have to work 3 hours and no lunch, and that's just for miminum wage employees. If albums today were 7.99 the sales would drastically increase. Download or no download.

[Eihtball]

I agree with Shallow's reason first and foremost...whether or not we want to accept it, hip-hop is indeed losing SOME of its grasp upon the pop audience.  And that, I'm afraid, was pretty much inevitable.  Late last year, I even spoke of this possibility.  Think about it...the first year in which it was reported that hip-hop outsold all other genres (rock, country, etc.) was 1998 (which was, of course, the year when DMX and Jay-Z became superstars on the East while Master P was building his empire down South).  That means it's been 8 years already.  No genre remains totally dominant for more than a decade...hair metal and dance-pop dominated the 80s', the 90s' was dominated by the obsession with all things "alternative" (grunge like Nirvana, trad rock like DMB and Hootie & the Blowfish, etc.), and now the 1st decade of the 21st century has been dominated by hip-hop.  Surely, that was all due to change at some point?

You only need to look at the Billboard charts now, and (for those of you in college and high school) what your friends are listening to while you're still bumping your old Warren G or DPG albums.  What are kids listening to besides hip-hop these days?  Well, in the past 2 years or so, we've seen an obsession with artists that draw heavily from pop influences yet manage to convince everyone they're "indie", like Death Cab For Cutie and The Shins.  Emo-punk seems to have replaced grunge as the new "angry white teen music".  Reggaeton has gained a small but steadily growing following, even amongst hip-hop artists.  With that kind of competition, what did y'all THINK was going to happen?

As far as downloading goes, I think it's played a large part, for sure.  It's pretty obvious that most people download albums instead of buying them, and I'm among them.  On the other hand, I have trouble thinking that it's played as big a part as the RIAA claims it has.  I used to only buy about 3-4 albums a year (on CD) in the 90s before file-sharing started, and that's about the same number I buy today...in fact, downloading means I generally tend to be exposed to more stuff that I used to ignore.  I pretty much slept on the East Coast during the mid-90s (when Nas, Mobb Deep, and the Wu were coming out...I did sorta like Biggie, tho) because I didn't think I liked the East back then, but in comparison, I don't like the South much today, yet I'm still far more aware of who's hot in the South and I've heard lots of their shit because of dling.  I never bought Young Jeezy's album, but I did listen to it, and if dling didn't exist, I would have simply ignored it altogether.  Thinking that sales of hip-hop records will increase if dling were eliminated is most def not true.

[_That_Cracka_J]

Blaming downloading is bullshit in my opinion. Downloading only helps if the music is good, and if the music sucks people either delete or never listen to the albums anyway.

... but yet Overseer starts it off by saying Bustas album is great (so he obviously listens to it frequently) but he hasn't bought it.... why? ... because he downloaded it.  So, blaming downloading is bullshit.  riiiiight. 


Here's the deal: I DON'T BUY SHIT! Why should I?  I can just download it.  I haven't bought a rap album in years, and I WON'T buy a rap album for years.  I'll buy "detox", the rest can fuck off.  I'll download plenty, though. 

Now.  I just told you that I personally don't buy because I download now.  Can you STILL deny that it's a problem?  I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM, don't tell me it's bullshit, it's what *I* do.  If I'm doing it, imagine how many others are. 

Here, how many ways can I say this.  Lets see.

1.  I don't buy albums anymore.
2. I used to buy them all the time.
3. The reason I don't buy them is because I download them.
4.  Artists make less money becuase I no longer buy from them.
5.  I don't give a fuck if it's illegal because you can't be caught.
6. It's easy to do.
7. I feel no remorse because most of the rappers are assholes anyways.
8. I'd rather I have the money than them.
9. One time, I thought about buying a CD, then thought "Fuck that, i'll download it".  I was really close that time, too.

Now... 'downloading doesn't hurt cd sales".  come on man.  Man up.  Take responsibility.  Admit the truth, don't just argue something that there's no argument against. 

EXACTLY  I don't see how anyone can NOT list downloading as the main reason album sales are suffering.  I still buy a few CD's here and there, but nowhere near what I used to.  And everybody I know at work and around the neighborhood.....shit, maybe about 3 of those muthafuckas outta 20+ have bought a CD in the last 5 years.  They bought CD's before, but now they download EVERYTHING.  And so do their friends.  So come on, let's not be naive here