Author Topic: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?  (Read 1968 times)

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2008, 03:35:13 PM »
Because West Coast fans are 13 to 19 years old.. they were too young to dig the G-Funk Era, so its new to them, so they are wondering why the artists cant drop shit like that anymore, because they didnt not have the chance to grow with the artist and get with his evolution. and In my opinion... the West Is just a coast on a map, thats it, to me music is music, as long as its dope in my ears, and shiit West Coast Music aint about Gangsta Rap only... Look at Murs, Look at Madlib all those are from the west and they actually make music that people can relate too and grow to , but doesnt get support because it aint GANGSTA enough
nothing but the networth about murs and madlib yell
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D~Nice

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2008, 06:00:12 PM »
Seems the music industry has changed waves ever since the Nappy comment Imus mentioned last year. The term was very derogative and got officials discussing the whole matter of explicit material and where it's coming from. Politicians blamed it on rap, and a backlash against all our favorite artists was unleashed. Nas declared hip hop was dead from that point, and now, the radio has become infested with rap-influenced pop music. "Chicken Noodle Soup" for the soul indeed. Rather, for the grave.

Regarding west coast: after Pac died, the relevence of gangsta rap decreased, moreso after B.I.G. got shot. The subgenre had gone down the drain because of the people who were affected by it: Dre denounced his gangsta ways, Snoop Dogg was at a crossroads between Death Row and No Limit (the money hungry industry at that time), and the music west coast offered became more universal than street. Pharcyde, Xzibit, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples: some of the well known west coast underground rappers at that time.

But one rapper who really changed the shape of music, period: Will Smith. The man whom you only thought of as an actor released Big Willie Style after the end of the east coast-west coast era. His old school swagger was gone for the most part (except on "Yes, Yes, Y'All" with Camp Lo), but he brought an entertainment value that eased the gangsta age and hinted on a new form of positive rap. In fact, on a PBS interview (don't remember which one and at what year), Nate Dogg was really insistant on working with him. Turned out that Snoop Dogg got his lucky shot on "Pump Ya Brakes," an easily slept on record. Listen to it.

I don't know if I can answer D-Nice's question directly, but what I do know is that the situation is a parallel of the Chicano Curse article I wrote last year, explaining why Chicano Rap will never achieve success in the music industry unless that Chicano rapper changes his ways by selling out. Baby Bash did it and got a lot of success; Lil' Rob did it, but became a one-hit wonder. That's because Bash moved to Texas while Rob stayed in Cali to represent the brown. The same could be said for Snoop: west coast fans think of gangsta rap as the higher music form in California. Hard beats, G-funk samples, rugged shots and gangbangin'. But the problem with that is, everyone's doing it. Every producer here in the U.S. has emulated the style to a very high that it is now impossible to duplicate. It's spread so far out that the U.S. has become the west. Ironic: that was what west coast wanted back in the 90's - Cali to overrun the U.S. Now look what happened. East coast artists have the west coast sound, while the west coast artist have the east coast lyrics (About a margin of rappers have that - and they're the hungry ones from the underground scene). Dirty south is a wild card - they work with whoever the fuck they want (and I'm proud of that).

Goes down to this: because the south is a wild card, they have pretty much decided the fate for how west coast should be represented.

Nice post. +1 homie.
 

UCC

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2008, 05:47:09 AM »
I was open to the idea of ego trippin. I like the idea of the songs, but most of them just don't sound good.

Co-sign right here


But a bunch of people dont like it cause there young n dumb imo, there stuck with that gangsta music mentality, they think the song has to be hard or its garbage, that aint the case, its music, let the artists fuck around a bit and see what type of crack they come up with, people need to have a open mind!!!

It doesn't have to be hard, it just has to be good. Can't people just accept that other people think the beats and raps are wack on this album? You can't keep hiding behind the excuse that it's so fresh that some people just aren't getting it. As I co-signed above - I was very open to the idea, it just so happened that it came out kinda wack PLUS he only flipped the script on like 3-4 tracks, the rest is his usually stuff, but easy listening style forgettable beats and verses
IMO this would mainly appeal to 'young n dumb' listeners who a) haven't heard that many dope beats, b) don't know what a dope verse sounds like, and c) want to sing 'i waaannnnaaa taaake myyyyy tiiiimeee' etc in the playground


Seems the music industry has changed waves ever since the Nappy comment Imus mentioned last year. The term was very derogative and got officials discussing the whole matter of explicit material and where it's coming from. Politicians blamed it on rap, and a backlash against all our favorite artists was unleashed. Nas declared hip hop was dead from that point, and now, the radio has become infested with rap-influenced pop music. "Chicken Noodle Soup" for the soul indeed. Rather, for the grave.

