Author Topic: Check this...  (Read 231 times)

jeromechickenbone

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Check this...
« on: February 02, 2008, 12:47:58 AM »
My pops used to play this song all the time.  I think it's every bit as relevant now as it was when he was in Vietnam in the 60's.

<a href="http://youtube.com/v/bmysVoRBgyA&amp;autoplay=0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://youtube.com/v/bmysVoRBgyA&amp;autoplay=0</a>
 

Elevz

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2008, 03:29:24 AM »
Good song, and that video was nicely put together. I think this might just stay relevant for a damn long time  :-\
 

AndrE16686

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2008, 05:38:23 AM »
Word.....word.     

:grumpy:  :'(   :cow:
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 05:40:07 AM by RETURN OF THE OVERFIEND »
 

Trauma-san

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2008, 05:06:32 PM »
I love the song.  Always have... but how can you say it's relevant, when in the 60's he was saying we were on the eve of destruction?  It didn't happen... as a matter of fact, the troubles we're going through now pale in comparison to the shit that happened just 40 years ago!  Imagine how bad life was in the civil war, it was much worse then than it was in the 60's.  Imagine how bad the depression was in the 20's, you had people literally starving to death in the streets. 

People are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too narcisistic when it comes to this shit.  I'll put it like this: Right now, the world is in better shape than it has *ever* been.  A larger percentage of people have good lives now than at any other time in history.  I'm thankful I was born into such a great country at such a great time in History.  That we have a woman and a black man effectively slugging it out for the presidency of the WORLD I think speaks to what I just said. 
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2008, 06:21:43 PM »
What do you mean how can I say it's relevant?  Are you completely oblivious to the world around you?  Our country is on the verge of going completely bankrupt, we're involved in an endless war built on debunked lies against a faceless enemy, we're responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands (maybe millions?) of innocent people in a 3rd world country, most all of our politicians are lying, greedy pigs, we're devolving into a welfare state, middle eastern businessman are quitely bailing out (aka buying) numerous failing banks (and Nasdaq) and the media says nothing, recession is all but a foregone conclusion, etc etc etc I could type all day.

Yeah I'm happy that I'm all comfortable with what I have and what I've accomplished, but if you don't think there is some massively fucked up shit going on and eventually there's going to be hell to pay then I'd tell you to wake the fuck up.

Yeah, the world didn't end in the 60's.  I'm not sure if you recall, but there was massive civil unrest in those days.  Americans were very conscious of what was going on and they spoke out against it and made real change.  We may not be on that level yet, but I think there are lots of parallels that make this song completely relevant today.

You say our quality of life has improved since the Civil War and I agree to a certain extent.  I also think we have devolved as a country in many ways since then however.  You look at the majority of presidential candidates, they are big government socialists regardless if they are Repulican or Democrat, it's deemed kooky to follow the Constitution, it's basically been criminalized and disregarded.  Civil liberties are being completely thrown out of the window.  We are turning into what our founders were trying to escape from when they came here.  We are on a very dangerous path.
 

Trauma-san

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2008, 09:09:00 PM »
I think you're being rediculous.  There are hard times, a lot of people have it bad, but we're better off right now than we've ever been.  Period.  In the early 90's gangs were killing people all over the country, now you dont' hear shit about it.  Hell, just 3 years ago we had dozens of soldiers a week dying in Iraq, now we don't.  When Rodney King was arrested, the officers were aquitted and you had riots in the streets.  In the 60's, you had riots in the streets, people were murdered.  Now we have disgruntled teenagers taking popshots at the mall. 

All this shit about the banks is hysteria.  Please believe you don't know 1 fucking thing about the global bank market.  You just think you do because of what you read in the newspaper, or what you see on television.  How has your life changed because Citibank fucked up?  It hasn't. 

You say most of our politicians are lying thieves.  What's new?  In the 70's, Richard Nixon was so corrupt he had to QUIT THE OFFICE.  John Kennedy was *murdered* in the 60's!  Martin Luther King, Bobbie Kennedy, why do I have to give you a history lesson?

Things are MUCH better now.

You say we're repsonsible for deaths in other countries.  In the 40's,we dropped nuclear bombs on Japan and the babies are still born over there with extra arms and shit.  In the 1700's, we murdered every Indian that lived in America.  In the 1800's, we enslaved every black person that lived in America.  In the 40's, we put all the asians in concentration camps. 

