How do you guys judge the success of America's adventure into Iraq?

[Suffice]

I still think the US, has a strong chance of winning in Iraq.

What Cheney said was reasonable: 'the US public will never allow a withdrawal'. Because the US public will not vote to lose a war.

And the problem for the Democrats is that they will never be able to justify a withdrawal from Iraq to the public (unless they launch a huge 9/11 truth campaign....an outlandish notion of course  ). 


It will be a win, because:

A) Got that oil, baby,


and


B) Got them military bases on prime stategic real estate.




Iran however, dosn't look like its going to bend over and start picking cotton anytime soon.

Let's make a definition of a win in Iraq. What would a win constitute?

[Elevz]

Suffice, do you consider yourself anarchist? Just asking, because you seem to feel such strong resent against the government.

You really did bring some interesting points into this topic. However I find it hard to really judge the situation, simply because we don't know what's going on, or what has been going on. We can't possibly know the real motives for this war (after all, we don't know the true goals of the US government) and that makes it a tough situation to judge.

Oil? Is that it? Capturing sources with enough oil to maintain the absurdity's of life in America for at least a couple more years? I'm not so sure about any of that. After all, the US government has shown with 9/11 how much they really care about the civilians. They killed thousands of people, just to stir up a deep fear inside the people, and to keep them divided. To maintain power, that is. Not because they actually care about the well being of the nation.

I'm not nearly done thinking over how people maintain power. I guess it's somewhere in between keeping them dependant and satisfied at the same time. 9/11 did just that, by showcasing how much the US government cares about their nation. Firefighters became heroes, troups were sent out to serve the bigger cause of securing the nation.

At the same time, it is really odd how all of this evidence against the government has leaked into the main stream media.
1) You're not telling me the US government is that insecure when it comes to such huge issues. How did all of this info leak?
2) How did all of these documentaries make their way through the usually heavily controlled media?

In other words... Are they consciously trying to make us feel oppressed? Are they consciously depicting themselves as our enemies right now? If so, there might be an extremely big scheme behind all this, and George W. Bush might not be the unintelligent president we usually make him out to be... And that means I really don't have any idea what the fuck they're doing in Iraq, but I know damn well the purpose isn't to create world peace or to secure oil fields for the brave American people.

[Noname]

America is never gonna 'win' or'succeed' in Iraq. Cuz these arent the type of people that bow down to a foreign goverment or country. Just read up on the history of the middle east.

[Sparegeez]

The Vietnam I mean the Iraqi war is still going on?

[Don Rizzle]

basically america can't win ideoligical wars iraq, vietnam and korea etc have proved this. dictators are easy to topple but if people really believe in something they will fight until the last man. americans and europeans too don't hold that same mentality and haven't since the second world war when our very survival depended on it

[virtuoso]

It was a resounding success because they have stirred up secterarian hatred which will ensure that the nation remains at one anothers throat thus weakening a perceived enemy in the long term. Plus this continuous cycle of violence reaps massive rewards for the military contactors and ensures that there is a further monopolising of the oil supply as recently Iraq announced it was completely opening up oil exploration to private corporations. Both military hawks and sympathetic journalists have never made any secret that they would like to see Iraq divided into three parts, the continuous bloodshed and mayhem creates the opportunity further into the future to do just that. If this was not enough, it was always america's intention to create permanent bases in Iraq, something like the creation of 8 huge military bases there, giving them a staging ground for attacking other milddle easter countries.

With respect, too many of you seem to view the war as a failure because it has not brought stability to the country and thousands of american soldiers are dying plus hatred for the U.S keeps growing exponentially. On the first point the war was never designed to bring stability for the reasons i have mentioned above, the deaths of thousands and the horrific injuries of tens of thousands of american soldiers, is also not a failure, the hardliners will insist that no war can be fought without casualties, essentially these guys are just lambs to the slaughter, there are plenty more to send and who naively believe they are fighting for a genuine goog cause. The surge in hatred is not going to bother those on hell bent on war and domination, they have no time for such sentiment. In fact they love to portray the muslims as the real enemies who are angry and dangerous and "who hate our freedoms" so it's perfect bait for them.

[Elevz]

With respect, too many of you seem to view the war as a failure because it has not brought stability to the country and thousands of american soldiers are dying plus hatred for the U.S keeps growing exponentially. On the first point the war was never designed to bring stability for the reasons i have mentioned above, the deaths of thousands and the horrific injuries of tens of thousands of american soldiers, is also not a failure, the hardliners will insist that no war can be fought without casualties, essentially these guys are just lambs to the slaughter, there are plenty more to send and who naively believe they are fighting for a genuine goog cause.

Who is to be blamed for that? I know belief is blind faith, but the people are simply misinformed. That goes for both frontline soldiers and dubcc posters. It might be ignorant to simply assume what you've been told is right, but how many soldiers out there care? They're simply making a living; most of them probably don't even care about the causes. They've been told they're morally doing a great job, so that plus their paycheck is enough to maintain the satisfied cannon fodder of the US.

Your post is insightful, however I do find it risky to simply make such assumptions. The logic behind your reasoning is evident, and I fear you're right. The risk behind such statements is however that they're only assumptions. We really don't know the true intentions of the US government (or at least, I don't. If you do, please shine a light on me), so I simply cannot blindly cosign your post.

[virtuoso]

The israeli Plan of 1985 looked at the possibility of breaking up Iraq into 3 parts but there wasn't the necessary support in Washington at the time to see such a move.
The Project for The New American Century said that America needed to "bring democracy" to the middle east and this would require the building of more permanent bases in Iraq
The Iraqi government within the last 6 weeks announced that the once nationalised oil industry would be totally opened up to private corporations who would get 90% of the profits in the short term, insisting that it was necessary in order to stimulate demand from the corporations.
The weapons sales, the mercs, the military contractors are obviously going to benefit from any quagmire
I agree with you most of the soldiers just assume they are fighting against some great evil, missing the bigger point that if america was attacked they themselves would be the insurgents fighting the invaders.
I have my suspicions that at least some of these acts of terrorism are being carried out by the intelligence services there are something like 100.000 mercenaries out there, for them this is not about morals it is about the dollar. A real example which reaises great suspicions about such clandestine operations happened only last year when 2 SAS soldiers were arrested by the Iraqi police having been caught dressed in arab clothing, attacking other Iraqi police. A raid was subsequently launched on the jail to free the captive SAS men but no questions were ever asked about what they were doing. I suspect they were carrying out slayings and then it would be reported that insurgents had been attacking Iraqi police and the police would then announce another crackdown on "insurgents"