Author Topic: there is only one god  (Read 632 times)

QuietTruth

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2007, 02:21:15 PM »
One thang I don't get and I never will get is how somebody can't believe in God. :-\

I've got my reasons, QT. Do you? Because I never will understand how people can believe in a god. Peep game, because this is where it gets interesting:

Nah, I'm not knockin' you, I respect everybody's beliefs, no matter what chu believe.

But what have scientists proved though? They don't have any evidence that God doesn't exist. They tell you we evolved. Why can't they tell you about miracles though? Why can't they explain exorcisms? Why can't they explain spirits and physics? What they got to say about Angel sightings? They can tell you we was monkeys but they can't explain these Powers that God is known to carry. Word up or not??

If I was a catholic I would tell you, ya'll gonna be spending a hot minute in purgatory :D

Lol, I'm just playin'.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2007, 10:09:28 PM »
What's the matter with you? Everyone knows God isn't black.

I am Blackman.  I am GOD.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2007, 03:20:16 AM »
I like yo style, B. Killa is the alpha and omega nigga. Bow down!
 

Elevz

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2007, 03:53:00 AM »
But what have scientists proved though? They don't have any evidence that God doesn't exist.

Oh, so now the burden of proof about the existence of a God is on the scientists? Instead of the fallacy driven mystical religious books (and they say they're metaphorical, just to cover up the holes) blindly being assumed as the absolute truth, ratio is supposed to fight such a blind submission?
There is no way for ratio to overcome faith. Faith is not based on reality or based on facts, so what's logic going to do about that?

They tell you we evolved.

Based on a theory of good old Darwin, against which scientists have found no opposing evidence yet. Millions of scientists are confronted with this issue every day of their work, and the theory still stands strong. In fact, the further science evolves, the more obvious the truth behind Darwin's theory of evolution gets.
Remember that scientists rely on observable facts. What does that tell you?

Why can't they tell you about miracles though? Why can't they explain exorcisms? [...] What they got to say about Angel sightings?

And back to the mystical concept of religion. Since it isn't based on observable reality, the followers of religion are led to believe in things they can't see or witness, and which oppose the laws of nature. The result: some people become so highly affected as to believe in things such as exorcism, angel sightings and the like. Their sense of reality has cut loose from their minds. That's the brain thinking the senses have registered something. In science, that's called hallucinating. It's very much scientifically proved to be true, and it plays a huge role in psychology.


Why can't they explain spirits and physics?

Oh, but wait, that is also explained in psychology (which is also a science based on observable facts). What's left to be logically explained about a concept that's not observable? You only assume there is a duality between the spirit and the physical. What to think of neurological sciences, which provide insight in the activities of the brain concerning emotions, learning capabilities, language, visual insight, the connection between brain parts, the collaborating, et cetera? These have been objects of study for scientists for years. To dispose their observations and rational findings, only because of some unproven concept of a God, that's a crime against your own senses. Are you that lowly?


They can tell you we was monkeys but they can't explain these Powers that God is known to carry. Word up or not??

God isn't known to carry any powers. There are rational explanations for every mystical assumption. Every time we find some new miracle, it's only a matter of time before an explanation follows.

Thunderstorms used to be miracles. Diseases used to be miracles. Man found out the truth, and those miracles became just conditions. We've got cures for illness, yet back in the days illness was ascribed to the work of God.
Now the creation of the earth is a miracle. It's only a matter of time before science uncovers the truth. Until then we'll remain ignorant about it, but the concept of religion should be very clear to you by now.

In other words, no word up from me.

If I was a catholic I would tell you, ya'll gonna be spending a hot minute in purgatory :D

Just because I don't believe in religion, doesn't mean that I'm evil. I live as righteously as I can... By my own laws, my own conclusions about reality. They're not in conflict, as opposed to a religion which tells you to believe or be doomed. Cut down on your senses or sense the pain. But how are you going to experience pain, when you're ignorant of your senses?

