Author Topic: The Koreans in Afganistan  (Read 1221 times)

Don Rizzle

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The Koreans in Afganistan
« on: July 29, 2007, 12:45:38 AM »
OK i've been living in Korea for the past month and the koreans being taken hostage is really big news here. I read what they say on the news that these were aid works but FYI they just ignorant christians on a religious holiday involved in some one upmanship against other churches, i think they only planned to be there for a week, while they were out there one of them posted a video ( video with subtitles, this one is still running but previous ones have been taken down and the ones the governement can't take down are getting blocked here) on their cyworld (basically the equivelant to myspace/facebook)  home page  of them teaching a bunch of afgan muslim kids a religious christian song in korean, the children wouldn't know what they are singing and it shows ultra cultural and religiously insensitivity which they seem to make a big song and dance about here with regards to us foreigners (but that is an entirely different subject), but they themsleves are even more worse when they leave their country!

i've been discussing this wtih as many koreans as i can and i have been really dissappointed with the responses and the korean attitude to discussions such as this anything that involves some form of criticism of korea or koreans basically, I listen patiently to their views and as soon as i give my opinion they interupt every few words making it impossible to have a real discusssion. (yesterday i was trying to discuss the hostages, anti-americanism and FTA)

to keep to this particular subject of the hostages unfortunatly it seems pretty much everyone i spoke to thinks their government has to paythe $10m for the hostages, when i explain the money maybe loose change for the K-govement, but it would actually be a real big deal to the taliban, making them even stronger and more likely to do this again and again, not to mention the lives that will be lost as a result of the way the taliban will use the money to buy weaponary and explosives. Koreans don't seem to care that paying the money is in effect swapping the 21 koreans lives for the lives possibily 2100 non koreans (however I can't just blame only korea for this attitude italy springs to mind). However one thing we could agree on was the hostages were idiots for going there in the first place, but i can't stand the media manipulation that is going on https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/07/27/200707270071.asp - this story is a prime example and just shows how delluded some people can be, if you want to get a more accurate version of what is being report check this site http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/07/cunning-christi.html.

now if i were the korean president my response would to do the exact opposite to what the taliban are asking - instead of removing the symbolic presence of 200 medics and engineers who don't actually make any signicant difference to the situation in afganistan, I would send proper combat troops into afganistan with a number somewhere in the region of 10,000 to 20,000 troops to actually confront the taliban and show the world S Korea is not weak anymore and they won't be dictated to by some loonies who live in caves thousands of miles away.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2007, 12:49:56 AM by Don Rizzle »

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2007, 01:35:19 AM »
1. Good job pointing out their real objective/mission in Afghanistan. However, that didn't matter much to begin with... the Taliban will take any foreign workers hostage because they know the Afghan government doesn't give a shit about Afghan civilians, but will be pressured by the governments of foreign workers to negotiate with the Taliban if foreigners are taken hostage. And yes... the incident with the Italians certainly did not help. Good for the Taliban.

2. Korea was gonna pull those 200 hundred out anyway... even before this incident.
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Real American

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2007, 07:21:34 AM »
What do Koreans say about America?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2007, 07:55:56 AM »
What do Koreans say about America?
this a picture of some Koreans protesting against FTA they are throwing cow shit at US beef which costs half the price of Korean beef (btw farming standards are pretty low here but land is really expensive) however it is about 50/50 if koreans are infavour of FTA or not, but they do seem to have an ultra protectionist attitude they seem to only ever want to buy korean made products but at the same time export many Korean products and don't really think about the hypocracy of it all.

They do seem angry at the US because you don't punish your soldiers who commit crimes in Korea, which is understandle IMO however i think they give too much weight to this and forget about how much help america has actually given to support the Korean people and still does do....however i will say they are more friendly about americans as opposed to the american government. They are also very xenophobic here so if any foreigner does something wrong over here its a really big deal and all koreans should know about it, whereas a Korean doing the same thing there isn't the same fuss, really it is the media that is to blame for many of koreas problems like this, but also the mums love to gossip and rumors spread like wildfire. On the whole when i try to talk to them why they don't like certain things about america or whaterver they can't back up their opinions, it seems to be more something that is what they are told to think by the media etc. if you can get them to engage properly they usually come around to the way i see things looking at them objectively, either that or they will just get really angry not listen to you and interuot you all the time trying to say their bullshit points over and over which usually actually have no substance at all(really frustrating)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2007, 07:59:56 AM by Don Rizzle »

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

Real American

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2007, 04:45:54 PM »
Tell us more about living in Korea. What are you doing out there, what are their women like, etc........
 

