Author Topic: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?  (Read 6453 times)

John Doe

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2008, 02:21:50 PM »
i just hope the shit comes out. it'll be a dope album regardless just gotta release it
 

Hittman2001

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2008, 02:30:29 PM »
I can't believe they used Mellowman's posts in that book and called him Mel Man....and we all know he isn't Mel Man
 

UCC

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #77 on: March 16, 2008, 10:51:14 AM »
Haven't been able to read everything in this thread, but here are some of my thoughts -


Who's going to be on the album-
Even though Dre has said everyone he's worked with will be on it, I would personally prefer if he did what he did with the original Chronic and have people who weren't well known to the public. Snoop only had a buzz off Deep Cover, and then Kurupt, Daz, RBX, Rage, Nate were all new and they all blew up on that album and it was fresh because people hadn't heard anything from them before.
So personally I'd like to see all Dre's new guys and none of the old guys, ie. Bishop, Stat Quo, Joell Ortiz (is he still on the label?), etc and NOT Em, snoop, 50, busta, etc - it'd be doper in my opinion to be hearing from all the newer guys and keep the sound really fresh that way (especially to the general public who haven't really heard bishop, stat, etc)


The concept -
I've got a feeling that it'll be hard for Dre to keep a concept together, though he will probably be able to just get everyone to write about similar subjects. The hard part about doing a story or something where it all ties together very tightly is that he makes loads of tracks and replaces old ones as new ones are made which are better, and he does the same thing with rhymes. So if every rapper was a character in a story for instance, then he may have a verse by someone that sounds dope, but then something doper is written and it'd replace the old verse - so the structure and tight theme would fall apart. Though if he just says, ok, write about something positive then the general theme could have a concept, but I really don't think we'll see something like a album that fits to a movie, or something with a detailed story, as his way of making things perfect makes that almost impossible because it would break any intricate conceptual structure


The sound -
Again, I don't think he'll let the concept dictate the sound, he will just go for the dopest shit possible, so if there is a concept where the beat changes with each rapper, that just may not sound that dope when put into practice, so he'll scrap any idea that makes the album not actually sound as good, even if it's a dope concept
As far as whether it's a new sound completely or like the stuff he's being doing recently, I'm guessing it'll probably be just very, very dope beats but in the style he's been doing recently, sparse and hard, with a distinct melody in there somewhere. If it is completely different (eg lush orchestral tracks or whatever), then he's not shown any signs of this in any other tracks... it's possible it'll sound different, but I believe there is some truth to him giving away old Detox beats to other people. He obviously thinks the style he's been doing for ages is really good, or he wouldn't keep doing it, and so I think he'll just be keeping the best sort of beats in that style


Conclusion-
So overall I think the album will be just 12 or so of the dopest beats he's made over quite a long period of time, probably similar to beats he's been doing recently, maybe a bit different, but nothing completely off the wall. With the rapping he'll just go for the best verses people have given him, regardless of whether they completely fit the concept, because he will always pick how it sounds first rather than how good it is theoretically. There will probably be some sort of connecting theme, like Detoxing, but it will be loose rather than a really intricate concept - sound will win over concept
 

Snoopafly-1986

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2008, 11:07:01 AM »
I think Dre should showcase some new West talent

Bishop
Jay Rock
Ya Boy
Game
Crooked

hopefully give these dudes some exposure so we can be a factor again 8)
 

Dre-Day

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #79 on: March 16, 2008, 11:57:56 AM »
I think Dre should showcase some new West talent

Bishop
Jay Rock
Ya Boy
Game
Crooked

hopefully give these dudes some exposure so we can be a factor again 8)

Gotti, you have to realise that westcoast rap music will never get similar success as it had in the 90's; at least not with the style gangster rap(sure you could argue whether Detox will still be a gangster rap album, but that's another story).
so whether (westcoast) rap artists will be able to benefit from the Detox release, really depends on the impact of Detox on the industry.

Who's going to be on the album-
Even though Dre has said everyone he's worked with will be on it, I would personally prefer if he did what he did with the original Chronic and have people who weren't well known to the public. Snoop only had a buzz off Deep Cover, and then Kurupt, Daz, RBX, Rage, Nate were all new and they all blew up on that album and it was fresh because people hadn't heard anything from them before.
So personally I'd like to see all Dre's new guys and none of the old guys, ie. Bishop, Stat Quo, Joell Ortiz (is he still on the label?), etc and NOT Em, snoop, 50, busta, etc - it'd be doper in my opinion to be hearing from all the newer guys and keep the sound really fresh that way (especially to the general public who haven't really heard bishop, stat, etc)
so i assume that you didn't like the formula dre used for 2001 as fas as guest features: providing a mix of upcoming talents and established artists?
i actually liked that formula, but i see your point. you have to realise that this is dre's final album though.

