Author Topic: Malaysian court rules that Muslim woman CANNOT convert to Christianity  (Read 79 times)

Real American

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Remember everyone....Malaysia is supposed to be a "moderate" Muslim nation. Allah Akbar.....DEATH TO INFIDELS!!!!!!

Malaysia's Lina Joy loses Islam conversion case

By Jalil Hamid and Syed Azman
May 30, 2007
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 Print PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia (Reuters) - Malaysia's best known Christian convert, Lina Joy, lost a six-year battle on Wednesday to have the word "Islam" removed from her identity card, after the country's highest court rejected the change.

The ruling threatens to further polarize Malaysian society between non-Muslims who feel that their constitutional right to religious freedom is being eroded, and Muslims who believe that civil courts have no right to meddle in Islamic affairs.

"You can't at whim and fancy convert from one religion to another," Federal Court Chief Justice Ahmad Fairuz Sheikh Abdul Halim said in delivering judgment in the case, which has stirred religious tensions in the mainly Muslim nation.

He said the civil court had no jurisdiction in the case and that it should be dealt with by the country's Islamic courts.

"The issue of apostasy is related to Islamic law, so it's under the sharia court. The civil court cannot intervene."

About 200 mostly young Muslims welcomed the ruling outside the domed courthouse with shouts of "Allah-o-Akbar" (God is great), but Christians and non-Muslim politicians were dismayed.

"I think it's a major blow," opposition politician Lim Kit Siang said. "It casts a large shadow on civil liberties and the constitutional rights of Malaysians."

Malaysia's Council of Churches was saddened.

"We still go by the possibility that the constitution allows any citizen of the country to exercise his or her right to choose a religion and practice it," council secretary Rev. Hermen Shastri said outside the court.

"I don't think this decision is going to stop an individual from exercising that right for whatever reason."


The three-judge appeal bench ruled 2-1 against Joy. The dissenting judge, the only non-Muslim on the bench, said the department responsible for issuing identity cards should have complied with Joy's request to remove "Islam" from her card.

He accused the National Registration Department of abusing its powers. "In my view, this is tantamount to unequal treatment under the law. She is entitled to an IC where the word Islam does not appear," dissenting judge Richard Malanjum said.

Malaysia's Muslim Youth Movement welcomed the ruling, which asserted the overriding jurisdiction of the Islamic or sharia courts in cases centering on a Muslim's faith.

"We hope that we have seen the last of such attempts," said the movement's president, Yusri Mohamad. "We invite anyone who feels that they are aggrieved or victimized within the current system to choose other, less confrontational and controversial attempts towards change and reform."

In practice, sharia courts do not allow Muslims to formally renounce Islam, preferring to send apostates to counseling and, ultimately, fining or jailing them if they do not desist.

They often end up in legal limbo, unable to register their new religious affiliations or legally marry non-Muslims. Many keep silent about their choice or emigrate.

Lina Joy, 43, was born Azlina Jailani and was brought up as a Muslim, but at the age of 26 decided to become a Christian. She wants to marry her Christian boyfriend, a cook, but she cannot do so while her identity card declares her to me Muslim.

In 1999, the registration department allowed her to change the name in her identity card to Lina Joy but the entry for her religion remained "Islam."

Malaysia, like neighboring Indonesia, practices a moderate brand of Islam, but Muslims account for only a bare majority of Malaysia's population and are very sensitive to any perceived threats to Islam's special status as the official religion.

Malaysia has been under Islamic influence since the 15th century, but big waves of Chinese and Indian immigrants over the last 150 years has dramatically changed its racial and religious make-up. Now, about 40 percent of Malaysians are non-Muslim.

Copyright 2007 Reuters News Service. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed

« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 02:41:41 PM by Real American »


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Sucks to be there.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin

Real American

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Isn't it sad and pathetic that Muslims have to make it illegal to convert from Islam to other religions? Remember, Malaysia is one of the most moderate Muslim nations in the world. What are Muslims so afraid of?

This is just further proof that Muslims know that their religion is inherently false and that Christianity is the superior religion.

Real American

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Life as a secret Christian convert 
By Linda Pressly
BBC Radio 4's Crossing Continents 

Abandoning Islam for Christianity is such a sensitive issue in Malaysia that many converts find themselves leading a secret, double life.

Malay-Muslims make up 60% of the country's population
"If people know that I've converted to Christianity, they might take the law into their own hands. If they are not broadminded, they might take a stone and throw it at me."

Maria - not her real name - is a young Malaysian woman who has lived a secret and sometimes fearful life since she converted from Islam to Christianity.

Apostasy, as it is known, has become one of the most controversial issues in Malaysia today.

Maria became a Christian over a decade ago when she was 18. She says no-one forced her to convert, that she made the decision after studying different religious texts.

