Has rap music hit a wall?

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Rap music has just gotten to immature. Label's continually tried to cater to a wider, dumber, and younger catergraphic and it worked short term. But in the long run is killed/is killing them. Mainstream fans have no loyalty to hip-hop and it's showing. The dumbed down hip-hop to the point were most actual hip-hop fans wanted nothing to do with what they heard on the radio or what they saw on TV. A lot of them did like were doing and use the internet as a tool to find dope artists. But you wouldn't believe how many people I've met that say they stopped listening to hip-hop music because its wack and the only hip-hop they listen to anymore is the classics/old school. And sales are declining because of it (also illegal downloading, but that's a whole other discussion). Now label execs have to continue to try and commercialize rap out of desperation so that mainstream fans will still listen to it. At the same time, they want to spend as little money as possible on an artist, so creating pop songs to get radio play is another tool they try to use. It is working to some degree, but now sales are on the decline and more artists are going independent. Major labels are fucking themselves as they are making money.

The strategic plan is fatally flawed because the people in charge don't really understand what they're doing.  They're applying blanket business principals that in their mind should equal success.  But the thing that makes music universally appealling and transcendant of time / age / place is intangible.  It can only be done by those that have the gift for it, not for who has the best marketing plan.  And that's why the industry is by and large a joke and why it's failing.  The wrong people are in positions of power.

On point.

[QuietTruth]

Rap music has just gotten to immature. Label's continually tried to cater to a wider, dumber, and younger catergraphic and it worked short term.

That's cuz kids is runnin' the industry.

[NobodyButMe]

i dunno about yall homies but the older im getting the less rap i listen.Im pretty much almost done with rap its just to much bs that goes on with it and alot these new artist seem to sound alike rapping about their baller/pimp/grillz/Bitches/Money/Mafia.....

word.

[Diabolical]

  Mainstream media and labels seem to be only interested in telling one side of the story.

Same with everything.

[Blu Lacez]

And LMAO at David banners "positive" records about "Cadillac's on 22's" ... these guys are so fucking clueless.

You ever heard that song?  Here are the lyrics:

http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/d_banner/miss/cadion22.ban.txt

wOA!!!
Am diggin this!!

Tha lYrics are not bad..i gotta be honest, i was kinda expecting sum *ridin on Ma 22**..blah blah..blah..
But boy was i wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

Good looking out on clearing that up!!

[Narrator]

Your 1st paragraph was completely unrelated to anything in my post.  You must be lonely tonight and want some attention huh?

Considering you're the one who sounds pissed off about something in that post, I'd say that sentence was a bit of psychological projection right there.  If the 1st paragraph was unrelated, why did you respond to it?

I agree with some of the points you made, but since it's obviously that time of the month for you, I'll leave you alone to bleed.

[Turf Hitta]

" ..the negativity is just over the top now."

Is people startin' to get it?? Wowww.

That is true.  Hip-hop is definitely WAY more negative than it used to be.  That's my biggest problem with it.

10-15 years ago, it was pretty easy to dismiss rap critics like C. Delores Tucker as a bunch of stupid old folks who were just caught up in a generational gap...the old "parents just don't understand" adage.  But nowadays, let's face it - a lot of the most vehement criticism of hip-hop is coming from hip-hop fans and even rappers themselves.  Nas' "Hip-Hop Is Dead" is just the icing on the cake...it says a lot about a genre when its own fans and practioners are getting upset with it.

yeah its called "crunk" "bling bling" "iced out grills" "candy paint" BULLSHIT RADIO CLUB USIC!

fuckin sucks

Another suburban dumbass trying to pretend he knows what's up.  I haven't heard anyone say "bling bling" in a popular rap song in about 5 years now...have you?  Some of the most popular rappers on the radio right now are the "trap stars" like T.I. and Young Jeezy who brag about how coke they push and how "gutta" they are...which is exactly the opposite of the blinged-out shit.

