Author Topic: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)  (Read 1105 times)

herpes

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2007, 03:28:06 PM »
^what took you so long to admit that you don't like hiphop? wasn't so hard now was it.


Seriously man, take some more english courses. Maybe some logic courses too.


still in denial, fatso?
were you not the one who said "I blame society for hiphop, not hiphop for society"...



There is nothing wrong with hte sound hip hop creates. The words just usually suck and the background music is usually uncreative.

You say you dont hate hip hop but right here more or less says you dont care about it either.  So why even post here then ?
 

7even

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2007, 03:31:00 PM »
^what took you so long to admit that you don't like hiphop? wasn't so hard now was it.


Seriously man, take some more english courses. Maybe some logic courses too.


still in denial, fatso?
were you not the one who said "I blame society for hiphop, not hiphop for society"...

I'm not fat.

That was a play on words. Learn more english please. And who is denying that hip hop is in a sorry state. Didn't I also say hip hop is Rock and Roll? A number of times.

I prefer the Springsteen approach any punk rock or metal approach of song writing. That doesn't mean I think those two genres are with out merit. I don't htink hip hop is incapable of writing lyrics as well as the Boss does. Bob Dylan wrote a fine rap in It's Alright Ma. Springsteen himself nicely rapped Open All Night during last year's tour. I thought Tupac's Me and My Girlfriend was superior lyricism at it's finest.

There is nothing wrong with hte sound hip hop creates. The words just usually suck and the background music is usually uncreative.

A play on words, that is really witty my man, yet it won't get you out of this. Just like all those other bullshit reasons like "Bob Dylan wrote a fine rap" or that Hiphop is Rock and Roll. Get the fuck outta here with that, it's pathetic really. I'm not going to get into this... taking you as a Hiphop-Fan would be absurd. It's like trying to have a serious conversation with Infinite.

What I find interesting, though, is how come you ain't fat anymore? To me, there are 3 possibilities. First one being you lost a lot of weight. Not likely, to be frank. Second one being, you are just in denial... very likely. The last, and most likely possibility: You just re-define things the way you are got damn pleased like you often do. So by your definition, you ain't fat, that's fine with me, you know. But keep in mind, you living in your own world (where my English sucks, where you are a HipHop-Fan because you like Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen, where you ain't fat and all...) won't hurt anybody but yourself.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

7even

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2007, 03:35:56 PM »
^what took you so long to admit that you don't like hiphop? wasn't so hard now was it.


Seriously man, take some more english courses. Maybe some logic courses too.


still in denial, fatso?
were you not the one who said "I blame society for hiphop, not hiphop for society"...



There is nothing wrong with hte sound hip hop creates. The words just usually suck and the background music is usually uncreative.

You say you dont hate hip hop but right here more or less says you dont care about it either.  So why even post here then ?

Cause he likes to look down on us. To him, listening to Bruce Springsteen makes him more sophisticated... especially amoungst intellectually challenged hiphop-fans. Of course,that is just me talking shit because my illiterate ass won't understand his intelligent posts.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Shallow

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2007, 03:44:07 PM »
7even- This is nothing like Infinite, except that you are acting like him. Explain to me why Elvis, the Beatles, Ozzy, Beck, and Fred Durst are all rock and ro;; but Eminem isn't. Explaint to me why It's Alright Ma isn't a rap, or a well written one. You aren't arguing anything. You're just calling my character into question.

Yes it was a play on words. Many people in the right wing media say Hip Hop is to blame for society's woes over and over. "I blame hip hop for society". So I turned it around as a joke.



When was I ever fat? I'd like to see where I said I was fat or where you saw a picture of me. I was a pretty big kid back in grade 7 and 8. I graudated high school at 6'1'' 178lbs and I was too thin in my opinion. I've gained some pounds since then but I'm not fat and I can still spring up and down the field for football and the pavement for ball hockey with ease.




^what took you so long to admit that you don't like hiphop? wasn't so hard now was it.


Seriously man, take some more english courses. Maybe some logic courses too.


still in denial, fatso?
were you not the one who said "I blame society for hiphop, not hiphop for society"...



There is nothing wrong with hte sound hip hop creates. The words just usually suck and the background music is usually uncreative.

You say you dont hate hip hop but right here more or less says you dont care about it either.  So why even post here then ?