  If my family find out I am no longer a Muslim they will completely cut me off


Listen to the programme 
Conversion is deemed so sensitive in Malaysia that even the priest who baptised her refused to give her a baptismal certificate.

And, even now, the church she attends asked her to sign a declaration stating the church is not responsible for her conversion.

"My church says if the authorities come, they are not going to stand up for me. I have to stand up for myself," she said.

Not even Maria's family know she has converted.

"If my family find out I am no longer a Muslim they will completely cut me off. That means my name in the family will be erased.

"I could migrate, but the problem is I want to stay in Malaysia, because this is my country. And I love my family. I just want to live peacefully."

Heated debate

Malay-Muslims make up 60% of Malaysia's population. The rest are mostly Christians, Hindus and Buddhists.

But many Malaysian Muslims believe that people like Maria pose a threat to Islam.

And the debate between those who say Maria should have the right to officially convert, and those who are against apostasy has become so heated that the prime minister has asked both sides not to discuss sensitive religious questions in public.

  If the authorities find out, I will be in big trouble

Send us your comments
Programme information 
Fearful of what could happen, Maria would only talk to us on the phone from the privacy of her car.

She is very aware of the possible consequences of her decision to become a Christian if she is discovered.

"If the authorities find out, I will be in big trouble. They will create hell between me and my family, and hell in my life so that I will no longer get any privileges or employment."

Her fears are not unfounded. Another convert - Lina Joy - has been forced to go into hiding since her case went to court.

And at least one of the lawyers involved in that case has had a death threat against him.

Apostasy order

An apostasy order has to be granted for docmentation to change
Both Lina Joy and Maria want to make their conversion legal.

That means changing the identity cards that state they are Muslim.

Until now, the state has refused to do this until an apostasy order is granted from the Sharia court.

But both women claim they are no longer Muslim, so why should they go to the Sharia court?

For Maria there is a lot at stake. She has a boyfriend who is also a Christian and knows she is too.

The couple want to get married. But while Maria is still officially a Muslim, the only way they could wed in Malaysia would be if he converted to Islam.

And Maria's family - unhappy with her choice of partner - are pressuring him to do just that.

Crucial time

Maria is tired of living a double life.

"It's very frustrating," she tells us tearfully. "It means I have to limit my scope with friends.

"I have to be able to completely trust someone before I dare to reveal myself.

"I know some other secret converts, but I never keep in touch with them.

"I can't let my network widen, because you don't always know who you are dealing with."

  I feel that I am all alone in this struggle

Only a tiny number of people have converted from Islam in Malaysia.

But the coming months will be crucial for them because a decision is expected in the case of Lina Joy.

The outcome of that case may well determine whether Maria will be able to live the life she dreams of - to be married to her boyfriend and live openly as a Christian.

Right now she can't imagine it.

"I feel that I am all alone in this struggle," she says, "and I am frightened because I am alone against the odds."

Crossing Continents was broadcast on Thursday, 16 November 2006, at 1102 GMT.

The programme will be repeated on Monday, 20 November 2006 at 2030 GMT.


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Who cares, Protestants are a bunch of cocksuckers anyway.  Anyone who wants to convert doesn't deserve any more respect than the crackers.  I say, celebrate diversity by choosing whether to kill them with the Glock-22 or the Sig-Sauer P226 or the Desert Eagle .50 AE.  It's still buck tha devil, buck tha devil, BOOM with the black fist, '07, '08, and on until Judgment Day comes.

*/shoots some more crackers with the Armalite*

Grown Ass Kid

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zoolander shouldve killed the prime minister

J @ M @ L

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We should go and liberate them with bombs.
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

LOL @ this fudgepacker

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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I haven't read the whole article but if the title is true, then that is not right for them to forbid people freedom of choice.  Because once you start forcing people to be Muslim against their will and not allowing them to change religion and beliefs, then their worship in fact means nothing and has no sincerity.  And sincerity and intention is everything in Islam.

The Qu'ran says in the second chapter.. "There is no compulsion in religion".   

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover



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Went to Malaysia in 05, the country is dope, Its clean and lawful, KL is an awesome city, amazing buildings everywhere, real interesting place because there are heaps of different Asian people (non-Muslim Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Indians, all Asians) doing business and living altogether under a clean-cut authoritarian Muslim government. Don't let that fool you though, there is still heaps of prostitution and child trafficking, corruption and filth. Malaysian society just keeps it on the down low. I seen foul A-sexual hookers standing on a sidewalk, while these full-robed, kufi-wearing, righteous Imam looking muthafuckers, walk right past the transvestite hookers like it aint no thing. Its Muslim hypocrisy.

I think what Real American is trying to say, in his own way, is that Islam needs a Reformation. By highlighting ridiculous things about Islam he is hoping the intelligent Muslims will get self-conscious and say 'yes these things are stupid.' 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 04:49:02 AM by The Overfiend »