Author Topic: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism  (Read 228 times)

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Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« on: December 03, 2007, 10:41:54 PM »
He is a pious man. A believer.

He puts on a pack. Walks into a crowd. And detonates an explosion that will blow him and many innocent bystanders to bits

An Islamic suicide terrorist.

Sex-negativity is an important part of the system that creates him. But in the studies of terrorists you will find very little about their attitudes to erotic pleasure.

So here is the idea.

Islamic terrorists are almost 100% of an age (16-34) when testosterone levels are their highest in the male lifespan.

Testosterone is an imperious hormone. It commands attention. It compels action. Anyone doubtful about the potency of  the chemical need only take a shot or two of it to see its effects.

Testosterone is lusty. It spurs sexual charge and the hunger for release. Exactly as nature intended.

When we resist that powerful drive, we hurt. Our genes want us to pay a price for disobeying commands that have kept our species alive for countless generations.

But imperious religions are threatened by imperious genes. Throughout history domineering religious traditions have sought to subdue the sex drive. Drive it into the shadows of existence.

Islam in most of the modern Middle East, is one such tradition. To be a young man in those cultures and full of the lust that is natural and healthy for a testosterone primed body, is to be sexually unfulfilled.

And the young men who have internalized autocratic Islam the deepest are the most sexually frustrated of all.

In their world, masturbation is a serious sin. Sex education is non-existent. Dating is impossible. Marriages are arranged. Every  form of sexual media is criminalized.

To embrace traditional Islam is to be at war with your own sexual impulses.

Consider, for example, Mohamend Atta, the man who led the 9/11 bombings. He never had sex. He was repelled by images of nudity, even classic art paintings. His will instructed that his genitals not be touched during the preparation of his corpse, and that no women come near his grave.

Such uncompromising sex-negativity has predictable outcomes.

First, it diminishes the joy of living. Erotic pleasure is a key element of human happiness.  Our genes designed it that way. Remove that source of vitality, and life becomes mundane, dry, rigid. Killing your sexuality makes killing yourself much easier.

Second,  constant sexual self-restraint is psychologically de-stabilizing.  When the body’s normal impulses are perpetually denied, the part of the brain that exercises that over-control gets unnaturally inflated, impairing our intitution and wisdom. An unbalanced brain becomes highly suggestible.   Not anchored in corporeal practicality, thought tends to the preposterous.  Absurd ideas become credible. And so the sickening irrationality of the notion that “God” commands the killing of innocent bystanders becomes accepted as true.

Third, the internal war on one’s own sexuality generates rage. Sexually frustrated men are not happy campers. Their testosterone needs an outlet.  When women don’t “fuck the war” out of men, they fight.

And sexually frustrated men tend not to be courageous, because real courage requires heart, and the heart withers in the midst of perpetual self conflict and pain. So sex-hating men look for easy targets. Like women, or gays, or ….innocent bystanders with Western values.

The sexually permissive West is a perfect icon of hate for people with deep sexual wounds. If sex is evil then so too are the cultures which normalize it.

Assemble the pieces of this profile and Islamic terrorism is more easily understood. The bodies of sexless men have little to live for. Their minds have much to die for and are primed to accept the most irrational pretexts to justify their demise.

So next time you hear about a suicide bomber, think about their attitude to sex. Think about how hating a part of oneself can cause one to hate everything else.
 

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2007, 10:14:14 AM »

Well, U know if a Palestinian does things like that (suicide bombing) then its because they went
thru alot !! Not because of their testosterone levels.
 

AndrE16686

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 09:12:19 PM »



To embrace traditional Islam is to be at war with your own sexual impulses.

Consider, for example, Mohamend Atta, the man who led the 9/11 bombings.


He never had sex. He was repelled by images of nudity, even classic art paintings. His will instructed that his genitals not be touched during the preparation of his corpse, and that no women come near his grave.


LOL @ that extremist shit.




First, it diminishes the joy of living. Erotic pleasure is a key element of human happiness.  Our genes designed it that way. Remove that source of vitality, and life becomes mundane, dry, rigid. Killing your sexuality makes killing yourself much easier.