The concept -
I've got a feeling that it'll be hard for Dre to keep a concept together, though he will probably be able to just get everyone to write about similar subjects. The hard part about doing a story or something where it all ties together very tightly is that he makes loads of tracks and replaces old ones as new ones are made which are better, and he does the same thing with rhymes. So if every rapper was a character in a story for instance, then he may have a verse by someone that sounds dope, but then something doper is written and it'd replace the old verse - so the structure and tight theme would fall apart. Though if he just says, ok, write about something positive then the general theme could have a concept, but I really don't think we'll see something like a album that fits to a movie, or something with a detailed story, as his way of making things perfect makes that almost impossible because it would break any intricate conceptual structure


The sound -
Again, I don't think he'll let the concept dictate the sound, he will just go for the dopest shit possible, so if there is a concept where the beat changes with each rapper, that just may not sound that dope when put into practice, so he'll scrap any idea that makes the album not actually sound as good, even if it's a dope concept
As far as whether it's a new sound completely or like the stuff he's being doing recently, I'm guessing it'll probably be just very, very dope beats but in the style he's been doing recently, sparse and hard, with a distinct melody in there somewhere. If it is completely different (eg lush orchestral tracks or whatever), then he's not shown any signs of this in any other tracks... it's possible it'll sound different, but I believe there is some truth to him giving away old Detox beats to other people. He obviously thinks the style he's been doing for ages is really good, or he wouldn't keep doing it, and so I think he'll just be keeping the best sort of beats in that style


Conclusion-
So overall I think the album will be just 12 or so of the dopest beats he's made over quite a long period of time, probably similar to beats he's been doing recently, maybe a bit different, but nothing completely off the wall. With the rapping he'll just go for the best verses people have given him, regardless of whether they completely fit the concept, because he will always pick how it sounds first rather than how good it is theoretically. There will probably be some sort of connecting theme, like Detoxing, but it will be loose rather than a really intricate concept - sound will win over concept

i see that you haven't got a proper view of what Detox is going to be like yet, so perhaps you could read some more from this topic sometime: http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=169127  ;)

i see your point of how dre usually works, but, again, you have to realise that this is Dre's last album, so it's going to be different this time.

remember that dre has some great storytellers on his team, like The D.O.C. and Eminem so i don't see why he couldn't come up with a concept album.
offcourse it's not going to be easy to fit all those artists in the story, but if they're just going to be a character it should be possible.
besides, dre's very good at making the instrumentals attach to a certain artist, so if any producer can pull off making some sort of hiphop musical, it's dre.

thanks for putting real effort in your first post for this topic UCC, hopefully you'll come up with more  8)



« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 11:59:39 AM by Dre-Day - Sniper of the Kill Jimmy Iovine Movement »
 

UCC

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #80 on: March 16, 2008, 12:18:01 PM »
Who's going to be on the album-
Even though Dre has said everyone he's worked with will be on it, I would personally prefer if he did what he did with the original Chronic and have people who weren't well known to the public. Snoop only had a buzz off Deep Cover, and then Kurupt, Daz, RBX, Rage, Nate were all new and they all blew up on that album and it was fresh because people hadn't heard anything from them before.
So personally I'd like to see all Dre's new guys and none of the old guys, ie. Bishop, Stat Quo, Joell Ortiz (is he still on the label?), etc and NOT Em, snoop, 50, busta, etc - it'd be doper in my opinion to be hearing from all the newer guys and keep the sound really fresh that way (especially to the general public who haven't really heard bishop, stat, etc)
so i assume that you didn't like the formula dre used for 2001 as fas as guest features: providing a mix of upcoming talents and established artists?
i actually liked that formula, but i see your point. you have to realise that this is dre's final album though.

Yeah, I liked it - I mean I'm not going to complain if Em, 50, Snoop, Busta, etc etc are all on there spitting incredibly hot verses! But I'd also like to see a fresh start, though perhaps he doesn't have enough new artists to carry it off and also it will hugely help sales if Em, 50, etc are on there



i see your point of how dre usually works, but, again, you have to realise that this is Dre's last album, so it's going to be different this time.

remember that dre has some great storytellers on his team, like The D.O.C. and Eminem so i don't see why he couldn't come up with a concept album.
offcourse it's not going to be easy to fit all those artists in the story, but if they're just going to be a character it should be possible.
besides, dre's very good at making the instrumentals attach to a certain artist, so if any producer can pull off making some sort of hiphop musical, it's dre.

I understand that he's trying to do more, but I've got a strong feeling it will come down to choosing just the dopest beats and rhymes. If I'm wrong then I hope he's managed to pull off both having hot music AND a dope concept. I just have the feeling that he's probably going to have to make a choice and if he does then he'll lose the concept, as I'm sure as hell he want to lose the amazingness of the music

Like he may find with all the verses and beats he's got he can put together 2 albums - one is an album with a really awesome concept joining the whole thing, but with some just 'ok' verses and beats in there, OR he has the parts to put together an album with 100% amazing beats and 100% amazing sounding verses. I'd prefer the second album, that just sounds the best and I think that's what he'll go for


Although, maybe you're right, I guess he could work on beats and lyrics separately and even if he does change the beats up all the way until the end, he can still get people in to spit the same verses on the newer, better beats he's come up with. If the DOC, Em, Bishop, etc came up with a great story that worked together, then they could just keep tweaking it, and the other rappers on the album would just spit the lyrics that his team has written for the album



 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2008, 01:15:45 PM »
Who's going to be on the album-
Even though Dre has said everyone he's worked with will be on it, I would personally prefer if he did what he did with the original Chronic and have people who weren't well known to the public. Snoop only had a buzz off Deep Cover, and then Kurupt, Daz, RBX, Rage, Nate were all new and they all blew up on that album and it was fresh because people hadn't heard anything from them before.
So personally I'd like to see all Dre's new guys and none of the old guys, ie. Bishop, Stat Quo, Joell Ortiz (is he still on the label?), etc and NOT Em, snoop, 50, busta, etc - it'd be doper in my opinion to be hearing from all the newer guys and keep the sound really fresh that way (especially to the general public who haven't really heard bishop, stat, etc)
so i assume that you didn't like the formula dre used for 2001 as fas as guest features: providing a mix of upcoming talents and established artists?
i actually liked that formula, but i see your point. you have to realise that this is dre's final album though.

