Has rap music hit a wall?

[Shallow]

What's funny is pretty much everyone they spoke with was in their 30s. They were into Hip Hop during some of its most violent and sexual times with acts like 2 Live Crew, Snoop, N.W.A., Too Short, Ice T, Geto Boys etc. This era had dances like the Tootsie Roll, The Train, Da Dip, all that shit. So why is it an issue now? Probably because these old bastards are no longer "hip" enough to relate to it. They're  upset cuz their artists are no longer relevant in Hip Hop anymore. Shits tired already. Why not interview some 20 something fans of Hip Hop? LMAO@ Only interviewing cats who think as one sided as the reporter himself.

I also don't get people that talk about how it's more negative these days. Parts of the Chronic were just as bad as anything by 50 or Dipset as far as negativity goes. Dog Food was as shameless and shameful display of misogyny as anything out today. And it wasn't just these few records. It was all over the place. Every Deathrow record was filled with it. Wu Tang's 36 Chambers. Biggie's Ready To Die. CNN's The War Report. Mobb Deep, Scarface. Onyx. Jay Z. Warren G and Nate Dog. Even Nas's "smart' rap was filled with it. The difference was all these big acts sounded fresh at the time. They were no less mature in any aspects but it was a new sound and a new style to the common ear. These days every record just sounds like second rate versions of the mid 90s. I'll be honest, if I had come up as a teen in the 80s and hit my 20s in the early 90s I'd probably rag on this stuff just as much then as I do now. It's very simple. The music is vastly immature and meant for teenagers more often than not, and that has nothing to do with whoever the CEOs are because it was the same before it became such a big industry.

The reason the music is going to die in the mainstream is the same reason that Elvis and Chuck Berry style rock and roll got trampled by Beatles and Rolling Stones British Invasion rock and roll in the early to mid 60s. The next generation of teens will not want to listen to what the last generation of teens listened to and they'll want to be as far away from what their parents listened to as possible. Eventually elements come back around. Rap as we know it will die out in the mainstream and something will take it's place. Rap can come back with a new sound and style and even be the next main attraction but it will sound different. Elements of hip hop will always be present in some way shape or form in pop music just like distortion in a guitar, or screaming the lyrics will always have a place in the mainstream, but you'll never see the same sound dominate two generations of teenagers. It just won't happen. 14 and 15 year olds remember what was like  when they were 9 and 10 and not allowed to be included in it by their older brother, sisters, or cousins, and they don't seem to want it as much at 14 as they did at 9. I'm not going to go into the possible psycholigical reasons because I'm not qualified in that field, but I don't have to study psychology to notice a continuous trend.

Backstreet Boys, N'Synch, and Britney didn't sound like New Kids on the Block and Tiffany. Bye Bye Bye and Gone wouldn't have made much impact in 89. They would have to have been reproduced and rewritten in parts. Smells Like Teen Spirit wouldn't have meant much in '85. Again it would have to be re-produced ad re-written. Of course the new sound could already be here today and and we just haven't heard it yet in the mainstream. The Pixies Surfer Rosa and Doolittle were more or less underground albums but if they were released in '91 or '92 when Hair Metal was being pushed out the door by the new teens then Debaser would have been as big as Lithium and Evenflow. Just a couple years can make a huge difference.

[Narrator]

and i cant believe you take this guerilla dude, aka whiteboy with selfcomplex, so seriously. do you really think it is white people who are messing up hiphop? do you really think that white people make rappers make their cd's as they are now? do you think they write their raps?

lol @ you. white people are only in "higher" ranks in the record industry since rapping isnt an option for them. hiphop is becoming more and more an universal music style, with all cultures and races participating, which i can only encourage, since its a good thing against discrimination and so on.

but back when the biggest labels were formed, did you see a eminem rap? a bubba sparxx? hell no, there was maybe 2 or 3 white people who were known in the mainstream. back then white people werent really accepted as rappers, since it was "black music". so as a white person interested in hiphop what would you do? not rap, but at least do something related to rap, so it leads to those functions they have now, as ceo's and managers.

you cant blame a "race" for fucking up music, that shows how limited your brain is guerilla. you cant think outside the box, in this case the box is your racial thoughts, so you start babbling stuff without having anything to back it up.