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2007, 05:03:12 PM »
Real American sounds like he's jacking off to this.
 

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 05:28:08 PM »
can't diss em they fought with usa in vietnam
 

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 05:52:29 PM »
OK i've been living in Korea for the past month and the koreans being taken hostage is really big news here. I read what they say on the news that these were aid works but FYI they just ignorant christians on a religious holiday involved in some one upmanship against other churches, i think they only planned to be there for a week, while they were out there one of them posted a video ( video with subtitles, this one is still running but previous ones have been taken down and the ones the governement can't take down are getting blocked here) on their cyworld (basically the equivelant to myspace/facebook)  home page  of them teaching a bunch of afgan muslim kids a religious christian song in korean, the children wouldn't know what they are singing and it shows ultra cultural and religiously insensitivity which they seem to make a big song and dance about here with regards to us foreigners (but that is an entirely different subject), but they themsleves are even more worse when they leave their country!

i've been discussing this wtih as many koreans as i can and i have been really dissappointed with the responses and the korean attitude to discussions such as this anything that involves some form of criticism of korea or koreans basically, I listen patiently to their views and as soon as i give my opinion they interupt every few words making it impossible to have a real discusssion. (yesterday i was trying to discuss the hostages, anti-americanism and FTA)

to keep to this particular subject of the hostages unfortunatly it seems pretty much everyone i spoke to thinks their government has to paythe $10m for the hostages, when i explain the money maybe loose change for the K-govement, but it would actually be a real big deal to the taliban, making them even stronger and more likely to do this again and again, not to mention the lives that will be lost as a result of the way the taliban will use the money to buy weaponary and explosives. Koreans don't seem to care that paying the money is in effect swapping the 21 koreans lives for the lives possibily 2100 non koreans (however I can't just blame only korea for this attitude italy springs to mind). However one thing we could agree on was the hostages were idiots for going there in the first place, but i can't stand the media manipulation that is going on https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/07/27/200707270071.asp - this story is a prime example and just shows how delluded some people can be, if you want to get a more accurate version of what is being report check this site http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/07/cunning-christi.html.

now if i were the korean president my response would to do the exact opposite to what the taliban are asking - instead of removing the symbolic presence of 200 medics and engineers who don't actually make any signicant difference to the situation in afganistan, I would send proper combat troops into afganistan with a number somewhere in the region of 10,000 to 20,000 troops to actually confront the taliban and show the world S Korea is not weak anymore and they won't be dictated to by some loonies who live in caves thousands of miles away.


koreans have too much sense of pride, but usually their not ignorant and they know reason, were in korea are you, are you in seoul?
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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 06:02:02 PM »
What do Koreans say about America?

They do seem angry at the US because you don't punish your soldiers who commit crimes in Korea, which is understandle IMO however i think they give too much weight to this and forget about how much help america has actually given to support the Korean people and still does do....however i will say they are more friendly about americans as opposed to the american government. They are also very xenophobic here so if any foreigner does something wrong over here its a really big deal and all koreans should know about it, whereas a Korean doing the same thing there isn't the same fuss, really it is the media that is to blame for many of koreas problems like this, but also the mums love to gossip and rumors spread like wildfire. On the whole when i try to talk to them why they don't like certain things about america or whaterver they can't back up their opinions, it seems to be more something that is what they are told to think by the media etc. if you can get them to engage properly they usually come around to the way i see things looking at them objectively, either that or they will just get really angry not listen to you and interuot you all the time trying to say their bullshit points over and over which usually actually have no substance at all(really frustrating)

yea they do get angry n their ignorant for that, but thats the media makin it a big deal, but shit happens like war crimes in vietnam thats y vietnamese and koreans dont really get a long, so any1 can clearly see the hypocracy but doesnt every nation have a lil bit out hypocracy

but the US did help the koreans but it was for their benefit also, they did not want a another communist sattelite and the korean war ended in a stalemate and it is divided still.
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Don Rizzle