I still like the sound it creates and I still like the rapping. Dylan wrote a great rap with It's Alright Ma but he didn't rap it all that well. I love Golf. Am I disrepecting Golf when if I say Tiger Woods isn't one tenth the athlete that Michael Vick is?
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2007, 03:45:46 PM »
^^^^See that article?  That is proof right there about what Nas is trying to do.  He's not playing Sharpton / Jackson's game.  He got fuckin Method Man to mention Darfur, saying that there's a real fuckin problem and yet these self annointed black leaders are camera whoring about what Nas is naming his album!

This is great, can't fuckin wait to hear this album.


Just because I agree with his stance doesn't mean I prefer that style of art (of course one mention of whites not being allowed to say it in his lyrics and his whole message is shot to shit.). I gave you my reasons in the post you seem to ignored. I don't like the way rappers approach topics. A lot of rock singers do it too but I'm not boasting about NoFX or Good Charlotte.



Well, I wasn't referring to you when I made that last post.  I was simply reacting to the article.  But since I'm here, I'll react to your last post as well...







What a lot of shit, he's simply just trying to sell a couple more records by giving the album a controversial title. I don't believe there's any deep meaning behind it at all.

Then you haven't been paying attention.


I think he could be right. I see the album filled with more Nas bullshit propaganda and hating. Just Nas pretending to be smarter than he really is offering up simple solutions to complex problems that play to the lowest common denominator. I could be wrong.

You are.

word, i wouldnt play much attention to shallows opinions on nas, we already know shallow doesnt know how to grasp his intelligence...maybe if he was white, he'd be a huge fan...

yo shallow i need to know something...you think its cool for people everywhere to go arouns saying "nigga" after all the history the words hold upon it?....i'm sorry but people should enough intelligence for themselves as to kno wwhat to say and what not to say...not just with a word...but sentences and so on..and not just nigger, many different sayings...im sure ppl of little intelligence will never understand but people who have a good mind should be able to understand the difference between what one should say and not say without needing to have such overblown debates about it. i know you are a cat of decent intelligence so im pretty sure you undestand what i am saying....and i agree that black people (im black by the way) partly have themselves to blame for how the word is used today...BUT that is not the only problem with the word....it is how it was first used....people need not worry about using the word nigga and need to learn more about acting with some RESPECT...

biggest problem with black people is the role models, nuttin else....we have amazing musicians, amazing producers, amazing talkers, people of great intelligence and people who are and have been great leaders....and whilse you may disagree because what i said can be argued as subjective, i think most people who can get beyond skin colour and appreciate talent and greatness whether it or does not relate to them can agree with what i am saying....however who do black cats look up 2?

not the rappers who be talking and teaching in their music....but no name rappers with bitches all flying in the background....

say you what u want about nas, but nas is a great artist...he will deserve his spot as one of greatest of all times....but do lil "niggaz" wanna be like him....nah....they rather be slingin crack with nasty ass hoes who be fuckin there best friend too....real talk

back on topic....

nas is very very smart with using this as his title....and yes some of it is marketing and getting people to talk...but thats just part of the genius because everyone wants people to talk....if u want deperation for marketing and music...look no further than your boy eminem....but as with hiphop is head and this....his getting people to talk about shit that requires thought rather than nuttin.....and if anyone thinks naming his album "nigga" will help his sales need a slap....because many people who cop will not feel comfortable copping an album whos title is "nigga".....infact i would change the name for the sake of sales....and i'd be suprised if his album is allowed to stay as "nigger" but either way....props to nas

pz


I never use the word. I think it's stupid to use it, black or white. It's an insulting word no matter how you slice it. I just realize that the power is in the reaction. If black people didn't jump up and down every time some white guy said something racist then racism would play out in the mainstream. The Don Imus issue was defended mostly by people that enjoy getting under other people's skin. They like to get a reaction. Take away that reaction and you'll defeat them. Going back to Imus; the reaction by idiots like Al Sharpton just made him more popular. He got out of his contract, got a bag of money, and now he's restarting his career more popular than ever. If no one said a damn thing then no one would have known about what he said, he would have stayed on the air with shitty ratings for a bit longer and then he'd drift away.


As for Nas, I think he's a great rapper. If I had to choose between his 7 or 8 albums or Eminem's 5 albums I'd take Nas's. But his words suck, just like Eminem's. There is too much drivel in between. I mean take a look at his guest spot on Puffy's Forever album. Beanie gets a nice cameo and that get's followed by Nas's first line "The Bible has words that Christ wrote, Evil men sacrifice goats". It just seems silly to me. Like I said, Em isn't any better. When I was talking of Nas's pseudo intellect I was speaking with regards to I Know I Can and that song hating on Tiger Woods from Street Disciple. Those songs were tedious and not as smart as they wanted to be.