even IF a (white) ceo would say "you go make that sorta music on this album cause its popular right now and were gonna sell loads more with this, so you go make this". A rapper has 2 choices, either he's gonna make his own music no matter what hes been told (like immortal technique for example) or hes gonna follow the ceo (busta rhymes for example) and make money of it. see in the end its all about the money, always has been, always will be. but the point is that you have to find a balance between earning your loan and contribute to hiphop, since picking just one side isnt really gonna be positive for you.

and the rapper who picks the ceo's choice is just as bad, since he does it for the money as well, so blaming ceo's is kinda lame too. no matter if theyre black, white, yellow, green or red. in the end the rapper makes his album so HE himself should be judged by it, if he only follows the ceo on what to do, then sorry but youre not a real man (let alone a rapper).

so yeah. blaming "white people" for today's hiphop is kinda stupid, and doing that just makes you seem ignorant, but ill leave you with the thoughts that youre a "god" and im a "cracker", but i must point out 1 thing tho, a god doesnt discriminate, he takes very piece of mankind as his own son, which i dont see you doing, so im sure in your religion a god is not like this, i have been thought he is tho, so yeah....

Nope, wrong.  Hip-hop started becoming the way it is today when white kids started buying it in large numbers.  M Dogg says it's money that fucked up the game.  True that, but there wouldn't be so much money in hip-hop if it wasn't WHITE KIDS that bought hip-hop in such enormous numbers.

When I was 15, it was possible for intelligent acts like PM Dawn or Arrested Development to top the charts just as easily as Ice Cube or Scarface.  That's what's different, and it's largely because there were too many white kids buying "The Chronic" and "Doggystyle" and forgetting about PE or Tribe, so shit went down.

So, no, it is still very much the cracker's fault.  Which is yet another reason I will have to kill them all come the revolution.

What's funny is pretty much everyone they spoke with was in their 30s. They were into Hip Hop during some of its most violent and sexual times with acts like 2 Live Crew, Snoop, N.W.A., Too Short, Ice T, Geto Boys etc. This era had dances like the Tootsie Roll, The Train, Da Dip, all that shit. So why is it an issue now? Probably because these old bastards are no longer "hip" enough to relate to it. They're  upset cuz their artists are no longer relevant in Hip Hop anymore. Shits tired already. Why not interview some 20 something fans of Hip Hop? LMAO@ Only interviewing cats who think as one sided as the reporter himself.

I also don't get people that talk about how it's more negative these days. Parts of the Chronic were just as bad as anything by 50 or Dipset as far as negativity goes. Dog Food was as shameless and shameful display of misogyny as anything out today. And it wasn't just these few records. It was all over the place. Every Deathrow record was filled with it. Wu Tang's 36 Chambers. Biggie's Ready To Die. CNN's The War Report. Mobb Deep, Scarface. Onyx. Jay Z. Warren G and Nate Dog. Even Nas's "smart' rap was filled with it. The difference was all these big acts sounded fresh at the time. They were no less mature in any aspects but it was a new sound and a new style to the common ear. These days every record just sounds like second rate versions of the mid 90s. I'll be honest, if I had come up as a teen in the 80s and hit my 20s in the early 90s I'd probably rag on this stuff just as much then as I do now. It's very simple. The music is vastly immature and meant for teenagers more often than not, and that has nothing to do with whoever the CEOs are because it was the same before it became such a big industry.

I'm not talking about the mid-90s.  Yes, the whole gangsta/thug movement was already in full muh'fuckin eff-iz-ect by then.  I'm talking earlier, as in the pre-"Chronic" days.  See above.

When I say "more negativity", it's less in the individual music so much as the over-saturation of them.  There are far more thugs, pimps, playas, whatever now than there were about 15-20 years ago.  That is incontovertible fact.

[Shallow]

I was responding to what SGV said, not what you said, but let's take a look at what you said;

That is true.  Hip-hop is definitely WAY more negative than it used to be.  That's my biggest problem with it.

10-15 years ago, it was pretty easy to dismiss rap critics like C. Delores Tucker as a bunch of stupid old folks who were just caught up in a generational gap...the old "parents just don't understand" adage.  But nowadays, let's face it - a lot of the most vehement criticism of hip-hop is coming from hip-hop fans and even rappers themselves.  Nas' "Hip-Hop Is Dead" is just the icing on the cake...it says a lot about a genre when its own fans and practioners are getting upset with it.

10-15 years ago means between '92 and '97. Then you mentioned Tucker who didn't start jumping on rap until after Chronic. Where did you specify the pre-chronic era? Tucker was right, and if were old enough back then I would have agreed with her instead of thinking of her as a bitch.