Peace, QT! You're a honest dude. Props.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2007, 04:27:58 PM »
 ;D

And back to the mystical concept of religion. Since it isn't based on observable reality, the followers of religion are led to believe in things they can't see or witness, and which oppose the laws of nature. The result: some people become so highly affected as to believe in things such as exorcism, angel sightings and the like. Their sense of reality has cut loose from their minds. That's the brain thinking the senses have registered something. In science, that's called hallucinating. It's very much scientifically proved to be true, and it plays a huge role in psychology.


Why can't they explain spirits and physics?

Oh, but wait, that is also explained in psychology (which is also a science based on observable facts). What's left to be logically explained about a concept that's not observable? You only assume there is a duality between the spirit and the physical. What to think of neurological sciences, which provide insight in the activities of the brain concerning emotions, learning capabilities, language, visual insight, the connection between brain parts, the collaborating, et cetera? These have been objects of study for scientists for years. To dispose their observations and rational findings, only because of some unproven concept of a God, that's a crime against your own senses. Are you that lowly?

You don't believe in none of those thangs??

In other words, no word up from me.
:laugh:



I understand you got your beliefs, so I'm not tryin' to disrespect that. But you don't even believe in miracles??

All I'ma say is you should listen to some Mahalia Jackson, that'll make you want to believe. ;D Oh, and even Mariah Carey's Christmas album, since it's that time. Which actually what about Christmas time? Do you celebrate that shit?

Sorry homie, I'm not tryin to be disrespectful, I'm just curious.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2007, 07:32:09 PM »
Eleven 2 Three;

I've read through your responses to me and to others and it seems you fail to acknowledge your science is largely based on faith. I admit my faith. I believe letting an old woman struggle and not helping her when she needs it is evil and goes against what is God. I believe that Good To be God. It's a feeling. A system of beliefs. I can't prove it and I don't intend to try because it cannot be done. I believe the good inside everyone is there because of God. I believe that everyone anyone that does not feel the need to help that woman is struggling with evil and needs to get rid of that evil. How exactly one would do that I don't know. How exactly that evil got their I don't know. I just won't allow myself to believe that someone can be born with a set of values that mean allowing a helpless woman to suffer causes pleasure. These are my beliefs about life. Because that is how I feel inside.

You attempt to use psychology as an explanation for certain feelings. Where is there any proof in that science? Science is in large part religion. People see patterns and deduce from those patterns "laws" but any scientific law is only a theory. Newton's laws of physics make sense to us now and they may make sense to us forever. You want to shoot a falling monkey that is on the same plane as you are and you have to aim straight and the bullet will fall with the monkey and strike it. You take air out of the equation any two objects of any mass fall at the same rate. We call it gravity. A magnetic pull that causes the objects, the bullet, the monkey to fall. But a scientific law is definite. And we can't be definite. We cannot predict the future. We do not know that every object from this point on will always fall at the same rate. It sounds stupid I know. I get it a lot. David Humew explained it much better than I and he changed the language of science.

Gravity is a phenomenon that we can have named and observed but you can't see it or test it. We just know that when you let go of something it falls. It's pulled. Do you know for sure that it isn't pushed? Do you know for sure that it isn't an energetic order that decides that this object at this time will fall, but at any other time it could be ordered to not fall. There is no evidence that that will happen, YET. And they yet is the point. We cannot assume that it is impossible for that to ever happen.

Let's say it did happen. All of a sudden certain objects with nothing in particular in common started floating while others did not. Scientists would come up with various theories to explain it even though they wouldn't have any clue because Newton's Laws would cease to exist but they'd make something up and a consensus would occur and majority rule would give us a new theory. Al Gore would blame it Global Warming. But is that really that much more concrete than some yokel claiming it's God's way of punishing us or whatever he'd say? Is it really? Have you seen gravity? Have you touched it? Opened it up inside and tried to figure out how it works?

