Author Topic: Where the Conservatives are Right  (Read 659 times)

Ant

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Where the Conservatives are Right
« on: August 20, 2006, 10:35:14 PM »
Since some people like to mistakenly believe that I live far to the left.  I'll offer some my thoughts on where conservative ideology trumps the left.  See below:

Minimum Wage - The optimal minimum wage is $0.00.  Plain and simple, in general, people make what they are worked.  Sure, some people get screwed.  I'm not disputing that underpaid individuals exist in society, but this is not as much of a problem as we think.   

Tax Cuts - Any tax cut is a good tax cut.  Why?  Reductions in taxes decrease government revenue and force an eventual reduction in government spending.  The only way to reduce government spending is to reduce taxes.  Unfortunately, this leads to the creation of deficits, but if it also leads to reducing government spending then the positives outweight the negatives.

Government Spending Should be Reduced Drastically - Why?  The government sucks at getting things done.  Private industry is almost always more efficient than the government.  I'm not arguing for it to be reduced to almost zero, but it could go down significantly.  Government spending equals almost 35% of GDP.  Conservative economists argue 20% is a much more reasonable number. 

Education - The liberals are primarily responsible for the mismanagement of the American education system.  Why? They implemented the idea of a top-down government organized education system and furthermore assisted the Teachers Unions rise to political power.  If government sucks at most everything else why would we assume it would be good at managing education.  It isn't.  The conservative option is for government to fund massive voucher programs that give parents the freedom to choose the right school for their child rather than forcing them into the local public school system. 

I could have written more on these, but didnt feel like writting an essay.  If you want further explanation feel to ask.  Unfortunately, the current GOP is a mess as we all now know.  This much at least doesn't need any explanation.  The modern republican party is a) dumb b) often dishonest and c) more concerned with political victory than good governance.
 

J Bananas

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2006, 11:55:34 PM »
i wanna know your thoughts on why there should be no minimum wage whatsoever
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 12:08:10 AM by J Bananas »
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2006, 01:29:07 AM »
supply and demand.............

additonally lots of people here complain about immigrants taking our jobs (mainly eastern europeans these days), they would hapily work for less than minimum wage, so if the supply is there and business demand their services they will get work, putting more people into employment and its win win for everyone. it would also makes us more competitive against emerging economies.

Out of interest what is the US min wage, in the UK its the equivilant of $10/hour

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

Trauma-san

Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2006, 06:57:50 AM »
"if you want further explanation" there's no explanation necessary, you're not dealing with a bunch of retarded children.  You're right on the three or four topics you noted though, I agree.  If you weren't such a fucking idiot about the other things you believe you'd possibly have a chance of my commentary on some of your posts.  That likely will not happen, though.  Keep working, maybe one day you'll realize what a dumbass you've been and beg the King Of Kings' forgiveness. 
 

Digital Pimpin'

Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2006, 07:09:40 AM »
Out of interest what is the US min wage, in the UK its the equivilant of $10/hour

I think it's $5.15 p/h, but it's more in some states (up to $8.50, I think).
 

AndrE16686

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 07:34:50 AM »

Minimum Wage - The optimal minimum wage is $0.00.  Plain and simple, in general, people make what they are worked.  Sure, some people get screwed.  I'm not disputing that underpaid individuals exist in society, but this is not as much of a problem as we think.  

Tax Cuts - Any tax cut is a good tax cut.  Why?  Reductions in taxes decrease government revenue and force an eventual reduction in government spending.  The only way to reduce government spending is to reduce taxes.  Unfortunately, this leads to the creation of deficits, but if it also leads to reducing government spending then the positives outweight the negatives.



I don't think the problem is the government spends too much money, but what the government spends its money on. Spending over a billion on a heap of warheads that are only going to sit in a bunker their whole life seems ridiculous when there are people scraping by on a $5/hour wage and rotting away from poverty.

 

J Bananas

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 10:55:26 AM »
"if you want further explanation" there's no explanation necessary, you're not dealing with a bunch of retarded children.  You're right on the three or four topics you noted though, I agree.  If you weren't such a fucking idiot about the other things you believe you'd possibly have a chance of my commentary on some of your posts.  That likely will not happen, though.  Keep working, maybe one day you'll realize what a dumbass you've been and beg the King Of Kings' forgiveness. 

i love this guy, he's so self righteous, kook
 

Narrator

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2006, 12:02:40 PM »
Conservatives are always "Right"...on the political spectrum.  But that's where it stops.  They are the most evil, sadistic, backwards people in this country.  All will have to perish come Judgment Day.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 12:07:07 PM by Narrator »
 

Dubz

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2006, 02:39:49 PM »
"if you want further explanation" there's no explanation necessary, you're not dealing with a bunch of retarded children.  You're right on the three or four topics you noted though, I agree.  If you weren't such a fucking idiot about the other things you believe you'd possibly have a chance of my commentary on some of your posts.  That likely will not happen, though.  Keep working, maybe one day you'll realize what a dumbass you've been and beg the King Of Kings' forgiveness. 

does george give you sexual favors in return for these kinds of posts to liberals?
 

