Michael Jackson official thread! -all the NEWS

[Trauma-san]

I think Michaels' singing abilities are very underrated.  When people talk about him, they talk about his dancing, his whole persona, but the fact is the guy is an incredible singer.  To say he's less than average or that a band leader could smoke him is rediculous.  Michael has got to have one of the greatest voices of all time, his versatility is so insane that there have only been 3 or 4 cover songs recorded by major artists of his work, even though he's had hit after hit, nobody else sings them live or re-records them?  The reason is most of his stuff the average singer cannot attempt to cover.  He can sing any genre from R&B to Gospel to Rock, to Heavy Metal to Pop to even songs that have country influences.  Look how easily he switches between pop, hiphop, and heavy metal in shit like "black or white".  If you want to talk shit about him, you can't honestly with an open mind say the man can't sing.  He can sing smooth, rough, falsetto, high, low, the man can be Gerald Levert, Usher, Stephen Tyler, and Luther Vandross on the same song.  He's simply an incredible performer on every measurable level.

Now to compare him vocally to Elvis is rediculous.  Elvis I would say is the greatest pop singer of all time.  He's another guy with an incredible versatility, only his upper limits included operatic performances, he was simply on another planet. 

He can sing just fine. When I sad Band leader I meant lead singers to all those groups lie the Temptations in Detroit that never got deals. MoTown the city had incredible talent no one ever heard. The problem is they all sounded like David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks. I mean exactly like they sound. And as much as I like  MJ's voice I'll never say it's as good as Ruffin's or Kendricks'.

Recognize. You've never even heard Elvis cover or Bridge.




P.S. Chris Cornell did a phenominal cover of Billie Jean on his last acoustic tour.

Bitch please.  I've got album after album of Elvis', I've listened to concerts of his and have several on video.  I've heard his cover of Bridge Over Troubled Water, what the fuck you think you've got some shit on me because you've heard a POPULAR cover of a POPULAR song?  I said Elvis was a better singer than Michael, why don't you go back and fucking read, child.  I 'recognize' that I was listening to Elvis before you were born, how's that, bitch? 

I spelled Recognize with a "z" as in  RECOGNIZE187; the guy who said MJ wasa better singer. Did you have fun typing that tirade? BEcause I wasn't talking to you about Bridge. Of course you have heard it.

Everything I said is still true, though... I mean, you are a childish bitch.  I was listening to Elvis before you were born; You are pretty fucking ignorant for thinking people haven't heard a famous cover of a famous song. 

[Shallow]

I don't know...maybe it's my upbringing, but I've never respected Elvis much at all, and I feel that he was extremely overrated as a singer and star. This might start a war on here, and I know for fact that some people here know much more about him than I will ever (care to) know. I just know that me and most people I know admire and respect MJ, James Brown, and even Prince MUCH, MUCH MORE than they ever will Elvis.

No wars being started. You just don't listen to that music. James Brown would equate Elvis's talent with his own. Is Brown being an idiot when he says that? How much of the old RnB do you relly listen to. I'm not talking about the MoTown Pop. I mean Big Mama Thornton, Howlin Wolf, Chuck Berry, Arthur Cruddup  etc. My guess is you only listen to that stuff when it show up in a movie. You may as well be juding metal singers. Or go to a Bob Dylan concert and ask a bunch of 60 somethings who is the better rapper Rakim or Luda.

[Shallow]

I think Michaels' singing abilities are very underrated.  When people talk about him, they talk about his dancing, his whole persona, but the fact is the guy is an incredible singer.  To say he's less than average or that a band leader could smoke him is rediculous.  Michael has got to have one of the greatest voices of all time, his versatility is so insane that there have only been 3 or 4 cover songs recorded by major artists of his work, even though he's had hit after hit, nobody else sings them live or re-records them?  The reason is most of his stuff the average singer cannot attempt to cover.  He can sing any genre from R&B to Gospel to Rock, to Heavy Metal to Pop to even songs that have country influences.  Look how easily he switches between pop, hiphop, and heavy metal in shit like "black or white".  If you want to talk shit about him, you can't honestly with an open mind say the man can't sing.  He can sing smooth, rough, falsetto, high, low, the man can be Gerald Levert, Usher, Stephen Tyler, and Luther Vandross on the same song.  He's simply an incredible performer on every measurable level.

