Author Topic: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government  (Read 372 times)

7even

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2008, 05:46:09 PM »

You are cool 7even and what I said is not addressed to you exactly, was merely responding to you mentioned Marx in a non negative light. I am just saying there are many menacing undertones to Marx's communist manifesto and then there are just the downright sick points in it like describing the family as the enemy, the evil, submit to the state, take the kids to indoctrination centres because the state will love you. I actually felt really sick after reading that manifesto, hence the reason why I addressed people that like communism in 3 groups. I never suggested you liked communism!

I like Marx for other things that don't involve communism, like his criticism on religion for instance. I never heard of those extreme and absurd points you just mentioned. Where have you heard that? Engel interpreted Marx' "Capital" and he made some mistakes. Later people never looked at Marx' Capital, but at the interpretation of Engel.
The problem is you can't take political positions of people who died long ago without a grain of salt, as the world and the circumstances were very different then. You also can't blame them for future politicians who later abused their doctrines for their own agendas. Honestly, from what I have read of Marx I can't imagine him writing the stuff you mentioned. He was a revolutionary, pro-proletarian thinker, I have a hard time envisioning him saying stuff that promotes unconditional submission to the state. In fact I reckon the manifest included points like abolishment of child labour and free education for everybody.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

virtuoso

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2008, 06:08:10 PM »

Ive downloaded it again, will re read though it and then tell you. I might be wrong and it might have been some alternate communist doctrine I had read but will admit if I am wrong but anyways, the crux of my response to this thread, comes in my first rant  ;D
 

7even

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2008, 06:35:29 PM »

Ive downloaded it again, will re read though it and then tell you. I might be wrong and it might have been some alternate communist doctrine I had read but will admit if I am wrong but anyways, the crux of my response to this thread, comes in my first rant  ;D

I agree with a lot of things stated in your long post, however, I am still not a fan of economic neo-liberalism. You think it's bad now, and it is, yet I am sure that no difficult western country can succeed without an income tax, and the US sure as hell is a difficult country. Countries like Norway, Finland or Switzerland MIGHT have a shot at trying to significantly reduce taxes and thrive. From my perspective, America does not.

I see your main issue with everything is basically how a small influential group of people is pulling the strings and controlling the masses. But the income tax is not the reason for that. It will always be like this, no matter what you do, they will always find a way. Either that or plain chaos. I hate 1984 as much as you, but I'd hate civil war even more.


As for the people complaining about tax money being wasted on bullshit, people have different values, that's what it is. Some people think it's great to spend money on renovating a church, others could care less and have it rather spent on renovating a bunch of liquor stores. Some people hate imperialistic foreign policies and don't want to see tax money spent on weapons, military and war, when others would love to bomb the shit out of the entire middle east. People are different, the government can't just focus on you as an individual.

As for the people who think people would use their money on things that are actually important if they had not to pay any income tax. I have to say you are either very naive or very idealistic. I think that is bullshit. For anybody spending his money wisely and in favor or the community, there would be 10 idiots doing complete bullshit with it (like losing it all on gambling, then dying on the street when they become old) and another 30 people being completely selfish with it.

Look up "prisoner's dilemma" in google. People are not made for this kind of life.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

virtuoso

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2008, 06:40:10 PM »
The selfish misconception that induces you to transform into eternal laws of nature and of reason, the social forms springing from your present mode of production and form of property – historical relations that rise and disappear in the progress of production – this misconception you share with every ruling class that has preceded you. What you see clearly in the case of ancient property, what you admit in the case of feudal property, you are of course forbidden to admit in the case of your own bourgeois form of property.

    Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists.

    On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution.

    The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.

    Do you charge us with wanting to stop the exploitation of children by their parents? To this crime we plead guilty.

    But, you say, we destroy the most hallowed of relations, when we replace home education by social.

    And your education! Is not that also social, and determined by the social conditions under which you educate, by the intervention direct or indirect, of society, by means of schools, &c.? The Communists have not invented the intervention of society in education; they do but seek to alter the character of that intervention, and to rescue education from the influence of the ruling class.

