Author Topic: US Election Format!  (Read 134 times)

The King

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US Election Format!
« on: February 26, 2008, 03:33:52 PM »
The structure of awarding delegates in this country, is completely and 100% ridiculous. It's screwed up the whole election, and it makes no sense. Winner Take All, proportional delegates, state wide proportional, it's all backwards. It's particular stupid how different both parties work.

For example, if Clinton wins every district in a State, with a state wide vote of 60%, she only gets 60% of the delegates, even though she won every district. Or for WTA, Romney gets 31%, McCain gets 33%, and McCain wins 100% of the delegates. It makes NO SENSE. And it's not fair.

California has it right. Win a district, you win all of that districts delegates. It's the fair way to do it. The whole country, every state, should work the same way. Win a district, you get it's delegates. No winner take all, no popular vote proportion.

If the whole country voted the same way, in a sensible manner, the RIGHT candidate would be the nominee. The only reason McCain won the nomination, was because he won Florida. And he only won by a few percent. It's a travesty. It's also lead to the dead heat between Obama and Clinton.

Every state should award delegates in the same way, by congressional district. Win a district, win the delegates. That's the way it should be. Winner Take All, makes NO SENSE. 
 

Sikotic™

Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2008, 03:37:05 PM »
It's just a way to justify corruption if you ask me. It's like when the Catholic church would deceive people who couldn't read the bible. The system is made so god damn confusing that most people don't understand it.
 

Trauma-san

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2008, 10:04:27 PM »
Here's the problem, though... there's nothing in the law that says you have to be a republican or democrat to be elected president.

Now, we know common sense tells you that well, you pretty much DO have to be a republican or democrat...


but the reason Mitt Romney ultimately didn't win was because he chose to run as a republican, and therefore had to abide by the republican rules that they use to pick their candidate.  Get the issue there?  If Romney had simply ran for president, he wouldn't even have to be nominated, he could just declare himself a candidate and run!

Now, the republican party would nominate someone using their system, and then that person would reap the benefits of nearly every republican elected official campaigning for him, and all the money that comes with it, etc. so that's why people choose to run as a republican.

Same thing on the democrat side.

So what you're bitching about doesn't have anything to do with the u.s. election for president, it specifically has to do with how fucked up the republican and democrat parties are.  I agree.  I'm a conservative, I have nobody running to vote for.  I won't vote for John McCain, I don't like him and I'm tired of the bigger government the republican party represents.  I'm definately not voting for the democrat nominee, because they're even worse.  If Mitt Romney or someone like him ran as an independent, I would vote for them. 
 

The King

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 06:14:45 PM »
^ Good post, I 100% agree.

I'll use Canada as an example, their are 5 major parties, the Liberals, New Democrat, Conservative, Green and the Bloc parties. All of them get reasonable percentages of the vote during a federal election. It'd be safe to say it's at least a 4 party system. The draw back is, we don't elect the leader of the parties. The party picks who will represent the party and run in the election. This is a problem, but they get to pick from multiple different candidates. Since we have so many parties, theres bound to be one who we like. And it's also not Winner takes the Province.

The beauty of the system is, which IMO makes Canada's government superior to the Americans is, the opposition (who recieved the second most votes in the last federal election) can call a new federal election any time they want before the 4 year term is up. So if the people are pissed off, we could have a federal election and pick a new Prime Minister next month.

It's the most sensible thing in the world. A leader doesn't do what he says, or does something unpopular, we don't need to put up with it for 4 years. The house calls an election, and we get to vote again, even 1 month after the election took place.
 

Trauma-san

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 07:53:20 AM »
Yeah, that's all great except basically you're voting for the 4 people the government tells you to vote for.  Get the fuck off your high horse, you guys are being spoon fed 4 guys and you think you have choices and everything's free.  Superior to the U.S. Government?  Please.  In 200 years the U.S. has dominated the world, quicker and stronger than any country before it.  Our constitution is based on limiting the government (which is still a struggle) and assumes that everybody has inalienable rights, it's not a document that grants people rights.  The U.S. government is far superior to any government in the world, and that includes our friends in Canada. 
 

The King

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 04:05:23 PM »
^ I'm not going to argue with you, since obviously you are a very patriotic american. But thats a very ignorant statement. I don't know if your trying to argue that the US is the best country, however, the US doesn't even have the highest standard of living.

Why does the US have the best government? The US health care system sucks compared to the rest of the modernized world. The US education system sucks. The US trade policy sucks. The US foreign policy sucks. The only thing the US government has given you is the highest GDP. With a country moving into a recession, and poor health and education systems, how can you honestly say the US government is SUPERIOR to governments like Germany, Canada and England? Give me a break american kid.

The point I was trying to argue was that the Canadian electoral system is better. Just think, you wouldn't have had to put up with Bush for so long. Patriotism and ignorance go hand in hand when it comes to most americans.

Quote
The U.S. government is far superior to any government in the world

Ignorance at its best. What "superior" benefits do Americans receive that modern countries don't? None. In fact many countries far surpass the US in health care, education and soon Economy (China). The US government sucks. And you living their, should know that.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 04:07:40 PM by The King of Mitt Romney's Fan Club »
 

Tay

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 04:14:07 PM »
I saw a segment (I think it was on CNN) a couple days ago, and one of the guys that was in the discussion was a Super Delegate for Texas. They were breaking down the race and all that, and right before they closed it out, he had to boost himself. He said something to the point of "For everyone asking why we deserve to be the ones to ultimately pick the candidates, we are the ones who are out there campaigning for our party in the summer during 110 degree heat, blah, blah, blah." I figured I would share that, and also I agree that it is annoying that different states have different methods of choosing and dividing their districts, etc.
I got a bird's eye view
 

Trauma-san

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008, 09:22:27 PM »
To the canuck:
 
You missed my point on the election.  You don't have a free election.  You have a choice between 4 people that the government tells you to vote for.  In America, anybody can run.