It's merely a phenomenon that we cannot see so we figure out ways to explain it. We agree on what is the most logical but we can never really figure it out. For someone to convince themselves that it is figured out is foolish. It's not much less foolish to claim to know the earth is warming because fossil fuels are being over used and too much carbon is in the air than it is to say God made it warmer for fun. One may seem more logical but we have no real studies of how the sun works from the inside and we can't say for sure that it's not just the sun going through a warming cycle that will cool in time. Believing in a certain science because it makes the most sense at the time is fine so long as you understand that it is faith in that science. Faith you cannot prove. Presenting that science as concrete fact and teaching it as such to people that don't know any better is no different than teaching about Adam and Eve.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2007, 07:37:49 PM »
Eleven 2 Three;

I've read through your responses to me and to others and it seems you fail to acknowledge your science is largely based on faith. I admit my faith. I believe letting an old woman struggle and not helping her when she needs it is evil and goes against what is God. I believe that Good To be God. It's a feeling. A system of beliefs. I can't prove it and I don't intend to try because it cannot be done. I believe the good inside everyone is there because of God. I believe that everyone anyone that does not feel the need to help that woman is struggling with evil and needs to get rid of that evil. How exactly one would do that I don't know. How exactly that evil got their I don't know. I just won't allow myself to believe that someone can be born with a set of values that mean allowing a helpless woman to suffer causes pleasure. These are my beliefs about life. Because that is how I feel inside.

You attempt to use psychology as an explanation for certain feelings. Where is there any proof in that science? Science is in large part religion. People see patterns and deduce from those patterns "laws" but any scientific law is only a theory. Newton's laws of physics make sense to us now and they may make sense to us forever. You want to shoot a falling monkey that is on the same plane as you are and you have to aim straight and the bullet will fall with the monkey and strike it. You take air out of the equation any two objects of any mass fall at the same rate. We call it gravity. A magnetic pull that causes the objects, the bullet, the monkey to fall. But a scientific law is definite. And we can't be definite. We cannot predict the future. We do not know that every object from this point on will always fall at the same rate. It sounds stupid I know. I get it a lot. David Humew explained it much better than I and he changed the language of science.

Gravity is a phenomenon that we can have named and observed but you can't see it or test it. We just know that when you let go of something it falls. It's pulled. Do you know for sure that it isn't pushed? Do you know for sure that it isn't an energetic order that decides that this object at this time will fall, but at any other time it could be ordered to not fall. There is no evidence that that will happen, YET. And they yet is the point. We cannot assume that it is impossible for that to ever happen.

Let's say it did happen. All of a sudden certain objects with nothing in particular in common started floating while others did not. Scientists would come up with various theories to explain it even though they wouldn't have any clue because Newton's Laws would cease to exist but they'd make something up and a consensus would occur and majority rule would give us a new theory. Al Gore would blame it Global Warming. But is that really that much more concrete than some yokel claiming it's God's way of punishing us or whatever he'd say? Is it really? Have you seen gravity? Have you touched it? Opened it up inside and tried to figure out how it works?

It's merely a phenomenon that we cannot see so we figure out ways to explain it. We agree on what is the most logical but we can never really figure it out. For someone to convince themselves that it is figured out is foolish. It's not much less foolish to claim to know the earth is warming because fossil fuels are being over used and too much carbon is in the air than it is to say God made it warmer for fun. One may seem more logical but we have no real studies of how the sun works from the inside and we can't say for sure that it's not just the sun going through a warming cycle that will cool in time. Believing in a certain science because it makes the most sense at the time is fine so long as you understand that it is faith in that science. Faith you cannot prove. Presenting that science as concrete fact and teaching it as such to people that don't know any better is no different than teaching about Adam and Eve.


what about all those formulas? i dont really get it bcuz arnt those proven laws??
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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2007, 07:53:43 PM »
Eleven 2 Three;

I've read through your responses to me and to others and it seems you fail to acknowledge your science is largely based on faith. I admit my faith. I believe letting an old woman struggle and not helping her when she needs it is evil and goes against what is God. I believe that Good To be God. It's a feeling. A system of beliefs. I can't prove it and I don't intend to try because it cannot be done. I believe the good inside everyone is there because of God. I believe that everyone anyone that does not feel the need to help that woman is struggling with evil and needs to get rid of that evil. How exactly one would do that I don't know. How exactly that evil got their I don't know. I just won't allow myself to believe that someone can be born with a set of values that mean allowing a helpless woman to suffer causes pleasure. These are my beliefs about life. Because that is how I feel inside.