Being "club" or "radio"-oriented isn't the problem.  Some of the best hip-hop (and the first hip-hop) ever made was radio/club-oriented and even materialistic...are you gonna tell me Run-DMC was bullshit cause they made a song called "My Adidas"?  The problem is how negative and repetitive hip-hop has become.  There's no room to be creative and have fun anymore, and that IS a result of the white devils sitting on the top pulling the strings.

nothing left to say after this post

[Shallow]

There is another side to the problem as far as lack of creativity is concerned than just the white "devils" who push to release the negative style. Chuck D brought this up once a while back; in the old days young rappers coming up were listening to various styles of music. Be it funk, soul, rock, blues, or jazz, they used these styles from songs that they loved and incorperated it into their own music. These days most the young rappers and producers only really know hip hop and dismiss most everything else outside of a catchy bass line or piano melody they want to sample. They have no real appreciation for other styles and don't understand them enough to really learn from them. A lot of that has to do with the supression of the artist at the street level. In the ghetto it's not so acceptable to embrace poetry or literature unless it's ghetto or ghetto-relatable. A lot of times it's not the artist in some of these young guys coming out. It's the front. The same front they put on in the streets to appease the mainstream thug population. The same front that leads them to spend more time battle rapping with gun and thug imagery than rapping introspective emotional testimonials. If that were to ever leave the rap scene on the street level then you'd get rappers coming out that have the confidence to be artistic and the appreciation of all art to know how to make good art. Otherwise the white CEOs could leave it alone completely and you'd still have a lack of creativity, or at least not nearly as much creativity as possible.

[M Dogg™]

There is another side to the problem as far as lack of creativity is concerned than just the white "devils" who push to release the negative style. Chuck D brought this up once a while back; in the old days young rappers coming up were listening to various styles of music. Be it funk, soul, rock, blues, or jazz, they used these styles from songs that they loved and incorperated it into their own music. These days most the young rappers and producers only really know hip hop and dismiss most everything else outside of a catchy bass line or piano melody they want to sample. They have no real appreciation for other styles and don't understand them enough to really learn from them. A lot of that has to do with the supression of the artist at the street level. In the ghetto it's not so acceptable to embrace poetry or literature unless it's ghetto or ghetto-relatable. A lot of times it's not the artist in some of these young guys coming out. It's the front. The same front they put on in the streets to appease the mainstream thug population. The same front that leads them to spend more time battle rapping with gun and thug imagery than rapping introspective emotional testimonials. If that were to ever leave the rap scene on the street level then you'd get rappers coming out that have the confidence to be artistic and the appreciation of all art to know how to make good art. Otherwise the white CEOs could leave it alone completely and you'd still have a lack of creativity, or at least not nearly as much creativity as possible.

I never thought of this, but your right. Back in early 90's, the west was sampling different music like Roger and Zapp, and Parliment/Funkadelic, where as the East was sampling more James Brown, and the south had the whole Miami bass going. Over time ,their sounds in each region all seemed to start sounding the same. It started in the mid-90's, listen to Makaveli and Life After Death, production was pretty simular. But even then, Hip-Hop was still ok. It's the fact that many younger rappers have no musical diversity in terms of lyrical content. They didn't hear songs about protest in the 60's and 70's, shit, they don't even remember Public Enemy and NWA of the 80's. To them, Biggie's and Jay-Z's crack rap, and the thug image of 2Pac and Snoop's gangsta rap are what this generation idolized. Instead of building on Hip-Hop, they build on the the streets. Hip-Hop is expression from the streets, and it was originally party music. It is true that Nelly's Air Force 1's is as Hip-Hop as Run-DMC's My Addidas, but at the same time, there is no tracks out there to balence it out. KRS-One said that commercial rap is needed, it's good for the music, but there has to be a balence. The balence has been off since 2004. Before that, it was pretty bad, but I haven't felt that Hip-Hop was alive since College Dropout. That's the last Hip-Hop album out since this winter brought us Nas and Game. I do think that this discusion though is good, as it's forcing Hip-Hop to look inside, and figure out what side it will go.

On a side note, I still think Hip-Hop is more bought than dead. Large labels still decide what is released, as oppose to the 80's, early 90's when most Hip-Hop was released on independed labels.