Yeah, I liked it - I mean I'm not going to complain if Em, 50, Snoop, Busta, etc etc are all on there spitting incredibly hot verses! But I'd also like to see a fresh start, though perhaps he doesn't have enough new artists to carry it off and also it will hugely help sales if Em, 50, etc are on there
yeah i think it's inevitable that the big names will be used to boost sales  :P
personally i'm not that excited either about 50 cent being on there and i wouldn't mind if Snoop wasn't on Detox at all ( probably going to catch heat for this, but fuck it; i liked his involvement on 2001, but this is 2008 and i feel that the snoop formula has run dry).

but 2001 didn't have any wack singles, so perhaps the outcome for the Detox singles won't be that bad ( somehow i really doubt that dre will just pick 3 or 4 singles for Detox by the way).
i doubt that Bishop Lamont will be featured on Detox as much as Hittman was on 2001, but he will certainly be featured on there a lot more than some of the big names.
Joel Ortiz is not on aftermath anymore by the way, but that doesn't have to mean that he won't be featured on Detox.

i do hope that there will be some fresh talent on there that i haven't heard of before, just like 2001 had.

i see your point of how dre usually works, but, again, you have to realise that this is Dre's last album, so it's going to be different this time.

remember that dre has some great storytellers on his team, like The D.O.C. and Eminem so i don't see why he couldn't come up with a concept album.
offcourse it's not going to be easy to fit all those artists in the story, but if they're just going to be a character it should be possible.
besides, dre's very good at making the instrumentals attach to a certain artist, so if any producer can pull off making some sort of hiphop musical, it's dre.

I understand that he's trying to do more, but I've got a strong feeling it will come down to choosing just the dopest beats and rhymes. If I'm wrong then I hope he's managed to pull off both having hot music AND a dope concept. I just have the feeling that he's probably going to have to make a choice and if he does then he'll lose the concept, as I'm sure as hell he want to lose the amazingness of the music

Like he may find with all the verses and beats he's got he can put together 2 albums - one is an album with a really awesome concept joining the whole thing, but with some just 'ok' verses and beats in there, OR he has the parts to put together an album with 100% amazing beats and 100% amazing sounding verses. I'd prefer the second album, that just sounds the best and I think that's what he'll go for


Although, maybe you're right, I guess he could work on beats and lyrics separately and even if he does change the beats up all the way until the end, he can still get people in to spit the same verses on the newer, better beats he's come up with. If the DOC, Em, Bishop, etc came up with a great story that worked together, then they could just keep tweaking it, and the other rappers on the album would just spit the lyrics that his team has written for the album

don't get me wrong, i also have doubts whether dre is able to pull it off, but i think he has the tools to make it happen.
based on the information of Detox that's available, Dre's camp is striving to make a concept album. based on the interviews with the D.O.C. i get the idea that he's a lot more involved than he was with 2001, which is definately a good thing if they want to make a concept album.
i'm not 100% sure how i should interpret the concept idea, but it could be just lyricwise, or both lyricwise and productionwise.
not every track will sound the same, but will still have a signature sound and fit the certain part of the story( the Chronic and Doggystyle were basically concept albums productionwise; not every track sounds the same but each track has the g-funk sound).

PS: check out the topic i linked to in my previous. i think there is a lot of interesting stuff that you didn't know before and will definately help getting a more clear view of what Detox is going to be like. yes the topic is huge, but there is no time limit  ;)
keep up the good work by the way!  :)

D~Nice

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2008, 01:23:03 PM »
Prince Paul had a album a while back, I can't remember the name of it. But it played out like a movie. Each track seamlessly told a story and the next track continued it. But to the average listener it would sound like different tracks. Something like that centered around the whole Detox theme would be dope.
 

kingston

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2008, 02:02:36 PM »
i hope it come out one day.. :-\
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2008, 02:19:24 PM »
48 laws of power...

D~Nice

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2008, 02:21:57 PM »
Prince Paul had a album a while back, I can't remember the name of it. But it played out like a movie. Each track seamlessly told a story and the next track continued it. But to the average listener it would sound like different tracks. Something like that centered around the whole Detox theme would be dope.

A Prince Among Thieves
http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Among-Thieves-Paul/dp/B00000HZVC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1205698163&sr=8-1


Quote
Editorial Reviews
Amazon.com
The concept album has a long history in rock & roll , with the Who's Tommy being by far the most successful (by virtue of its turns on the big screen and Broadway, respectively). Hip-hop has had a few interesting (Kool Keith's Sex Style) and not-so-interesting (RZA's Bobby Digital in Stereo) goes at the form, but not until Prince Paul's A Prince Among Thieves has the genre had a true epic of its own to claim. The album, a cynical story of two friends that turn into rivals over a record deal, is solid on every level, with a full story, great music, and a strong cast. The disc is populated by a bevy of characters, many played by solid veterans--Chris Rock and De La Soul as junkies, Everlast as a crooked cop, Biz Markie and Special Ed as enforcers for Chubb Rock's gangsta don, and Big Daddy Kane as a pimp--but features a pair of talented newcomers (Sha and Breeze) as the leads. Sha and Breeze are dynamic, and they show up some of the bigger stars here--though only a couple of the characters disappoint (most surprising of which is Kool Keith's Crazy Lou). Ultimately, it's a hell of a record, with Breeze, Chubb Rock, Big Daddy Kane, Heroine, De La Soul, Xzibit, Brand Nubian's Sadat X, and Kid Creole taking best advantage of the killer tracks Paul serves up for them. --Randy Silver

Spin
A Prince Among Thieves could be heard as the renaissance of hip-hop's psychedelic edge.... [T]his cartoon panoply of sound never loses a powerful sense of cumulative derangement.