Regarding west coast: after Pac died, the relevence of gangsta rap decreased, moreso after B.I.G. got shot. The subgenre had gone down the drain because of the people who were affected by it: Dre denounced his gangsta ways, Snoop Dogg was at a crossroads between Death Row and No Limit (the money hungry industry at that time), and the music west coast offered became more universal than street. Pharcyde, Xzibit, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples: some of the well known west coast underground rappers at that time.

But one rapper who really changed the shape of music, period: Will Smith. The man whom you only thought of as an actor released Big Willie Style after the end of the east coast-west coast era. His old school swagger was gone for the most part (except on "Yes, Yes, Y'All" with Camp Lo), but he brought an entertainment value that eased the gangsta age and hinted on a new form of positive rap. In fact, on a PBS interview (don't remember which one and at what year), Nate Dogg was really insistant on working with him. Turned out that Snoop Dogg got his lucky shot on "Pump Ya Brakes," an easily slept on record. Listen to it.

I don't know if I can answer D-Nice's question directly, but what I do know is that the situation is a parallel of the Chicano Curse article I wrote last year, explaining why Chicano Rap will never achieve success in the music industry unless that Chicano rapper changes his ways by selling out. Baby Bash did it and got a lot of success; Lil' Rob did it, but became a one-hit wonder. That's because Bash moved to Texas while Rob stayed in Cali to represent the brown. The same could be said for Snoop: west coast fans think of gangsta rap as the higher music form in California. Hard beats, G-funk samples, rugged shots and gangbangin'. But the problem with that is, everyone's doing it. Every producer here in the U.S. has emulated the style to a very high that it is now impossible to duplicate. It's spread so far out that the U.S. has become the west. Ironic: that was what west coast wanted back in the 90's - Cali to overrun the U.S. Now look what happened. East coast artists have the west coast sound, while the west coast artist have the east coast lyrics (About a margin of rappers have that - and they're the hungry ones from the underground scene). Dirty south is a wild card - they work with whoever the fuck they want (and I'm proud of that).

Goes down to this: because the south is a wild card, they have pretty much decided the fate for how west coast should be represented.

Nice history lesson, but sum it up, what's your point. I don't see how Imus relates to pop-rap, it's been around a long time before that, that incident just made a few folks mad at rap for a couple of minutes, no one went, "oh Imus made a racist comment, well, better go make me some pop rap". Will Smith didn't make a huge dent either, we'd already had Puffy and Mase making pop bullshit for a while then, Will just added on to it

Southern rap has been popular recently because they figured out the formula that makes millions of kids buy your records, rather than just hiphop heads - you come up with a beat that you can dance to, you have a little keyboard melody that sticks in motherfuckers heads, you add a catchy as hell hook, then you just bullshit your way through your verses and say anything, as long as you're doing it with 'swagger'. Then you have your flossy video with you in crazy sunglasses, some jeans hung low, mad cars and bitches, and cameos from all the people who had a hit single last week



 

Ese Torsido

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2008, 07:57:34 AM »
Quote from: UCC
Nice history lesson, but sum it up, what's your point.

Only to bring up interesting thoughts to the table, as Chad Vader and D-Nice said. I couldn't come up with a straight answer because there's a lot of additional factors I left out. I won't go into that much detali, but I can purely say:

If it's anybody other than a west coast artist, they'll make it to the top.
If it's a west coast artist, they can only do west coast music, but they can't duplicate any one else.
 

SGV

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2008, 08:26:51 AM »
Ive said it once, I'll say it a million times. West Coast Fans just can't let go. That's why whenever there's another person doing hooks you see comments like "Nate should've done that hook!" or "Why not use Butch Cassidy?" Or you, when artists get producers outside of the West, "Why did they get some East Coast shit? That's wack! They should've got some G-Funk shit." Uh... It's 2008. G-Funk hasn't been shit in over 10 years. Why would anyone want that shit back? It's just cats can't get over it. They fell deeply in love with it and they're just not done with it.

Snoop can't try new things because his fans HATE that. They hate that Snoop is not exclusive to them anymore. God forbid if DJ Quik tried something new, people are having a heart attack. No artists from the West Coast really get the OK from their fans to go out and try new shit. Hell, even some artists from the West Coast don't get love from West Coast fans because they (the artists) aren't Gangsta, Street or G-Funk enough for them. But these fans still sit here and claim to be as West Coast as anyone. Which is also why I say they're hypocritical. They have the nerve to diss Southern dudes for their lyrical content, but big up Suga Free or Mac Shawn in the next sentence.

