Author Topic: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election  (Read 235 times)

virtuoso

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 02:31:53 AM »

lol you have to keep reverting to labels huh "extreme left" no I do not move away from my ideology. In comparison to what is going on all over europe and america and for that matter Canada, Chavez is a welcome respite, you are the one who sees things with tunnel vision when it comes to anything to do with america. So I have shifted from an idealist to "extreme left" oooh how about a dangerous extremist .....or despite me supporting what I say by citing facts a "wacko" yeah lol you really are pathetic with your incessant need for labels.
 

AndrE16686

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2006, 03:15:20 AM »
What the fuck was the point of this thread Ant? Chavez is manipulative like Bush?

Well OK lets see,

Bush manipulates the electorate by preying on the people's fear of terrorist threats inorder to wage a pointless war.

Chavez manipulates his electorate by preying on his people's hatred of Bush and US imperialism, inorder to kick out US corporations that have been robbing Venezuela of it's oil and natural resources for decades.


The End.



 

virtuoso

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2006, 04:18:32 AM »

It's actually a very fruitful war YGZ
 

Ant

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2006, 11:20:51 AM »
lol you have to keep reverting to labels huh "extreme left" no I do not move away from my ideology. In comparison to what is going on all over europe and america and for that matter Canada, Chavez is a welcome respite, you are the one who sees things with tunnel vision when it comes to anything to do with america. So I have shifted from an idealist to "extreme left" oooh how about a dangerous extremist .....or despite me supporting what I say by citing facts a "wacko" yeah lol you really are pathetic with your incessant need for labels.

You want to run away from labels.  It's okay.  Everybody does.  We all want to be well-reasoned. 

I'm against the inappropriate use of labels and/or words in general.  We often use words like liberal, conservative, etc. incorrectly.

But you do relate best to a particular group (i.e. the extreme left of the democratic party). Of course you can easily deny this because you refuse to admit what ideologies you support.   But its ironic that you were offended when I called you liberal, but insisted your worldview is conservative.  Clearly your engaged in trickery.  If that wasnt an attempt to trick me, than its an attempt to trick yourself.  If labels do you enjoy calling your views conservative, but dislike being called liberal?   

I'll be honest enough to admit I most respect the ideology of classical liberals and libertarians.  I'll clearly state what I support.

But its obvious that you see certain  perspectives thru rose-colored lenses.  If you were so balanced then how come your ideas and facts come from such unbalanced sources?  You draw your facts AND ideas almost exclusively from fringe groups. 

===

If you go far to the left of the democratic party.. those people relate best to you.  There is nothing wrong with that. If you relate better to another group.. then please explain which it is.  I just want to know what exactly you support... And if you don't ally with the far left then why do you cite far left sources almost exclusively?

---

But you're right labels don't matter that much.  What I find rude is your inconsistency.  It's wrong for you to always cite sources and ideas that come from the far left then claim to be other things... like when you claim to be conservative.

You duck and dodge labels to confuse people as to your true ideology.  Its much better to debate ideologies than naming conventions... but you don't want to state your ideology so I have to guess.  And my best guess is your ideology is that of somebody from the extreme left.  Or an extreme modern liberal. 

You know the old saying... people judge you by the company you keep.  It applies here.  You cite extreme modern liberals all day.  That's what I'll assume you are.  I like classical liberalism and libertarianism, and I tend to cite people and ideas that reflect those inclinations.

 

virtuoso

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2006, 11:38:08 AM »

Lol this has to be some sort of a joke I am not offended at being called a liberal I just find the label stupid for reasons I have already mentioned. In fact I could spend a long time picking apart what you have just said but I am respinding briefly "left wing sources" ohh you mean depleted uranium (military doucments) you mean military commission act (the bill itself) perhaps you mean the surveillance state (the words of the politicians themselves) ohh perhaps you mean the elites hand in all of this (confessions of an IMF hitman) but he is only small fry so I will cite another sources Joseph Stiglits or Stiglitz I am not sure, if you don't know who he is then I suggest you find out. Furthermore there are waves of declassified doucments yet you still want to deny reality clasp your hands over your ears and call out "leftist" "wacko" oh and "conspiracy theorist" That is to name but a few examples as for me having no ideology clearly you are either lying or you did not read what I said in the last post for the the thread titled to all you democrats, so here it is again

It's simple I am against the type of blanket centralisation of power which is taking place, my first post never attacked you in fact in never attacked anyone personally. My idealogy is centred around the integirty of the constitution being upheld whether thats the british constitution the american constitution or whatever, i am against intrusive government, i am against open borders. i am against the sovereignty of a nation being diluted by a central unelected entity called the european union. I am against the blanket support which is afforded to israel, the funding of Israel, aid makes it's way quciker there then it has done to the victims of hurricane katrina. I am against these lying bastards concocting fabrication after fabrication which  is then used to justify the mass murder of a nation. I am against the total brainwashing and emotional blackmail which is used against the people of the nation into supporting these horrific war's using the "support the troops" line to quell any oppositon.

