Author Topic: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)  (Read 813 times)

7even

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2007, 03:53:39 PM »
^No need to be all nice Jrome. Of course he has a bias, a major one. The reason why he goes at Nas is cause he knows Nas is respected. He won't go at Dipset or Ying Yang Twins cause people would just tell him "that's not real hiphop" and stuff.

Shallow, the reason why I don't respect you anymore is because you put your real stance under a cloud of noble, pseudo-impartial point of views. I don't like when people do that. Never did.

And I don't argue, because I won't argue against inane shit you put up as a guard. It is irrelevant how Bob Dylan is Rock and Eminem isn't.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Bch

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2007, 03:57:08 PM »
the things rappers have to go through nowadays to sell an album and create buzz for themselves...........


decade ago, you could put out a album and get ppl to buy it, now rappers get shot for noteriety or have to sell drugs to appeal to the masses for there record to even go gold rap game is fucked up...
 
ring tone rap's taking over
 

Shallow

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2007, 01:00:10 PM »



I don't care what Nas says about religion. That line was just stupid. I don't even know what it meant. I don't think he knew what it meant. One Mic is one of my favourite songs of his but;


"Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you

Everybody gotta die sometime; hope your funeral
never gets shot up, bullets tear through the innocent
Nothin is fair, niggaz roll up, shootin from wheelchairs
My heart is racin, tastin revenge in the air
I let the shit slide for too many years, too many times
Now I'm strapped with a couple of macs, too many nines
If y'all niggaz really wit me get busy load up the semis
Do more than just hold it explode the clip until you empty
There's nothin in our way - they bust, we bust, they rust, we rust
Led flyin, feel it? I feel it in my gut
THAT WE TAKE THESE BITCHES TO WAR, LIE 'EM DOWN
CAUSE WE STRONGER NOW MY NIGGA THE TIME IS NOW"


Makes no sense and is stupid. But is sounds really nice to listen to.


As for American Way.


It suffers from what most rap suffers from in my opinion; it's too literal. It's just Nas complaining about what he thinks of politics. He may as well just speak on it. Why bother with beat? That's how I see it. He's just going on as Nas about what he thinks of American politics. Kerry sees blacks as monkeys. Condie Rice needs to prove she's not an uncle Tom. It's just stupid opinion part of a rant. I want songs I have to study and figure out. I don't want something just presented to me as is, particularly when it's factually wrong, like Wheezy never winning an emmy.

A good political song is to me Springsteen's Born in the USA.




Interestingly enough, you chose a verse which mentions Jesus.  I swear to God you have some subconscious bias against Nas because he speaks about God / Religion.  And you said it makes no sense and is stupid?  Who in the hell are you to say those lyrics make no sense?

Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you



This makes no sense. You know it. I know it. There's no debate. It's just a silly worded bunch of rhymes that sound good and are well rapped. This was the part of the verse that makes no sense. The next part makes sense but I wanted to show that this grouping doesn't even lead into anything. It's not my fault Nas chooses to make no sense when he brings ou Jesus. He usually does make literal senses.




  That song is the juxtaposition of rage and war versus level headedness and a voice - one mic.  You notice how the song builds in the 1st 2 versus getting more and more enraged until he explodes and finds solidarity with one mic?  The police sirens in the backround? 

He's displaying that he has the angst built inside that makes him want to destroy everything in the world, all the injustice.  However, he realizes he can achieve the same goal but on a much more civilized and non-violent means. 


I already said I liked the song and was one of my favourites by him. I'm not saying the track sucks.


"Born in the USA" is a legendary song.  But it isn't cryptic at all - it's clear what he's getting at.  "Put a rifle in my hand, sent me to kill the yellow man" - What is so deep about that line?  It's not subject to any mind bending interpretation.  I'd argue that a song like "One Mic" is more sophisticated when you consider how the rhythm, flow, and tempo of the song completely drive home the emotion of Nas' message.

Hell, you can get everything from "BITUSA" just by reading the lyrics you posted.  You read the lyrics to "One Mic" you are missing an important piece that is the music which illustrates the story brilliantly.  "BITUSA" might have a nice beat to it and a catchy melody but it doesn't contribute to the story and message that "OM" does.


Now here you're just dead wrong. Bruce is a musican first. He writes music then lyrics. That main riff off Born in the USA was created to express false patriotism hidden in a jingo war chant and loud driving rhythm. Listen closely to the sadness of the keyboard chords in the melody. It's there just like the frustration is there in his voice when he screams the chorus. There is a reason he chose not to release the acoustic version of the song in '82 and waited for the next album in '84 to bring it out full band. The acoustc version was a straightforward anti-government song. The full band version's main focus is how blinded America had become in it's gung ho culture and how people that lost everything got nothing from people that turned their backs on them. In the full band the chorus respresents a man chanting along with the rest of America that turned him away. It respresents a man just trying to feel proud and patriotic despite the fact that his country turned its back on him. The acoustic version represents a man who has given up on and resents his country. The music plays the key role in that mood shift. The vocals of the chorus represent everyone in America that voted for Reagan despite losing everything and the keyboards represent every yuppie that voted for him with out even noticing those in trouble.