You attempt to use psychology as an explanation for certain feelings. Where is there any proof in that science? Science is in large part religion. People see patterns and deduce from those patterns "laws" but any scientific law is only a theory. Newton's laws of physics make sense to us now and they may make sense to us forever. You want to shoot a falling monkey that is on the same plane as you are and you have to aim straight and the bullet will fall with the monkey and strike it. You take air out of the equation any two objects of any mass fall at the same rate. We call it gravity. A magnetic pull that causes the objects, the bullet, the monkey to fall. But a scientific law is definite. And we can't be definite. We cannot predict the future. We do not know that every object from this point on will always fall at the same rate. It sounds stupid I know. I get it a lot. David Humew explained it much better than I and he changed the language of science.

Gravity is a phenomenon that we can have named and observed but you can't see it or test it. We just know that when you let go of something it falls. It's pulled. Do you know for sure that it isn't pushed? Do you know for sure that it isn't an energetic order that decides that this object at this time will fall, but at any other time it could be ordered to not fall. There is no evidence that that will happen, YET. And they yet is the point. We cannot assume that it is impossible for that to ever happen.

Let's say it did happen. All of a sudden certain objects with nothing in particular in common started floating while others did not. Scientists would come up with various theories to explain it even though they wouldn't have any clue because Newton's Laws would cease to exist but they'd make something up and a consensus would occur and majority rule would give us a new theory. Al Gore would blame it Global Warming. But is that really that much more concrete than some yokel claiming it's God's way of punishing us or whatever he'd say? Is it really? Have you seen gravity? Have you touched it? Opened it up inside and tried to figure out how it works?

It's merely a phenomenon that we cannot see so we figure out ways to explain it. We agree on what is the most logical but we can never really figure it out. For someone to convince themselves that it is figured out is foolish. It's not much less foolish to claim to know the earth is warming because fossil fuels are being over used and too much carbon is in the air than it is to say God made it warmer for fun. One may seem more logical but we have no real studies of how the sun works from the inside and we can't say for sure that it's not just the sun going through a warming cycle that will cool in time. Believing in a certain science because it makes the most sense at the time is fine so long as you understand that it is faith in that science. Faith you cannot prove. Presenting that science as concrete fact and teaching it as such to people that don't know any better is no different than teaching about Adam and Eve.


what about all those formulas? i dont really get it bcuz arnt those proven laws??


Formulas that work, work. I'm not saying they don't work. I'm saying claiming to know they will always work is false but we cannot know that. How do we know the universe around us won't change and all of a sudden those formulas don't work. There is a reason why nothing is called a law in science any more. David Hume had large debates with the science community a couple hundred years back. Since then everything has been a theory. Science simply cannot predict the future.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2007, 08:04:22 PM »
can u send me a link where he explains this? if u can?
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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2007, 08:05:32 PM »
One god and his name is ALLAH.
 

7even

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2007, 09:40:36 AM »
Formulas that work, work. I'm not saying they don't work. I'm saying claiming to know they will always work is false but we cannot know that. How do we know the universe around us won't change and all of a sudden those formulas don't work. There is a reason why nothing is called a law in science any more. David Hume had large debates with the science community a couple hundred years back. Since then everything has been a theory. Science simply cannot predict the future.

Please don't bring the great David Hume in to argue in favor of faith and religion. Homie would turn in his grave.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2007, 10:10:49 AM »
Formulas that work, work. I'm not saying they don't work. I'm saying claiming to know they will always work is false but we cannot know that. How do we know the universe around us won't change and all of a sudden those formulas don't work. There is a reason why nothing is called a law in science any more. David Hume had large debates with the science community a couple hundred years back. Since then everything has been a theory. Science simply cannot predict the future.

Please don't bring the great David Hume in to argue in favor of faith and religion. Homie would turn in his grave.