^

Right on. I laugh at muthafuckers like the Pope telling people not to have sex, the Popes a faggot and Islam is primitive, fuck what yall say. I like Islam, I like alot of things about it, Im generally down with Muslims. RECOGNISE, but it also is a huge load of steaming primitive shit and stupid people following it makes it no better.  Seriously, how could the Neocons resist blaming a stunt like 9/11 on these idiots? Same way they did crack to the blacks.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 09:41:53 PM by THE OVERFIEND »
 

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 10:16:01 PM »
See.... it all comes down to perspective. 

Because you got one group attacking Islam and they say that Muslim men are too sexual, that they have up to four wives, or they mention how the companions of the Prophet had multiple wives, and even engaged in temporary marriage arrangements, the Prophet himself even had a dozen or so women in his life....and so on. 

Then you have another group now attacking Muslim men for not being sexual enough, and accusing Islam of working against a mans natural inclination towards sex.

The truth is that its true that some Muslim societies are too restrictive when it comes to sex.  Like in Bagledash or Pakistan for example, marriages are arranged, and although Islam allows for divorce they have made divorce taboo in their culture.

But other Muslim societies like what you would find in Turkey, Indonesia or West Africa allow for mixing between men and women and some even have a girlfriend/boyfriend system like you find in America.

So Islam itself does not encourage a Muslim to be celibate like Catholocism does, but rather Islam understands the true nature of people is to engage intimately and only encourages that it is done under a true, stated and understood agreement of terms.
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AndrE16686

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 11:12:17 PM »
^
Word. I understand what you saying about 'perspective', we on the same cloud on that one my man believe me, but tell me:

Whats stopping all Islamic societies from adopting the same repressive standards like Saudi Arabia and Iran? What makes the difference between them countries and the more moderate ones like you mentioned like West Africa and Turkey?




Before you reply, heres what I think, I think the difference is reflected in your post:


So Islam itself does not encourage a Muslim to be celibate like Catholocism does, but rather Islam understands the true nature of people is to engage intimately and only encourages that it is done under a true, stated and understood agreement of terms.

Let me expalin, the fact is: Islam means different things to different people. People (muslim or otherwise) could easily argue that Islam's attitude on sex goes furthur than what you say. But what is important is what YOU,  believe Islam to be. What is important is that you been blessed with the opportunity to discover what Islam means to you, for alot of other people this opportunity is hard to ever attain...

I mean, violence breeds violence, but that aside, what about the London bombers or the Columbine kids? dudes who grown up in a Liberal society, tolerant country with bountiful opportunities for wealth and a good life, why did they decide to blown themselves up?  Because they closed their minds off. You on the other-hand seek understanding, why else would you fucking bother going over to explore the World, why not just sit in your room your whole life reading the Koran? The difference between madness and sanity is but a few neurons in our brains.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 11:50:00 PM by THE OVERFIEND »
 

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 12:45:05 AM »
^
Word. I understand what you saying about 'perspective', we on the same cloud on that one my man believe me, but tell me:

Whats stopping all Islamic societies from adopting the same repressive standards like Saudi Arabia and Iran? What makes the difference between them countries and the more moderate ones like you mentioned like West Africa and Turkey?




Before you reply, heres what I think, I think the difference is reflected in your post:


So Islam itself does not encourage a Muslim to be celibate like Catholocism does, but rather Islam understands the true nature of people is to engage intimately and only encourages that it is done under a true, stated and understood agreement of terms.

Let me expalin, the fact is: Islam means different things to different people. People (muslim or otherwise) could easily argue that Islam's attitude on sex goes furthur than what you say. But what is important is what YOU,  believe Islam to be. What is important is that you been blessed with the opportunity to discover what Islam means to you, for alot of other people this opportunity is hard to ever attain...

I mean, violence breeds violence, but that aside, what about the London bombers or the Columbine kids? dudes who grown up in a Liberal society, tolerant country with bountiful opportunities for wealth and a good life, why did they decide to blown themselves up?  Because they closed their minds off. You on the other-hand seek understanding, why else would you fucking bother going over to explore the World, why not just sit in your room your whole life reading the Koran? The difference between madness and sanity is but a few neurons in our brains.

You are a smart man and I appreciate the compliments you gave me, I think if we sat down and talked about things we could speak on the same level and understand each other.

