Shock Value sucks

[LyRiCaL_G]

Uh, I just so happen to have won the debating championship at the university just last week. I'm in an indestructable mood, so come and try me

Wouldn't that be kinda unfair though, to have three people getting at poor TTK?

nah, it wouldn't be all of us against one person. there'd be different debates. we'd pair up. i agree with timbo on some stuff, just like I disagree with him on some stuff. but you know as well as the next man that you gotta be able to play devil's advocate. that's actually what I do for the most part here, hence my karma

-T

yeah man, why is your karma so low, u seem like a cool dude, u obviously know your music n whatever, people jus hatin?

-i ask alot of questions
-not only do I avoid dissing people, I intervene when other people are dissing each other. i should stop that i suppose.
-I am into a gang of different shit, and don't believe that hip hop is the best/only real genre and that's the perspective I come from and people don't like that
-I'm a hippie and people watch too much south park

i think those are the main reasons additional to me constantly playing devils advocate

-T

hahaha, thats some funny shit....could be true you never know, but it would be funny if someone kept dissin you simply because you had alot of question!

[Elevz]

Oh, I'm sorry for explaining myself to you. In the future, I might as well let you go ahead and spread false assumptions around. Just remember, I'm not the first one on my hind legs, trying to defend Timbaland from people who don't automatically like everything he puts out, trying to discredit the 'haters'. That's you.
All that I'm doing here, is trying to talk some sense in you. Yrying to show you I just want to have my opinion respected, instead of being labelled as "ignorant backpacker bullshit - doesn't know what he's talking about - dismissed".

Get your facts straight, maybe then we'll jump into another fair discussion, but this shit you're pulling now is a no-no.

[Meho]

Oh, I'm sorry for explaining myself to you. In the future, I might as well let you go ahead and spread false assumptions around. Just remember, I'm not the first one on my hind legs, trying to defend Timbaland from people who don't automatically like everything he puts out, trying to discredit the 'haters'. That's you.
All that I'm doing here, is trying to talk some sense in you. Yrying to show you I just want to have my opinion respected, instead of being labelled as "ignorant backpacker bullshit - doesn't know what he's talking about - dismissed".

Get your facts straight, maybe then we'll jump into another fair discussion, but this shit you're pulling now is a no-no.

Hold on now, your eating your own words. It was you that attacked me for making a fuss about this, I simply pointed out that your writting an "essay" on this topic.

Yrying to show you I just want to have my opinion respected,

Cmon man, we've known each other for a while now throught this internet thing and you should know by now that I do respect your opionion, taste in music... and I hope its vice versa.

instead of being labelled as "ignorant backpacker bullshit - doesn't know what he's talking about - dismissed".

You said that, I have never.

[Tanjential]

ttk, I don't think elevz is saying he prefers mediocre rhymes. he means though jay z or snoop may be doper than magoo, magoo suits timbo's music more.


anyway, lyrical g, i think it's funny too but I see dudes flip out and get pissed about it all the time.
-T

[Elevz]

ttk, I don't think elevz is saying he prefers mediocre rhymes. he means though jay z or snoop may be doper than magoo, magoo suits timbo's music more.

Why do I need a fucking essay to say something you manage to put in five words? ...lol props

Same to TTK: there's just no point, so props: we're cool!

[LyRiCaL_G]

nas>lyricist than snoop.....but give me a snoop/dre album anyday over a nas/dre album....i see where elevz is coming from, but timbo makes some points too.......everyone be droppin some hella heated in depth debates on this forum recently!

haha

props muthafuckaz

SeeEEEEEEEn tWeEEEeEN nIgGGaZ

[Tanjential]

nas>lyricist than snoop.....but give me a snoop/dre album anyday over a nas/dre album....i see where elevz is coming from, but timbo makes some points too.......everyone be droppin some hella heated in depth debates on this forum recently!

haha

props muthafuckaz

SeeEEEEEEEn tWeEEEeEN nIgGGaZ

hm, dre/nas record would be as dope as a snoop/dre record but for completely different reasons imo. but i definitely see what you're saying.

-T

[Sanford - V. President of the Dangerous Crew Movement]

people subconsciously associated the detox hype with the timbo album...maybe because Timbo's been killin it lately, a producers album with many features, or people got tired of waiting on critiquing Detox... so they just used those expectations of Detox to measure Timbos album by, imo.

just an idea for concern.   

[Tanjential]

people subconsciously associated the detox hype with the timbo album...maybe because Timbo's been killin it lately, a producers album with many features, or people got tired of waiting on critiquing Detox... so they just used those expectations of Detox to measure Timbos album by, imo.

just an idea for concern.   

Uh, I see where you're coming from but nah, I listened to 3/4 of this timbo album last night and every song I heard is more than listenable but that's it. on a musical level nothing grabs or engages, or even addicts. just playable, danceable, listenable-not exceptional.

the first song is really dope though. will add more to my opinion when I've heard whole thing. i have a feeling elton john will be dope

-T

[proverbs aka DD]

Oh, I'm sorry for explaining myself to you. In the future, I might as well let you go ahead and spread false assumptions around. Just remember, I'm not the first one on my hind legs, trying to defend Timbaland from people who don't automatically like everything he puts out, trying to discredit the 'haters'. That's you.
All that I'm doing here, is trying to talk some sense in you. Yrying to show you I just want to have my opinion respected, instead of being labelled as "ignorant backpacker bullshit - doesn't know what he's talking about - dismissed".