I am against the media becoming more of a parrot for official policy than an independent body I can give you numerous examples of this. I am against political groups posing as opposition and bemoaning the power of the government when at the very same time they are supporting them in obtaining this power. I am against our countries being turned into literal prisons just without the bars, where in Britain these politicians most notably Tony Blair actually wants the entire nations DNA to be stored on a database, where kids have to give their thumb print to obtain a library book, where public services and medical services which are a necessity will be banned for those that refuse to have their fingerprints taken and have a national id card. I am against the fearmongering and mind control tactics which are being used to steer a populous into accepting that in order to protect them and give them security their inaliable rights must be taken from them. I am against this world being maneuvored into a one world government which utltimately means a dictatorship, the asian union, the north american union the european union that is the world government right there.

I am against the destruction and criminalisation of free speech it is an out in the open move to silence dissenters by introducing draconian laws to punish those who dare step outside of these realms. Furthermore it never seems to stop just wave after wave after wave of new laws it is very sinister. Yet if people would just open their ideas, stop being dosey and started reading and understanding what was going on around them they would be outraged but so many people have become so conditioned to it that everything passes under the radar.

Ultimately you are a fool for denying what I have said is taking place, there is no outcry from the democrats over the burning of your constitution because they are helping to engineer it. Perhaps you could legitimately say that the democrats are the lesser of 2 evils but for that we will have to see. For any of what I have said research into it, I am not being sensationalist it's all right there in the open whether it's from interviews, speeaches. There is nothing particularly covert about it anymore it's just people love to live in ignorance waving their flags when they haven't got a clue what the people who have sworn to act as the servants are really doing. I don't pretend to be the oracle of truth but i am on the ball enough to see through this thinsheet transparency. On the major issues the parties are the same, both agreeing with one another and that only spells very troubling times ahead.To be honest it's the same here between the conservatives and labour only people are a little more awake and have realised that it doesnt matter who comes into power between these 2 parties, these laws will not be repealed, the agenda will just carry on under a different party and different faces.

So stop with the tired crap about being not having an ideology oh but wait I can not think of a label because it probably does not fit snugly into a label.  ::)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 12:24:32 PM by virtuoso »
 

Ant

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2006, 09:37:34 PM »
Lol this has to be some sort of a joke I am not offended at being called a liberal I just find the label stupid for reasons I have already mentioned. In fact I could spend a long time picking apart what you have just said but I am respinding briefly "left wing sources" ohh you mean depleted uranium (military doucments) you mean military commission act (the bill itself) perhaps you mean the surveillance state (the words of the politicians themselves) ohh perhaps you mean the elites hand in all of this (confessions of an IMF hitman) but he is only small fry so I will cite another sources Joseph Stiglits or Stiglitz I am not sure, if you don't know who he is then I suggest you find out. Furthermore there are waves of declassified doucments yet you still want to deny reality clasp your hands over your ears and call out "leftist" "wacko" oh and "conspiracy theorist" That is to name but a few examples as for me having no ideology clearly you are either lying or you did not read what I said in the last post for the the thread titled to all you democrats, so here it is again

The reasons you already mentioned?  Like when you adamantly declared you're not a liberal.

Quote from: virtuoso
there is no way I'm a liberal

I'm not gonna go dragging up your old posts.  I don't call your sources wacko when they come from reputable places.  But repeatedly you post crap that comes from wacko bloggers.  Or random videos by fringe conspriacy theorists. Like the one time you posted some shitty video by an "expert" who was an expert because he had.... ooo a PHD!   When you post stuff from reliable sources I don't say anything.  So don't pretend like I've ever criticized you for posting a reliable source.  I've called your sources wacko when they come from far left liberal blogs and other unreliable far left sources. 

And I'm glad you know who Joe Stiglitz is.. do you think you're impressing me, or it makes you intelligent because you know the name of one well-known economists?  I read his books well before you knew his name.  Of course I've already read plenty from other well-regarded economists, foreign policy experts, and political theorists.  I also read Confessions of an Economic Hitman.  Which I believed you reference.  I know all that you do and plenty more... because I listen to both sides.  Not just people that make me feel good because they confirm my current worldview.