It just doesn't even compare.  How you could not see that things are better now is beyond me. 
 

AndrE16686

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 01:28:46 AM »
Things are much better in some ways, but things are worse in other ways too. Its like the checkered chess board, as in life a person is constantly going through periods of light and dark. There is nothing wrong with looking back on history in context with the present. To me the song is kinda saying how WE are always on the eve of our destruction, how we always are on the eve our destruction, not that "the eve of our destruction is neigh".  Its like in the Old Testament how God said that once yall eat the fruit yall shall surely die. Well, we are dying god. Constantly dying & constatnly being reborn. It is our realm, our reality.

"its a never ending game that never ceases to exist only the players change"

        -GZA/Genius, I Gotcha Back.

Take the devil off your plane
Take him off your mental mentality
Take him off your brain
Leave all the ciggarettes and guns
The alcohol and everything
Thats the mental devil that exists within your body
                  ...
Dont look towards the sky
Cause theres no heaven above
Dont look down beneath your feet
Theres no hell below
But heaven and hell exist within
Heaven is what you make it and
Hell is what youre going through
 -Papa Wu, Wu-Revolution.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 01:52:58 AM by RETURN OF THE OVERFIEND »
 

virtuoso

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 05:12:22 AM »
Jrome you try responding rationally to this guy it doesn't work, you just need to be blunt with him oh and a great song, thanks for that, haven't heard it before but it sure does carry relevance.

Over 10.000 U.S soldiers are dead

Tens of thousands have been injured

The stock market is disappearing down the toilet, whenever the central banks pump more liquidity into the market, it temporarily halts the slide and then it plummets straight back down again.

Over 2 million homes in the U.S are going to be reposessed

America is bankrupt

The dollar has been completely debased

Psychopathic neocons actually want more september 11 attacks to further their aim for new wars

The stock market doesn't just affect small groups, that's peoples pensions down the toilet, they will be worth less than what they have contributed into them.

As the dollar is completely debased it means peoples savings don't amount to shit anymore.

The chinese will be forced to cut their peg to the dollar because of the downward pressures on the dollar and then americas transition into dependance will be harshly felt by everyone as inflation rockets.

How does it affect me? the average real wage of the average family in america has fallen by $1,000 since 2001.

The new jobs are being created in low paid service sector jobs, which have now also run out of steam because the big banks like the city bank, which you so ignorantly commented on, have cut the credit lines.

A government which is seemingly doing all it can to drive america into the ruins

On top of which there are psychopathic elements of the government attacking it's own people with anthrax!!

As for talking about how wonderful things are and then making the point about the depression, you ignorant low life ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/12/23/cccrisis123.xml

However I realise you don't actually care about reality.




« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 08:25:50 AM by virtuoso »
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2008, 10:30:41 AM »
I think you're being rediculous.  There are hard times, a lot of people have it bad, but we're better off right now than we've ever been.  Period.  In the early 90's gangs were killing people all over the country, now you dont' hear shit about it.  Hell, just 3 years ago we had dozens of soldiers a week dying in Iraq, now we don't.  When Rodney King was arrested, the officers were aquitted and you had riots in the streets.  In the 60's, you had riots in the streets, people were murdered.  Now we have disgruntled teenagers taking popshots at the mall. 

All this shit about the banks is hysteria.  Please believe you don't know 1 fucking thing about the global bank market.  You just think you do because of what you read in the newspaper, or what you see on television.  How has your life changed because Citibank fucked up?  It hasn't. 

You say most of our politicians are lying thieves.  What's new?  In the 70's, Richard Nixon was so corrupt he had to QUIT THE OFFICE.  John Kennedy was *murdered* in the 60's!  Martin Luther King, Bobbie Kennedy, why do I have to give you a history lesson?

Things are MUCH better now.

You say we're repsonsible for deaths in other countries.  In the 40's,we dropped nuclear bombs on Japan and the babies are still born over there with extra arms and shit.  In the 1700's, we murdered every Indian that lived in America.  In the 1800's, we enslaved every black person that lived in America.  In the 40's, we put all the asians in concentration camps. 

It just doesn't even compare.  How you could not see that things are better now is beyond me. 