West Coast fans just aren't open. The Game is about as West Coast as they come, but his appeal extends well passed the West. There's a reason why he wasn't broke on the West Coast first. He had to get broken in New York and on THEIR Mixtape scene because the West Coast doesn't work that way. West Coast fans complain left and right about Mixtapes. They either getting them free or for real cheap and they're making all sorts of ridiculous excuses why they don't like them. If West Coast fans were more supportive of Mixtapes, believe that the Radio would be more supportive. But since the West Coast fans are a bunch of hoes, they don't support anything enough for it to blow up. Even when their "Gods" Snoop, Daz or Kurupt drop something, they find a reason to hate on their record. "Oh they had [insert non-West artist(s) here] on the record. They should've had RBX, Lady of Rage, Lil Half Dead, Butch Cassidy, Goldie Loc, Nate Dogg, Soopafly, or Mr. Malik on the record!!!!"

We're gonna have to wait for a new batch of West Coast fans. We're still surrounded by people who were introduced to the West Coast either during the G-Funk or 2001 era's of West Coast Hip Hop which were dominated by the same people they're in love with today. West Coast fans who were introduced to the West by Game, Omar Cruz, Bishop Lamont etc. will be a new day. Just gotta be patient and see what those fans do with the West Coast. These current fans, coupled with old ass rappers ain't doing shit with it.
 

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2008, 08:52:11 AM »
niggas in the streets with limited internet access could give a shitless about the growth of an artist that they grew up on..

if they see a snoop, quik, eiht, cube, kam, e-40 or etc cd at their local mom & pop or favorite outlet..or hell if their favorite bootlegger has it..u think them niggas or bitches..gone sit there n debate with the people about the musicianship of the last album..or if its gangsta or not.. hell nall they got other shit they can be worried about

the gone spend that 2,4,5,7,9.99 or 12.99 without a care in the world.....

niggas need to quit cryin about shit they could go out n do themselves..if ya favorite mc aint doin it nomore.. get up off ya ass ..make the music u like..





 

Ese Torsido

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2008, 10:00:13 AM »
niggas need to quit cryin about shit they could go out n do themselves..if ya favorite mc aint doin it nomore.. get up off ya ass ..make the music u like..

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Hope Yung Xyal reads this.
 

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2008, 10:08:43 AM »
Ive said it once, I'll say it a million times. West Coast Fans just can't let go. That's why whenever there's another person doing hooks you see comments like "Nate should've done that hook!" or "Why not use Butch Cassidy?" Or you, when artists get producers outside of the West, "Why did they get some East Coast shit? That's wack! They should've got some G-Funk shit." Uh... It's 2008. G-Funk hasn't been shit in over 10 years. Why would anyone want that shit back? It's just cats can't get over it. They fell deeply in love with it and they're just not done with it.

Snoop can't try new things because his fans HATE that. They hate that Snoop is not exclusive to them anymore. God forbid if DJ Quik tried something new, people are having a heart attack. No artists from the West Coast really get the OK from their fans to go out and try new shit. Hell, even some artists from the West Coast don't get love from West Coast fans because they (the artists) aren't Gangsta, Street or G-Funk enough for them. But these fans still sit here and claim to be as West Coast as anyone. Which is also why I say they're hypocritical. They have the nerve to diss Southern dudes for their lyrical content, but big up Suga Free or Mac Shawn in the next sentence.

West Coast fans just aren't open. The Game is about as West Coast as they come, but his appeal extends well passed the West. There's a reason why he wasn't broke on the West Coast first. He had to get broken in New York and on THEIR Mixtape scene because the West Coast doesn't work that way. West Coast fans complain left and right about Mixtapes. They either getting them free or for real cheap and they're making all sorts of ridiculous excuses why they don't like them. If West Coast fans were more supportive of Mixtapes, believe that the Radio would be more supportive. But since the West Coast fans are a bunch of hoes, they don't support anything enough for it to blow up. Even when their "Gods" Snoop, Daz or Kurupt drop something, they find a reason to hate on their record. "Oh they had [insert non-West artist(s) here] on the record. They should've had RBX, Lady of Rage, Lil Half Dead, Butch Cassidy, Goldie Loc, Nate Dogg, Soopafly, or Mr. Malik on the record!!!!"

We're gonna have to wait for a new batch of West Coast fans. We're still surrounded by people who were introduced to the West Coast either during the G-Funk or 2001 era's of West Coast Hip Hop which were dominated by the same people they're in love with today. West Coast fans who were introduced to the West by Game, Omar Cruz, Bishop Lamont etc. will be a new day. Just gotta be patient and see what those fans do with the West Coast. These current fans, coupled with old ass rappers ain't doing shit with it.

Exactly what I think!!!!!
 

Westcoastfanatic

Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2008, 10:12:58 AM »
Musical Growth is great. I only buy albums from rappers or producers who try to do something that's innovative and original. But at the same time I want them to keep it real hip hop. Some producers like Timbaland and Pharell do sum original stuff, but their sound's too poppy for me. Best example of a producer who changes his sound every few years but still keeps it real/hardcore hip hop is of course the one and only D.R.E.
IS DETOX NEXT? Don't think so.
 