Whether I agree with it entrely isn't even the issue. This is simply the approach to protests songs, and songs in general that I prefer. I don't prefer the singer or rapper just preaching and speaking literally about his own views playing himself. If the plot of Born in the USA was told from the point of view of Bruce and just a bunch of stanzas by Bruce detailing why he hates the Reagan administration I wouldn't like the song all that much. The fact that he uses the vietnam vet as a character to reveal his message (part of the message since the music reveals another part) is what I like. Now since you so nicely quoted the lyrics slightly out of order let me give you my interpretation.

Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
Till you spend half your life just covering up
 

A man with a twsted view of the world losing his devotion but not wanting to. The dead man's town shows his lack of delight for his hometown. A man on the hard sid of life from day one. A man defeated. A man destroyed.

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man


A man whose troubled beginning lead to troubled acts. A man with no real knowledge of the world being forced into places he has no business being or wantng to be. The yellow man shows his lack of understanding in the world view. He doesn't know or care why he's there. He just knows it's the only way, because he was told so.


Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"
Went down to see my V.A. man
He said "Son, don't you understand"

Upon returning home the little that was given to him is now taken away. The business he worked for can't support him and the contry he served for won't.


I had a brother at Khe Sahn fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone

He had a woman he loved in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms now


He's growing up and realizing the bigger world out there. Rembering his brother (not neccessarily a blood brother) who fought and ded along side him for nothing. The people he was sent their to defeat are still in power and his brother is dead. His brother desitecircumstances fond happiness but it's gone now and all the narrator has now is memories.

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go

In between the pen and the refinery this man now lives. With work no available he's turned to a shady life of crime. He's either in jail or getting there soon. There is nothing left for him but he's still tryng to beproud. He was still;

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.



Again, your arguement is a fallacy.  You can read just as deeply into many of Nas songs.  I think the difference is, YOU can't relate to half of what he's saying - you don't understand his plight.  That, or like I said you have a bias and choose not to.


I can't relate to 90% of what Bruce is saying. I certainly don't understand the plight of vietnam vets. I just prefer a certain style. I wasa comparing the literal style of American Way to the fictional style of Born in the USA. One mic was brought up as a side note to explain certain words I didn't think made sense.

This is just how I prefer my music. Some people, in old rock as much as hip hop, don't prefer it that way. That's fine. I Like Nas. I think he has great talent. I think he chooses to dumb himself down sometimes for the streets and I'd like his songs a lot better if told from the point of view of more realistic sounding stories. Some of his stories are too over the top for me. But so was Cobain's story song of a grl raped and torured for a week and escaped by being nice to her rapists and that was based on a real story. I just didn't like it all that much. Some of Bruce's stories on Nebraska are a bit over the top for may taste and I don't like them as much as some of his other stories.


7even can think what he wants. He also thinks I'm fat. Something he pulled out of thin air and then ignored when I asked him for evidence. He can be as bad as Infinite sometimes. I'm not going to say I'm smarter than rap fans because I don't think I am. I like a certain style. I think it's better but it's just art in the end. We're not arguing who is a better guitarist, Bruce or Nas, because that's an easy answer. Who is a better poet can be left up to those who like what they like. I'm sure there are hard core poety fans out there that I'm a complete idiot for even saying the word poetry and Springsteen in the same sentence. To each their own.


You and I both like Ron Paul. We think freedom is the most important issue. Other's think safety at the cost of freedom is more important. Are they all complete idiots that we are above? I think social medicine is stupid and a true free market medicine would police itself and in the end benefit everyone more that free medicine. Is everyone that believes in socialized medicine a dimwit?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 01:01:52 PM by Shallow »
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2007, 08:52:58 PM »



I don't care what Nas says about religion. That line was just stupid. I don't even know what it meant. I don't think he knew what it meant. One Mic is one of my favourite songs of his but;


"Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you

Everybody gotta die sometime; hope your funeral
never gets shot up, bullets tear through the innocent
Nothin is fair, niggaz roll up, shootin from wheelchairs
My heart is racin, tastin revenge in the air
I let the shit slide for too many years, too many times
Now I'm strapped with a couple of macs, too many nines
If y'all niggaz really wit me get busy load up the semis
Do more than just hold it explode the clip until you empty
There's nothin in our way - they bust, we bust, they rust, we rust
Led flyin, feel it? I feel it in my gut
THAT WE TAKE THESE BITCHES TO WAR, LIE 'EM DOWN
CAUSE WE STRONGER NOW MY NIGGA THE TIME IS NOW"


Makes no sense and is stupid. But is sounds really nice to listen to.