Now to compare him vocally to Elvis is rediculous.  Elvis I would say is the greatest pop singer of all time.  He's another guy with an incredible versatility, only his upper limits included operatic performances, he was simply on another planet. 

He can sing just fine. When I sad Band leader I meant lead singers to all those groups lie the Temptations in Detroit that never got deals. MoTown the city had incredible talent no one ever heard. The problem is they all sounded like David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks. I mean exactly like they sound. And as much as I like  MJ's voice I'll never say it's as good as Ruffin's or Kendricks'.

Recognize. You've never even heard Elvis cover or Bridge.




P.S. Chris Cornell did a phenominal cover of Billie Jean on his last acoustic tour.

Bitch please.  I've got album after album of Elvis', I've listened to concerts of his and have several on video.  I've heard his cover of Bridge Over Troubled Water, what the fuck you think you've got some shit on me because you've heard a POPULAR cover of a POPULAR song?  I said Elvis was a better singer than Michael, why don't you go back and fucking read, child.  I 'recognize' that I was listening to Elvis before you were born, how's that, bitch? 

I spelled Recognize with a "z" as in  RECOGNIZE187; the guy who said MJ wasa better singer. Did you have fun typing that tirade? BEcause I wasn't talking to you about Bridge. Of course you have heard it.

Everything I said is still true, though... I mean, you are a childish bitch.  I was listening to Elvis before you were born; You are pretty fucking ignorant for thinking people haven't heard a famous cover of a famous song. 

Except he didn't he hear it. He just checked some version he found on Youtube after I mentioned the song and he admitted that. So I was right to question him. Now I know you are incapable of saying you were wrong or saying sorry so just shut the fuck up already.


By the way, you aren't old enough to have been listening to Elvis before I was born. Having Elvis records played in the background while you're crawling around as a toddler doesn't count. We're only like one or two years apart remember.


Oh and for the record RECOGNIZE187; this was the good version of Bridge I was talking about. It's a live version I didn't see on youtube. MJ doesn't have the chops for this;


http://www.sendspace.com/file/04glwh

[Mackin]

I don't know...maybe it's my upbringing, but I've never respected Elvis much at all, and I feel that he was extremely overrated as a singer and star. This might start a war on here, and I know for fact that some people here know much more about him than I will ever (care to) know. I just know that me and most people I know admire and respect MJ, James Brown, and even Prince MUCH, MUCH MORE than they ever will Elvis.

No wars being started. You just don't listen to that music. James Brown would equate Elvis's talent with his own. Is Brown being an idiot when he says that? How much of the old RnB do you relly listen to. I'm not talking about the MoTown Pop. I mean Big Mama Thornton, Howlin Wolf, Chuck Berry, Arthur Cruddup  etc. My guess is you only listen to that stuff when it show up in a movie. You may as well be juding metal singers. Or go to a Bob Dylan concert and ask a bunch of 60 somethings who is the better rapper Rakim or Luda.

Well if a song lays in a movie and i've never heard it before, i'll go searching for it and if i like it
then I'll get the artist catalog's and every other artist that is part of that Artist genre!!
i think you are being a bit silly and judgmental in your response to R.Tistic!
You have no idea what other Music he listen to, the fact that he only cites a few artist should not be construed to mean that's all he listen to!

The song you upload is Nice, but I'm not feeling it!
Thanks all the same!

[Shallow]

I don't know...maybe it's my upbringing, but I've never respected Elvis much at all, and I feel that he was extremely overrated as a singer and star. This might start a war on here, and I know for fact that some people here know much more about him than I will ever (care to) know. I just know that me and most people I know admire and respect MJ, James Brown, and even Prince MUCH, MUCH MORE than they ever will Elvis.

