Author Topic: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?  (Read 2179 times)

SGV

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2008, 01:19:41 PM »

I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem,Black eyed peas also do alternative rap... with great success.
If the successful acts like Black Eyed Peas,looked out for their underground peers like
Dre,Eazy,Snoop and Cube has done for their "gangster rap" peers,maybe they would had some more success?
Like you said they make quality music,but itīs just getting it out there.


That's a cop out. BEP can never go back into the underground and big up those artists. Underground heads as a whole are just as douchey as West Coast Hip Hop fans. Let's say, as an example, Aceyalone put out an album and has a feature from BEP on there. Do you realize how many of his fans would be turned off? How outraged they'd be? To make such a comment as you did above makes me think that you're not putting too much thought into this. If we're talking "Joints and Jams" Black Eyed Peas, then you have a case. But you're talking "Where Is The Love" Black Eyed Peas. They're not the old Backpacking crew from East L.A./Pasadena area they once were. Since then they've went about 2 or 3 freeways over and picked up some white chick and became pop stars. Maybe Will.I.Am is able to go back and scoop up some talent, but more than likely an underground emcee will not hop on one of his beats. The other dudes aren't factors in the game in all reality. Black Eyed Peas are unable to go underground. The size of the line between Underground/Mainstream compared to Gangsta/Mainstream is HUGE. It's difficult to "turn your back" on the Underground and go Mainstream, then try to go back. Your fans probably won't be too happy. But look at dudes like MC Eiht who found some mainstream success, but was able to revert back to his "Gangsta Roots" and continue making music.
 

Chad Vader

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2008, 03:50:39 PM »
I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem,Black eyed peas also do alternative rap... with great success.
If the successful acts like Black Eyed Peas,looked out for their underground peers like
Dre,Eazy,Snoop and Cube has done for their "gangster rap" peers,maybe they would had some more success?
Like you said they make quality music,but itīs just getting it out there.

That's a cop out. BEP can never go back into the underground and big up those artists.
Underground heads as a whole are just as douchey as West Coast Hip Hop fans.

Why judge people for their musical preference?
So I will pass this as people in general,right?

Let's say, as an example, Aceyalone put out an album and has a feature from BEP on there.
Do you realize how many of his fans would be turned off? How outraged they'd be?

 :laugh: :laugh:
Sure,but you know what people do for money and fame sometimes (?)  :laugh: :laugh:

To make such a comment as you did above makes me think that you're not putting too much thought into this.
If we're talking "Joints and Jams" Black Eyed Peas, then you have a case.
But you're talking "Where Is The Love" Black Eyed Peas.
They're not the old Backpacking crew from East L.A./Pasadena area they once were.
Since then they've went about 2 or 3 freeways over and picked up some white chick and became pop stars.
Maybe Will.I.Am is able to go back and scoop up some talent,
but more than likely an underground emcee will not hop on one of his beats.
The other dudes aren't factors in the game in all reality.
Black Eyed Peas are unable to go underground.

I was speaking hypothetical.  ;)
There is no secret that it takes some sacrifices to cross over to a bigger audience.
You got to see your beloved underground artist "sell out",this happens all the time.
You canīt hate them for trying to feed their family,shit happens...
nothing to be mad about  ;),thereīs always another "underground" artist to discover.

The size of the line between Underground/Mainstream compared to Gangsta/Mainstream is HUGE.

I donīt agree.... thereīs just as big range between a underground alternative rapper as a underground gangster rapper.
Not sure what brings you to that conclusion,
but I got to assume you donīt know the underground "gangster rap" scene to well. (correct me if Iīm wrong)  ;)
I check for both generes and seriously Iīm tired of this bickering between the alternative scene and the gangster scene.
Whoīs most real and underground... etc.  :P
Itīs even more pathetic when the fans innvolve themself.  :P :-X :-\

It's difficult to "turn your back" on the Underground and go Mainstream, then try to go back.
Your fans probably won't be too happy.

Well in the fans eyes "youīre" a traitor  :laugh:


But look at dudes like MC Eiht who found some mainstream success,
but was able to revert back to his "Gangsta Roots" and continue making music.

I donīt think his fans saw his 5 minutes of fame as "sell out".
The music was somewhat still the same.
 

SGV

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2008, 04:25:09 PM »

Why judge people for their musical preference?
So I will pass this as people in general,right?

Quote
How many Backpackers have you met? You must have not met many if any at all to not understand how Underground heads think. I'm not judging on preference, I'm "judging" on lack of openess.

 :laugh: :laugh:
Sure,but you know what people do for money and fame sometimes (?)  :laugh: :laugh:

Quote
Yeah, people do a lot for money and fame. But that's not what I asked. Nor was it really relevant.

I was speaking hypothetical.  ;)
There is no secret that it takes some sacrifices to cross over to a bigger audience.
You got to see your beloved underground artist "sell out",this happens all the time.
You canīt hate them for trying to feed their family,shit happens...
nothing to be mad about  ;),thereīs always another "underground" artist to discover.

Quote
You're right, you can't hate them for trying to feed their family. But, what you fail to realize how Underground heads/Backpackers are.