As for American Way.


It suffers from what most rap suffers from in my opinion; it's too literal. It's just Nas complaining about what he thinks of politics. He may as well just speak on it. Why bother with beat? That's how I see it. He's just going on as Nas about what he thinks of American politics. Kerry sees blacks as monkeys. Condie Rice needs to prove she's not an uncle Tom. It's just stupid opinion part of a rant. I want songs I have to study and figure out. I don't want something just presented to me as is, particularly when it's factually wrong, like Wheezy never winning an emmy.

A good political song is to me Springsteen's Born in the USA.




Interestingly enough, you chose a verse which mentions Jesus.  I swear to God you have some subconscious bias against Nas because he speaks about God / Religion.  And you said it makes no sense and is stupid?  Who in the hell are you to say those lyrics make no sense?

Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you



This makes no sense. You know it. I know it. There's no debate. It's just a silly worded bunch of rhymes that sound good and are well rapped. This was the part of the verse that makes no sense. The next part makes sense but I wanted to show that this grouping doesn't even lead into anything. It's not my fault Nas chooses to make no sense when he brings ou Jesus. He usually does make literal senses.




  That song is the juxtaposition of rage and war versus level headedness and a voice - one mic.  You notice how the song builds in the 1st 2 versus getting more and more enraged until he explodes and finds solidarity with one mic?  The police sirens in the backround? 

He's displaying that he has the angst built inside that makes him want to destroy everything in the world, all the injustice.  However, he realizes he can achieve the same goal but on a much more civilized and non-violent means. 


I already said I liked the song and was one of my favourites by him. I'm not saying the track sucks.


"Born in the USA" is a legendary song.  But it isn't cryptic at all - it's clear what he's getting at.  "Put a rifle in my hand, sent me to kill the yellow man" - What is so deep about that line?  It's not subject to any mind bending interpretation.  I'd argue that a song like "One Mic" is more sophisticated when you consider how the rhythm, flow, and tempo of the song completely drive home the emotion of Nas' message.

Hell, you can get everything from "BITUSA" just by reading the lyrics you posted.  You read the lyrics to "One Mic" you are missing an important piece that is the music which illustrates the story brilliantly.  "BITUSA" might have a nice beat to it and a catchy melody but it doesn't contribute to the story and message that "OM" does.


Now here you're just dead wrong. Bruce is a musican first. He writes music then lyrics. That main riff off Born in the USA was created to express false patriotism hidden in a jingo war chant and loud driving rhythm. Listen closely to the sadness of the keyboard chords in the melody. It's there just like the frustration is there in his voice when he screams the chorus. There is a reason he chose not to release the acoustic version of the song in '82 and waited for the next album in '84 to bring it out full band. The acoustc version was a straightforward anti-government song. The full band version's main focus is how blinded America had become in it's gung ho culture and how people that lost everything got nothing from people that turned their backs on them. In the full band the chorus respresents a man chanting along with the rest of America that turned him away. It respresents a man just trying to feel proud and patriotic despite the fact that his country turned its back on him. The acoustic version represents a man who has given up on and resents his country. The music plays the key role in that mood shift. The vocals of the chorus represent everyone in America that voted for Reagan despite losing everything and the keyboards represent every yuppie that voted for him with out even noticing those in trouble.

Whether I agree with it entrely isn't even the issue. This is simply the approach to protests songs, and songs in general that I prefer. I don't prefer the singer or rapper just preaching and speaking literally about his own views playing himself. If the plot of Born in the USA was told from the point of view of Bruce and just a bunch of stanzas by Bruce detailing why he hates the Reagan administration I wouldn't like the song all that much. The fact that he uses the vietnam vet as a character to reveal his message (part of the message since the music reveals another part) is what I like. Now since you so nicely quoted the lyrics slightly out of order let me give you my interpretation.

Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
Till you spend half your life just covering up
 

A man with a twsted view of the world losing his devotion but not wanting to. The dead man's town shows his lack of delight for his hometown. A man on the hard sid of life from day one. A man defeated. A man destroyed.

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man


A man whose troubled beginning lead to troubled acts. A man with no real knowledge of the world being forced into places he has no business being or wantng to be. The yellow man shows his lack of understanding in the world view. He doesn't know or care why he's there. He just knows it's the only way, because he was told so.


Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"
Went down to see my V.A. man
He said "Son, don't you understand"

Upon returning home the little that was given to him is now taken away. The business he worked for can't support him and the contry he served for won't.


I had a brother at Khe Sahn fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone

He had a woman he loved in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms now


He's growing up and realizing the bigger world out there. Rembering his brother (not neccessarily a blood brother) who fought and ded along side him for nothing. The people he was sent their to defeat are still in power and his brother is dead. His brother desitecircumstances fond happiness but it's gone now and all the narrator has now is memories.