If I want to hear good words I'll put on Thunder Road by Bruce Springsteen open the lyric booklet and enjoy. Enjoy a level of lyricism, poetry, and passion that Nas, (or Em) cannot reach. If I want to hear witty lyrics that make me go "hey that sounds cool" I'll put on Nas.


It seems like a lot your beefs with more "conscious" rappers are when they speak on religion.  Nas isn't flawless by any means, but note that picking apart versus from the Esco era is picking from his worst time creatively.  Besides, I'd pick apart "Oochie Wally", you don't have to dig as hard.

And what do you mean that those songs aren't as smart as they wanted to be?  "I Can" was a sing songy moral / history / positivity lesson for black kids.  You think it should have been "smarter"?  He released the fuckin song as a single while everybody else is slangin rocks.  Releasing that song was a hell of an accomplishment in my opinion.  I honestly don't understand your critique at all.

"American Way" from Streets Disciple:

Rap guys get bank and think they messiahs, but they liars
Vote fo who now? You're red, white and blue?
I'm American too, but I ain't with the president's crew
What you peddlin' and who you peddlin' to?
You ain't got the ghetto with you
Try'na lead my sheep to the slaughterhouse
Talkin 'bout +Rap the Vote+, you ain't thought about
The black vote mean nathan, who you gonna elect
Satan or Satan? In the hood nothin is changin, uh
We ain't got no choices who to choose
Ten-years ago they were tryin to stop our voices
And end Hip-Hop, they some hypocrites
Condoleeza Rice - I don't really get this chick
Tell her if she ever really cared about poor schools
About poor children, then she gotta prove that she
ain't just another coon Uncle Tom fool
Like these MC's, gotta give 'em the rules
Lie to the youth, Uncle Tom you confused
Might as well give the Hip-Hop community a noose
Need a truce with the gangs and some food for the hungry
On Kerry nuts, he look at you like a monkey
You MC's on that old slavery path
The Bushs'll look at yo' ass and laugh
See, it's all about community, let's help ourselves
Cops brutalize us get dealt with with shells
It's our turn, it's 'bout time we win
Need somebody as the hood as my councilman, uh

his man leans in, his boys laughing
Now I'm the spokesperson for Black men, this always happens
Says, "Since all Black women care about is who got dough
And all we do is call them either bitch or a Black hoe"
I say first brotha you ain't gotta be that cold
Since you ignorant, I'ma show you how the facts go
The biggest example in scandal of history
Were Monica Lewinksy or Donald Trump's pimping spree
Most woman who love Jeevanji of Gucci
Are pretentious non-Black groupies or floozies
But who are we to blame, not the dames
It's a man-made game, in essence our woman the same
Beautiful creatures, Black girls birthed the earth
So they deserve to earn man's purse
Matter fact, I'm about to go shopping with my dime
Catch you cowards the next time, the next rhyme, uh

I don't care about the runaways
I don't care about who's gay
I don't care about dying of AIDS
But I care if I got paid
Who even cares about the president?
I think they're making a mistake
I don't care about the hurricane
As long as my family's safe
I don't care about the candidates
They burnt this country to bits
Yeah I think about this everyday, that's the American Way


Should this song have been smarter?  Is he being pseudo-intellectual?  If anything, he's not being pretentious trying to use terminology to sheerly impress people.  He's more concerned with getting his message across.

And lastly, when he makes a crack at Tiger Woods for cooning, you take issue with that?  Did you even listen to the song or just focus on him dissing Tiger because most white people deem him an acceptable negro?  I don't think you remotely understand the song.


I don't care what Nas says about religion. That line was just stupid. I don't even know what it meant. I don't think he knew what it meant. One Mic is one of my favourite songs of his but;


"Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you
Everybody gotta die sometime; hope your funeral
never gets shot up, bullets tear through the innocent
Nothin is fair, niggaz roll up, shootin from wheelchairs
My heart is racin, tastin revenge in the air
I let the shit slide for too many years, too many times
Now I'm strapped with a couple of macs, too many nines
If y'all niggaz really wit me get busy load up the semis
Do more than just hold it explode the clip until you empty
There's nothin in our way - they bust, we bust, they rust, we rust
Led flyin, feel it? I feel it in my gut
THAT WE TAKE THESE BITCHES TO WAR, LIE 'EM DOWN
CAUSE WE STRONGER NOW MY NIGGA THE TIME IS NOW"


Makes no sense and is stupid. But is sounds really nice to listen to.


As for American Way.