    The bourgeois clap-trap about the family and education, about the hallowed co-relation of parents and child, becomes all the more disgusting, the more, by the action of Modern Industry, all the family ties among the proletarians are torn asunder, and their children transformed into simple articles of commerce and instruments of labour.

I interpret that as ...the middle class are evil, we need to focus upon indoctrinating the younger generation with our message of total submission to the state and we need to sever the ties that bind the middle class parents with their children (in fact fuck it, they just said it themselves in the abolition of the family). The entire manifesto is based around key intentions all of which involve complete centralisation based around the reassurance of don't worry the state will administer and look after you. Only instead, as is illustrated in a terrific book call Harvest Of Sorrow in which Ukranian farmers with a slight independence were described as the Kulaks (bourgeoise) we need to smash these people and prevent them from looking after themselves, they should be producing grain for the greater good of the soviet union. Sobasically they seized all of their grain, millions starved to death and when they got rid of those people, the ones below them, were suddenly Kulaks in their eyes to.  Aspects of communism would work in a utopian society where literal angels ran the state but instead it is the doctrine for evil.

I agree with you, that income tax isn't the only way, it's one of several ways. there are many strings to their bow but I was just illustrating how the wealth is really controlled, as opposed to people who think a million is something, it's chump change to these people. In fact the communism comparison begins to slowly become more and more apparent, as the authoritarian nature of this western society tightens it's grip. Some of have said that communism and capitalism were created to give people false paradigms, I don't know if the same group of people were the brain childs behind both, but nothing would surprise me anymore.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 01:53:50 AM by virtuoso »
 

7even

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2008, 06:50:53 PM »
^^^With communism the situation is similiar to a dictatorship, in a utopian world with literal angels as the leaders, it would be pretty damn good. As this is never the case, both systems serve as tools for the evil. But I really don't want to talk about this communism stuff right now.


Here's more to the issue at hand:

Another very important aspect is the fact that you can't solve structural problems through individuals. The government is there to solve those kind of structural problems that individuals simply can not fix. By reducing taxes dramatically you take away the government's ability to do so. You shift the responsibilty towards the individual, which can never work for a number of reasons.

Let me tell you a little story:

There was this western dude, with western values and western morality. He was a business man, and on a business trip he went to India. Waking up in his hotel room, he got ready for a meeting and as soon as he stepped out of his room he saw a baby placed in front of it. He didn't understand what was going on. He asked people from the hotel who told him that this is a normal thing, families can't afford kids financially so they put them in front of doors of wealthy people. He was shocked as he could not understand how something so terrible could be considered normal and acceptable. He asked what he could do to help the baby, and he was told that he can give it to a church for 50 dollars. The church then takes care of it until it becomes 14 years old. Happier than ever, he willingly paid the church the 50 bucks, went back to the hotel and went to sleep with a smile on his face.

The next day, he opens his door and there are 40 babies in front of it.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2008, 06:59:01 PM »
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.

If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.

Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.

I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.

well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?

Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.

Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).

I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.
 

Laconic

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2008, 10:16:54 PM »
Karl Marx was a satanist.  It is a documented fact.

Dropper

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2008, 11:38:31 PM »
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.

If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.

Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.

I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.

well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?

Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.

Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).

I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.

Yea, its prbably better to just give up.... cuz people in the past who've helped make change just gave up because they felt "Oh what can one person do." Thats how things get done. By giving up.
 

Shallow

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2008, 08:27:40 AM »
^^^With communism the situation is similiar to a dictatorship, in a utopian world with literal angels as the leaders, it would be pretty damn good. As this is never the case, both systems serve as tools for the evil. But I really don't want to talk about this communism stuff right now.


Here's more to the issue at hand:

Another very important aspect is the fact that you can't solve structural problems through individuals. The government is there to solve those kind of structural problems that individuals simply can not fix. By reducing taxes dramatically you take away the government's ability to do so. You shift the responsibilty towards the individual, which can never work for a number of reasons.