Quote
Greatest Concept Album Ever

I put it out there.
This has got to be the great and most complex and complete concept album ever. It is a album that could be made into a movie easily and somewhat is if you ever saw the music video for the album.
The ablum tells the story of Tariq, who is trying to get a record contract and needs to make some money to finish up his tracks and ...well, I don't want to give it away.

This album also has great appearances by: Sadat X, De La Soul, Kool Keith, Xzibit, Big Daddy Kane, Chubb Rock, Everlast, Biz Markie, Chris Rock, and Rza.

And as always Prince Paul put several skits throughout the album.
(Check out Tariq's mom the end of track #3 -- it's hilarious). Chris Rock also does a funny skit as a crack head.
There also is a great remake of the Ice Cube song "Steady Mobbin'" (off the Death Certificate) called "Steady Slobbin'"

This is a true classic hiphop album.




Quote
A True Concept Album among those that aren't,

As far as I know, there has never been a hip-hop album like A Prince Among Thieves and i don't know if there ever will be. But to tell you the truth, i really hope there are. The idea of having whole hip-hop albums that tell a single story in a cinematic way could be its own sub-genre and really make for interesting listens.
The story is in a nutshell about the rise and fall of a would be MC named Tariq and his jealous friend True who is a drug dealer. This adventure takes you all over the place including jail and you end up meeting all kinds of interesting characters. The story is mesmerizing and the first time you put it on, you can't turn it off.
This whole thing is the brainchild of the genius producer Prince Paul, who hasn't done anything i haven't enjoyed from De La Soul to MC Paul Barman to Handsome Boy Modeling School. This is probably his definitive statement as an artist as he has masterfully orchestrated an epic hip-hop tale with lots of colorful guest stars (Big Daddy Kane, Kool Keith, De La Soul, Chris Rock) that manages to be powerful, bangin', funny, creative, and just all around enjoyable.
The way that this album is like an opera is that there are the songs (like the arias) and sandwiched in between are little intros with beats (like the recitative).
This album is really good, although the one part i usually skip is the love song by Newkirk (track 24) because after a few listens that track gets old and drags on too long. I think probably the song that works best as part of the story and as a concept is "The Men In Blue" featuring Everlast which has every line making a statement. Songs like "Steady Slobbin'" and the skit with Chris Rock are hilarious. There are some great moments like when True and Tariq are listening to Tariq's beat in the car and they both take turns rhyming over it.
This album is a huge achievement in the world of hip-hop and further cements Prince Paul's genius and should pave the way for more hip-hop concept albums and just more creativity in hip-hop period.


Quote
CLASSIC HIP-HOP

Anyone who knows even a little about hip-hop knows that storytelling has been central to hip hop music almost since its inception. Hip-hop fans will also recognize that concept albums are nothing new to the world of hip-hop (Ice Cube's "Death Certificate" immediately comes to mind, though there are countless others that lay claim to the status of concept album). It should also be noted that the use of skits on hip-hop albums is commonplace, if not ubiquitous. This being said, Prince Paul's "A Prince Among Thieves" is not only a bonafide hip-hop album that fits neatly into the tradition, it also redefined the genre. The thing that sets Prince Paul's masterpiece apart from the rest is its consistency in theme, tone and character. Over the course of this album, we see the main character travel through the flipside of the American Dream - the ghetto. As the album chronicles the main character's struggles to garner enough money to present a demo for a record deal, we see Prince Paul production technique in constant flux, embracing a different genre of hip-hop with every turn. From hardcore gangsta posturing to laid-back player/pimp macking to old school freestyle flava, the music fits the storyline flawlessly. The beats are fresh, the story is compelling and the rhymes are simply second to none. With a little help from several of underground hip-hop's luminaries (both past and present) Prince Paul has produced a hip-hop masterpiece on par with the Who's "Tommy." "Prince Among Thieves" tells the story of youth at a crossroads, of a culture on the brink, of life at its most crucial moment. It's patchwork of genre and subject-matter flows effortlessly together into a narrative so strong that only the most detached listener will not be able to relate to the struggles of the main character. In today's culture of shrinking attention spans, this album may be a challenge to most, but a careful listen reveals some insights that we all can learn from. I'll tell you one thing - after listening to the final, self-titled track, I will never listen to a "Dead Homies" song the same way even again. Never. Buy this one. It's a true classic.


I have heard nothing but good things about this album from friends,
but never got my ass to listen to it or buy a copy myself.
So Iīm requesting a Hook up  ;),I also would like someone to hook up:
Tommy (1969 Original Concept Album)


Quote
Editorial Reviews
Amazon.com essential recording
Tommy had the dubious distinction of being the first-ever rock opera; however, it's none the worse for that, Ken Russell's adaptation notwithstanding. Due largely to Pete Townshend's skill as a songwriter and composer, Tommy tells a coherent story and includes quality rock and roll at the same time, an impressive feat by itself. While surprisingly more linear than the later Quadrophenia, Tommy boasts several songs that stand up well on their own, including the classic "Pinball Wizard," "The Acid Queen," "I'm Free," and "Sally Simpson." Much of the rest doesn't make much sense lyrically unless you listen to the entire album, but you'll probably want to do that anyway, preferably with the lights low and the stereo cranked. --Genevieve Williams



Thanks for that Chad, I have the album just could not remember the name of it.
 

