DJ Premier(yes this is west coast relevant)

[Tanjential]

So I finally bought Jay-Z's first album yesterday. Reasonable doubt, and as I listened to it and looked through the booklet I see that DJ Premier produced a bunch of it. Just like he produced Nas' debut album in 94(some of it) and they were debuts from young hungry rappers from that area who came with maad heat, based on what I've read, Nas was on some mixtape in 91 or 92 or some shit and people heard him, signed him, he makes a record and it gets dropped. I was talking about rap with an east coast head the other day (this guy is a CA resident though) and he was talking mad shit about the west coast and how west coast is fucking up. He was saying that the reason the east and south have it on lock is because as soon as anyone has some heat , a major label sets them up right and puts them out. Did it really go down that way? Did the elitist of the elite just see Nas was the next big thing immediately and immediately take the necessary steps to insure he got to do his thing? What is it about the hip-hop machine on the east coast that allows that to happen that isn't happening on the west coast?

My point is, I'm looking at nas and jay-z's  debut fucking albums and they already have production from the most respected (arguably) producer on the east coast whereas by the time Xzibit hookd up with dre he no longer had that illmatic/reasonable doubt style hunger. why does dre, for example, jump on the production roster for the new heat 3 albums in while premier is lacing dope MCs in nY out the fetus?

do the big ec producers like primo listen to mixtapes more closely or diligently or what?

how come nas and jay z get primo and clark kent on their debuts and xzibit gets whoever the fuck produced 40 dayz and speed of life and crooked I gets a no albu? Didn't he write some shit for dre, dude can't give him a beat? you guys get what I'm saying? what is about our machine on the westside that doesn't allow the new heat to immediately get some fire from the greats and drop an album?

-T

[R-Tistic]

Well it really depends on who you are talkin about.....cats like DOC, Snoop, Game, Knoc, and many others on the west have had these major producers on their debut albums....but their careers just went in completely different directions. Jay had actually been around since the late 80s, and wasn't at all new to the industry. At the same time...there have been a lot of East Coast acts to come out without really having any major production on their first LP.

At the same time....Premier has always been a major, relevant producer...but has never been picky about who he works with, and doesn't charge nearly as much as Dre or even Quik. Many of the west coast producers have been very home based, and in the 90s, they only worked inside of their own crews. You only saw Quik producin for cats he grew up with and were in his clique....u only saw Dre workin with Death Row artists, major artists (R. Kelly), and cats within his own circle.

[d-nice]

So I finally bought Jay-Z's first album yesterday. Reasonable doubt, and as I listened to it and looked through the booklet I see that DJ Premier produced a bunch of it. Just like he produced Nas' debut album in 94(some of it) and they were debuts from young hungry rappers from that area who came with maad heat, based on what I've read, Nas was on some mixtape in 91 or 92 or some shit and people heard him, signed him, he makes a record and it gets dropped. I was talking about rap with an east coast head the other day (this guy is a CA resident though) and he was talking mad shit about the west coast and how west coast is fucking up. He was saying that the reason the east and south have it on lock is because as soon as anyone has some heat , a major label sets them up right and puts them out. Did it really go down that way? Did the elitist of the elite just see Nas was the next big thing immediately and immediately take the necessary steps to insure he got to do his thing? What is it about the hip-hop machine on the east coast that allows that to happen that isn't happening on the west coast?

My point is, I'm looking at nas and jay-z's  debut fucking albums and they already have production from the most respected (arguably) producer on the east coast whereas by the time Xzibit hookd up with dre he no longer had that illmatic/reasonable doubt style hunger. why does dre, for example, jump on the production roster for the new heat 3 albums in while premier is lacing dope MCs in nY out the fetus?

do the big ec producers like primo listen to mixtapes more closely or diligently or what?

how come nas and jay z get primo and clark kent on their debuts and xzibit gets whoever the fuck produced 40 dayz and speed of life and crooked I gets a no albu? Didn't he write some shit for dre, dude can't give him a beat? you guys get what I'm saying? what is about our machine on the westside that doesn't allow the new heat to immediately get some fire from the greats and drop an album?

-T

I have to disagree with you about Xzibit. 40 dayz is a dope album and it had alot of Dr. Dre taught producers on it. It's not X's fault it was slept on. The west has alot of dope producers but lets face it, what ones other than Dre have a set up like him? None. So the cream of the crop out here is Dre. We need more labels for west coast acts to show it ain't just about Dre. Premier and Clark Kent are not on major labels so it is easier for a east coast rapper to go to a Premier or Kent for beats and they are established producers. Other than Dre, not alot of labels that have west coast artists want producers they deem as B list producers. They want the timbos and pharrells and do not realize they could make a name for the producer as well as their artist. Look at what a record like Gangsta Nation did for Fred Wreck. We here all know he is dope but the world got just a little bit of what he can do.

[Tanjential]

whoah, when did dre work with r.kelly?

so you're just saying nas and jay were of a similar camp of people to the west coasts nwa tree to where such shit could just happen like that?


not saying 40 dayz ain't tight, but it ain't illmatic, and maybe with as many dre beats as illmatic had premier beats, it would have been you know?

-T

[d-nice]

whoah, when did dre work with r.kelly?

so you're just saying nas and jay were of a similar camp of people to the west coasts nwa tree to where such shit could just happen like that?


not saying 40 dayz ain't tight, but it ain't illmatic, and maybe with as many dre beats as illmatic had premier beats, it would have been you know?