I'm not arguing in favour of my faith or religion. I'm not trying to convince anyome of thinking the way I think. I am trying to eplain to people that much of science is based on faith and religion. Not Christianity or Judaism but Science itself being faith and religion. The big bang is taught in schools as if it is concrete fact. I'm not arguing that God should be taught in science but that science should be taught truthfully. If you can't prove something scientifically it has no place being taught as anything more than a possible theory. Scientists know this. They don't go around knowing that is how the world was created. But students in high schools aren't taught it that way.

Evolution for example is currently the most likely scenario based on what we know with the information we have and the more information we get further helps the evoltion argument but to assume that there is no way new information will arise that gives us another theory is absurd. We cannot predict the future. Shit we can't even be sure of the past. Carbon dating goes haywire once we try studying things over 5000 years old or so. There is so much we don't know. So much that could completely change are way of thinking. To assume we have it right is stupid.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2007, 11:36:55 AM »
Shallow, you talk too much.  You can get your hands chopped off for speaking the way you do.  Your death will be most unpleasant.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2007, 11:45:49 AM »
Shallow, you talk too much.  You can get your hands chopped off for speaking the way you do.  Your death will be most unpleasant.


Then who is going to be your inside spy?
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2007, 11:46:37 AM »
Shallow, you talk too much.  You can get your hands chopped off for speaking the way you do.  Your death will be most unpleasant.


Then who is going to be your inside spy?

Someone black, of course.
 

Elevz

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2007, 12:48:05 PM »
I understand you got your beliefs, so I'm not tryin' to disrespect that. But you don't even believe in miracles??

Why should I believe in something that goes right against all laws of logic? Even if I witnessed a miracle, it's more likely that I would doubt my own sanity before believing what I witnessed is actually true.

All I'ma say is you should listen to some Mahalia Jackson, that'll make you want to believe. ;D Oh, and even Mariah Carey's Christmas album, since it's that time. Which actually what about Christmas time? Do you celebrate that shit?

Sorry homie, I'm not tryin to be disrespectful, I'm just curious.

Just because I'm not religious, doesn't mean I have no beliefs. I believe in a whole lot of stuff. I wouldn't be breathing if I didn't believe. I believe in people. That's also what makes my Christmas enjoyable, so surely I celebrate that by going out for dinner with my special lady, and having a good time with the family, with presents and all.

I don't see any disrespect! In fact, props for being so curious haha

I'll get back to the rest of the replies later, I'm kinda busy right now.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2007, 09:17:02 AM »
I understand you got your beliefs, so I'm not tryin' to disrespect that. But you don't even believe in miracles??

Why should I believe in something that goes right against all laws of logic? Even if I witnessed a miracle, it's more likely that I would doubt my own sanity before believing what I witnessed is actually true.
That's interesting, lol. It's happened before when a blind man, suddenly get's his eyesight back. That's unexplained. And prolly will be forever. You know what I'm sayin'? Like there's no explanation for that shit except by the Grace of God. That's a fuckin' miracle. And you don't believe in those? That's the first time I ever heard that, lol.

All I'ma say is you should listen to some Mahalia Jackson, that'll make you want to believe. ;D Oh, and even Mariah Carey's Christmas album, since it's that time. Which actually what about Christmas time? Do you celebrate that shit?

Sorry homie, I'm not tryin to be disrespectful, I'm just curious.

Just because I'm not religious, doesn't mean I have no beliefs. I believe in a whole lot of stuff. I wouldn't be breathing if I didn't believe. I believe in people. That's also what makes my Christmas enjoyable, so surely I celebrate that by going out for dinner with my special lady, and having a good time with the family, with presents and all.
That's what confuses me though. I don't know.