It suffers from what most rap suffers from in my opinion; it's too literal. It's just Nas complaining about what he thinks of politics. He may as well just speak on it. Why bother with beat? That's how I see it. He's just going on as Nas about what he thinks of American politics. Kerry sees blacks as monkeys. Condie Rice needs to prove she's not an uncle Tom. It's just stupid opinion part of a rant. I want songs I have to study and figure out. I don't want something just presented to me as is, particularly when it's factually wrong, like Wheezy never winning an emmy.

A good political song is to me Springsteen's Born in the USA.

Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
Till you spend half your life just covering up

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.

Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"
Went down to see my V.A. man
He said "Son, don't you understand"

I had a brother at Khe Sahn fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone

He had a woman he loved in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms now

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.


Springsteen plays the role of a Vietnam vet who was turned on by the government. Bruce was never in the war. That's implied. He creates characters, sometimes narrates them, sometimes acts as them. He uses those character to unviel a greater message, often truth, and reveal what he feels. He could have just came out and said "fuck the government for using the soldiers and not taking care of them" but he's an artist. It also has layers to it. It's not just about a down and out man who ended up getting drafted because of his social situation and returned home to an America that didn't take care of him. It's just about the man remembering the war and his brother and realizing it was fought for nothing in the end. It's also about the man's blind patriotism that leads him to prause his country no matter what. It's also about the indifferent nature of the yuppie generation. The music tells a large part of the story. On the surface it sounds like a jingo anthem but hidden in the music, like the lyrics are hidden in chanting, is a deep sadness. America at that time was spend spend spend, me me me, oblivious to the suffering in the world. It's a perfect definition of America in the 80s. This is a man who despite all his hardships wants to love America even though he knows it's turned on him, and the rest of America is just pumping their fists on wallstreet thinking everything is positive. Just a handful of stanzas and a repeated chorus and I can take so much from it. That is the kind of song and music I like. If you don't then that's fine.


Interestingly enough, you chose a verse which mentions Jesus.  I swear to God you have some subconscious bias against Nas because he speaks about God / Religion.  And you said it makes no sense and is stupid?  Who in the hell are you to say those lyrics make no sense?  That song is the juxtaposition of rage and war versus level headedness and a voice - one mic.  You notice how the song builds in the 1st 2 versus getting more and more enraged until he explodes and finds solidarity with one mic?  The police sirens in the backround? 

He's displaying that he has the angst built inside that makes him want to destroy everything in the world, all the injustice.  However, he realizes he can achieve the same goal but on a much more civilized and non-violent means. 

"Born in the USA" is a legendary song.  But it isn't cryptic at all - it's clear what he's getting at.  "Put a rifle in my hand, sent me to kill the yellow man" - What is so deep about that line?  It's not subject to any mind bending interpretation.  I'd argue that a song like "One Mic" is more sophisticated when you consider how the rhythm, flow, and tempo of the song completely drive home the emotion of Nas' message.

Hell, you can get everything from "BITUSA" just by reading the lyrics you posted.  You read the lyrics to "One Mic" you are missing an important piece that is the music which illustrates the story brilliantly.  "BITUSA" might have a nice beat to it and a catchy melody but it doesn't contribute to the story and message that "OM" does.

Again, your arguement is a fallacy.  You can read just as deeply into many of Nas songs.  I think the difference is, YOU can't relate to half of what he's saying - you don't understand his plight.  That, or like I said you have a bias and choose not to.
 

7even

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2007, 03:53:39 PM »
^No need to be all nice Jrome. Of course he has a bias, a major one. The reason why he goes at Nas is cause he knows Nas is respected. He won't go at Dipset or Ying Yang Twins cause people would just tell him "that's not real hiphop" and stuff.

Shallow, the reason why I don't respect you anymore is because you put your real stance under a cloud of noble, pseudo-impartial point of views. I don't like when people do that. Never did.

And I don't argue, because I won't argue against inane shit you put up as a guard. It is irrelevant how Bob Dylan is Rock and Eminem isn't.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Bch

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2007, 03:57:08 PM »
the things rappers have to go through nowadays to sell an album and create buzz for themselves...........


decade ago, you could put out a album and get ppl to buy it, now rappers get shot for noteriety or have to sell drugs to appeal to the masses for there record to even go gold rap game is fucked up...
 
ring tone rap's taking over
 

Shallow

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2007, 01:00:10 PM »



I don't care what Nas says about religion. That line was just stupid. I don't even know what it meant. I don't think he knew what it meant. One Mic is one of my favourite songs of his but;


"Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you

Everybody gotta die sometime; hope your funeral
never gets shot up, bullets tear through the innocent
Nothin is fair, niggaz roll up, shootin from wheelchairs
My heart is racin, tastin revenge in the air
I let the shit slide for too many years, too many times
Now I'm strapped with a couple of macs, too many nines
If y'all niggaz really wit me get busy load up the semis
Do more than just hold it explode the clip until you empty
There's nothin in our way - they bust, we bust, they rust, we rust
Led flyin, feel it? I feel it in my gut
THAT WE TAKE THESE BITCHES TO WAR, LIE 'EM DOWN
CAUSE WE STRONGER NOW MY NIGGA THE TIME IS NOW"


Makes no sense and is stupid. But is sounds really nice to listen to.