-T

I am saying the east is structured to the point that a Biggie, Nas or Jay could go to a Premier or Pete Rock and create classics like that. Dre is only 1 man. He can't work with EVERYONE on the west. The producers on the east consider it a honor and a challenge to work with those artists. What do we have out here? Dreams. We have other dope producers out here but people feel like a dope album can't happen without Dre beats and that is not always true. We need more producers out here to be able to make a household name for themselves. I think the work WillIAm is putting in is good for the west. JR Rotem, Fred Wreck, Complex, etc. We have dope producers. Dre could work with more artists but in the end it is up to him. And there are alot of albums that are not Illmatic but that is not X's fault Dre was not on there. It worked out fine for Xzibit because he executive produced Restless so it all worked out.

[Tanjential]

I'm not saying anything was X's fault, it's the structure of the west coast.

and nah, it doesn't work out because dre wasn't producing him till he wasn't as hungry, past his peak. i'm saying dre and x should have happened out the gate like nas/premier, jay/premier. but the west insn't structured like that. it's so 'go for self' out here that no one fucks with you until you're noticed hardcore.

and yeah, you can do a dre-tastic west coast album without dre but ask Game and geffen how expensive that was.

-T

[d-nice]

I'm not saying anything was X's fault, it's the structure of the west coast.

and nah, it doesn't work out because dre wasn't producing him till he wasn't as hungry, past his peak. i'm saying dre and x should have happened out the gate like nas/premier, jay/premier. but the west insn't structured like that. it's so 'go for self' out here that no one fucks with you until you're noticed hardcore.

and yeah, you can do a dre-tastic west coast album without dre but ask Game and geffen how expensive that was.

-T

Xzibit sounded like he was at his peak on Restless. (pops in Restless as I am typing this) That is up to the producer. Xzibit back then had a dope camp and producer with Da Liks and E Swift. Most people actually wanted more E Swift collabos with Xzibit then anything else lately. I don't know how much Game and Geffen paid the producers but yeah I guess if I was in their position I would want to be paid top dollar too.

[Tanjential]

I'm saying Game and geffen paid top dollar for top dollar producers to make up for the production game used to get for free. -T

[Tanjential]

not that xzibit wasn't dope on restless, especially on the dre tracks but the album still wasn't a classic cause so many of the non dre tracks were lacking. if xzibit was already with dre out the gate there would have been the tight dre/x collabs supported by the already classic shit x was doing on 40days and speedolife.
speed of life + dre production=something more like illmatic than any other x album we've yet heard.
-T

[d-nice]

not that xzibit wasn't dope on restless, especially on the dre tracks but the album still wasn't a classic cause so many of the non dre tracks were lacking. if xzibit was already with dre out the gate there would have been the tight dre/x collabs supported by the already classic shit x was doing on 40days and speedolife.
speed of life + dre production=something more like illmatic than any other x album we've yet heard.
-T

True, but I still consider both of his 1st 2 albums near classics anyway without Dre. What tracks not done by Dre did you think are lacking?

[Tanjential]

no tracks in particular, just the near classic thing. had dre been involved out the gate, those near classics would be classics. if illmatic came outthe gate without pete rock and primo, it still would have been near classic. but those legends touch gave it that extra oomph to make it happen. i don't see west coast doing that. that east coast head i was talking to was saying the east is tight because as soon as someone has a buzz the whole hip hop community there feels its necessary to get dude heard if he's hot and they're all on it callin primo and russel simmons gettin' dude hooked up. don't happen like that out here.

-T

[d-nice]

no tracks in particular, just the near classic thing. had dre been involved out the gate, those near classics would be classics. if illmatic came outthe gate without pete rock and primo, it still would have been near classic. but those legends touch gave it that extra oomph to make it happen. i don't see west coast doing that. that east coast head i was talking to was saying the east is tight because as soon as someone has a buzz the whole hip hop community there feels its necessary to get dude heard if he's hot and they're all on it callin primo and russel simmons gettin' dude hooked up. don't happen like that out here.

-T

True. The last artist to really pull alot of talented artists together like that out here would be Pac with All Eyez On Me. Game did it a little bit on DA. We and I say we because I am from the west, we as fans and the artists also need to support more of our own. With a artist like a Nas or Biggie on the East, the east coast as a whole support the movement and when you support it, it makes the coast or region stronger. We don't do that anymore and have not done it in almost a decade.

[Tanjential]

Yeah, people need to stop hating on game and admit that even if he is a whack rapper(which i don't feel he is) his albums are still worth purchasing like a motherfucker cause they're so well produced. I mean, you don't have to like Game to bounce to 'too much' storchy and nate come on!

-T

[d-nice]

no tracks in particular, just the near classic thing. had dre been involved out the gate, those near classics would be classics. if illmatic came outthe gate without pete rock and primo, it still would have been near classic. but those legends touch gave it that extra oomph to make it happen. i don't see west coast doing that. that east coast head i was talking to was saying the east is tight because as soon as someone has a buzz the whole hip hop community there feels its necessary to get dude heard if he's hot and they're all on it callin primo and russel simmons gettin' dude hooked up. don't happen like that out here.

-T

But again that Dre quote about working with other artists to make classics also falls on Dre. Kind of hard to create classic music if Dre is too busy to work with you.That is why our dope producers need more exposure so that you do not feel like you need Dre to do classic material. Make the material stand out so that DRE COMES TO YOU. That is why Dre wanted to work with X.

[d-nice]

Yeah, people need to stop hating on game and admit that even if he is a whack rapper(which i don't feel he is) his albums are still worth purchasing like a motherfucker cause they're so well produced. I mean, you don't have to like Game to bounce to 'too much' storchy and nate come on!

-T

But maybe some people just do not like Game. I for damn sure do not like he fact he mentioned Dre 50 times on this record. He wasted alot of tracks doing that but then you hear a song like One Night or Ole English and Game gets away from that and makes some dope storytelling tracks. I think people would have respected the music more if he left that beef shit alone and just focused on making dope music. He is making it with the Dre name dropping but it was too much for me. I still like the album though.