[XaNdEr]

and i cant believe you take this guerilla dude, aka whiteboy with selfcomplex, so seriously. do you really think it is white people who are messing up hiphop? do you really think that white people make rappers make their cd's as they are now? do you think they write their raps?

lol @ you. white people are only in "higher" ranks in the record industry since rapping isnt an option for them. hiphop is becoming more and more an universal music style, with all cultures and races participating, which i can only encourage, since its a good thing against discrimination and so on.

but back when the biggest labels were formed, did you see a eminem rap? a bubba sparxx? hell no, there was maybe 2 or 3 white people who were known in the mainstream. back then white people werent really accepted as rappers, since it was "black music". so as a white person interested in hiphop what would you do? not rap, but at least do something related to rap, so it leads to those functions they have now, as ceo's and managers.

you cant blame a "race" for fucking up music, that shows how limited your brain is guerilla. you cant think outside the box, in this case the box is your racial thoughts, so you start babbling stuff without having anything to back it up.

even IF a (white) ceo would say "you go make that sorta music on this album cause its popular right now and were gonna sell loads more with this, so you go make this". A rapper has 2 choices, either he's gonna make his own music no matter what hes been told (like immortal technique for example) or hes gonna follow the ceo (busta rhymes for example) and make money of it. see in the end its all about the money, always has been, always will be. but the point is that you have to find a balance between earning your loan and contribute to hiphop, since picking just one side isnt really gonna be positive for you.

and the rapper who picks the ceo's choice is just as bad, since he does it for the money as well, so blaming ceo's is kinda lame too. no matter if theyre black, white, yellow, green or red. in the end the rapper makes his album so HE himself should be judged by it, if he only follows the ceo on what to do, then sorry but youre not a real man (let alone a rapper).

so yeah. blaming "white people" for today's hiphop is kinda stupid, and doing that just makes you seem ignorant, but ill leave you with the thoughts that youre a "god" and im a "cracker", but i must point out 1 thing tho, a god doesnt discriminate, he takes very piece of mankind as his own son, which i dont see you doing, so im sure in your religion a god is not like this, i have been thought he is tho, so yeah....

[M Dogg™]

and i cant believe you take this guerilla dude, aka whiteboy with selfcomplex, so seriously. do you really think it is white people who are messing up hiphop? do you really think that white people make rappers make their cd's as they are now? do you think they write their raps?

lol @ you. white people are only in "higher" ranks in the record industry since rapping isnt an option for them. hiphop is becoming more and more an universal music style, with all cultures and races participating, which i can only encourage, since its a good thing against discrimination and so on.

but back when the biggest labels were formed, did you see a eminem rap? a bubba sparxx? hell no, there was maybe 2 or 3 white people who were known in the mainstream. back then white people werent really accepted as rappers, since it was "black music". so as a white person interested in hiphop what would you do? not rap, but at least do something related to rap, so it leads to those functions they have now, as ceo's and managers.

you cant blame a "race" for fucking up music, that shows how limited your brain is guerilla. you cant think outside the box, in this case the box is your racial thoughts, so you start babbling stuff without having anything to back it up.

even IF a (white) ceo would say "you go make that sorta music on this album cause its popular right now and were gonna sell loads more with this, so you go make this". A rapper has 2 choices, either he's gonna make his own music no matter what hes been told (like immortal technique for example) or hes gonna follow the ceo (busta rhymes for example) and make money of it. see in the end its all about the money, always has been, always will be. but the point is that you have to find a balance between earning your loan and contribute to hiphop, since picking just one side isnt really gonna be positive for you.

and the rapper who picks the ceo's choice is just as bad, since he does it for the money as well, so blaming ceo's is kinda lame too. no matter if theyre black, white, yellow, green or red. in the end the rapper makes his album so HE himself should be judged by it, if he only follows the ceo on what to do, then sorry but youre not a real man (let alone a rapper).

so yeah. blaming "white people" for today's hiphop is kinda stupid, and doing that just makes you seem ignorant, but ill leave you with the thoughts that youre a "god" and im a "cracker", but i must point out 1 thing tho, a god doesnt discriminate, he takes very piece of mankind as his own son, which i dont see you doing, so im sure in your religion a god is not like this, i have been thought he is tho, so yeah....

it's not the race dogg... it's the MONEY that's killing HipHop

[XaNdEr]

i was talking to the "cracker-hater" guerilla, and yeah i agree, the money is killing it, but its kinda ironic, cuz without the money hiphop wouldnt be as big as it is nowadays....

[M Dogg™]

i was talking to the "cracker-hater" guerilla, and yeah i agree, the money is killing it, but its kinda ironic, cuz without the money hiphop wouldnt be as big as it is nowadays....

the funny thing is money is something that can be used for good, but too much will currupt anything.