[gav09]

I think that the main problem Hip-Hop faces is that ppl feel they hav heard it all b4.

Back in the day with ppl like Grandmaster Flash and the furious 5, they woz talkin about partyin and havin fun, then hip-hop evolved 2 ppl talkin more about their lives and wot they seen, then there woz gangsta rap with NWA, Eazy, Ice-T etc. etc. talkin bout the gangsta lifestyle.

Obv. more stuff than I mentioned there has been rapped bout, but my point is that the majority of what is bein released these days is a repeat of what has already been heard. The stuff bein released now, most of what they sayin has been said by ppl like NWA, Run DMC, KRS-1, 2Pac, Ice-T, Ice Cube, LL Cool J, Wu-Tang and so on and so on.....

It takes sum1 real innovative 2 make a huge impact in the hip-hop world now. Nas, Jay-Z, 50 Cent & G-Unit, Eminem, Ludacris, Lil Jon etc. they all made huge impacts wen they 1st dropped, but its hard 2 make that same impact for the 2nd time.

I aint sayin they all fell off, cos they havent, I'm just sayin that out of the 5-7 million or so that bought their albums at the time of they first album, only a fraction of those ppl will buy their other albums and people look at that as a disappointment.

For people 2 still get them fuckin huge sales they need to b able 2 maintain the buzz or adapt their styles 2 wot ppl want 2 hear.

Dre always manages 2 sell well cos hes a fuckin dope producer and always add different elements 2 his tracks 2 make everybody bounce their head 2 it.

Timbaland adapted his style, branched out a bit more and worked with ppl like Nelly Furtado & JT 2 maintain high sales. Pharrell/Neptunes are the same.

Em always does tracks that no1 else cud or wud make to keep ppl interested.

Snoop managed 2 maintain his original style and adapt 2 wot ppl want 2 hear by workin with diff. ppl and managed 2 stay on top of the game for like 13+years.


Hip-Hop hasnt hit a wall, but it will if more ppl dont step up their game and come with some original shit that ppl aint heard b4!

[Narrator]

I was responding to what SGV said, not what you said, but let's take a look at what you said;

That is true.  Hip-hop is definitely WAY more negative than it used to be.  That's my biggest problem with it.

10-15 years ago, it was pretty easy to dismiss rap critics like C. Delores Tucker as a bunch of stupid old folks who were just caught up in a generational gap...the old "parents just don't understand" adage.  But nowadays, let's face it - a lot of the most vehement criticism of hip-hop is coming from hip-hop fans and even rappers themselves.  Nas' "Hip-Hop Is Dead" is just the icing on the cake...it says a lot about a genre when its own fans and practioners are getting upset with it.

10-15 years ago means between '92 and '97. Then you mentioned Tucker who didn't start jumping on rap until after Chronic. Where did you specify the pre-chronic era? Tucker was right, and if were old enough back then I would have agreed with her instead of thinking of her as a bitch.

Just cause I said that in reference to critics of rap doesn't mean I think that particular era represents the ideal.  I have said many times (not in this topic necessarily) that the pre-"Chronic" era (1992 and earlier) represented the better days.

Tucker was still a bitch.  If I didn't give her permission, she's not allowed to do what she did.

[Z the laidback Virus]

Does this thread have to involve racism though?

Not to turn this into a thread that belongs in Train of Thought BUT...........if you wish death on people because their ancestors held yours as slaves, which is something neither party can now change anything about or is now responsible for, YOU are the devil.........not said people. You are hypocritical and the terrible part is that you don't see it yourself, considering your opinion and cause as valid and righteous as the Taliban consider theirs.

[Narrator]

Does this thread have to involve racism though?

Not to turn this into a thread that belongs in Train of Thought BUT...........if you wish death on people because their ancestors held yours as slaves, which is something neither party can now change anything about or is now responsible for, YOU are the devil.........not said people. You are hypocritical and the terrible part is that you don't see it yourself, considering your opinion and cause as valid and righteous as the Taliban consider theirs.

Well, somebody's gotta take the fall for it.  You crackers seem good enough to me.  I give a fuck what you think, tho.  The only thing that matters is that come Judgment Day, you're all gonna die at the hands of niggas with automatic choppers.

[XaNdEr]

lol @ this guerilla cat, time and time again he shows he has so much anger and hate inside him....what happened? did your daddy slapped your ass when you was a lil kiddo (no homo) or did your teddybear got stuck in a tree?

damn this dude got a serious trauma 

[Z the laidback Virus]

Does this thread have to involve racism though?