No wars being started. You just don't listen to that music. James Brown would equate Elvis's talent with his own. Is Brown being an idiot when he says that? How much of the old RnB do you relly listen to. I'm not talking about the MoTown Pop. I mean Big Mama Thornton, Howlin Wolf, Chuck Berry, Arthur Cruddup  etc. My guess is you only listen to that stuff when it show up in a movie. You may as well be juding metal singers. Or go to a Bob Dylan concert and ask a bunch of 60 somethings who is the better rapper Rakim or Luda.

Well if a song lays in a movie and i've never heard it before, i'll go searching for it and if i like it
then I'll get the artist catalog's and every other artist that is part of that Artist genre!!
i think you are being a bit silly and judgmental in your response to R.Tistic!
You have no idea what other Music he listen to, the fact that he only cites a few artist should not be construed to mean that's all he listen to!

The song you upload is Nice, but I'm not feeling it!
Thanks all the same!

How many songs similar to that track do you like?



If I pegged R-Tistic wrong than he can just say so. I "guessed" he didn't. I coud be wrong. I'm guessing the same about you. I'm guessing you don't listen to 50s RnB and I'm guessing you don't listen to much country, which is what that version of Bridge would have been inspred by.

If my guess is right then like I said it's about taste and aquirng that taste. There are plenty of genres I didn't "get" until I learned to get it. I still haven't grasped Jazz. Blues took a while. In 2001 listening to Springsteen's Backstreets wouldn't have meant anythng to me. Now it's one of my favourite songs. It's not that it grew on me. It's that the whole sound of it I couldn't appreciate. I couldn't understand it. It's like food. There are amazing dishes that are adored by millions but make me want to throw up. If I grew up with that dish I'd already know how to taste it. And if I fell into starvation I'd be forced to eat it. Eventually I'd aquire a taste for it.

[white Boy]

^ bruce was like that with me def, the voice is so hard to get used to, i cant unerstand him sometimes, and i feel you completely, i remember i researched robert johnson, and was so exited to hear him, and then after downloading, i was like, huh, like i dont get it, now, hes probly one of my fav blues artist, and that voice just is incredible, i takes time and an open mind, some shit ill catch myself listening to now 3 years ago i would have though im smokin crack, but i just let go of all my previous knowledge and try shit, also listening to something 1 time isnt enough, the 1st listen of something i never heard before thats very different is a strange experience, but after a couple times things happen in your brain that just make you get it, or sometimes you just dont get it after listening time and time over, so u just dont listen, im like that with a lot of electronic music, nothing sparks so i say fuck it

[R-Tistic]

I don't know...maybe it's my upbringing, but I've never respected Elvis much at all, and I feel that he was extremely overrated as a singer and star. This might start a war on here, and I know for fact that some people here know much more about him than I will ever (care to) know. I just know that me and most people I know admire and respect MJ, James Brown, and even Prince MUCH, MUCH MORE than they ever will Elvis.

No wars being started. You just don't listen to that music. James Brown would equate Elvis's talent with his own. Is Brown being an idiot when he says that? How much of the old RnB do you relly listen to. I'm not talking about the MoTown Pop. I mean Big Mama Thornton, Howlin Wolf, Chuck Berry, Arthur Cruddup  etc. My guess is you only listen to that stuff when it show up in a movie. You may as well be juding metal singers. Or go to a Bob Dylan concert and ask a bunch of 60 somethings who is the better rapper Rakim or Luda.

I am definitely familiar with all of these artists, since my dad is a Jazz musician who's in his 60's, but neither of us actively listen to this sound. I listen to Jazz that goes back further than that, but I don't listen to much R&B, Rock, or Soul that goes past the 60's...so my taste for that is a lot different. I have more of an ear for Jazz, so it is hard for me to even appreciate some of the musical compositions that Motown's "pop" had as you said, because it just won't hit you the same way if you are listening for more complex music.