Ese Torsido

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2008, 10:22:47 AM »
Okay, let see how you guys handle this. I have a song by J-Pop singer Namie Amuro called "Cross Over." Years ago, she did a song with west coast rapper Kenny Kingpen (back then, he was known as Poppa LQ of The Regime). His rap appears at the very end of the song.

Here's my question: do you west coast fans approve of your rappers taking risky ventures such as this?

Namie Amuro feat. Kenny Kingpen / Poppa LQ - "Cross Over"
30-Second Snippet: http://www.zshare.net/audio/8786701abd566d/
Complete Rap Verse: http://www.zshare.net/audio/87865727c519d7/
 

Chad Vader

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2008, 10:50:40 AM »
Because West Coast fans are 13 to 19 years old..

ok  :P :-X I guess I must be the only gangster rap fan over 30 then  :P :-\ :-X :laugh:

they were too young to dig the G-Funk Era, so its new to them,
so they are wondering why the artists cant drop shit like that anymore,
because they didnt not have the chance to grow with the artist and get with his evolution.

ok  :P :-X  :-X :-X :-X

Look at Murs, Look at Madlib all those are from the west and
they actually make music that people can relate too and grow to,
but doesnt get support because it aint GANGSTA enough

ok  :P :-X  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X





Here are a couple points that are  ??? to me but I am not here to put people on blast.
Nas went from Nasty to Esco back to Escobar like the song say and he survived.
But with Snoop it seems like he loses more and more fans with every album.
And maybe Snoop is to blame partially for that but it's his career
at the end of the day and I dig alot of the new producers and concepts he has tried.

Nas went from Hip Hop to "Gangster rap",he still kept it "real".
But Snoop has gone the pop route and you know that pop is frowned upon amongst "so called" music heads.

Even the gap in gangsta rap and so called backpack rap out here on the west.
Most don't even appreciate a Murs, Evidence, Blu & Exile, etc for making just GOOD MUSIC.
It gets ignored because it don't sound like somebody else's shit.

I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem,Black eyed peas also do alternative rap... with great success.
If the successful acts like Black Eyed Peas,looked out for their underground peers like
Dre,Eazy,Snoop and Cube has done for their "gangster rap" peers,maybe they would had some more success?
Like you said they make quality music,but itīs just getting it out there.









But a bunch of people dont like it cause there young n dumb imo,
theyīre stuck with that gangsta music mentality,
they think the song has to be hard or its garbage,that aint the case,its music,
let the artists fuck around a bit and see what type of crack they come up with, people need to have a open mind!!!

 :P :P :-X :-X :-\ :-\

It doesn't have to be hard,it just has to be good.
Can't people just accept that other people think the beats and raps are wack on this album?
You can't keep hiding behind the excuse that it's so fresh that some people just aren't getting it.

Word  ;) ^^^^


Only to bring up interesting thoughts to the table, as Chad Vader and D-Nice said.
I couldn't come up with a straight answer because there's a lot of additional factors I left out.

I appriciate it, ;) trying to take the convo to new levels all the time.







 

wcsoldier

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2008, 11:05:56 AM »
(Most) of the rap fans are the most narrow minded people when it comes to music ... they are way to much into that" keep it real, gangsta, street crediblity" BS ...  lots of mainstream rap fans don't even like the music itself .. it's just to give themselves a tough image
 

D~Nice

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2008, 11:31:34 AM »
I don't know Chad. Nas recieved alot of backlash for that mafioso shit he was kicking on It Was Written. And we all know Nas ain't on that tip. I know comparison wise it is different but my point is that "phase" he went through it was talked about a little bit but not to the point Snoop has been criticized.
 

D~Nice

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2008, 11:46:05 AM »
And by no means am I letting Snoop off the hook and putting it on the fans. Or any artists for that matter. Just trying to spark some convo. Get a idea of what peeps are and are not checking for when they listen to WC music.
 

Chad Vader

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2008, 12:12:54 PM »
I don't know Chad. Nas recieved alot of backlash for that mafioso shit he was kicking on It Was Written.
And we all know Nas ain't on that tip.
I know comparison wise it is different but my point is that "phase" he went through
it was talked about a little bit but not to the point Snoop has been criticized.

But you clearly understood what I meant  ;)
Thatīs why I brought up; (in the previous thread)
Quote
What if Snoop did some Hip Hop shit,would cats think he "sucked New York dick"?

And by no means am I letting Snoop off the hook and putting it on the fans.
Or any artists for that matter. Just trying to spark some convo.
Get a idea of what peeps are and are not checking for when they listen to WC music.

Yep,thereīs other artists out there  ;)...
The world wont end just because a couple of artists starts to do other styles  :laugh: :P ;)