You asked me the difference between sexually repressive Muslim societies like Saudi and Iran versus open societies like Turkey and West Africa.   Well... first of all.... I wouldn't put Iran in the same category as Saudi Arabia.  Because actually in Iran they have temporary marriages where you can agree to hook up with a girl for a day, a week, years, whatever you decide.  So its actually made very easy there to express oneself sexually in a way that's of mutual understanding between the man and woman.   

So anyway, aside from that, the difference between Saudi versus Turkey and West Africa I think is historical and cultural.  Turkey has always been more loose, even back when they were beggining their leadership of the whole Muslim World by way of the Ottoman Empire that took leadership in the 14th century, at that time the people in Turkey smoked ganga and their women weren't covering their hair in scarves.  So their culture remained open and relaxed with or without Islam. 

But I want to be clear, I am talking about sexual relations not about war, bombs, and violence.  You kind of added some comments about the London bombings and Columbine and those are seperate issues, I was only discussing sexuality and its relation to Islam and Muslim societies in my post above.
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"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

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AndrE16686

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 03:26:56 AM »
Word.

Thanks mate.

People are generally more down to Earth in real-life, it is afterall the internet.
 

But I want to be clear, I am talking about sexual relations not about war, bombs, and violence.  You kind of added some comments about the London bombings and Columbine and those are seperate issues, I was only discussing sexuality and its relation to Islam and Muslim societies in my post above.

^
LOL, you will find that with my posts, I roam. I believe language is simply a tool to convey what the mind feels. Sometimes explaining things with rational language in a methodic manner fails to get across the feelings one mind intends to communicate to another.



So anyway, aside from that, the difference between Saudi versus Turkey and West Africa I think is historical and cultural.  Turkey has always been more loose... So their culture remained open and relaxed with or without Islam. 

^

Word. So you see Islam isn't a universal standard? And it is also self-contradictory when you look at it's application around the World right? Therefore its an illusion like Communism, Christianity, McDonalds and everything else that seeks to portray us the World. The real Islam to you is in your own understanding and the will to understand, rather than just to know.

Thats why I suppose Muslims forbid the depiction of God or why Jews keep the name of God secret, because if you don't do that you are giving somebody something to know and you cannot know, only seek to understand.






God has no religion.....Mahatma Gandhi.

All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence....The Buddha's last words.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 03:57:59 AM by THE OVERFIEND »
 

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 05:11:37 AM »
Word.

Thanks mate.

People are generally more down to Earth in real-life, it is afterall the internet.
 

But I want to be clear, I am talking about sexual relations not about war, bombs, and violence.  You kind of added some comments about the London bombings and Columbine and those are seperate issues, I was only discussing sexuality and its relation to Islam and Muslim societies in my post above.

^
LOL, you will find that with my posts, I roam. I believe language is simply a tool to convey what the mind feels. Sometimes explaining things with rational language in a methodic manner fails to get across the feelings one mind intends to communicate to another.



So anyway, aside from that, the difference between Saudi versus Turkey and West Africa I think is historical and cultural.  Turkey has always been more loose... So their culture remained open and relaxed with or without Islam. 

^

Word. So you see Islam isn't a universal standard? And it is also self-contradictory when you look at it's application around the World right? Therefore its an illusion like Communism, Christianity, McDonalds and everything else that seeks to portray us the World. The real Islam to you is in your own understanding and the will to understand, rather than just to know.

Thats why I suppose Muslims forbid the depiction of God or why Jews keep the name of God secret, because if you don't do that you are giving somebody something to know and you cannot know, only seek to understand.






God has no religion.....Mahatma Gandhi.

All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence....The Buddha's last words.


Those were powerful words bro, I give you respect.

And because you were jumping subjects that's why I mentioned that in person we could reach an understanding on a wide range of subjects but on a message forum I can only focus on one thing at a time.   But still, feel free to make your movements in your conversation as you feel, that's how you express yourself so feel free.

Those were some deep words you were laying down about Islam not being a universal standard and the real Islam being my will to understand rather than just to know. 

Let me ask you some questions because that was an interesting perspective you had and I want to hear more....

So your saying that you feel Islam itself is an allusion or are you saying that the idea that there is a universal standard or application for Islam is an allusion?

Also, what about the time when the Prophet Muhammad was alive 1400 years ago and he was available to lay down a Universal standard for Islam that was understood and accepted.... how would you regard Islam at that time, would you agree it was a Universal standard at that time?