Ant

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2006, 05:39:58 PM »
^^ haha seriously.  I was wondering at first like who is this dude til I realized it was Trauma.  Ah well... the dude is just sad.

Anyways, why shouldn't there be a minimum wage? 

A few reasons:

1)  People in general make what they are worth.  Why do we only impose minimum wages on low-skilled labor?  Why don't we impose minimum wages on all forms of labor?  We don't say, for example, an account shall make no less than 50k /yr, a plumber shall make no less than 20$ /hr, and so on?  But, we say, low skilled labor shall make no less than x amount.  The market does a fairly good job of determining what people are worth.  If the minimum wage was 10$ hr what happens to people who simply don't produce 10$ /hr worth of value for their company?  Trust me, these people exist.  There are people who quite possibly aren't worth 5$ /hr, sounds cruel, but its reality. 

2) Raising minimum wages makes american firms less competitive and the american economy less efficient.  Arbitrary rules always decrease efficiency.  Would you rather have China doing all the hand labor jobs, or would you prefer they stayed here?  Too late, these types of positions already left the American Economy.  Why? The minimum wage made it infeasible for companies to offer piece rate, hand labor jobs in America.  Any type of product whose production isn't highly automated is typically done overseas.  It didn't have to be.  We could have kept these jobs here, and let Americans decide whether or not they are willing to accept them. Instead, we don't even have the choice.  Sure, these jobs aren't great to raise a family on, but some really low-paying jobs are good for certain people, for example, an unemployed mother who can't work full time because she wants to raise the kids but wouldn't mind earning some extra money.  Or, younger kids with low skills that need a few extra bucks. 

3) Raising the minimum wage significantly impacts teenage employment. As we raise the minimum wage we also raise the teenager unemployment.  This is unfortunate.  Research shows that joining the workforce later in life negatively effects personal income and also individuals who join the workforce later tend to have less career stability.. they change jobs often.

A simpler way to think of it.  If you think of the two extreme ends of the spectrum, those being, no minimum wage or a ridiculously high minimum wage (100$ /hr) which would you prefer for society?  Obviously as the minimum wage moves higher it will negatively impact our economy.  Even people that support the minimum wage know that no minimum wage is preferably to 100$ /hr minimum wage.  Maybe this is overly simplified, but it makes a good point.  If a massive increase to the minimum wage is definitely bad, but an elimination of the minimum wage is arguably good what does that say about the two positions?
 

J Bananas

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2006, 07:18:53 PM »
^actually i totally agree with you but its just not realistic in the society we've already built for ourselves. America would be super bomb if we still earned what we worked for. its just sad to look at the decline of our culture ever since people started demanding handouts. welfare was a good idea during the depression, too bad it just gave way for a bunch of idealistic lazy asses to start telling the government it had to take care of everybody
 

Ant

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2006, 06:02:19 PM »
yeah... its definitely a pipe dream now that the only party in this country that is used to support an intelligent political ideology has been over taken by religious nut jobs and foolishly idealistic neo-cons.

My hope is that there is massive backlash against the last 6 years within the republican party and someone like Chuck Hagel  gets a shot at the presidency.  There are almost no traditional conservatives left on the right.  If they do exist their scared to show their true colors.

Instead, we have a party of retarded Cwalkers, Traumas, and woodrows.
 

Javier

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 06:13:48 PM »
I'm not comfortable with people with a shaved head, especially if they are white.  Imma ask for them to get kicked out of the plane too. 
 

M Dogg™

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2006, 06:19:46 PM »
Since some people like to mistakenly believe that I live far to the left.  I'll offer some my thoughts on where conservative ideology trumps the left.  See below:

Minimum Wage - The optimal minimum wage is $0.00.  Plain and simple, in general, people make what they are worked.  Sure, some people get screwed.  I'm not disputing that underpaid individuals exist in society, but this is not as much of a problem as we think.   

Tax Cuts - Any tax cut is a good tax cut.  Why?  Reductions in taxes decrease government revenue and force an eventual reduction in government spending.  The only way to reduce government spending is to reduce taxes.  Unfortunately, this leads to the creation of deficits, but if it also leads to reducing government spending then the positives outweight the negatives.

Government Spending Should be Reduced Drastically - Why?  The government sucks at getting things done.  Private industry is almost always more efficient than the government.  I'm not arguing for it to be reduced to almost zero, but it could go down significantly.  Government spending equals almost 35% of GDP.  Conservative economists argue 20% is a much more reasonable number. 