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2007, 07:39:52 AM »
Tell us more about living in Korea. What are you doing out there, what are their women like, etc........
The standard of living is really high, everyone lives in high rise apartment blocks and drives korean made cars. the main companies like samsung and hyundai do absolugtely everything and i mean everything they cars, hospitals, supermarkets, apartments, electronics - basically if there is a pie u can bet they've got atleast one finger in it! Everything is very clean here which was nice welcome as I came from the rubbish dump of cambodia (not that i didn't like it there, there were many things to love about cambodia but the rubbish wasn't one of them!) The food is really good here and its not very expensive if you eat out you probably won't spend any more than $5 person on a meal unless u go somewhere really fancy, however nothing beats Laos where you could eat 3 meals a day, get drunk and sleep for about $10 per day aslong as u stayed away from their shitty capital Viantiene. Accomodation is really the only expensive thing here in Korea, and that doesn't mean it will necessarily be good, but luckily i'm staying with my gf's family so its free, but i am missing my independence so i can't wait to get my own place.

Its strange the majority of high school girls look ugly, but most girls in their 20s are beautiful but that may have something to do with the fact that 90% of them have had some form of plastic surgury.

I've been going out with a Korean girl for the last 18 months, she went back to Korea in march to finish her final year of uni and I came out at the begining of july for her summer holidays, after travelling around south east asia for a couple of months (highly recomended). I was supposed to go to new zealand next but now I am going to stay and teach English here for one year atleast then we might go back to England together. Teaching English although its not amazing pay the conditions are pretty good you get $2000-$3000 per month, free apartment, 50/50 medical ins and pension and free flights (they're gonna pay for me to goto japan for the visa run :) ) and even with all deductions like tax, medical and pension you still get to keep 90% of the money you earn.


iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2007, 07:52:23 AM »
OK i've been living in Korea for the past month and the koreans being taken hostage is really big news here. I read what they say on the news that these were aid works but FYI they just ignorant christians on a religious holiday involved in some one upmanship against other churches, i think they only planned to be there for a week, while they were out there one of them posted a video ( video with subtitles, this one is still running but previous ones have been taken down and the ones the governement can't take down are getting blocked here) on their cyworld (basically the equivelant to myspace/facebook)  home page  of them teaching a bunch of afgan muslim kids a religious christian song in korean, the children wouldn't know what they are singing and it shows ultra cultural and religiously insensitivity which they seem to make a big song and dance about here with regards to us foreigners (but that is an entirely different subject), but they themsleves are even more worse when they leave their country!

i've been discussing this wtih as many koreans as i can and i have been really dissappointed with the responses and the korean attitude to discussions such as this anything that involves some form of criticism of korea or koreans basically, I listen patiently to their views and as soon as i give my opinion they interupt every few words making it impossible to have a real discusssion. (yesterday i was trying to discuss the hostages, anti-americanism and FTA)

to keep to this particular subject of the hostages unfortunatly it seems pretty much everyone i spoke to thinks their government has to paythe $10m for the hostages, when i explain the money maybe loose change for the K-govement, but it would actually be a real big deal to the taliban, making them even stronger and more likely to do this again and again, not to mention the lives that will be lost as a result of the way the taliban will use the money to buy weaponary and explosives. Koreans don't seem to care that paying the money is in effect swapping the 21 koreans lives for the lives possibily 2100 non koreans (however I can't just blame only korea for this attitude italy springs to mind). However one thing we could agree on was the hostages were idiots for going there in the first place, but i can't stand the media manipulation that is going on https://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2007/07/27/200707270071.asp - this story is a prime example and just shows how delluded some people can be, if you want to get a more accurate version of what is being report check this site http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2007/07/cunning-christi.html.

now if i were the korean president my response would to do the exact opposite to what the taliban are asking - instead of removing the symbolic presence of 200 medics and engineers who don't actually make any signicant difference to the situation in afganistan, I would send proper combat troops into afganistan with a number somewhere in the region of 10,000 to 20,000 troops to actually confront the taliban and show the world S Korea is not weak anymore and they won't be dictated to by some loonies who live in caves thousands of miles away.


koreans have too much sense of pride, but usually their not ignorant and they know reason, were in korea are you, are you in seoul?
Yea i'm in western Seoul a few stops away from Mokdong. They do have alot of pride, but i also think they are too nationalistic which is slightly different and not a good thing. My post may have come across a little negative, but really i like Koreans they are in general very friendly, most of the time don't let me pay for anything. However when it comes to real issues i'm afraid to say yes most of them are ignorant, they may have strong opinions about something but they can't explain the reasons why, but maybe I need to talk to the older generation rather than my 23 to 35 year old friends, because honestly they don't know hardship and have been wrapped in cotton woll their whole lives and got everything they ever wanted. trouble is finding someone in the older generation who actually speaks english.....
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 07:55:13 AM by Don Rizzle »

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2007, 02:27:53 AM »
Teaching English although its not amazing pay the conditions are pretty good you get $2000-$3000 per month, free apartment, 50/50 medical ins and pension and free flights (they're gonna pay for me to goto japan for the visa run :) ) and even with all deductions like tax, medical and pension you still get to keep 90% of the money you earn.