Snoopafly-1986

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #86 on: March 16, 2008, 02:45:03 PM »
I think Dre should showcase some new West talent

Bishop
Jay Rock
Ya Boy
Game
Crooked

hopefully give these dudes some exposure so we can be a factor again 8)

Gotti, you have to realise that westcoast rap music will never get similar success as it had in the 90's; at least not with the style gangster rap(sure you could argue whether Detox will still be a gangster rap album, but that's another story).
so whether (westcoast) rap artists will be able to benefit from the Detox release, really depends on the impact of Detox on the industry.

true

I just want Dre to get the best new west rappers of the West Coast on it and these to me are the best

If anybody can get us going back again its Dre 8)


 

UCC

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2008, 03:55:12 PM »
Conclusion-
There will probably be some sort of connecting theme, like Detoxing,
but it will be loose rather than a really intricate concept - sound will win over concept

Then itīs going to be like Chronic 2001,it has a connecting theme going through it.

I hope it's more like the original Chronic or Doggystyle - only having 12 tracks is a great sign in my opinion. I'd like it to have the same thing as Doggystyle where all the tracks are mixed and constructed in a similar style, they have the same style drums, and multiple layers in each track, although each track is so unique within that style, and all the tracks stand out from each other. I liked 2001, but I thought it had way too many tracks and the good verses were spread too thin over it, if he'd trimmed that down to 12 tracks and put nothing but dope verses over them I think it'd have been ever better

To me, Doggystyle is actually more of a Dr Dre album, but with Snoop on it. Snoop was incredible on it, but if you think about it you could have put anyone half decent on those beats and it'd still been amazing. It's kind of like the second version of the Chronic, just with a bit more Snoop on it and no Dre verses. The only concept I'm concerned with for Detox is the idea of having 12 unbelievably dope beats with nothing but dope verses across them, and hopefully having a common production style over them while still making them all stand out. I couldn't really care less what they rap about, Detoxing, guns, bitches, science, kittens, trees, carrots - whatever, just make sure that shit is the hottest sounding shit we ever heard (ie Doggystyle part 2)
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2008, 01:36:08 AM »
Conclusion-
There will probably be some sort of connecting theme, like Detoxing,
but it will be loose rather than a really intricate concept - sound will win over concept

Then itīs going to be like Chronic 2001,it has a connecting theme going through it.

I hope it's more like the original Chronic or Doggystyle - only having 12 tracks is a great sign in my opinion. I'd like it to have the same thing as Doggystyle where all the tracks are mixed and constructed in a similar style, they have the same style drums, and multiple layers in each track, although each track is so unique within that style, and all the tracks stand out from each other. I liked 2001, but I thought it had way too many tracks and the good verses were spread too thin over it, if he'd trimmed that down to 12 tracks and put nothing but dope verses over them I think it'd have been ever better

To me, Doggystyle is actually more of a Dr Dre album, but with Snoop on it. Snoop was incredible on it, but if you think about it you could have put anyone half decent on those beats and it'd still been amazing. It's kind of like the second version of the Chronic, just with a bit more Snoop on it and no Dre verses. The only concept I'm concerned with for Detox is the idea of having 12 unbelievably dope beats with nothing but dope verses across them, and hopefully having a common production style over them while still making them all stand out. I couldn't really care less what they rap about, Detoxing, guns, bitches, science, kittens, trees, carrots - whatever, just make sure that shit is the hottest sounding shit we ever heard (ie Doggystyle part 2)

i can see why you don't mind if Dre makes a Chronic 3, but i just disagree with that.
it's not that i would discredit a chronic 3 in general, it's just that this is Dre's last album, he will never make another soloalbum after that.
that's why i want more than just an album with a "theme" like 2001 had. that doesn't mean that i think that Detox shouldn't be a gangster rap album; i just want him to update his formula.
that's why i like the idea of a concept album; it gives the feeling of a complete package to me  :)
Helter Skelter is basically a conceptalbum; it's far from perfect but i like how it was put together.

as far as the direction of the production of Detox; i think Dre has given hints of the sound of Detox in his recent productions, but not the actual production structure.
as discussed in this topic before;if you look at the production of the past few years, sometimes he kept it simple and sometimes he experimented a little ( like on Oh! from the Obie Trice - Cheers album and on Don't get carried away from The Big Bang by Busta Rhymes; notice how a different instrument is attached to each performer).