Or how would you regard those Muslims with ambitious claims that they are still today following the Prophet Muhammad's Islam and therefore they have held onto the Universal Standard he legislated?

So are you saying that that is a good thing that Islam forbids a depiction of God, because it forces people to seek some internal understanding?

And if Islam's universal application is a total allusion then how would you describe the very real joy a Muslim might feel in travelling for Hajj or travelling across the world and feeling brotherhood right away with a person they've never met because that person prays like he prays, and believes what he believes?

Lastly, Islam is a religion of no person, place, thing or time, but rather submission to the Creator... so do you feel like that has a similar theme to your Ghandi quote above?

...hope you have time to answer... peace
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 05:24:29 AM by Abdul-Infinite Presents...Islam In Africa... »
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 08:19:11 AM »



Right on. I laugh at muthafuckers like the Pope telling people not to have sex, the Popes a faggot and Islam is primitive, fuck what yall say. I like Islam, I like alot of things about it, Im generally down with Muslims. RECOGNISE, but it also is a huge load of steaming primitive shit and stupid people following it makes it no better.  Seriously, how could the Neocons resist blaming a stunt like 9/11 on these idiots? Same way they did crack to the blacks.

co sign

you still consider your self muslim bachem? or are you totally renouncing the faith?

me, i still consider myself a muslim, i believe and i respect the faith,. but theres too much shit that i cant co sign.....
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

AndrE16686

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2007, 09:54:31 PM »



Right on. I laugh at muthafuckers like the Pope telling people not to have sex, the Popes a faggot and Islam is primitive, fuck what yall say. I like Islam, I like alot of things about it, Im generally down with Muslims. RECOGNISE, but it also is a huge load of steaming primitive shit and stupid people following it makes it no better.  Seriously, how could the Neocons resist blaming a stunt like 9/11 on these idiots? Same way they did crack to the blacks.

co sign

you still consider your self muslim bachem? or are you totally renouncing the faith?

me, i still consider myself a muslim, i believe and i respect the faith,. but theres too much shit that i cant co sign.....




Im not Muslim, although I keep telling my neighbour about how im converting to Islam, dude is an IDF vet, I keeps his blood pressure high...

« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 05:25:22 AM by THE OVERFIEND »
 

AndrE16686

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2007, 01:55:56 AM »
Sorry for the late reply my friend, lifes a hustle.

I started at the end and worked my way to the start.



Lastly, Islam is a religion of no person, place, thing or time, but rather submission to the Creator... so do you feel like that has a similar theme to your Ghandi quote above?


It is a similar theme.

It is a similar theme my friend, believe me, these similar themes are some of the most interesting things I feel about Islam.

And the Islam in your heart may very well be a religion of 'no person, place, thing or time' and 'submission to the Creator'.

However, my friend, the Islam of the world outside of your heart is very much a religion of a people (Muslims), a place (the Mosque), a thing (the black stone, relics and stuff inside the Kaaba) and a time ( you pray five times daily, my friend?).

It is this Islam that is the illusion, not the Islam of your heart.



And if Islam's universal application is a total allusion then how would you describe the very real joy a Muslim might feel in travelling for Hajj or travelling across the world and feeling brotherhood right away with a person they've never met because that person prays like he prays, and believes what he believes?

Yes. Islam's application may very well be universal, that is, universal between Muslims.

Now, how would you describe the brotherhood I feel after really getting to know this Sikh dude after a long time, or this Muslim girl or this other dude who don't even get down with religion? Mankind is my brotherhood, my friend. After-all, that’s the point, isn’t it?



Why do you have to pray in a certain direction, when God is in all directions?

Why must you even say a prayer outloud when God can hear it in your heart?


Why must you only feel that brotherhood with other Muslims?

Its political. Its cultural. Its gang-affiliation. It is religion.
 



So are you saying that that is a good thing that Islam forbids a depiction of God, because it forces people to seek some internal understanding?

Well, you cannot force people to seek understanding. Remember, these words; 'understanding' are just words, talk is cheap, they are only words Im using to describe something that is indescribable and elusive and who says words are the only vehicle? The mountains, the cosmos, they are all the 'word' of God. They only hint at something that only you as an individual can seek to discover for yourself, or not. You might find this in Islam, but if you only see it in Islam, then you have not really found anything, except another illusion.