I don't see any disrespect! In fact, props for being so curious haha

I'll get back to the rest of the replies later, I'm kinda busy right now.
Aight cool, I didn't want you to think I'm tryin' to get all in your personal shit and everythang. Lol.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2007, 12:11:35 PM »
David Hume
 
" I am apt to suspect the negroes and in general all the other species of men (for there are four or five different kinds) to be naturally inferior to the whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufactures amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the whites, such as the ancient Germans, the present Tartars, have still something eminent about them, in their valour, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen, in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negroe slaves dispersed all over Europe, of which none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; tho' low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica indeed they talk of one negroe as a man of parts and learning; but ‘tis likely he is admired for very slender accomplishments, like a parrot, who speaks a few words plainly.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2007, 12:53:34 PM »
David Hume
 
" I am apt to suspect the negroes and in general all the other species of men (for there are four or five different kinds) to be naturally inferior to the whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufactures amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the whites, such as the ancient Germans, the present Tartars, have still something eminent about them, in their valour, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen, in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negroe slaves dispersed all over Europe, of which none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; tho' low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica indeed they talk of one negroe as a man of parts and learning; but ‘tis likely he is admired for very slender accomplishments, like a parrot, who speaks a few words plainly.


I never said he was Jesus. 7even was the one that called him great. I just brought up a debate he had with the science community. The content of one's character has no effect on the man's contributions or arguments. If Isaac Newton was found out to be a pedophile would that change his contribution to science? Hume is either a deep rooted racist or a victim of his times and what he saw. Either way that doesn't change the fact that science cannot study what hasn't happened yet. This all stems from positivism; that only through strict scientific menthod and study can something be considered science. The idea that if something isn't tested over and over again it cannot be true science. My argument takes it a step futher in saying that even the tried, tested, and true can change is the world changes and there is no way in knowing whether the world will change or not.
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2007, 01:40:06 PM »
1. You have to put this racist paragraph into timely context. Back when Hume lived that type of thinking wasn't tabu at all.
2. You should not condemn a person because of one issue you heavily disagree with. There's hundreds of texts by him that I can guarantee you would not be nearly as fed up with.

People too often rely on discrediting the person when they can't refute the argument.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

white Boy

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2007, 04:19:31 PM »
^ if thats towards me, i just wikipedied the guy, and thought that was interesting, i like his universe of imagination shit, trippy stuff
 

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2007, 05:37:52 PM »
Allah says no.


But all black men are God and Cam Ron is a black man. You hypocrite.

theres no such thing as blasphemy,  thats just an old censor on free speech and free thought.....  fuck religion, spirituality is whats important


Sure Blasphemy is real. What God is exactly is unknown but God is good, meaning what is good is God. The spiritual energy that creates love is what God is. So going against what is right when you know it to be right and choosing to go against it regardless is what blasphemy is. Simply saying something stupid like "Fuck God", or walking around the mall with a T shirt with giant letters printed on that say "Jesus is a Cunt" (I saw it once in tha mall last summer) is not blasphemy, it's just idiocy; dumb kids trying to get attention. Even being upest with God for the rain that destroyed all your crops and coming out while it's raining with a shot gun and shooting the skies in an attempt to wound God or threaten him to keep him from letting more rain fall (I had a great uncle in Greece that did that once) is not blasphemy. It's simply being fucking pissed off, and a little nuts from what I understand. These may be all sins but they are not blasphemy. Blasphemy is watching an old woman fall right in front of you with no one else and around and watching her struggle to get up and you know you should help but you just stand there and watch because you don't want to help because you want to see her struggle and get hurt. That is going against everything that is right. Everything that is God. That is blasphemy.

say in a  life threating situation dont most people that r athiest say help me god anyways?
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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2007, 06:00:18 PM »
^ LOL, and I bet 'God Bless You' when they sneeze.
 

Elevz

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2007, 04:48:18 AM »
Eleven 2 Three;

I've read through your responses to me and to others and it seems you fail to acknowledge your science is largely based on faith. I admit my faith. I believe letting an old woman struggle and not helping her when she needs it is evil and goes against what is God. I believe that Good To be God. It's a feeling. A system of beliefs. I can't prove it and I don't intend to try because it cannot be done. I believe the good inside everyone is there because of God. I believe that everyone anyone that does not feel the need to help that woman is struggling with evil and needs to get rid of that evil. How exactly one would do that I don't know. How exactly that evil got their I don't know. I just won't allow myself to believe that someone can be born with a set of values that mean allowing a helpless woman to suffer causes pleasure. These are my beliefs about life. Because that is how I feel inside.