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go

In between the pen and the refinery this man now lives. With work no available he's turned to a shady life of crime. He's either in jail or getting there soon. There is nothing left for him but he's still tryng to beproud. He was still;

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.



Again, your arguement is a fallacy.  You can read just as deeply into many of Nas songs.  I think the difference is, YOU can't relate to half of what he's saying - you don't understand his plight.  That, or like I said you have a bias and choose not to.


I can't relate to 90% of what Bruce is saying. I certainly don't understand the plight of vietnam vets. I just prefer a certain style. I wasa comparing the literal style of American Way to the fictional style of Born in the USA. One mic was brought up as a side note to explain certain words I didn't think made sense.

This is just how I prefer my music. Some people, in old rock as much as hip hop, don't prefer it that way. That's fine. I Like Nas. I think he has great talent. I think he chooses to dumb himself down sometimes for the streets and I'd like his songs a lot better if told from the point of view of more realistic sounding stories. Some of his stories are too over the top for me. But so was Cobain's story song of a grl raped and torured for a week and escaped by being nice to her rapists and that was based on a real story. I just didn't like it all that much. Some of Bruce's stories on Nebraska are a bit over the top for may taste and I don't like them as much as some of his other stories.


7even can think what he wants. He also thinks I'm fat. Something he pulled out of thin air and then ignored when I asked him for evidence. He can be as bad as Infinite sometimes. I'm not going to say I'm smarter than rap fans because I don't think I am. I like a certain style. I think it's better but it's just art in the end. We're not arguing who is a better guitarist, Bruce or Nas, because that's an easy answer. Who is a better poet can be left up to those who like what they like. I'm sure there are hard core poety fans out there that I'm a complete idiot for even saying the word poetry and Springsteen in the same sentence. To each their own.


You and I both like Ron Paul. We think freedom is the most important issue. Other's think safety at the cost of freedom is more important. Are they all complete idiots that we are above? I think social medicine is stupid and a true free market medicine would police itself and in the end benefit everyone more that free medicine. Is everyone that believes in socialized medicine a dimwit?

I have no issue with personal tastes.  However, you called out Nas on particular songs criticizing that he wasn't smart enough, his lyrics were too simple, his lyrics didn't make sense.  I'd give you that arguement w/ parts of IWW, I Am, The Firm, and Nastradamus.  Nas had a renaissance when he dropped Stillmatic (not a classic by the way).  Streets Disciple was way over most people's head and so was HHID.  I think his new shit will be thought provoking as well. 

Look at who Nas is and his contemporaries.  Look at the people that are still rapping that were around when he started.  You can name them off and by and large they have completely sold out, fell off, not used their position for the better, just wack.  Hip Hop is in a much worse situation than Rock and yet Nas continues to ignore fads and make music that he thinks is dope.  He's one of the few that can appeal to the Hip Hop crowd that have been following the shit for damn near 20 years.  He's still being thought provoking.

HHID opened a lot of people up to how wack the game has gotten.  People got pissed off like a mother fucker at that album because deep down they knew that what he was saying was true.  Shit wasn't completely dead, but it's headed down the wrong path and motherfuckers are asleep at the wheel not realizing it. 

Nas is still being innovative, still using producers that he likes, still being thought provoking, still lyrical, still making complete albums, not hopping on trends.  So while I respect anyone's opinion, if you tell me you don't see that shit that he's been doing the last few years then all I say is that it's over your head simple and plain.
 

Shallow

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2007, 09:30:15 PM »
I just don't think his songs are as smart and thought provoking as he wants them to be. Even after Stllmatic on God's Son he went too far with it on I Can in my opinion (you don't have to fight propaganda with propaganda), and These are Our Heroes, which is just too holier than thou judgemental, and I don't care if it was hypocritical or not. My issue isn't Nas the man. I don't know him. I don't know how smart he is or isn't. To me it is a higher level of art to point out something in a subtle way rather than to preach it literally. To me Raging Bull is far greater art than any documentary of boxing. That said, some documentaries can be more artistic than dramas. Nas is higher art in Ghetto Prisoners than Good Charlotte is on whatver they sang last. Execution means a lot to me too. Approach isn't everything. I prefer Nas's aproach on "Who Killed It?"more than most of his songs but I hated the execution. I thought Phone Tap was great on both fronts. The story was a bit over the top for me but that's my only issue with it. Now "Coming of Age (Da Sequel)" by Jay z And Bleek from Vol. 2 I really like.
 

white Boy

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2007, 03:25:15 PM »
its allright ma is most def a rap song.
 

J Bananas

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2007, 05:55:29 PM »
I just don't think his songs are as smart and thought provoking as he wants them to be.

cos ign but he's cool as hell and that was funny making it more racist than before