That's pretty dope.
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

LOL @ this fudgepacker
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 04:16:44 PM »
Quote
SKorea focuses anger over hostages on US By BURT HERMAN, Associated Press Writer
Thu Aug 2, 3:27 PM ET
 


South Korea's frustration over the plight of Christian volunteers seized by the Taliban is starting to focus on the United States, a frequent target of resentment here.

Politicians and citizens of all persuasions are increasingly calling on Washington to help resolve the 15-day-old standoff, believing the United States to be the only country capable of pushing Afghanistan to meet the captors' demands that Taliban prisoners be freed.

The United States has so far simply said it remains in contact with the South Korean and Afghan governments on the issue. As the hostage crisis drags on, South Koreans are increasingly questioning what they have received from the U.S. in exchange for sending soldiers to support the U.S.-led coalitions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The course of the crisis could affect a presidential election this year in this key U.S. ally on China's doorstep.

An anti-American backlash could boost liberals who have increasingly pushed for Seoul to assert its independence from Washington at the expense of the conservative pro-U.S. opposition that now holds a commanding lead.

Taliban militants kidnapped the 23 South Koreans near Ghazni, Afghanistan on July 19. Demanding the release of militant prisoners, including some held by the United States, the hostage-takers have killed two male captives so far.

A delegation of top South Korean lawmakers left Thursday for Washington to press their case for an exception to the U.S. policy of refusing to make concessions to terrorists.

Richard Boucher, a senior State Department official, said the United States is not ruling out military force to free the hostages. But a South Korean official said Foreign Minister Song Min-soon and U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte had agreed during a meeting Thursday in the Philippines to rule out a military attempt to end the standoff.

Afghan officials said the volunteers' captors have agreed to meet with South Korea's ambassador, though they had not yet agreed on a venue.

In South Korea, a nightly candlelight vigil calling for the South Korean hostages to return home safely has recently moved to a new site in central Seoul next to the U.S. Embassy. Some protesters have carried signs with a U.S. flag being smashed by a fist and appealed to the White House: "Bush: Don't kill, negotiate."

Candidates in South Korea's December presidential elections have been happy to play the populist, anti-American card, which finds resonance in a country often torn between greater powers.

"I want to ask what kind of judgment the U.S. government would have made if the 23 hostages were Americans," Chung Dong-young, a well-known liberal presidential hopeful, told reporters this week.

Tragedy and anti-Americanism have turned the course of a South Korean election before.

In 2002, two girls were killed in a traffic accident with a U.S. military vehicle. The soldiers involved were exonerated, spawning weeks of anti-American fervor that rang out through election day and helped President Roh Moo-hyun win a come-from-behind victory with a pledge not to "kowtow" to Washington.

Since taking office, Roh's liberal government and the conservative Bush administration have frequently hit dissonant notes, even as they remain close allies.

They have argued about how to deal with North Korea and its nuclear weapons program, and about the costs for U.S. troops deployed in the South — some 28,000 American forces on a mission to deter a possible North Korean invasion.

Washington wants Seoul to share more of the costs for its deployment, but South Korea argues it has contributed forces to Afghanistan and Iraq for non-combat reconstruction missions.

"The South Korean government had this tragedy coming where it cannot do anything to protect the lives of South Koreans while dispatching troops to the U.S. war on terrorism so readily, citing the Korea-U.S. alliance," the People's Solidarity for Participatory Democracy, a major civic group, said in this week.

The president's office has been more diplomatic, simply asking the "international community" for flexibility, although it's clear the message is aimed at the Americans.

___

Burt Herman is chief of bureau in Korea for The Associated Press
this is what i think is fucked up about korea they are all going around blaming president bush for their fuckwit christians getting caught and possibily killed. they want flexability because they won't suffer the consiquences of meeting the demands of the taliban, instead it will be ACTUAL aid workers, NATO troops and AFGAN civilians and there won't be a korean in sight. president bush should tell them to go fuck themselves, in diplomatic language of course
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 04:18:34 PM by Don Rizzle »

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 10:16:57 PM »
Quote
SKorea focuses anger over hostages on US By BURT HERMAN, Associated Press Writer
Thu Aug 2, 3:27 PM ET
 


South Korea's frustration over the plight of Christian volunteers seized by the Taliban is starting to focus on the United States, a frequent target of resentment here.