It's simple I am against the type of blanket centralisation of power which is taking place, my first post never attacked you in fact in never attacked anyone personally. My idealogy is centred around the integirty of the constitution being upheld whether thats the british constitution the american constitution or whatever, i am against intrusive government, i am against open borders. i am against the sovereignty of a nation being diluted by a central unelected entity called the european union. I am against the blanket support which is afforded to israel, the funding of Israel, aid makes it's way quciker there then it has done to the victims of hurricane katrina. I am against these lying bastards concocting fabrication after fabrication which  is then used to justify the mass murder of a nation. I am against the total brainwashing and emotional blackmail which is used against the people of the nation into supporting these horrific war's using the "support the troops" line to quell any oppositon.

This is not an ideology.  It's a rant.  All you've said is:

I'm against things I consider evil.
I'm for things I consider good.

What is the name of this particular ideology? 

I am against the media becoming more of a parrot for official policy than an independent body I can give you numerous examples of this. I am against political groups posing as opposition and bemoaning the power of the government when at the very same time they are supporting them in obtaining this power. I am against our countries being turned into literal prisons just without the bars, where in Britain these politicians most notably Tony Blair actually wants the entire nations DNA to be stored on a database, where kids have to give their thumb print to obtain a library book, where public services and medical services which are a necessity will be banned for those that refuse to have their fingerprints taken and have a national id card. I am against the fearmongering and mind control tactics which are being used to steer a populous into accepting that in order to protect them and give them security their inaliable rights must be taken from them. I am against this world being maneuvored into a one world government which utltimately means a dictatorship, the asian union, the north american union the european union that is the world government right there.

I am against the destruction and criminalisation of free speech it is an out in the open move to silence dissenters by introducing draconian laws to punish those who dare step outside of these realms. Furthermore it never seems to stop just wave after wave after wave of new laws it is very sinister. Yet if people would just open their ideas, stop being dosey and started reading and understanding what was going on around them they would be outraged but so many people have become so conditioned to it that everything passes under the radar.

More ranting.  Stop your whining.  Your crying makes my fuckin head hurt.  Whining like a little bitch doesn't give your views more validity.

Ultimately you are a fool for denying what I have said is taking place, there is no outcry from the democrats over the burning of your constitution because they are helping to engineer it.

I don't deny everything you say.  The problem is you say sooo much shit, and you say it sooo incoherently that its an annoying waste of time to try to dissect all your views.  Show where I agree, and where I disagree.  Instead its obvious that your overall worldview is jaded.  Were it more balanced you wouldn't be such a whiney little bitch.  You'd be able to name a set of principles that guide your decision making.  And you might just make some sense.

Perhaps you could legitimately say that the democrats are the lesser of 2 evils but for that we will have to see. For any of what I have said research into it, I am not being sensationalist it's all right there in the open whether it's from interviews, speeaches. There is nothing particularly covert about it anymore it's just people love to live in ignorance waving their flags when they haven't got a clue what the people who have sworn to act as the servants are really doing. I don't pretend to be the oracle of truth but i am on the ball enough to see through this thinsheet transparency. On the major issues the parties are the same, both agreeing with one another and that only spells very troubling times ahead.To be honest it's the same here between the conservatives and labour only people are a little more awake and have realised that it doesnt matter who comes into power between these 2 parties, these laws will not be repealed, the agenda will just carry on under a different party and different faces.

Maybe if you had a job you wouldn't be so concerned with trying to save the world.

So stop with the tired crap about being not having an ideology oh but wait I can not think of a label because it probably does not fit snugly into a label.  ::)

Do you want to try again.  What exactly are the principles that guide your worldview?
 

virtuoso

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2006, 08:57:41 AM »

Lol my god principles oh I see so it's not enough that all of these things are taking place I have to have a driving principle behind it...I want freedom I want to see constitutional integrrity. Furthermore there was nothing that economist said which is sensationalist in the slightest you idiot, ask yourself what it was he actually said, he merely spoke briefly about what the dollar is, how the federal reserve works, oooh yes it was so conspiratorial  ::). Now because of what the video you have the deluded view that because the actual article itself is written from a "non mainstream writer" that the information itself is wacky even though most of the article itself is build around mainstream media articles and mainstream public figures words, your ignorance is unbelievable as for the other side of things it is from being in contact with the home office regularly that I do understand both sides particularly on the issue of a databse state.
Watch America Freedom To Facism you might actually open your eyes slightly. Finally i do have a job but I am working part time at the moment not that it's any of your business but somehow you are trying to use the idea that I don't have a job to attack what I have said ...give me a break  ::)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 09:00:36 AM by virtuoso »
 

Ant

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2006, 06:59:29 PM »
of course... everyone that believed in witches felt those who didn't were stupid.  They wondered "how could you NOT see the witches hurting us????"