Hip-Hop wanted to gain money to spread the culture. The peak was the early 90's, as Def Jam was still independent, Death Row, Ruthless, Bad Boy, Priority, No Limit, Tommy Boy, Jive were all major independent labels, and once those labels began merging with the 5 major labels, Hip-Hop began to become watered down, highlighted when Def Jam went under the Sony's control. Russell Simmons in now a VERY rich man, but in the big picture, that move did more to sell out Hip-Hop than any other label. I think the falling of MCA shortly after signing a distrubtion deal with Rawkus, and Loud's falling was the sign that raw underground Hip-Hop was too risky, and major labels began putting out radio friendly music. Interscope gave the Black Eye Peas Fergie, and other labels began following a formula. All this for money. And they found artist that would agree with this.

The weird thing is that the south has many independent act, yet, they put out as much harmful music to Hip-Hop as the major labels. This comes from the current generation taking from the mid 90's, instead of the message, they took the surface. Jay-Z, 2Pac, Biggie, Nas, Snoop, they all spoke on some real shit, and next generation took the message as the thug message. 2Pac spoke his feelings, and the next generation took his thug appeal, Biggie spoke on struggles, the next generation took chopping rocks, Jigga spoke on the hustle, the next generation took the money, Nas spoke on street stories, the next generation took the gun clapping, Snoop spoke on his stories of bitches who cheated and what not, the next generation took that all woman are bitches and hoes. Artist like Ice Cube and Public Enemy, who were the biggest acts of the late 80's, early 90's, now are forgotten. They are side notes. The next generation took from those that they idolized, but misrepresented the message. And now radio is larger than ever, they dictate what the public hears, and instead of putting out some good independent music, and you know independent labels ship them the singles because as a college radio director, you heard everything (that's how I heard singles off Thy Kingdom Come back in the day) so you can imagion what gets sent to Hot 97 and Power 106. But radio filters it, even chosing to keep out good mainstream music, in favor of different remakes of Lean Back, we had Shoulder Lean, and now Fat Joes new track. In the 80's and 90's, Hip-Hop was diverse. In LA, you'd hear Mass Appeal, Nuthin' But A G Thang, Slam, Cool Like That, and Insane in the Brain back to back. Labels and Radio have found out what sells now, and it's ruining Hip-Hop.

[SGV]

What's funny is pretty much everyone they spoke with was in their 30s. They were into Hip Hop during some of its most violent and sexual times with acts like 2 Live Crew, Snoop, N.W.A., Too Short, Ice T, Geto Boys etc. This era had dances like the Tootsie Roll, The Train, Da Dip, all that shit. So why is it an issue now? Probably because these old bastards are no longer "hip" enough to relate to it. They're  upset cuz their artists are no longer relevant in Hip Hop anymore. Shits tired already. Why not interview some 20 something fans of Hip Hop? LMAO@ Only interviewing cats who think as one sided as the reporter himself.

[M Dogg™]

What's funny is pretty much everyone they spoke with was in their 30s. They were into Hip Hop during some of its most violent and sexual times with acts like 2 Live Crew, Snoop, N.W.A., Too Short, Ice T, Geto Boys etc. This era had dances like the Tootsie Roll, The Train, Da Dip, all that shit. So why is it an issue now? Probably because these old bastards are no longer "hip" enough to relate to it. They're  upset cuz their artists are no longer relevant in Hip Hop anymore. Shits tired already. Why not interview some 20 something fans of Hip Hop? LMAO@ Only interviewing cats who think as one sided as the reporter himself.

it's not the content really, it's the lack of diversity. I'm in my 20's, and I think that the diversity in Hip-Hop is gone, regional sounds now blended together and one universal sound, creativity gone, and the same rematch of Lean Back is on the radio 24/7. I was cool with Tooties Roll, Da Dip, gangsta rap like NWA, but not everyone has to be like that. In the old say days, you couldn't speak on street shit or the streets would pull you ghetto card. Now Hip-Hop is bought, sold and currupted. Not saying the shit on the radio ain't hot, there's a reason it's selling. But Public Enemy was the biggest sellers on the late 80's, 2Pac's Me Against the World was double platinum before his death, ah hell, Kanye West had a mainly positive message on College Dropout (I'm saying it's positive 'cause how many innercity kids even graduate high school, speaking on college is HUGE good or bad) and he went 3 times platinum just 3 years ago, and his still a top selling artist. We can have our Shoulder Leans, and our Lean Wit' It, but having Jesus Walks on the radio isn't bad either.