Politicians and citizens of all persuasions are increasingly calling on Washington to help resolve the 15-day-old standoff, believing the United States to be the only country capable of pushing Afghanistan to meet the captors' demands that Taliban prisoners be freed.

The United States has so far simply said it remains in contact with the South Korean and Afghan governments on the issue. As the hostage crisis drags on, South Koreans are increasingly questioning what they have received from the U.S. in exchange for sending soldiers to support the U.S.-led coalitions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The course of the crisis could affect a presidential election this year in this key U.S. ally on China's doorstep.

An anti-American backlash could boost liberals who have increasingly pushed for Seoul to assert its independence from Washington at the expense of the conservative pro-U.S. opposition that now holds a commanding lead.

Taliban militants kidnapped the 23 South Koreans near Ghazni, Afghanistan on July 19. Demanding the release of militant prisoners, including some held by the United States, the hostage-takers have killed two male captives so far.

A delegation of top South Korean lawmakers left Thursday for Washington to press their case for an exception to the U.S. policy of refusing to make concessions to terrorists.

Richard Boucher, a senior State Department official, said the United States is not ruling out military force to free the hostages. But a South Korean official said Foreign Minister Song Min-soon and U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte had agreed during a meeting Thursday in the Philippines to rule out a military attempt to end the standoff.

Afghan officials said the volunteers' captors have agreed to meet with South Korea's ambassador, though they had not yet agreed on a venue.

In South Korea, a nightly candlelight vigil calling for the South Korean hostages to return home safely has recently moved to a new site in central Seoul next to the U.S. Embassy. Some protesters have carried signs with a U.S. flag being smashed by a fist and appealed to the White House: "Bush: Don't kill, negotiate."

Candidates in South Korea's December presidential elections have been happy to play the populist, anti-American card, which finds resonance in a country often torn between greater powers.

"I want to ask what kind of judgment the U.S. government would have made if the 23 hostages were Americans," Chung Dong-young, a well-known liberal presidential hopeful, told reporters this week.

Tragedy and anti-Americanism have turned the course of a South Korean election before.

In 2002, two girls were killed in a traffic accident with a U.S. military vehicle. The soldiers involved were exonerated, spawning weeks of anti-American fervor that rang out through election day and helped President Roh Moo-hyun win a come-from-behind victory with a pledge not to "kowtow" to Washington.

Since taking office, Roh's liberal government and the conservative Bush administration have frequently hit dissonant notes, even as they remain close allies.

They have argued about how to deal with North Korea and its nuclear weapons program, and about the costs for U.S. troops deployed in the South — some 28,000 American forces on a mission to deter a possible North Korean invasion.

Washington wants Seoul to share more of the costs for its deployment, but South Korea argues it has contributed forces to Afghanistan and Iraq for non-combat reconstruction missions.

"The South Korean government had this tragedy coming where it cannot do anything to protect the lives of South Koreans while dispatching troops to the U.S. war on terrorism so readily, citing the Korea-U.S. alliance," the People's Solidarity for Participatory Democracy, a major civic group, said in this week.

The president's office has been more diplomatic, simply asking the "international community" for flexibility, although it's clear the message is aimed at the Americans.

___

Burt Herman is chief of bureau in Korea for The Associated Press
this is what i think is fucked up about korea they are all going around blaming president bush for their fuckwit christians getting caught and possibily killed. they want flexability because they won't suffer the consiquences of meeting the demands of the taliban, instead it will be ACTUAL aid workers, NATO troops and AFGAN civilians and there won't be a korean in sight. president bush should tell them to go fuck themselves, in diplomatic language of course


isnt it a rule that they dont negotiate with terrorists?
818

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Re: The Koreans in Afganistan
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2007, 07:11:50 AM »
Koreans disturb me due to their lack of individualism and self-interest.  This tends to be true of Asians in general, but with Koreans, it's worse than with most.  Remember when Cho Seung-Hui shot up VA Tech?  Some dude representing Koreans in the U.S. wanted them all to fast in response because he was worried the incident reflected poorly on Koreans as a whole.  That is not good, and disturbingly inhuman behavior.  I may very well have to kill some Koreans to make a point.