But more to the point of you not making sense.  I still have no clue what your ideology is.

I'll try to re-explain the problem....

Basically you let loose on these nutty rants that are filled with conflicting ideas and littered with assumptions.  That's not an ideology.  This is why you're so annoying.  You just spout these elitist "i'm trying to save the world and everyone is against me" rants. 

You want to debate "ideas" but I don't know what your ideas are because you never state them clearly.  You contradict yourself all the time, but your contradictions are so jumbled up in a mess of half-truths, assumptions, and speculation mixed with some relevant faxed that you can't think clearly.



« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 07:08:45 PM by Ant »
 

virtuoso

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2006, 07:23:57 PM »
lol are you serious?

1)I am a nationalist
2) I am a constitutionalist
3) I am a libertarian

You can't seem to get your head round this unlike you and your bewildering refusal to acknowledge that both the democrats and the republicans are controlled I have my ideology, now if Chavez was to suddenly clamp down on free speech, if he was to suddenly turn around embracing america because there was a different president in charge, if he was to revert to the police state environment which existed under previous military dictatorships I would no longer see him as a good guy. Whereas you despite your "i didn't say i support George Bush" still can't understand that when the democrats vote in the same manner as the republicans they are endorsing it lol. Or even if yuo do realise it, it suddenly doesn't matter because you are realist. I am done with responding on this thread I will not ask what all these half truths are because I am sure I will not get a direct response rather I will get another response telling me how I am a leftist ,...one last thing
Watch America From Freedom To Facism
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 07:30:45 PM by virtuoso »
 

Ant

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2006, 10:54:50 PM »
Run away!!! 

Finally you stated something that lets me show my point.  Let me put this simply... its the only thing you have to remember:

You constantly contradict yourself

This is what I'm always trying to point out, but you don't even know what you believe in... so you get confused when I try to explain things. 

So you're a libertarian???????????

Right...

Then you wouldn't support:

1) Chavez
2) Minimum wage laws

Even more ridiculously...

You cannot be a libertarian and a nationalist at the same time.

How is it possible to support protectionism and libertarism at the same time.  You said before you support limited government, but you also support protectionism.   And min. wage.  Agains... these ideas contradict themselves.

But if you want to explain one thing to me please explain how libertarianism and nationalism are compatible?


 

virtuoso

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Re: Chavez uses Bush to win re-election
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2006, 02:08:17 AM »
Aargh I must be a glutton for punishment see this is why I HATE labels when I said libertarian I meant I am m for the protection of liberty a non intrusive police surveillance state therefore calling myself a libertarian was completely wrong and I will freely admit that. So that does not clash with supporting a minimum wage. Certainly Chavez has done nothing to merit me saying he has violated that because he has is not employing the same tactics as a military dictatorship. In the future this may change and if so that I could no longer see him in a positive light. Therefore your rebuke is complete nonsense of course I can be a nationalist and want to preserve liberty. In fact that is an embodiment of someone that is a nationalist, giving away all sovereignty leaves you at the mercy of an unelected body who do not have the good of the individual country in mind but in the mighty union. You can not and will never accept that globalisation is destroying america you have a very false paradigm that the answer to americas problems is to invest in new technology. That is an absolute and utter fallacy and myth something like 85% of r&d jobs go to China not because of productivity but because of wages. This outsourcing will continue because there are indeed people in these countries who are just as intelligent and will do the same job for for sixth or seventh as what someone will typically get paid, now me advocating a tax on outsourcing is not contradictory to a small governmen. I have absolutely no idea where this comes from big government and mass centralisation comes from every level, every aspect of a citizens life, now that is not the same as a tax on outsourcing. You can drastically reduce beaurocracy and still have a tax on outsourcing of jobs, unless WAIT oh I know the answer is to compete on the same wage levels lol.

Now as you are never going to be able to answer what half truths I am telling, you are never going to answer how the democrats are suddenly going to restore liberty when they endorsed such wide ranging far reaching and potentially devastating draconian bills then to continue this is pointless. Now I am definitely leaving this alone because you will never accept any of this and no one else is replying to this thread but i still think you should watch
America From Freedom To Facism
Then again it might just smash all of your paradigms in one fell swoop so best to give it a wide birth
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 02:29:18 AM by virtuoso »