What good does it do for us to every two years replace somebody we elected ourselves, with somebody the government tells us we can elect?  That's rediculous.  So, let me get this straight.  When you get pissed at your current president, whom the government allowed you to choose out of 4 people, you're allowed to choose the guy that didn't win 2 years ago?  How is that a good thing?  That's a rediculous thing.  That's not freedom.  That's the illusion of freedom.

You can say whatever you want, but the truth is, a poor kid from Arkansas can work hard, and one day become president of the United States.  Then almost get impeached, then his wife can almost become president as well.  Rags to riches, right there in Bill Clinton... and you can say what you want, but the motherfucker didn't have shit when he was born and now he has everything.  THAT, is freedom. 
 

Trauma-san

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008, 09:25:03 PM »
Oh, and you said that canada had better health care.  Yawn. 

In America, if I get sick, I drive a mile and go see a doctor.  There's one waiting there right now to see me.  If I need an X-ray, he wheels me into another room, and I get an X-ray.  Tonight.  Right now.  If I need an operation, he wheels me into another room, and I get an operation.  If it's something that can wait, he gets me a room, I sleep, and then I wake up at 8a.m. and have the operation he was kind enough to schedule for me.  I pay 23% taxes, and my insurance company pays almost all of the bill.   If I make less than a certain amount, I don't pay any taxes, and the government pays the entire bill.

BTW, if I don't have insurance, then what happens?  The same thing, except the hospital pays for it. 

 

M Dogg™

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 10:12:29 PM »
As messed up as our system seems, we have the longest running successful democracy. For centuries we have had a system that gives even the most advance political science professors problems, but at the end of the day the rest of the world wishes they had a system as proven as ours. We have problems, as I wish we'd have more parties involved, but at the same time the two party system has given us some great leaders. For better or for worst, our system allows for the president to gain more power than what the consititution was written for. But at the end of the day, our system is copied, and tried by may countries, and this election is an example of why our system is so great. We elect our leaders in a long drawn out way, that we weigh in, and read their issues, and watch their speeches, and after all that time, in Nov. we go to the polls and decide on who we think will lead our nation. There is reports that other people from other democracies follow our election this year, and wish that their system allowed for as much drama as ours... lol. It's not perfect, but it works, and it has worked longer than any other democracy in the world.
 

The King

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Re: US Election Format!
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2008, 10:45:33 PM »
To the canuck:
 
You missed my point on the election.  You don't have a free election.  You have a choice between 4 people that the government tells you to vote for.  In America, anybody can run.

What good does it do for us to every two years replace somebody we elected ourselves, with somebody the government tells us we can elect?  That's rediculous.  So, let me get this straight.  When you get pissed at your current president, whom the government allowed you to choose out of 4 people, you're allowed to choose the guy that didn't win 2 years ago?  How is that a good thing?  That's a rediculous thing.  That's not freedom.  That's the illusion of freedom.

You can say whatever you want, but the truth is, a poor kid from Arkansas can work hard, and one day become president of the United States.  Then almost get impeached, then his wife can almost become president as well.  Rags to riches, right there in Bill Clinton... and you can say what you want, but the motherfucker didn't have shit when he was born and now he has everything.  THAT, is freedom. 

Freedom? Freedom is over-rated. Freedom gives the people a choice. Well most of the time the average person is too stupid to make the right choice. You defend your system, yet you guys elected George W Bush, twice. Our system pre-selects qualified people which we get to choice from. No one in Canada complains. No one in Canada is pissed off at our Federal government in the same way the US is pissed off at yours. Canada's system is better, because when we get a failing candidate, he gets kicked out, and we get to vote again. Your system produced Bush. And you re-elected Bush.

Freedom is meaningless when the average voter is too stupid to pick the right candidate. Most Americans hate their government. Most Canadians like their government. The facts are their man. Canada's people like their system. America doesn't. And you've put yourself into a hole by picking the "popular" candidate, Bush, and not the right candidate.

And about the Health Care system. It works for you. Does it work for every American? If your 50 with Cancer, does your HMO pay every cent? No. The system works for you, it fails the majority.

As with everything, most Americans don't like their health care system. Canadians do like their system. It's free. Everything is 100% free. And all we pay is 25$ a month or whatever it is. Your basically argueing against Universal Health Care. Well buddy, its the best way. It treats everyone equally. The way it should be. The US may have better doctors, may, but when you break your leg and you have to pay 1200$ per night for a hospital bed, you'll wish you'd had Universal Health Care.

The American system leaves your coverage at the discretion of the Insurance Companies. How is that a good idea?

The US has a serious complex. They think everything they have, everything they do, is the best. They feel entitled to everything. What really bugs me is idiots who complain about the price of oil and gasoline. Europe pays 4x as much for a gallon of gas then Americans, and Americans complain?

« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 10:50:12 PM by The King of Mitt Romney's Fan Club »