Let me tell you a little story:

There was this western dude, with western values and western morality. He was a business man, and on a business trip he went to India. Waking up in his hotel room, he got ready for a meeting and as soon as he stepped out of his room he saw a baby placed in front of it. He didn't understand what was going on. He asked people from the hotel who told him that this is a normal thing, families can't afford kids financially so they put them in front of doors of wealthy people. He was shocked as he could not understand how something so terrible could be considered normal and acceptable. He asked what he could do to help the baby, and he was told that he can give it to a church for 50 dollars. The church then takes care of it until it becomes 14 years old. Happier than ever, he willingly paid the church the 50 bucks, went back to the hotel and went to sleep with a smile on his face.

The next day, he opens his door and there are 40 babies in front of it.


Nothing you said explains how the US strived and expanded for so long before any incoe tax was brought into the picture. Marxism is a proven failure. Where are the proven failures of anarcho-capitalism?
 

7even

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2008, 11:44:03 AM »
Anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist yet, so of course I can't show you a history book to prove its failures.

But I can sure as hell show you how the failures already show off in regular capitalism: Companies move east, westeners lose their jobs and everything that comes with that (less wealth, less people buying stuff, bad for economy, bad for the government etc)

That is just one of many examples. Anarcho-capitalism can suck my dick. Such a concept can end in civil war. Most people don't have enough income, responsibility, discipline or intellect to handle all the stuff the government handles for them.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2008, 01:07:41 PM »
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.

If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.

Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.

I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.

well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?

Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.

Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).

I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.

Yea, its prbably better to just give up.... cuz people in the past who've helped make change just gave up because they felt "Oh what can one person do." Thats how things get done. By giving up.

Its not about giving up, its about being realistic. People nowadays are too lazy or just blind to the facts to give a fuck about anything enough to rally around a cause. They would rather watch American Idol for the rest of their lives. Until you can get rid of or drastically reduce the amount of media/entertainment available, people are not going to get off their ass and do anything. Especially when you consider that all the mainstream news outlets are run by the people in charge, and they are going to make sure they scare people into doing what they want at the right times and tremendously downplay or even outright ignore serious issues that affect us all. Until people get a lot smarter and a lot less lazy, shit will not change.
 

LooN3y

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2008, 01:19:49 PM »
i believe we already are doomed. if ron paul couldnt change being an expreianced politician that he is, than i believe no one person can change anything
818

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Dropper

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2008, 02:01:34 PM »
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.

If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.

Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.

I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.

well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?

Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.

Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).

I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.

Yea, its prbably better to just give up.... cuz people in the past who've helped make change just gave up because they felt "Oh what can one person do." Thats how things get done. By giving up.

Its not about giving up, its about being realistic. People nowadays are too lazy or just blind to the facts to give a fuck about anything enough to rally around a cause. They would rather watch American Idol for the rest of their lives. Until you can get rid of or drastically reduce the amount of media/entertainment available, people are not going to get off their ass and do anything. Especially when you consider that all the mainstream news outlets are run by the people in charge, and they are going to make sure they scare people into doing what they want at the right times and tremendously downplay or even outright ignore serious issues that affect us all. Until people get a lot smarter and a lot less lazy, shit will not change.

Yea i feel what you saying homie. But, if people like yourself, who knows what's going on, dont act, then no one else will.
 

Shallow

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2008, 05:56:02 PM »
Anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist yet, so of course I can't show you a history book to prove its failures.

But I can sure as hell show you how the failures already show off in regular capitalism: Companies move east, westeners lose their jobs and everything that comes with that (less wealth, less people buying stuff, bad for economy, bad for the government etc)

That is just one of many examples. Anarcho-capitalism can suck my dick. Such a concept can end in civil war. Most people don't have enough income, responsibility, discipline or intellect to handle all the stuff the government handles for them.


So then how did the US strive with no income tax? You still haven't answered that.
 