[Shallow]

^ bruce was like that with me def, the voice is so hard to get used to, i cant unerstand him sometimes, and i feel you completely, i remember i researched robert johnson, and was so exited to hear him, and then after downloading, i was like, huh, like i dont get it, now, hes probly one of my fav blues artist, and that voice just is incredible, i takes time and an open mind, some shit ill catch myself listening to now 3 years ago i would have though im smokin crack, but i just let go of all my previous knowledge and try shit, also listening to something 1 time isnt enough, the 1st listen of something i never heard before thats very different is a strange experience, but after a couple times things happen in your brain that just make you get it, or sometimes you just dont get it after listening time and time over, so u just dont listen, im like that with a lot of electronic music, nothing sparks so i say fuck it

The electronic digital stuff is just something I don't want to get used to. I've gone through all the old disco and dance music stuf through and through. I realy do prefer a sound that's more raw. 10 years ago I laughed at the idea of putting RZA up there with Dre now I defeniately prefer the Wu Tang sound to the G Funk sound. It feels more real to me. It's part of the reason I can only like MJ so much. It's so sleek and over produced for me. It sounds too polished for me. It's like these greek pastries my mom and aunts make. They are just covered in sugar and glaze and they are just too sweet for me to like. I grew up with them but I never liked them that much.


I didn't start to get Bruce until I realized that all his older songs were like little movies. He plays a part when he sings. He emotes what he feels the character is trying to express. Sometimes it leads to some very out of tune singing like on the Joad or D and D albums. But once I realized this and went back to the BTR and Darkness albums I could see that they are like a collection of short stories with a common thread, and could even be seen as all different scenes from the same movie. I hadn't come across an artist that had done it like that before, or since then for that mattter, and that's why he really stuck out for me.

[R-Tistic]

I don't know...maybe it's my upbringing, but I've never respected Elvis much at all, and I feel that he was extremely overrated as a singer and star. This might start a war on here, and I know for fact that some people here know much more about him than I will ever (care to) know. I just know that me and most people I know admire and respect MJ, James Brown, and even Prince MUCH, MUCH MORE than they ever will Elvis.

That's just because you're ignorant to his contributions to Music.  Elvis Presley was HUGE, he changed the way music was made and had a much heavier, significant impact than MJ, James Brown and Prince combined.  A lot of Elvis' 'hate' comes from the black community because they've been told that Elvis was a racist.  All indications are that nothing could be farther from the truth, Elvis grew up in a black community, attended a black church as a child, and worked with black artists his entire career.  There's even a famous story of Elvis standing up for his black backup-singers on a trip to Texas once.  This was a man without a racist bone in his body, but because he was a white man capable of singing as well as any black man, he was often attacked and was hated because he could reach success that a black man often couldn't.  People looked at Elvis and said how come hes' the shit but nobody listens to Otis Redding?  While his success may have had something to do with being more 'acceptable' to White America than blacks were, you cannot knock the man's talent.  I believe if you actually researched and paid attention to Elvis's music, his life, and his contributions to music you would be flat out amazed at just how great he truly was.  

Well I'll be for real...my dad and his family are from Memphis, so I definitely realize how huge he was whenever I drive by Graceland, and see Elvis Presley Blvd. However, it is probably ingrained or even brainwashed into me to not care much for him, since everyone I grew up under didn't show him any love or respect for various reasons that I really can't certify. I can't deny anything that you say...but assuming you know how serious the racial tension was back in the day, you would probably assume why most blacks felt as they did about Elvis, regardless of how talented he was. From how I heard it, Elvis may have been something like an "Eminem" during Em's prime, when he was arguably the best out, or close to it...but with Em, as huge as he was, he wasn't THAT FAR ahead of the other artists who were out, if you get what I mean. If Em had it like I hear Elvis did, it would basically mean that there was Eminem who went 25 times platinum, but Jay, Pac, Snoop, and Big, who Em got help from and got some of his style/image from, would only be going Gold, and couldn't have even got a record deal....so of course there is going to be a major divide.