Get your facts straight, maybe then we'll jump into another fair discussion, but this shit you're pulling now is a no-no.

no offense and all, but i was reading your post..

why do you care if jay-z or snoop charge higher than magoo and sebastian? Timbo has the bank account. He gets a half mil per track.

And I honestly think you're wrong when it comes to their egos.. Snoop and Jay-Z both participated in the last Dr Dre album which is similar to Timbaland's album.. So they both have the ability to play small roles to a 'producer' album.

And just like Timbaland says in that song "I'm a producer.. youre just a piano man".. what Timbo is saying that he does more than just make beats and melodies.. He has an ear for the sound which includes the beats, melodies, the lyrics and the hooks. I think you have this idea that Timbaland just creates beats and then calls Jay-Z and says "hey, come rip this beat for me... Magoo can't flow like you".. Truth of the matter he has decides what lyrics and flows are to be on the album.. So if he wants a Snoop verse to outshine the beat, then that is 100% Timbaland's doing and creation. Which is the reason he said he was disappointed with the Jay-Z track not being ready for the album. It's not like he didnt have a jay-z verse, the verse wasn't done in the manner that Timbo wanted it to be to be finalized for the album.

On another note, i don't know how well Producer albums do without a constant circle of artists working with them. Dre had Eminem, Xzibit, Mel Man, Hittman in the studio with him for almost every track on Dre 2001. He had Snoop, Kurupt, Daz, J-Flexx, DOC etc in the studio with him every track for The Chronic.. Timbo has Danja but it would of been nice if he had some inhouse rappers and musicians to imulate the sound for the 'big names'.. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. None of us were in the studio. 

[Elevz]

no offense and all

That's +1 already

why do you care if jay-z or snoop charge higher than magoo and sebastian? Timbo has the bank account. He gets a half mil per track.

It's not so much the money that I care about. If Timbaland could make a track better by putting a verse from an 'expensive rapper' on there, that's excellent. Bless him if he pulls out his wallet and goes to get that rapper for a hot 16!

And I honestly think you're wrong when it comes to their egos.. Snoop and Jay-Z both participated in the last Dr Dre album which is similar to Timbaland's album.. So they both have the ability to play small roles to a 'producer' album.

Also, it's not so much their ego's that's a possible problem to me. As long as they get paid, and as long as they're involved in huge projects, Snoop and jay will be good. I'm talking about a distinct difference in sound though...

Timmy's whole style used to be about making laid back, cool music. Nothing too hype - just really cool music. Back then, Dre's banger-style music was perfectly made for Snoop and Jay's work, but I don't think any Snoop verse around that time (1999) would have sounded as good on a Timbaland album as it did on 2001. That's not even necessarily because Dre was so far ahead of Timbaland, but the music was just different. Its not even about how big a rapper is - it's just the way these styles merge.

2007 is a different story though, because Timbaland seems to have lost that ambience he once had in his music. Him and Dre now both have evolved to a more universal sound, and the two are more comparable now. But we also remember the way Jay and Snoop sounded over Dre's latest beats, which by general consensus wasn't as impressive as it once would have been. On the other hand, Magoo, Attitude and Sebastian have never sounded bad on a Timbaland beat. Not until now. Have Dr. Dre and Timbaland outgrown their rappers? That's far from impossible. The rap in (popular?) hip-hop seems to be gone.

And just like Timbaland says in that song "I'm a producer.. youre just a piano man".. what Timbo is saying that he does more than just make beats and melodies.. He has an ear for the sound which includes the beats, melodies, the lyrics and the hooks. I think you have this idea that Timbaland just creates beats and then calls Jay-Z and says "hey, come rip this beat for me... Magoo can't flow like you".. Truth of the matter he has decides what lyrics and flows are to be on the album.. So if he wants a Snoop verse to outshine the beat, then that is 100% Timbaland's doing and creation. Which is the reason he said he was disappointed with the Jay-Z track not being ready for the album. It's not like he didnt have a jay-z verse, the verse wasn't done in the manner that Timbo wanted it to be to be finalized for the album.

That's very likely indeed, and that most likely is the reason why in the end Timbaland did put his own people on the album. He knew they would sound good, and possibly even better than Jay-Z, without being better rappers than Jay-Z.

On another note, i don't know how well Producer albums do without a constant circle of artists working with them. Dre had Eminem, Xzibit, Mel Man, Hittman in the studio with him for almost every track on Dre 2001. He had Snoop, Kurupt, Daz, J-Flexx, DOC etc in the studio with him every track for The Chronic.. Timbo has Danja but it would of been nice if he had some inhouse rappers and musicians to imulate the sound for the 'big names'.. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. None of us were in the studio.

True, but we know he's worked with Magoo and them often before! They may have stayed around while Timbaland was crafting up his Shock Value. Indeed, we don't know.