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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2008, 08:14:49 AM »
Personally I would love to have a track with Cube and Ren on it, even though I doubt this will happen since Dre hasn't talked to Cube in years but Cube said a few months ago that he would be down if Dre gave him the call
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2008, 10:06:16 AM »
SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THIS HAS TAKEN SO LONG AND STILL NO RELEASE DATE?
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2008, 12:25:54 PM »
Personally I would love to have a track with Cube and Ren on it, even though I doubt this will happen

i expect bishop in 3 songs, em on 2, fifty helpin out on at least two hooks, bring nate dogg and kokane for some hooks as well. snoop better be on this motherfucka!, i'd like to see Ras kass in there, bun b, jadakiss, and his aftermath rosters of producers and artists( khalil, busta, focus, gage, eve, ) ohhh and XZIBIT! its been to long man!!
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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #92 on: March 22, 2008, 07:50:56 AM »
As far as the guests on the album  since this is Dre's final record I think it would be fitting to have some of the old Death Row inmates along with the new Aftermath cats. Specifically Snoop. Kurupt, RBX, Rage, would love to see Ren and Cube but I understand that is pretty much not happening so I am fine with that. Would also like to see Daz on at track as well for my personal perspective but that is not happening IMO either so I am fine with the four I have mentioned. About DOC I would not mind at all if he had some input here, maybe do a hook or something it would fit in well with a dark track. I agree about not having an overload of these old Inmates and focus on the new, Bishop specifically but bascially everybody on the label, would rather not have 50 on it but I can do with a track with him as well, maybe he will be motivated and spit something similar to his first album. Bishop should be the "Hittman" of "Detox" and should be the main focus since he is versatile and can spit lyrical though provoking rhymes much as Hitman was a lyricist on "2001". The album itself does NOT have to have a theme for me, but if Dre goes that way it is fine either way. I understand "2001" had a theme so it might be better to continue on that path but again for me it doesnt matter I will be satisfied either way. Does it have to be a "Gangsta album" well I am a gangsta rap fan but also a fan of good music and lets not forget that music is a form of ART but also a form of ENTERTAINMENT and that is exactly what "gangsta rap" is. Alot of people think at Dre's age 43 or whatever that he should not talk the "gangsta shit" but in reality he can speak on whatever like Chad said eailier "fuck what subgenres rappers belong to", if its dope its dope. I'll be back with more thoughts later in the weekend
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #93 on: March 22, 2008, 01:26:17 PM »
Does it have to be a "Gangsta album" well I am a gangsta rap fan but also a fan of good music and lets not forget that music is a form of ART but also a form of ENTERTAINMENT and that is exactly what "gangsta rap" is. Alot of people think at Dre's age 43 or whatever that he should not talk the "gangsta shit" but in reality he can speak on whatever like Chad said eailier "fuck what subgenres rappers belong to", if its dope its dope.
well i guess that's what seperates the boys from the men  ;)

As far as the guests on the album  since this is Dre's final record I think it would be fitting to have some of the old Death Row inmates along with the new Aftermath cats. Specifically Snoop. Kurupt, RBX, Rage, would love to see Ren and Cube but I understand that is pretty much not happening so I am fine with that. Would also like to see Daz on at track as well for my personal perspective but that is not happening IMO either so I am fine with the four I have mentioned. About DOC I would not mind at all if he had some input here, maybe do a hook or something it would fit in well with a dark track. I agree about not having an overload of these old Inmates and focus on the new, Bishop specifically but bascially everybody on the label, would rather not have 50 on it but I can do with a track with him as well, maybe he will be motivated and spit something similar to his first album. Bishop should be the "Hittman" of "Detox" and should be the main focus since he is versatile and can spit lyrical though provoking rhymes much as Hitman was a lyricist on "2001". The album itself does NOT have to have a theme for me, but if Dre goes that way it is fine either way. I understand "2001" had a theme so it might be better to continue on that path but again for me it doesnt matter I will be satisfied either way.
i think Cube's comments from the interview which you are referring to about dre were taken out of context, as he was much more positive in an other interview.
i can see why you and Chad doubt that Cube and Ren will perform on a dre track for Detox, but i'm quite sure they'll reunite at least one more time.

as far as the other guest features; i pretty much agree with you; like i said before, i thought 2001 had a great mix of new and already established artists.
i'm not sure about Daz; i wouldn't mind a Dogg pound track, but a lot of things have changed since 1992, so i'm not sure if Daz is "ready" for Detox  :P

about the D.O.C.; not sure if you heard the latest news, but he will write his whole next album and let others perform  :-\
that doesn't have to mean that he won't perform on Detox either, but i doubt he'll drop a verse since he trusts Dre a lot.

that would really be a shame imo, as they haven't really tried it yet with the "new" voice. as you can hear on Deuce and Helter Skelter it's definately worth a shot.

as a dre fan i know why you probably won't be disappointed with the final product, but try to put yourself in the position of a critic a little more   ;) this is his 3rd solo effort, it will be his last album and it's 2008.
indeed, you and Chad made good points about subgenre's.
looking forward to read what you got planned for this topic by the way  8)









« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 01:39:05 PM by Dre-Day - Sniper of the Kill Jimmy Iovine Movement »
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #94 on: March 22, 2008, 08:51:17 PM »
Does it have to be a "Gangsta album" well I am a gangsta rap fan but also a fan of good music and lets not forget that music is a form of ART but also a form of ENTERTAINMENT and that is exactly what "gangsta rap" is. Alot of people think at Dre's age 43 or whatever that he should not talk the "gangsta shit" but in reality he can speak on whatever like Chad said eailier "fuck what subgenres rappers belong to", if its dope its dope.
well i guess that's what seperates the boys from the men  ;)