As for American Way.


It suffers from what most rap suffers from in my opinion; it's too literal. It's just Nas complaining about what he thinks of politics. He may as well just speak on it. Why bother with beat? That's how I see it. He's just going on as Nas about what he thinks of American politics. Kerry sees blacks as monkeys. Condie Rice needs to prove she's not an uncle Tom. It's just stupid opinion part of a rant. I want songs I have to study and figure out. I don't want something just presented to me as is, particularly when it's factually wrong, like Wheezy never winning an emmy.

A good political song is to me Springsteen's Born in the USA.




Interestingly enough, you chose a verse which mentions Jesus.  I swear to God you have some subconscious bias against Nas because he speaks about God / Religion.  And you said it makes no sense and is stupid?  Who in the hell are you to say those lyrics make no sense?

Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you



This makes no sense. You know it. I know it. There's no debate. It's just a silly worded bunch of rhymes that sound good and are well rapped. This was the part of the verse that makes no sense. The next part makes sense but I wanted to show that this grouping doesn't even lead into anything. It's not my fault Nas chooses to make no sense when he brings ou Jesus. He usually does make literal senses.




  That song is the juxtaposition of rage and war versus level headedness and a voice - one mic.  You notice how the song builds in the 1st 2 versus getting more and more enraged until he explodes and finds solidarity with one mic?  The police sirens in the backround? 

He's displaying that he has the angst built inside that makes him want to destroy everything in the world, all the injustice.  However, he realizes he can achieve the same goal but on a much more civilized and non-violent means. 


I already said I liked the song and was one of my favourites by him. I'm not saying the track sucks.


"Born in the USA" is a legendary song.  But it isn't cryptic at all - it's clear what he's getting at.  "Put a rifle in my hand, sent me to kill the yellow man" - What is so deep about that line?  It's not subject to any mind bending interpretation.  I'd argue that a song like "One Mic" is more sophisticated when you consider how the rhythm, flow, and tempo of the song completely drive home the emotion of Nas' message.

Hell, you can get everything from "BITUSA" just by reading the lyrics you posted.  You read the lyrics to "One Mic" you are missing an important piece that is the music which illustrates the story brilliantly.  "BITUSA" might have a nice beat to it and a catchy melody but it doesn't contribute to the story and message that "OM" does.


Now here you're just dead wrong. Bruce is a musican first. He writes music then lyrics. That main riff off Born in the USA was created to express false patriotism hidden in a jingo war chant and loud driving rhythm. Listen closely to the sadness of the keyboard chords in the melody. It's there just like the frustration is there in his voice when he screams the chorus. There is a reason he chose not to release the acoustic version of the song in '82 and waited for the next album in '84 to bring it out full band. The acoustc version was a straightforward anti-government song. The full band version's main focus is how blinded America had become in it's gung ho culture and how people that lost everything got nothing from people that turned their backs on them. In the full band the chorus respresents a man chanting along with the rest of America that turned him away. It respresents a man just trying to feel proud and patriotic despite the fact that his country turned its back on him. The acoustic version represents a man who has given up on and resents his country. The music plays the key role in that mood shift. The vocals of the chorus represent everyone in America that voted for Reagan despite losing everything and the keyboards represent every yuppie that voted for him with out even noticing those in trouble.

Whether I agree with it entrely isn't even the issue. This is simply the approach to protests songs, and songs in general that I prefer. I don't prefer the singer or rapper just preaching and speaking literally about his own views playing himself. If the plot of Born in the USA was told from the point of view of Bruce and just a bunch of stanzas by Bruce detailing why he hates the Reagan administration I wouldn't like the song all that much. The fact that he uses the vietnam vet as a character to reveal his message (part of the message since the music reveals another part) is what I like. Now since you so nicely quoted the lyrics slightly out of order let me give you my interpretation.

Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
Till you spend half your life just covering up
 

A man with a twsted view of the world losing his devotion but not wanting to. The dead man's town shows his lack of delight for his hometown. A man on the hard sid of life from day one. A man defeated. A man destroyed.