You attempt to use psychology as an explanation for certain feelings. Where is there any proof in that science? Science is in large part religion. People see patterns and deduce from those patterns "laws" but any scientific law is only a theory. Newton's laws of physics make sense to us now and they may make sense to us forever. You want to shoot a falling monkey that is on the same plane as you are and you have to aim straight and the bullet will fall with the monkey and strike it. You take air out of the equation any two objects of any mass fall at the same rate. We call it gravity. A magnetic pull that causes the objects, the bullet, the monkey to fall. But a scientific law is definite. And we can't be definite. We cannot predict the future. We do not know that every object from this point on will always fall at the same rate. It sounds stupid I know. I get it a lot. David Humew explained it much better than I and he changed the language of science.

People aren't born with any set of values. Humans are tabula rasa at the moment of fertilisation (for as far as we know - the truth may be slightly off but not far). Everything after that is part of the development of the person, in the same way a person continues to develop until they die. It's an endless circle of maintaining and creating or healing the body, and likewise developing the brains. That's also when the whole concept of good and bad commences: human beings learn what is good for them and what not, through observation, perception and interpretation. You experience pain and draw the conclusion that the experience was not enjoyable. You look for what caused the pain, and decided that cause is to be avoided. Thus begins the whole learning process of the creation of values.

Human observation (not to even mention perception and interpretation) is far from flawless. I'm well aware of the concepts of epistemology and ontology; make no mistake about me knowing that science isn't definite. It is however the closest approach available to understanding reality. The generally accepted findings of science have proved themselves to be the most accurate approach of reality. The very same thing goes for psychology, which as you put is even more based on assumptions than most other sciences. Falsifiable theories and hypotheses about what might be possible are tested. The ones that aren't rejected remain standing and form the basis of more theories. Just because psychology is a stunningly complex field of science, doesn't mean that everything in it is disposable. Remember that psychology (and its predecessors) have placed the fundaments of everything that mankind is today. If it weren't for psychology, your parents wouldn't have known how to raise you. Behavior and development would have been mysteries. Civilization would have been none. So is it irrational to believe in the approaches of psychology? I think it's the most rational option available. Just because science isn't absolute doesn't mean that it's disposable.

Gravity is a phenomenon that we can have named and observed but you can't see it or test it. We just know that when you let go of something it falls. It's pulled. Do you know for sure that it isn't pushed? Do you know for sure that it isn't an energetic order that decides that this object at this time will fall, but at any other time it could be ordered to not fall. There is no evidence that that will happen, YET. And they yet is the point. We cannot assume that it is impossible for that to ever happen.

Let's say it did happen. All of a sudden certain objects with nothing in particular in common started floating while others did not. Scientists would come up with various theories to explain it even though they wouldn't have any clue because Newton's Laws would cease to exist but they'd make something up and a consensus would occur and majority rule would give us a new theory. Al Gore would blame it Global Warming. But is that really that much more concrete than some yokel claiming it's God's way of punishing us or whatever he'd say? Is it really? Have you seen gravity? Have you touched it? Opened it up inside and tried to figure out how it works?

What's the difference between pushing and pulling? The origins of the energy don't change the effects of the phenomenon. That's what science has proved: the closer you get to the center of the earth (or any grativational object for that matter), the stronger the energy becomes. It has proved to be constant thus far, which doesn't say anything about a possible change in the future, but judging from the way things have developed up until now, there's no change in sight.

Scientifical theories provide you with the insight to provide a prediction of the future. That doesn't mean those predictions will necessarily have to come true. Science is only an approach of reality; it is flawed after all.

Let's say it did happen. All of a sudden certain objects with nothing in particular in common started floating while others did not. Scientists would come up with various theories to explain it even though they wouldn't have any clue because Newton's Laws would cease to exist but they'd make something up and a consensus would occur and majority rule would give us a new theory. Al Gore would blame it Global Warming. But is that really that much more concrete than some yokel claiming it's God's way of punishing us or whatever he'd say? Is it really? Have you seen gravity? Have you touched it? Opened it up inside and tried to figure out how it works?