If you saw Little Richard's movie, and if you know about how things happened back then, you would know that it was fact that a black artist would make a song, and a white artist would come and take the song, water it down, and make 100,000 times more than the black artist...so it would make sense that they would hate Elvis, even if he was coming up with his own songs, just because he was getting paid for doing what blacks did, when blacks weren't in a position to get paid the same way.

I do admit that my family used to say that he was a racist, but I really have no idea since I wasn't around to know about it. Looking at the time period, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he appeared to the media as being someone who loved blacks, but was a closet racist like many people are...but I'm not going to say he was at all, because I don't know. Many people will act as if they love blacks and whoever else for political and publicity reasons..but when they get home, they are calling them "niggers" to their family members.

[Shallow]

I don't know...maybe it's my upbringing, but I've never respected Elvis much at all, and I feel that he was extremely overrated as a singer and star. This might start a war on here, and I know for fact that some people here know much more about him than I will ever (care to) know. I just know that me and most people I know admire and respect MJ, James Brown, and even Prince MUCH, MUCH MORE than they ever will Elvis.

No wars being started. You just don't listen to that music. James Brown would equate Elvis's talent with his own. Is Brown being an idiot when he says that? How much of the old RnB do you relly listen to. I'm not talking about the MoTown Pop. I mean Big Mama Thornton, Howlin Wolf, Chuck Berry, Arthur Cruddup  etc. My guess is you only listen to that stuff when it show up in a movie. You may as well be juding metal singers. Or go to a Bob Dylan concert and ask a bunch of 60 somethings who is the better rapper Rakim or Luda.

I am definitely familiar with all of these artists, since my dad is a Jazz musician who's in his 60's, but neither of us actively listen to this sound. I listen to Jazz that goes back further than that, but I don't listen to much R&B, Rock, or Soul that goes past the 60's...so my taste for that is a lot different. I have more of an ear for Jazz, so it is hard for me to even appreciate some of the musical compositions that Motown's "pop" had as you said, because it just won't hit you the same way if you are listening for more complex music.

That's what I was saying. People that are used to Marvin Gaye don't think much of Sinatra, and the people used to Sinatra don't think much of Gaye. I'm using kids of today as the example. Most of my black friends that grew up with MoTown in the house think Sinatra sucks. Most of my Italian friends that grew up with the Rat Pack in the house think Marvin Gaye sounds like a woman amd can't listen to it.

[Shallow]

If you saw Little Richard's movie, and if you know about how things happened back then, you would know that it was fact that a black artist would make a song, and a white artist would come and take the song, water it down, and make 100,000 times more than the black artist...so it would make sense that they would hate Elvis, even if he was coming up with his own songs, just because he was getting paid for doing what blacks did, when blacks weren't in a position to get paid the same way.

The later stuff and the soundtrack stuff was way watered down a popped up but I don't know many blacks of 50s RnB that have anything bad to say about the Sun stuff Elvis recorded. As far as I know that old Elvis stuff was greatly regarded in the black music community.

[R-Tistic]

I don't know...maybe it's my upbringing, but I've never respected Elvis much at all, and I feel that he was extremely overrated as a singer and star. This might start a war on here, and I know for fact that some people here know much more about him than I will ever (care to) know. I just know that me and most people I know admire and respect MJ, James Brown, and even Prince MUCH, MUCH MORE than they ever will Elvis.

No wars being started. You just don't listen to that music. James Brown would equate Elvis's talent with his own. Is Brown being an idiot when he says that? How much of the old RnB do you relly listen to. I'm not talking about the MoTown Pop. I mean Big Mama Thornton, Howlin Wolf, Chuck Berry, Arthur Cruddup  etc. My guess is you only listen to that stuff when it show up in a movie. You may as well be juding metal singers. Or go to a Bob Dylan concert and ask a bunch of 60 somethings who is the better rapper Rakim or Luda.