Turf Hitta

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2008, 06:02:17 PM »
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.

If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.

Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.

I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.

well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?

Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.

Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).

I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.

Yea, its prbably better to just give up.... cuz people in the past who've helped make change just gave up because they felt "Oh what can one person do." Thats how things get done. By giving up.

Its not about giving up, its about being realistic. People nowadays are too lazy or just blind to the facts to give a fuck about anything enough to rally around a cause. They would rather watch American Idol for the rest of their lives. Until you can get rid of or drastically reduce the amount of media/entertainment available, people are not going to get off their ass and do anything. Especially when you consider that all the mainstream news outlets are run by the people in charge, and they are going to make sure they scare people into doing what they want at the right times and tremendously downplay or even outright ignore serious issues that affect us all. Until people get a lot smarter and a lot less lazy, shit will not change.

Yea i feel what you saying homie. But, if people like yourself, who knows what's going on, dont act, then no one else will.

Fair enough, but what can we do? How do you go about it? its gonna take a lot more than a few posts  on the dubcc TOT board.
 

7even

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2008, 06:49:44 PM »
Anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist yet, so of course I can't show you a history book to prove its failures.

But I can sure as hell show you how the failures already show off in regular capitalism: Companies move east, westeners lose their jobs and everything that comes with that (less wealth, less people buying stuff, bad for economy, bad for the government etc)

That is just one of many examples. Anarcho-capitalism can suck my dick. Such a concept can end in civil war. Most people don't have enough income, responsibility, discipline or intellect to handle all the stuff the government handles for them.


So then how did the US strive with no income tax? You still haven't answered that.

Listen my nigga, I know you don't like me and everything, but there is no need for pointless arguing. I have made a shitload of substantial points in this thread, if you disagree fine, but please respect it. The situation with the US from way back in the day is not comparable to right now. Slavery comes to mind.

Moral hazards are a problem, but abolishing the income tax alltogether is not the answer.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Shallow

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2008, 08:18:04 AM »
Anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist yet, so of course I can't show you a history book to prove its failures.

But I can sure as hell show you how the failures already show off in regular capitalism: Companies move east, westeners lose their jobs and everything that comes with that (less wealth, less people buying stuff, bad for economy, bad for the government etc)

That is just one of many examples. Anarcho-capitalism can suck my dick. Such a concept can end in civil war. Most people don't have enough income, responsibility, discipline or intellect to handle all the stuff the government handles for them.


So then how did the US strive with no income tax? You still haven't answered that.

Listen my nigga, I know you don't like me and everything, but there is no need for pointless arguing. I have made a shitload of substantial points in this thread, if you disagree fine, but please respect it. The situation with the US from way back in the day is not comparable to right now. Slavery comes to mind.

Moral hazards are a problem, but abolishing the income tax alltogether is not the answer.


Since when do I not like you?

Your points against anarcho-capitalism are fine, but the federal income tax in the US was not present for 50 years after slavery and it still to this day only brings in a third of federal revenue. Cut all the overseas spending and you'll be fine.
 

7even

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2008, 06:27:15 PM »
It looks like we're getting to something. First you were like people need to smarten up, take the L and try to get by without redistribution and the stuff the government takes care of and organizes for them. Now you only want to have the spending overseas to be affected by the tax cut. That's something I am more comfortable with, however, I want to know what exactly are you thinking of then you say overseas? There's only 2 reasonable things I can think of right now, being war and aid. With that said, free oil won't hurt in the long run and most aid that goes to third world countries is protectionism that is ruining exactly those "helped" countries in the long run. Both things are in a very cruel way good for the US, and thus worth spending. (From a mean point of view)
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Shallow

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2008, 06:59:44 PM »
It looks like we're getting to something. First you were like people need to smarten up, take the L and try to get by without redistribution and the stuff the government takes care of and organizes for them. Now you only want to have the spending overseas to be affected by the tax cut. That's something I am more comfortable with, however, I want to know what exactly are you thinking of then you say overseas? There's only 2 reasonable things I can think of right now, being war and aid. With that said, free oil won't hurt in the long run and most aid that goes to third world countries is protectionism that is ruining exactly those "helped" countries in the long run. Both things are in a very cruel way good for the US, and thus worth spending. (From a mean point of view)