LOL @ me not knowing about the global banking market.  How do you make that baseless assumption?  I manage a $180 Million commercial real estate portfolio for our highest performing officer at a multi-billion dollar bank.  He's 65 and I take over his position as soon as he retires.  I've had one on one conversations w/ the #2 person at the Comptroller of Currency as recently as 2 weeks ago.  I've talked economy w/ Boone Pickens and Donald Horton (google them).  I personally know some extremely wealthy investors that worked Wall Street for 30 years.  I'm not saying this shit to brag, I'm saying it because I'd be willing to bet my real world experience teaches me just a little better than your spoonfed reports from Fox News.

Since you understand global banking, explain to me about SIV funds.  Tell me why Swiss banks are having problems.  What are the potential ramifications of acquisitions of comanies like Countrywide to BofA?  Tell me the rough numbers on capital injections from the middle east into our banks?  What are the ramifications of this? 
 

virtuoso

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2008, 11:03:02 AM »

Jrome question for you, how do you explain why so many european banks were buying credit derivatives from American Banks? This is nothing new after all, they have been warning for the last decade that the debt bubble has been pumped up to biblical proportions and yet with the financial institutions, it seemed like they were happy to continue.
P.S I know the sub prime mortgage is one issue, but as you know, framing it in that way, overlooks the credit cards, the prime mortgage market, the triple AA's, credit derivatives, the whole nine yeards basically.
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2008, 02:21:21 PM »
International markets jumped in because these investments were insanely profitable for the last several years.  A big driver in the mortgage depression (and banking in general) is that they were heavily structured on incentive based lending.  For every loan an officer put on the books, they were getting cash.  Take Mozillo who is Countrywide's CEO.  Countrywide was the biggest mortgage company in the US.  His pay was HEAVILY determined by how many in both # and $ dollar amount of loans they put on their books.  He made several hundred million dollars over the last 5 years.  If those loans blew up, he doesn't give a shit because he's already made a large fortune.  He couldn't give a shit less if he loses his job.

When you set up a system like that, it's destined to fail.  And of course Countrywide imploded and had to be bought out.  And Mozillo is facing accusations from shareholders for both falsifying profits and knowing well ahead of time that the stock value of the company was gonna crash.  He liquidated his shares in countrywide about a year ago and made hundreds of millions of dollars.  His explanation was that he was "diversifying his portfolio", lol.  He's part Enron and part Martha Stewart basically.

But anyway, a lot of banks / investors internationally saw those insane profits and they bought billions of dollars worth of mortgage backed securities.  Now there is some political pressure because these investments have basically gone belly up.  The purchasing investors want the loan originators to buy these securities back because they stand to (and already are) losing hundreds of millions of dollars.  Investors from all over the world are affected by the housing market in the US. 

But housing is just a symptom of the overall problem which is like you said, the devaluation of the dollar.  The Federal Reserve is truly fucked here because they are trying to slash interest rates to spur people to go to banks and take out loans and help they economy.  However, the Fed is simulataneously slamming the door on a lot of banks because they claim that they were putting too risky of loans on their books over the last 5 years and are heavily downgrading those loans.  When loans are downgraded, banks must take money directly out of profits and into a reserve fund.  Banks can only lend X% of their capital base, and that capital base shrinks every time cash is re-allocated from profits to these reserves.  So banks lending practices are going to be much more strict for the foreseeable future. 

So regardless if the Fed cuts rates to spur the economy, banks are going to be MUCH more skeptical about lending out money which is very bad for the economy.  Then you've got the other effect of the Fed slashing rates - inflation.  Because we have no commodity backed currency (even though the Constitution explicity states that our currency must only be silver or gold), the Fed can print as much money as they deem necessary, which has a net affect of inflation.  For every dollar printed, the dollar becomes less valuable.



 

virtuoso

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2008, 02:37:24 PM »

Right and of course the slashing of interest rates is only further devaluing the dollar and is undermining the so called hot money i.e. there is some 200 billion pounds worth of hot money investors, who invest their money elsewhere when interest rates are cut. However by slashing interest rates like they do, and like you said, they only further more inflation. The reality is to that the stock market is an illusion, these interest rate moves only temporarily halt the slide and give time for them to reposition their investments. Once they have completely bailed out, the whole thing will collapse like a game of jenga after you have removed one block too many. However it's not just the dollar which is being decimated, this whole false illusion, where everything has been entirely credit driven, is starting to be felt here to, Sterling has fallen by more than 10% in the last year and that is massive.

However props for clarifying +1

 

white Boy

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Re: Check this...
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2008, 01:06:57 PM »
wow, what a nice song, i never heard it before, but its beautiful, i dont like the video though, i never like that kind of stuff