Or how would you regard those Muslims with ambitious claims that they are still today following the Prophet Muhammad's Islam and therefore they have held onto the Universal Standard he legislated?


Well, I believe Mohammad was a reluctant leader. He only picked up a sword because survival and his conscience demanded it. People came to murder him because of his beliefs, so he had to sling swords. If he were alive today, he would be down with me and agree with alot of what I said. I regard those 'Muslims with ambitious claims' as idiots quite frankly. They read the words, but don't bother to try and understand the meaning or the intent with any type of objectivity or criticism. Knowledge and Wisdom are two seperate things. Knowledge dosnt necessarily lead to Wisdom and Wisdom isn't necessarily Knowledge. The cold hard truth about the World is that, its entirely up to yourself to discover, its a climb you must make on your own, not to just wait for a cd-rom to be inserted in your brain in the form of a political ideology, earthly pleasures, or a Bible or a Koran. Thats the micro-chip, thats the real 666 mark of the Beast.




Also, what about the time when the Prophet Muhammad was alive 1400 years ago and he was available to lay down a Universal standard for Islam that was understood and accepted.... how would you regard Islam at that time, would you agree it was a Universal standard at that time?


Well, it was the universal standard for Islam because it was the only standard for Islam. Even at that time, Islam meant different things to different people, because people's minds and hearts vary.  But I see alot in what Mohammad intended as good and in tradition with alot of other people at the forefront of the true enlightenment movement like Osiris, Jesus, Buddha...it is these similar themes that hint at a universal truth, if ever there was one...


So your saying that you feel Islam itself is an allusion or are you saying that the idea that there is a universal standard or application for Islam is an allusion


Islam can be an illusion and illusions can be universal, that is, they can be applied to the majority of mankind (McDonalds, official 9/11 story, Catholicism, Hollywood, etc) but dosn't mean they will be universally accepted. Also, some small illusions are OK, like Father Christmas and magic mushrooms, its the big ones that are a muthafucka!


Thats just my opinion of course. Peace brother.  ;) 



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To help bring the truth from beneath the surface
To help get the proof, from beneath the churches
To defeat shading, and complete the circle


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« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 04:03:08 AM by THE OVERFIEND »
 

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Re: Sex and Islamic Suicide Terrorism
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2007, 04:09:33 PM »

However, my friend, the Islam of the world outside of your heart is very much a religion of a people (Muslims), a place (the Mosque), a thing (the black stone, relics and stuff inside the Kaaba) and a time ( you pray five times daily, my friend?).

It is this Islam that is the illusion, not the Islam of your heart.


Maybe it would be helpful if we compared Islam to other world religions by looking at their names.  For example, "Christianity".  It is named after a man who lived on Earth who they refer to as Jesus Christ.  "Buddhism" is named after a man who lived on Earth known as Lord Budda.  "Judaism" is named after the tribe of Juddah.  Then you have "Lutherans" who are named after Martin Luthers break away from the mainstream Christian Church.

So as you see, all these religions are based on a person, place, or time.  However, the name "Islam" means submission to the Creator.  And "Muslim" is like "Mu-Islam" the "Mu" at the begining means "one who"...so it's saying "One who submits to the Creator".  Islam is not based upon any person, place or time.  Islam has been around for as long as God has been around, which is infinite, eternal, and absolute.  And the creation is proof of the Creator.  Muhammad is just a man in Islam, a Prophet, no different than thousands of other Prophets such as Moses, Jesus, Abraham, both known and unknown, that throughout time called people to worship of One God, and doing righteous deeds.

Verse 2:136

Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

Also, Islam exists with or without a mosque.  A Muslim does not need a mosque to pray, the whole Earth is a field for prayer.  And the black stone and Kabbah in Mekkah represent some of the oldest places of worship for Muslims, but they are not essential to our religion, a Muslim can worship anywhere on the Earth.  The 5 daily prayer times, are so that throughout the day we can maintain our submission to our Creator by refocusing on God at 5 points in each day and reminding ourselves of our higher purpose.


Now, how would you describe the brotherhood I feel after really getting to know this Sikh dude after a long time, or this Muslim girl or this other dude who don't even get down with religion? Mankind is my brotherhood, my friend. After-all, that’s the point, isn’t it?


I would describe it by saying this...  Yes, mankind is a brotherhood, and there are certain things that mankind shares in common.  But the brotherhood I've experienced since becoming a Muslim is far more intense then the general "brotherhood of mankind" that you mentioned.