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man


A man whose troubled beginning lead to troubled acts. A man with no real knowledge of the world being forced into places he has no business being or wantng to be. The yellow man shows his lack of understanding in the world view. He doesn't know or care why he's there. He just knows it's the only way, because he was told so.


Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"
Went down to see my V.A. man
He said "Son, don't you understand"

Upon returning home the little that was given to him is now taken away. The business he worked for can't support him and the contry he served for won't.


I had a brother at Khe Sahn fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone

He had a woman he loved in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms now


He's growing up and realizing the bigger world out there. Rembering his brother (not neccessarily a blood brother) who fought and ded along side him for nothing. The people he was sent their to defeat are still in power and his brother is dead. His brother desitecircumstances fond happiness but it's gone now and all the narrator has now is memories.

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go

In between the pen and the refinery this man now lives. With work no available he's turned to a shady life of crime. He's either in jail or getting there soon. There is nothing left for him but he's still tryng to beproud. He was still;

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.



Again, your arguement is a fallacy.  You can read just as deeply into many of Nas songs.  I think the difference is, YOU can't relate to half of what he's saying - you don't understand his plight.  That, or like I said you have a bias and choose not to.


I can't relate to 90% of what Bruce is saying. I certainly don't understand the plight of vietnam vets. I just prefer a certain style. I wasa comparing the literal style of American Way to the fictional style of Born in the USA. One mic was brought up as a side note to explain certain words I didn't think made sense.

This is just how I prefer my music. Some people, in old rock as much as hip hop, don't prefer it that way. That's fine. I Like Nas. I think he has great talent. I think he chooses to dumb himself down sometimes for the streets and I'd like his songs a lot better if told from the point of view of more realistic sounding stories. Some of his stories are too over the top for me. But so was Cobain's story song of a grl raped and torured for a week and escaped by being nice to her rapists and that was based on a real story. I just didn't like it all that much. Some of Bruce's stories on Nebraska are a bit over the top for may taste and I don't like them as much as some of his other stories.


7even can think what he wants. He also thinks I'm fat. Something he pulled out of thin air and then ignored when I asked him for evidence. He can be as bad as Infinite sometimes. I'm not going to say I'm smarter than rap fans because I don't think I am. I like a certain style. I think it's better but it's just art in the end. We're not arguing who is a better guitarist, Bruce or Nas, because that's an easy answer. Who is a better poet can be left up to those who like what they like. I'm sure there are hard core poety fans out there that I'm a complete idiot for even saying the word poetry and Springsteen in the same sentence. To each their own.


You and I both like Ron Paul. We think freedom is the most important issue. Other's think safety at the cost of freedom is more important. Are they all complete idiots that we are above? I think social medicine is stupid and a true free market medicine would police itself and in the end benefit everyone more that free medicine. Is everyone that believes in socialized medicine a dimwit?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 01:01:52 PM by Shallow »
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2007, 08:52:58 PM »



I don't care what Nas says about religion. That line was just stupid. I don't even know what it meant. I don't think he knew what it meant. One Mic is one of my favourite songs of his but;


"Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you

Everybody gotta die sometime; hope your funeral
never gets shot up, bullets tear through the innocent
Nothin is fair, niggaz roll up, shootin from wheelchairs
My heart is racin, tastin revenge in the air
I let the shit slide for too many years, too many times
Now I'm strapped with a couple of macs, too many nines
If y'all niggaz really wit me get busy load up the semis
Do more than just hold it explode the clip until you empty
There's nothin in our way - they bust, we bust, they rust, we rust
Led flyin, feel it? I feel it in my gut
THAT WE TAKE THESE BITCHES TO WAR, LIE 'EM DOWN
CAUSE WE STRONGER NOW MY NIGGA THE TIME IS NOW"


Makes no sense and is stupid. But is sounds really nice to listen to.


As for American Way.


It suffers from what most rap suffers from in my opinion; it's too literal. It's just Nas complaining about what he thinks of politics. He may as well just speak on it. Why bother with beat? That's how I see it. He's just going on as Nas about what he thinks of American politics. Kerry sees blacks as monkeys. Condie Rice needs to prove she's not an uncle Tom. It's just stupid opinion part of a rant. I want songs I have to study and figure out. I don't want something just presented to me as is, particularly when it's factually wrong, like Wheezy never winning an emmy.

A good political song is to me Springsteen's Born in the USA.




Interestingly enough, you chose a verse which mentions Jesus.  I swear to God you have some subconscious bias against Nas because he speaks about God / Religion.  And you said it makes no sense and is stupid?  Who in the hell are you to say those lyrics make no sense?