Ultimately I do believe in anarch-capitalism, but I don't think we can jump right into it. You need stages. And untamed people first need a dictatorship or monarchy to create the order, from there you move to a capitalist  parliamentary democracy or republic, and then I believe the next step is an anarcho-capitalist true plebiscite based democracy. And to move from one stage to the next you'd need education to advance. I think it plebiscite votes are taken with a 5 question pamphlet and only those votes with at least 3 of 5 correct cont would be a good start.

Anyway, I meant overseas miltary operations in the US can be completely cut and right away nearly 70% of the third the income tax brings in is coverd. From there you can cut things like the Department of Education and the IRS and that trillion dollars will no longer be needed. One step at a time if you want to move towards real freedom.
 

7even

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2008, 07:57:04 PM »
I don't think that there is a perfect regime. Every system has its flaws. Some lack praticability, some lack the right economic incentives, some are simply inefficient, etc... Therefore the flaws I see in anarcho-capitalism aren't automatically making this system terrible. I just think that the US is already capitalistic enough, what would happen if one tried to make steps towards your proposal can't be anticipated precisely enough, there are too many intangibles and shit... I just don't think it would "work". You can have a different opinion. What I don't accept, however, is when people flat out say "yo, abolishing the income tax would be tight as fuck mayne, I'd be ballin my nigga"... that's just ignorant.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 07:59:49 PM by 7even »
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Shallow

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2008, 08:54:49 PM »
I don't think that there is a perfect regime. Every system has its flaws. Some lack praticability, some lack the right economic incentives, some are simply inefficient, etc... Therefore the flaws I see in anarcho-capitalism aren't automatically making this system terrible. I just think that the US is already capitalistic enough, what would happen if one tried to make steps towards your proposal can't be anticipated precisely enough, there are too many intangibles and shit... I just don't think it would "work". You can have a different opinion. What I don't accept, however, is when people flat out say "yo, abolishing the income tax would be tight as fuck mayne, I'd be ballin my nigga"... that's just ignorant.


Anarcho can never be perfect. I just think a free market would be "better" than the current US system. Keep in mind I also don't agree with intellectual property laws. A free market medical system would lead to cheaper medicine. Malpractice insurance would be waved if a patient was in real need. I believe people would be covered that way. Simple fear of losing customers would lead to self regulation of safe drugs. That's what I think at least.

I don't believe we as a people can be perfect, and neither can a system created by people. I'll leave perfection to your pal Jesus. Anarcho Capitalism for the rest of us.

The income tax for me isn't about saving my money. It's about serfdom and how I don't believe it has any plave in modern society.
 

Trauma-san

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Re: Wake Up Before We All Slaves... To Our Government
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2008, 07:22:01 AM »
I don't get Americans and their problem with taxes. Taxes are fucking normal in a functional government. The taxes in Germany are higher than the taxes in the US. Why are you guys bitching so much about it?

So you're cool then if we raise your taxes another 10%?  How about another 30?

What level do they have to get to, before you say "enough" ?  America is past that level already.  The answer is it's your opinion.  There's no right or wrong level of taxes to spend, my opinion is American's pay too many taxes.  I can spend my money to enrich my life better than the government can.  I need the government to protect the country and deliver the mail.  Anything else, they should get the fuck out of.  They run the school systems.  The school systems suck.  Private schools whip public school's asses on almost every measureable parameter, they're even CHEAPER than public schools, only the public schools are paid for out of everybody's pocket before they get their check so nobody notices.  If the government would give us all that money back, we could all pay to send our kids to private schools who would be competitive.   The government wants to raise taxes and run the doctors office now?  How about "no" thank you I don't believe that would be a good idea.