Education - The liberals are primarily responsible for the mismanagement of the American education system.  Why? They implemented the idea of a top-down government organized education system and furthermore assisted the Teachers Unions rise to political power.  If government sucks at most everything else why would we assume it would be good at managing education.  It isn't.  The conservative option is for government to fund massive voucher programs that give parents the freedom to choose the right school for their child rather than forcing them into the local public school system. 

I could have written more on these, but didnt feel like writting an essay.  If you want further explanation feel to ask.  Unfortunately, the current GOP is a mess as we all now know.  This much at least doesn't need any explanation.  The modern republican party is a) dumb b) often dishonest and c) more concerned with political victory than good governance.

Minimun wage I think is a good thing, though companies will still find a way to fuck over lower skilled workers. As someone who has worked for minimun wage, and has managed those that also have, I think it's fine the way it is. I understand your logic, by nature you are a right wing person, in the same sense as George H. W. Bush and John McCain, and I respect that. I do not agree with this one though.

Tax Cuts are always good. It was Kennedy who used tax cuts so America entered the 60's in one of the biggest economical upswings in history. And it was LBJ who also championed tax cuts. High taxes were only used for the New Deal to pull us out of depression, so it basically used the rich money to have the government pay for more jobs to get people working. Taxes where meant to be lowered once the time was right. But when Eisenhower became president after Trauman, he left everything status quo, and did not lower taxes like a good Republican should, so Kennedy did. The only problem I have with tax cuts is that we are in MAJOR DEBT. I think we should get out of debt, and get out of debt soon. We own China a lot of money, and at any time they can pull our card and fuck us over. I think that Clinton's economics where very smart in the 90's, and Bush cut taxes and spend more has hurt us. Our economy is not as strong, and notice that with our economy goes gas prices. Our dollar value has dropped since the 90's, and gas prices are higher because of it. After all, ifthe dollar's value drops due to our debt, then we pay more dollar's internationally, and then our gas is more expensive. As for the Euro, well, Europeans always get fucked because traditionally they've always had high gas prices. Fix the economy, then cut taxes.

Government spending. I disagree because I am a true Democrat. I am more of a Clinton Democrat, get job programs instead of straight welfare, give student aid to college students, and fix our public schools. I will admit, priviate is better at getting things done, but our government needs to get things done as well so people who can't take advantage of priviate companies for their needs, can have some help in reaching the next level. I'm an example, I had thousands of dollars in college grants, my father was on welfare after my parents divorced, my mom was on dissablity because of her drug problem, and our family still never had money because they don't give you enough, they give you enough so your kids don't starve. And that's the way it should be, people need help, my dad lost his wife to drug, job to the bad economy, and his house because he couldn't afford it no more. He lost everything, but the government was there to make sure we don't starve. I would cut some programs, but I would keep ones that actually help people, and I would add a vet job/housing program, because there are too many vets who are homeless after they risked their lives for us.

Education, the education system is in shock. Why, because our schools are over crowded. They thought the Baby Boomers were bad, once those Baby Boomers had kids, there was no way in the world our country was ready. The southern schools, were teacher's unions are weak, are the poorest schools, the northern states, like Minnesota and Iowa, have strong unions and strong schools. It's not the teacher unions though, it's the efford people put into school, and the population. Minnesota has 7 homes for sale for every 1 person who wants to buy, and tons of jobs for everyone because no one lives here. Smaller class sizes equals better schools. States like California, Texas and Florida have 40 kids in a class room, and they are over crowded. There is no money to build new schools, and in fact many southern states can't make money from their tax base. To support tax cuts, they cut education, and the future suffers. The federial government needs to find a way to even the odds between education in the north and south. I don't trust this current government, but something is needed. No Child Left Behind is putting pressure on teacher who are set up to fail.
 

virtuoso

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Re: Where the Conservatives are Right
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2006, 07:44:50 PM »

I enjoy reading your posts Ant, however on the issue of the minimum wage I have very mixed feelings. On the one hand I can understand where your logic is based but on the other hand here in england I saw the effects of no set minumum wage, it was horrendous, so therefore let me ask you something. In the county which I live in there are some parts which are essentially small villages which are very cut off and for that reason of course jobs are scarce. For some people, moving to the city, just isnt an option, whether that is because they want to stay close by to support their parents. or indeed they simply can not afford to move straight into accomodation in the cities. Now with that being said, and with extortionate bills encountered on a constant basis. how are they expected to get by without a minimum wage? Americans like to talk about their ghettos, but the poverty in some of these places is disgusting, they need some sort of a safety net wouldnt you agree?

Furthermore when you talk about government overspending in the united states, don't forget that Cynthia Mckinney was questioning Donald Rumsfeld as to why there is 3 trillion dollars unaccounted for in the militarys finances. This means that the american economy is literally being plundered and pillaged via criminality on an unimaginable scale. Therefore the so called government overspending overlooks that, the fact is, if the money was being spent honestly then no american would struggle. The american economy is being hollowed out, anyways that is a seperate issue and would like to read your response to the question I have posed.