I am definitely familiar with all of these artists, since my dad is a Jazz musician who's in his 60's, but neither of us actively listen to this sound. I listen to Jazz that goes back further than that, but I don't listen to much R&B, Rock, or Soul that goes past the 60's...so my taste for that is a lot different. I have more of an ear for Jazz, so it is hard for me to even appreciate some of the musical compositions that Motown's "pop" had as you said, because it just won't hit you the same way if you are listening for more complex music.

That's what I was saying. People that are used to Marvin Gaye don't think much of Sinatra, and the people used to Sinatra don't think much of Gaye. I'm using kids of today as the example. Most of my black friends that grew up with MoTown in the house think Sinatra sucks. Most of my Italian friends that grew up with the Rat Pack in the house think Marvin Gaye sounds like a woman amd can't listen to it.

I think Sinatra and Marvin were dope as hell. I have music from both of them, but I would definitely prefer hearing Marvin. It is all different styles though, and it's hard to get into styles that don't have much in common.

[Shallow]

I don't know...maybe it's my upbringing, but I've never respected Elvis much at all, and I feel that he was extremely overrated as a singer and star. This might start a war on here, and I know for fact that some people here know much more about him than I will ever (care to) know. I just know that me and most people I know admire and respect MJ, James Brown, and even Prince MUCH, MUCH MORE than they ever will Elvis.

No wars being started. You just don't listen to that music. James Brown would equate Elvis's talent with his own. Is Brown being an idiot when he says that? How much of the old RnB do you relly listen to. I'm not talking about the MoTown Pop. I mean Big Mama Thornton, Howlin Wolf, Chuck Berry, Arthur Cruddup  etc. My guess is you only listen to that stuff when it show up in a movie. You may as well be juding metal singers. Or go to a Bob Dylan concert and ask a bunch of 60 somethings who is the better rapper Rakim or Luda.

I am definitely familiar with all of these artists, since my dad is a Jazz musician who's in his 60's, but neither of us actively listen to this sound. I listen to Jazz that goes back further than that, but I don't listen to much R&B, Rock, or Soul that goes past the 60's...so my taste for that is a lot different. I have more of an ear for Jazz, so it is hard for me to even appreciate some of the musical compositions that Motown's "pop" had as you said, because it just won't hit you the same way if you are listening for more complex music.

That's what I was saying. People that are used to Marvin Gaye don't think much of Sinatra, and the people used to Sinatra don't think much of Gaye. I'm using kids of today as the example. Most of my black friends that grew up with MoTown in the house think Sinatra sucks. Most of my Italian friends that grew up with the Rat Pack in the house think Marvin Gaye sounds like a woman amd can't listen to it.

I think Sinatra and Marvin were dope as hell. I have music from both of them, but I would definitely prefer hearing Marvin. It is all different styles though, and it's hard to get into styles that don't have much in common.

I wasn't talking about you. You're jazz background would at least give you some apprecation of the crooners and big band stuff. Real fans of music who like and listen to almost everything will like both. The blacks and italians I was referring too aren't all that keen on studying music as it is. They are common fans of top 40 shit.


But you liking Sinatra makes me think you at least hear the talent of singing requred to perform that version of Bridge I posted. Did you hear it?

[white Boy]

yea, i def like that raw sound, the blues have been doing it for me lately, howlin wolf, john lee hooker, robert johnson, blind boy fuller, son house, leadbelly,  i love it , i even got into some woody guthrie.


 oh, shallow, do you have any eric von shmidt?

[Shallow]

yea, i def like that raw sound, the blues have been doing it for me lately, howlin wolf, john lee hooker, robert johnson, blind boy fuller, son house, leadbelly,  i love it , i even got into some woody guthrie.


 oh, shallow, do you have any eric von shmidt?

Never really got aroud to him yet. Anything you recommend?