Jesus died at age 33, there's thirty-three shots
from twin glocks there's sixteen apiece, that's thirty-two
Which means, one of my guns was holdin 17
Twenty-seven hit your crew, six went into you



This makes no sense. You know it. I know it. There's no debate. It's just a silly worded bunch of rhymes that sound good and are well rapped. This was the part of the verse that makes no sense. The next part makes sense but I wanted to show that this grouping doesn't even lead into anything. It's not my fault Nas chooses to make no sense when he brings ou Jesus. He usually does make literal senses.




  That song is the juxtaposition of rage and war versus level headedness and a voice - one mic.  You notice how the song builds in the 1st 2 versus getting more and more enraged until he explodes and finds solidarity with one mic?  The police sirens in the backround? 

He's displaying that he has the angst built inside that makes him want to destroy everything in the world, all the injustice.  However, he realizes he can achieve the same goal but on a much more civilized and non-violent means. 


I already said I liked the song and was one of my favourites by him. I'm not saying the track sucks.


"Born in the USA" is a legendary song.  But it isn't cryptic at all - it's clear what he's getting at.  "Put a rifle in my hand, sent me to kill the yellow man" - What is so deep about that line?  It's not subject to any mind bending interpretation.  I'd argue that a song like "One Mic" is more sophisticated when you consider how the rhythm, flow, and tempo of the song completely drive home the emotion of Nas' message.

Hell, you can get everything from "BITUSA" just by reading the lyrics you posted.  You read the lyrics to "One Mic" you are missing an important piece that is the music which illustrates the story brilliantly.  "BITUSA" might have a nice beat to it and a catchy melody but it doesn't contribute to the story and message that "OM" does.


Now here you're just dead wrong. Bruce is a musican first. He writes music then lyrics. That main riff off Born in the USA was created to express false patriotism hidden in a jingo war chant and loud driving rhythm. Listen closely to the sadness of the keyboard chords in the melody. It's there just like the frustration is there in his voice when he screams the chorus. There is a reason he chose not to release the acoustic version of the song in '82 and waited for the next album in '84 to bring it out full band. The acoustc version was a straightforward anti-government song. The full band version's main focus is how blinded America had become in it's gung ho culture and how people that lost everything got nothing from people that turned their backs on them. In the full band the chorus respresents a man chanting along with the rest of America that turned him away. It respresents a man just trying to feel proud and patriotic despite the fact that his country turned its back on him. The acoustic version represents a man who has given up on and resents his country. The music plays the key role in that mood shift. The vocals of the chorus represent everyone in America that voted for Reagan despite losing everything and the keyboards represent every yuppie that voted for him with out even noticing those in trouble.

Whether I agree with it entrely isn't even the issue. This is simply the approach to protests songs, and songs in general that I prefer. I don't prefer the singer or rapper just preaching and speaking literally about his own views playing himself. If the plot of Born in the USA was told from the point of view of Bruce and just a bunch of stanzas by Bruce detailing why he hates the Reagan administration I wouldn't like the song all that much. The fact that he uses the vietnam vet as a character to reveal his message (part of the message since the music reveals another part) is what I like. Now since you so nicely quoted the lyrics slightly out of order let me give you my interpretation.

Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
Till you spend half your life just covering up
 

A man with a twsted view of the world losing his devotion but not wanting to. The dead man's town shows his lack of delight for his hometown. A man on the hard sid of life from day one. A man defeated. A man destroyed.

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man


A man whose troubled beginning lead to troubled acts. A man with no real knowledge of the world being forced into places he has no business being or wantng to be. The yellow man shows his lack of understanding in the world view. He doesn't know or care why he's there. He just knows it's the only way, because he was told so.


Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"
Went down to see my V.A. man
He said "Son, don't you understand"

Upon returning home the little that was given to him is now taken away. The business he worked for can't support him and the contry he served for won't.


I had a brother at Khe Sahn fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone

He had a woman he loved in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms now


He's growing up and realizing the bigger world out there. Rembering his brother (not neccessarily a blood brother) who fought and ded along side him for nothing. The people he was sent their to defeat are still in power and his brother is dead. His brother desitecircumstances fond happiness but it's gone now and all the narrator has now is memories.

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run ain't got nowhere to go

In between the pen and the refinery this man now lives. With work no available he's turned to a shady life of crime. He's either in jail or getting there soon. There is nothing left for him but he's still tryng to beproud. He was still;

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.