It's merely a phenomenon that we cannot see so we figure out ways to explain it. We agree on what is the most logical but we can never really figure it out. For someone to convince themselves that it is figured out is foolish. It's not much less foolish to claim to know the earth is warming because fossil fuels are being over used and too much carbon is in the air than it is to say God made it warmer for fun. One may seem more logical but we have no real studies of how the sun works from the inside and we can't say for sure that it's not just the sun going through a warming cycle that will cool in time. Believing in a certain science because it makes the most sense at the time is fine so long as you understand that it is faith in that science. Faith you cannot prove. Presenting that science as concrete fact and teaching it as such to people that don't know any better is no different than teaching about Adam and Eve.

Let's not say it did happen. Let's say monkeys are blue, human beings are immortal, Martians landed in Indonesia the oher day and George W. Bush goes fishing every weekend with his dead grandmother (who was immortal after all?).

We don't know what will happen in the future, but to assume gravity might change its course all of a sudden is simply ridiculous. What use is it to take all those possibilities into account, whilst knowing by reason that the chance of them actually happening is second to none?

Al Gore is not a scientist. He's only a person trying to be noticed by the public, and he's doing a good job at that. You might as well compare him to the 'yokel who claims it's God's way'.

As soon as a theory in science is falsified, the theorists who based their ideas on that original theory, will have to go back to the drawing table and revise their ideas. They'll have to start testing their hypotheses all over again, and probably look for new explanations to be tested. That's all there is to it.

To ascribe phenomena as an act of God has always been the easy way out. "I don't know, maybe God knows. I'm too ignorant and lowly to know. I shouldn't challenge God's ways, as it will lead to nothing." That's a submissive attitude that's far from helping mankind to develop. It's mental suicide. It is to denounce your own thinking and to disqualify the capabilities of mankind on a whole. It's a rejection of everything man has achieved. That's misanthropy at its finest.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: there is only one god
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2007, 07:31:57 AM »
What pisses me off about Atheists is that they get dumb and disrespectful. I don't disrespect, unless I am first. This prolly doesn't even apply to any of ya'll on this board who don't have in faith in God anyways but here's what I can't stand.

They somehow think they have 'power'. Taking mangers of The Green is unnecessary to THEM. You don't believe in NOTHING, why should you care?? You don't believe than you shouldn't care if it doesn't apply to you. We don't say, 'Atheists you are not allowed to practice atheism', WE DON'T say that, so what gives YOU the right to tell us. You don't believe in God so you just simply ignore, JUST LIKE everythang else in the world. If somebody you don't like shops in the store you work at, you ignore them, you don't ban them and say, 'hey, you can't shop here'! They are taking away OUR rights becuz they don't agree with them. That's wrong! Soon, Christmas music will be banned from playin' in stores becuz they say the word Jesus. Sorry, I apologize, but that pisses me off. I understand you have rights, and we accept that, BUT you are taking away ours, slowly. And I don't accept that.

Taking down The Declaration Of Independence and taking down the Bill Of Rights out of classrooms is fuckin' nonsense niggas. Nonsense! Becuz to them that teaches spirituality?? Get the FUCK outta here! That's our History. That the fuckin' U.S. history. It's gettin' ridiculous.

I hope I'm dead before it get's worse, not even playin'. I don't know what this world is comin' too. You have the right you practice what you want. But guess what? So do we.

I mean are the fuckin' holidays next? I mean really are they? Or is that a nah, BECUZ they celebrate that shit. Christmas is Jesus's Birthday, Easter is when is rose, how do ya'll sit and celebrate that shit after you just threw damn near a tantrum becuz the world believes in God.

Everywhere there's appreciation. The manger is on The Green, right next to the Hanukkah candle light, maybe there's nothing for you, and that's becuz you don't believe in it. So do you see where I'm coming from? They disrespecting me now. They taking away my rights.

Again, this prolly don't apply to ya'll, but you best tell your fellow believers to chill out for a second and think.