So many things that we do as Muslims bring us closer together.  We pray at the same five points of the day, in rows, shoulder to shoulder and foot to foot and prostrate to our One God.  We all fast the same lunar month of Ramadaan.  We all make the attempt to leave everything behind once in our lives and gather in Mekkah for the Hajj season.  Those are just a few of many examples I could bring up.



Why do you have to pray in a certain direction, when God is in all directions?


Verse 2:177 of the Noble Qu'ran

Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves; and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat); and they keep their word whenever they make a promise; and they steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war. These are the truthful; these are the righteous.


Why must you even say a prayer outloud when God can hear it in your heart?


Thoughts have a power.  And actions also have a power.  If you just think about God, then yes, that we give you some spiritual benefit.  However, just thinking is not always enough.  But if you think about God, and combine that thinking with action, with the physical movement and prostrations of prayer, with saying these things out loud, with acting on them, joining with others in congregation... all these things add power to our spirituality and we vibrate at a higher level. 


Why must you only feel that brotherhood with other Muslims?


Sharing a commonality of beliefs and practices is automatically going to bring people closer together.  Their will be more to talk about, and also a deeper understanding that goes even without words. 

You can't expect to share the same closeness with someone that you don't have as much in common with.  You can try all you want, to go around and have brotherhood with all of mankind, but if they aren't making the same effort as you, then they will differ from you; and even if your trying to understand them, they won't understand you.

 

Well, you cannot force people to seek understanding. Remember, these words; 'understanding' are just words, talk is cheap, they are only words Im using to describe something that is indescribable and elusive and who says words are the only vehicle? The mountains, the cosmos, they are all the 'word' of God. They only hint at something that only you as an individual can seek to discover for yourself, or not. You might find this in Islam, but if you only see it in Islam, then you have not really found anything, except another illusion.


I think your misunderstanding the basic concept of Islam is that the creation submits to the Creator.  In that regard, just like you said, the cosmos, the mountains, the sun, the moon, the stars, all of the creation is "Muslim".  It seems we are saying the same thing here, but in a different way.


Well, I believe Mohammad was a reluctant leader. He only picked up a sword because survival and his conscience demanded it. People came to murder him because of his beliefs, so he had to sling swords. If he were alive today, he would be down with me and agree with alot of what I said. I regard those 'Muslims with ambitious claims' as idiots quite frankly. They read the words, but don't bother to try and understand the meaning or the intent with any type of objectivity or criticism. Knowledge and Wisdom are two seperate things. Knowledge dosnt necessarily lead to Wisdom and Wisdom isn't necessarily Knowledge. The cold hard truth about the World is that, its entirely up to yourself to discover, its a climb you must make on your own, not to just wait for a cd-rom to be inserted in your brain in the form of a political ideology, earthly pleasures, or a Bible or a Koran. Thats the micro-chip, thats the real 666 mark of the Beast.


I like what you said about knowledge and wisdom but I don't see what that has to do with the first half of your paragraph... "Muhammad slinging a sword".



Well, it was the universal standard for Islam because it was the only standard for Islam. Even at that time, Islam meant different things to different people, because people's minds and hearts vary.  But I see alot in what Mohammad intended as good and in tradition with alot of other people at the forefront of the true enlightenment movement like Osiris, Jesus, Buddha...it is these similar themes that hint at a universal truth, if ever there was one...


The Universal truth that God is One and religion is One, which is the foundational principal of Islam.


Out of Allah mercy, I speak these verses
To help bring the truth from beneath the surface
To help get the proof, from beneath the churches
To defeat shading, and complete the circle


-RZA, In The Name of Allah, off Cilvaringz' album, 1.


I love the Rza quote, I'll have to download that track. 

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I don't feel like you've answered my questions I posed for you.  Maybe by reading my responses you will better understand my questions.  I thought that you were going somewhere with your statements, but I think what I had in mind and what you had in mind was a little bit different; maybe because of our backgrounds, and you being on the outside of Islam looking in.  I am still curious to hear your perspective because it is thoughtful and enlightened, so I would like to further this convo if you have time and if we are able to move it forward and not go in circles.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 04:15:47 PM by Abdul-Infinite Presents...Islam In Africa... »
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