Again, your arguement is a fallacy.  You can read just as deeply into many of Nas songs.  I think the difference is, YOU can't relate to half of what he's saying - you don't understand his plight.  That, or like I said you have a bias and choose not to.


I can't relate to 90% of what Bruce is saying. I certainly don't understand the plight of vietnam vets. I just prefer a certain style. I wasa comparing the literal style of American Way to the fictional style of Born in the USA. One mic was brought up as a side note to explain certain words I didn't think made sense.

This is just how I prefer my music. Some people, in old rock as much as hip hop, don't prefer it that way. That's fine. I Like Nas. I think he has great talent. I think he chooses to dumb himself down sometimes for the streets and I'd like his songs a lot better if told from the point of view of more realistic sounding stories. Some of his stories are too over the top for me. But so was Cobain's story song of a grl raped and torured for a week and escaped by being nice to her rapists and that was based on a real story. I just didn't like it all that much. Some of Bruce's stories on Nebraska are a bit over the top for may taste and I don't like them as much as some of his other stories.


7even can think what he wants. He also thinks I'm fat. Something he pulled out of thin air and then ignored when I asked him for evidence. He can be as bad as Infinite sometimes. I'm not going to say I'm smarter than rap fans because I don't think I am. I like a certain style. I think it's better but it's just art in the end. We're not arguing who is a better guitarist, Bruce or Nas, because that's an easy answer. Who is a better poet can be left up to those who like what they like. I'm sure there are hard core poety fans out there that I'm a complete idiot for even saying the word poetry and Springsteen in the same sentence. To each their own.


You and I both like Ron Paul. We think freedom is the most important issue. Other's think safety at the cost of freedom is more important. Are they all complete idiots that we are above? I think social medicine is stupid and a true free market medicine would police itself and in the end benefit everyone more that free medicine. Is everyone that believes in socialized medicine a dimwit?

I have no issue with personal tastes.  However, you called out Nas on particular songs criticizing that he wasn't smart enough, his lyrics were too simple, his lyrics didn't make sense.  I'd give you that arguement w/ parts of IWW, I Am, The Firm, and Nastradamus.  Nas had a renaissance when he dropped Stillmatic (not a classic by the way).  Streets Disciple was way over most people's head and so was HHID.  I think his new shit will be thought provoking as well. 

Look at who Nas is and his contemporaries.  Look at the people that are still rapping that were around when he started.  You can name them off and by and large they have completely sold out, fell off, not used their position for the better, just wack.  Hip Hop is in a much worse situation than Rock and yet Nas continues to ignore fads and make music that he thinks is dope.  He's one of the few that can appeal to the Hip Hop crowd that have been following the shit for damn near 20 years.  He's still being thought provoking.

HHID opened a lot of people up to how wack the game has gotten.  People got pissed off like a mother fucker at that album because deep down they knew that what he was saying was true.  Shit wasn't completely dead, but it's headed down the wrong path and motherfuckers are asleep at the wheel not realizing it. 

Nas is still being innovative, still using producers that he likes, still being thought provoking, still lyrical, still making complete albums, not hopping on trends.  So while I respect anyone's opinion, if you tell me you don't see that shit that he's been doing the last few years then all I say is that it's over your head simple and plain.
 

Shallow

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2007, 09:30:15 PM »
I just don't think his songs are as smart and thought provoking as he wants them to be. Even after Stllmatic on God's Son he went too far with it on I Can in my opinion (you don't have to fight propaganda with propaganda), and These are Our Heroes, which is just too holier than thou judgemental, and I don't care if it was hypocritical or not. My issue isn't Nas the man. I don't know him. I don't know how smart he is or isn't. To me it is a higher level of art to point out something in a subtle way rather than to preach it literally. To me Raging Bull is far greater art than any documentary of boxing. That said, some documentaries can be more artistic than dramas. Nas is higher art in Ghetto Prisoners than Good Charlotte is on whatver they sang last. Execution means a lot to me too. Approach isn't everything. I prefer Nas's aproach on "Who Killed It?"more than most of his songs but I hated the execution. I thought Phone Tap was great on both fronts. The story was a bit over the top for me but that's my only issue with it. Now "Coming of Age (Da Sequel)" by Jay z And Bleek from Vol. 2 I really like.
 

white Boy

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2007, 03:25:15 PM »
its allright ma is most def a rap song.
 

J Bananas

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Re: Nas just ethered FOX news, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP (new album title!)
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2007, 05:55:29 PM »
I just don't think his songs are as smart and thought provoking as he wants them to be.

cos ign but he's cool as hell and that was funny making it more racist than before