Not to turn this into a thread that belongs in Train of Thought BUT...........if you wish death on people because their ancestors held yours as slaves, which is something neither party can now change anything about or is now responsible for, YOU are the devil.........not said people. You are hypocritical and the terrible part is that you don't see it yourself, considering your opinion and cause as valid and righteous as the Taliban consider theirs.

Well, somebody's gotta take the fall for it.  You crackers seem good enough to me.  I give a fuck what you think, tho.  The only thing that matters is that come Judgment Day, you're all gonna die at the hands of niggas with automatic choppers.

Have a nice wait, because Judgement Day will never happen. And if it does, you hateful person, you'll find yourself being judged in a way that will seriously displeasure you.

[Narrator]

lol @ this guerilla cat, time and time again he shows he has so much anger and hate inside him....what happened? did your daddy slapped your ass when you was a lil kiddo (no homo) or did your teddybear got stuck in a tree?

damn this dude got a serious trauma 

Nope.  I am simply enlightened as to the evil nature of the devil, and as a Poor Righteous Teacher, I am on a mission to cleanse the Earth of crackers so that the Original Man can reign once again.  Any nigga who becomes enlightened realizes that killing crackers is what real niggas are SUPPOSED to do.

Have a nice wait, because Judgement Day will never happen. And if it does, you hateful person, you'll find yourself being judged in a way that will seriously displeasure you.

Oh, it WILL happen, lil homie, don't you worry 'bout that.  And when it does, I will be fulfilling the prophecy, for I am carrying out the will of Allah...it is you and the other crackers like you that will find yourself being judged as fit to burn in hell for eternity.

[Z the laidback Virus]

You are one hateful, pathetic piece of mental retardation. You do not realise your own hypocrisy. I won't go into your religious beliefs, because that is an endless discussion, but I repeat there won't ever be a Judgement Day and if there is going to be one, you won't be among the positively rewarded.

By the way, has it occurred to you that you are talking a white language and probably living a pleasant, pampered life in a country that has the possibility to live such a life mainly because of the efforts of white people? You will probably now try to think of just how bad your country is and how much better a black fundamentalist-dominated state would be, but:

If you are so hateful of us you should really go back to your roots and emigrate to an African country. You'll find out just how pleasant those countries are....I hope for you that you'll bring your machete and your condoms.

Or better still, get yourself a bomb, tie it to your body and blow yourself up...a way to go out that seems to be popular with islamic extremists.You can be proud of yourself at the moment you push the button that says 'Do not push this button before you are among infidels'.

It is not the entirety of white people that are what's wrong with everything, it is people with your mindset, wether they be white, black, yellow, purple, green or whatever. You may find that I am a devil, just because my set of genes (which are a natural thing, not a creation of Allah or any other god, yes god without a capital letter) dictates that I'm a white person but you are the one that holds devilish opinions as to how people should be treated, not me. If people like you are the ones that go to heaven (to play along with your fictional world) I'd rather go to hell and many people with me, I'm sure.




Now go find yourself a new favorite site run by extremist black people to feed your feelings of hate and to further convince yourself of your own righteousness.

[Narrator]

If you are so hateful of us you should really go back to your roots and emigrate to an African country. You'll find out just how pleasant those countries are....I hope for you that you'll bring your machete and your condoms.

But I don't want to do that.  Instead, I want to kill all white people and take over THIS country as punishment for what the crackers did 200 years ago.  Nothing less.

Or better still, get yourself a bomb, tie it to your body and blow yourself up...a way to go out that seems to be popular with islamic extremists.You can be proud of yourself at the moment you push the button that says 'Do not push this button before you are among infidels'.

I'm not a Muslim, at least not as most Muslims define themselves.  Islam promotes the idea of unification and "submission to the creator".  Those towelheads don't understand that Allah wants me to kill all crackers, not live in submission to the creator with them.  No peace...fuck whitey.

[Z the laidback Virus]

Seriously, teaching apes sign language is easier then getting some sense into your skull.

I give up, I recognise a lost cause when I see one.

[LyRiCaL_G]

 

No peace...fuck whitey.

LMAO

[Narrator]

Seriously, teaching apes sign language is easier then getting some sense into your skull.

I give up, I recognise a lost cause when I see one.

Cool.  You're still gonna die come Judgment Day.