As far as the guests on the album  since this is Dre's final record I think it would be fitting to have some of the old Death Row inmates along with the new Aftermath cats. Specifically Snoop. Kurupt, RBX, Rage, would love to see Ren and Cube but I understand that is pretty much not happening so I am fine with that. Would also like to see Daz on at track as well for my personal perspective but that is not happening IMO either so I am fine with the four I have mentioned. About DOC I would not mind at all if he had some input here, maybe do a hook or something it would fit in well with a dark track. I agree about not having an overload of these old Inmates and focus on the new, Bishop specifically but bascially everybody on the label, would rather not have 50 on it but I can do with a track with him as well, maybe he will be motivated and spit something similar to his first album. Bishop should be the "Hittman" of "Detox" and should be the main focus since he is versatile and can spit lyrical though provoking rhymes much as Hitman was a lyricist on "2001". The album itself does NOT have to have a theme for me, but if Dre goes that way it is fine either way. I understand "2001" had a theme so it might be better to continue on that path but again for me it doesnt matter I will be satisfied either way.
i think Cube's comments from the interview which you are referring to about dre were taken out of context, as he was much more positive in an other interview.
i can see why you and Chad doubt that Cube and Ren will perform on a dre track for Detox, but i'm quite sure they'll reunite at least one more time.

as far as the other guest features; i pretty much agree with you; like i said before, i thought 2001 had a great mix of new and already established artists.
i'm not sure about Daz; i wouldn't mind a Dogg pound track, but a lot of things have changed since 1992, so i'm not sure if Daz is "ready" for Detox  :P

about the D.O.C.; not sure if you heard the latest news, but he will write his whole next album and let others perform  :-\
that doesn't have to mean that he won't perform on Detox either, but i doubt he'll drop a verse since he trusts Dre a lot.

that would really be a shame imo, as they haven't really tried it yet with the "new" voice. as you can hear on Deuce and Helter Skelter it's definately worth a shot.

as a dre fan i know why you probably won't be disappointed with the final product, but try to put yourself in the position of a critic a little more   ;) this is his 3rd solo effort, it will be his last album and it's 2008.
indeed, you and Chad made good points about subgenre's.
looking forward to read what you got planned for this topic by the way  8)











about Daz I think that if he gets someone like Bad Azz to write his verse I think it would be great, Daz has been known to recycle his verses numerous times so to make sure that the verse is not something he said back in his last album I think that would be a good idea, besides Bad Azz has written for both him and Snoop and he is a very underrated lyricist. Its hard for me to seperate the fan in me and the critical side because I am pretty much on the postitive when it comes to an album, but I think that Dre is the biggest critic when it comes to his own work so if something is less than dope in his mind he will either work on it again or throw it away, I can't see anything less than dope on "Detox" its not going to be a rushed product, believe it or not "Doggystyle" was rushed into stores because Suge wanted it in time for the Thanksgiving holiday week and Dre was only finished with the first half of the album. Thats when all the rumors started that Daz and others produced the second half of Doggystyle, what happened was Dre heard the tracks but was not happy with them and went in the studio to put the final touches on them like a great producer does and there you go Classic album. Doggystyle was made in less than a year and look how it turned out, could not have been any better. But back to "Detox" I think that as the years have gone by and Dre has seen the direction music has been going he does not want to have something that you bump for a couple of months and get tired of it, thats what I wanted to say is lacking these days is replay value. "2001" was in constant rotation for at least a year and as the years went by since its release numerous other songs have sampled "XXplosive", "Next Episode", "Whats The Difference" so you know it was highly regarded. Another thing that albums these days have are too many tracks on them, as long as they are dope I don't care but the reality is rarely will you have a 21 track album in which all songs are dope, if anybody can do it Dre can but I would prefer for it to be closer to 16 or 17 tracks at the most, now a lot of people might say that you wait almost 10 years and you only get 16 songs well 16 is plenty good, The Chronic had around that amount and it was perfect, "2001" the only problem I had with the album were that I didn't feel a couple of the skits, I thought they took away from it, I would also prefer the skits be kept to a minimum unless the DOC is involved and you get a hilarious one because he is great with those. I'll be back with more later...
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #95 on: March 23, 2008, 07:09:55 AM »
I think that as the years have gone by and Dre has seen the direction music has been going he does not want to have something that you bump for a couple of months and get tired of it, thats what I wanted to say is lacking these days is replay value. "2001" was in constant rotation for at least a year and as the years went by since its release numerous other songs have sampled "XXplosive", "Next Episode", "Whats The Difference" so you know it was highly regarded. Another thing that albums these days have are too many tracks on them, as long as they are dope I don't care but the reality is rarely will you have a 21 track album in which all songs are dope, if anybody can do it Dre can but I would prefer for it to be closer to 16 or 17 tracks at the most, now a lot of people might say that you wait almost 10 years and you only get 16 songs well 16 is plenty good, The Chronic had around that amount and it was perfect, "2001" the only problem I had with the album were that I didn't feel a couple of the skits, I thought they took away from it, I would also prefer the skits be kept to a minimum unless the DOC is involved and you get a hilarious one because he is great with those. I'll be back with more later...
good point about replay value; that's why i said that a chronic 3 album is not good enough for a final Dre album.

but try to go a little further if you can; i marked a lot of good points/comments in black in my topic, so check my signature to see the topic and try to find things to pick up on, as i know that you can pull it off  ;)

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2008, 07:32:02 AM »
believe it or not "Doggystyle" was rushed into stores because Suge wanted it in time for the Thanksgiving holiday week and Dre was only finished with the first half of the album. Thats when all the rumors started that Daz and others produced the second half of Doggystyle, what happened was Dre heard the tracks but was not happy with them and went in the studio to put the final touches on them like a great producer does and there you go Classic album. Doggystyle was made in less than a year and look how it turned out, could not have been any better.

I've always wondered about this... because that's what it basically says in Ronin Ro's 'Have Gun Will Travel' book, BUT then in a dubcnn interview (I think) with Daz he said which tracks he did and I think there were tracks off both sides, so it wasn't like a Dr Dre first half and other people second half (and I think Daz said he only co-produced 3 beats anyway). Then in the same book it says that then Dre was a perfectionist and went away and mixed all the tracks and fixed them up, taking it around various studios to mix it until it was perfect...
So which is it? Either they had to rush part of the album or he had loads of time to keep on mixing it until it was perfect - it seems kind of contradictory to me. And none of it seems rushed either because there are no obvious weak tracks
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #97 on: March 29, 2008, 07:32:54 AM »
believe it or not "Doggystyle" was rushed into stores because Suge wanted it in time for the Thanksgiving holiday week and Dre was only finished with the first half of the album. Thats when all the rumors started that Daz and others produced the second half of Doggystyle, what happened was Dre heard the tracks but was not happy with them and went in the studio to put the final touches on them like a great producer does and there you go Classic album. Doggystyle was made in less than a year and look how it turned out, could not have been any better.

I've always wondered about this... because that's what it basically says in Ronin Ro's 'Have Gun Will Travel' book, BUT then in a dubcnn interview (I think) with Daz he said which tracks he did and I think there were tracks off both sides, so it wasn't like a Dr Dre first half and other people second half (and I think Daz said he only co-produced 3 beats anyway). Then in the same book it says that then Dre was a perfectionist and went away and mixed all the tracks and fixed them up, taking it around various studios to mix it until it was perfect...
So which is it? Either they had to rush part of the album or he had loads of time to keep on mixing it until it was perfect - it seems kind of contradictory to me. And none of it seems rushed either because there are no obvious weak tracks

yeah I went with what Ro wrote in his book, I have to look over it again but that is what I remember he said, about Daz I remember what the interview you are talking about now its a matter of who is more credible Daz or Ro? I am one of the biggest Daz fans ever but I know whatever comes out of his mouth should be taken with a grain of salt, the 3 beats in question which ones are they?. It seems like "Ain't No Fun" sounds more Warren G than Daz, and also "Next Episode" would be more Warren than Daz. I agree no weak tracks on the album including "Next Episode" and if you include "Doggystyle" the unreleased song as well. I think you can probably put most of the unreleased tracks that were meant for the album and get 16 or 17 5/5 quality songs.
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #98 on: March 29, 2008, 08:05:53 AM »
I just read some interesting things about the concept of this album. I agree in order for this to go down as a classic that will be remembered it just can't be "The Chronic 3" with a bunch of guests old and new even if it is dope music. I like the idea of Dre doing something bad and then going to "Detox". Maybe this could be the opening of Dre doing some dark gangsta tracks in the beginning of the album with some of the old guests that were mentioned in this thread, former Death Row inmates, maybe  Ren and Cube hey anything is possible and then having the theme of him going into a "Detox" type of thing and changing the production up to incorporate this new style with more jazzy beats and it would be a great way to introduce his protege Bishop Lamont into the world. I thought previoulsy that Crooked I would be dope to be included but now that I think of it maybe he is not a good "fit" for any of this album so I am leaving him off, except if maybe he were to be included in a cut with Bishop, the two of them on a song together would sound intriguing. But for the most part I think Bishop should be the feature for the "Detox" part which would comprise the second half of the album, I am thinking most of the cuts like Chad said earlier in the thread 70% Bishop would be a great idea. One thing I am having trouble though is the part of picking a first single, what should it be the "Detox" part or the early dark gangsta type track? Which would make more of an impact the way "Still DRE" did because Dre dropped a track right there which is a signature one and will be remembered as his comeback single? It has been a longer wait for a Dre single this time because he had "Been There Done That" in '96 so he dropped one 3 years later
 

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Re: The serious DETOX thread: what are y'all hoping for?
« Reply #99 on: March 29, 2008, 09:13:54 AM »
I just read some interesting things about the concept of this album. I agree in order for this to go down as a classic that will be remembered it just can't be "The Chronic 3" with a bunch of guests old and new even if it is dope music. I like the idea of Dre doing something bad and then going to "Detox". Maybe this could be the opening of Dre doing some dark gangsta tracks in the beginning of the album with some of the old guests that were mentioned in this thread, former Death Row inmates, maybe  Ren and Cube hey anything is possible and then having the theme of him going into a "Detox" type of thing and changing the production up to incorporate this new style with more jazzy beats and it would be a great way to introduce his protege Bishop Lamont into the world. I thought previoulsy that Crooked I would be dope to be included but now that I think of it maybe he is not a good "fit" for any of this album so I am leaving him off, except if maybe he were to be included in a cut with Bishop, the two of them on a song together would sound intriguing. But for the most part I think Bishop should be the feature for the "Detox" part which would comprise the second half of the album, I am thinking most of the cuts like Chad said earlier in the thread 70% Bishop would be a great idea. One thing I am having trouble though is the part of picking a first single, what should it be the "Detox" part or the early dark gangsta type track? Which would make more of an impact the way "Still DRE" did because Dre dropped a track right there which is a signature one and will be remembered as his comeback single? It has been a longer wait for a Dre single this time because he had "Been There Done That" in '96 so he dropped one 3 years later

good stuff!