I donīt agree.... thereīs just as big range between a underground alternative rapper as a underground gangster rapper.
Not sure what brings you to that conclusion,
but I got to assume you donīt know the underground "gangster rap" scene to well. (correct me if Iīm wrong)  ;)
I check for both generes and seriously Iīm tired of this bickering between the alternative scene and the gangster scene.
Whoīs most real and underground... etc.  :P
Itīs even more pathetic when the fans innvolve themself.  :P :-X :-\

Quote
LOL. Who do I need to know about in the "Underground Gangster Rap" scene? C-Lim? Young Droop? Hound Foundation? Any random Swap Meet Cholo rapper? Killa Tay? I can go on... But that's neither here nor there. The fact that "Gangster" Rap is not a taboo any longer to the masses (nor has it been for over 10 years) it's much easier for a "gangster" rapper to cross the mainstream line, than an Underground rapper. Look at artists like Game, Rick Ross, Young Jeezy, Styles P, etc. They're gangster rappers. They all rap street shit, but are on a mainstream scale. Now how many Backpackers are out there in the mainstream right now? Common. Kweli.

Well in the fans eyes "youīre" a traitor  :laugh:

Quote
Uh... Yeah. I know.

I donīt think his fans saw his 5 minutes of fame as "sell out".
The music was somewhat still the same.

Quote
That's exactly it. Which furthers my case that difference between Underground Gangster and Mainstream Rapper is MUCH closer than Backpack and Mainstream.
 

Tay

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2008, 05:11:36 PM »

I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem,Black eyed peas also do alternative rap... with great success.
If the successful acts like Black Eyed Peas,looked out for their underground peers like
Dre,Eazy,Snoop and Cube has done for their "gangster rap" peers,maybe they would had some more success?
Like you said they make quality music,but itīs just getting it out there.


That's a cop out. BEP can never go back into the underground and big up those artists. Underground heads as a whole are just as douchey as West Coast Hip Hop fans. Let's say, as an example, Aceyalone put out an album and has a feature from BEP on there. Do you realize how many of his fans would be turned off? How outraged they'd be? To make such a comment as you did above makes me think that you're not putting too much thought into this. If we're talking "Joints and Jams" Black Eyed Peas, then you have a case. But you're talking "Where Is The Love" Black Eyed Peas. They're not the old Backpacking crew from East L.A./Pasadena area they once were. Since then they've went about 2 or 3 freeways over and picked up some white chick and became pop stars. Maybe Will.I.Am is able to go back and scoop up some talent, but more than likely an underground emcee will not hop on one of his beats. The other dudes aren't factors in the game in all reality. Black Eyed Peas are unable to go underground. The size of the line between Underground/Mainstream compared to Gangsta/Mainstream is HUGE. It's difficult to "turn your back" on the Underground and go Mainstream, then try to go back. Your fans probably won't be too happy. But look at dudes like MC Eiht who found some mainstream success, but was able to revert back to his "Gangsta Roots" and continue making music.

This post and the other one you made at the top of this page might be too real for people to get, but damn they are on point. As far as the gaps, most of the mainstream radio is somewhat gangsta influenced, even if it's just some wack gangsta references over a pop beat and a girl hook. Part of the problem comes with the labeling of "underground", "backpacker", "gangsta". It almost turns into a thing where you have to support an entire movement, so if you like Keak Da Sneak, you're almost forced to buy into "hyphy", even if it's a horrible rapper like BavGate. If you like the Living Legends and Atmosphere, you have to get into the "underground", even if you don't really like Sage Francis. The differences between mainstream are this: An underground hip-hopper who does it for the love would be despised if he sold out for one or two singles to get that mainstream shine. An underground gangsta rapper is just one hit away from making his money and feeding his family.
I got a bird's eye view
 

D~Nice

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2008, 06:31:12 PM »
Chad I definitely get what you are saying. SGV, Killa Tay, good points also. Yeah there is a EXTREME gap between the underground and mainstream out west. Probably is better that way for both but you always have some artists that are right on the cusp of becoming mainstream. Dilated is a good example. That track they did with Kanye ALMOST got them there, maybe if it was released last year and they would have been there. I guess my big thing is how much artistic say or direction would a group like Dilated sacrifice if it would have happened. And would the fans be open to it. A exact opposite of this would be the Alkaholiks. If Hip Hop Drunkies would have been allowed to be released properly, it probably would have made them household names. Did not happen. Best U Can drops with Pharrell and there again people bash it. Is it because it's Pharrell and they are trying something new or is it because the song is that bad?
 

Ese Torsido

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2008, 06:38:25 PM »
That's why I posted a sample song here for everyone to peep out. So far, no one has commented on it.
 

D~Nice

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2008, 06:41:08 PM »
That's why I posted a sample song here for everyone to peep out. So far, no one has commented on it.

My bad homie, I will check it out and comment on it.
 

D~Nice

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2008, 06:49:55 PM »
Okay, let see how you guys handle this. I have a song by J-Pop singer Namie Amuro called "Cross Over." Years ago, she did a song with west coast rapper Kenny Kingpen (back then, he was known as Poppa LQ of The Regime). His rap appears at the very end of the song.

Here's my question: do you west coast fans approve of your rappers taking risky ventures such as this?

Namie Amuro feat. Kenny Kingpen / Poppa LQ - "Cross Over"
30-Second Snippet: http://www.zshare.net/audio/8786701abd566d/
Complete Rap Verse: http://www.zshare.net/audio/87865727c519d7/


I checked it out. I was not too fond of the beat to be honest but I don't knock Kenny for doing the track. I don't mind any new ventures a artist will try. As long as it's not forced down the fans throat with it. Like Cypress for example. I like how they did Skull & Bones. Give your hip hop fans a disc worth of dope rap and experiment on the other disc with rock. Try a few things here and there but just don't go completely to a different genre.
 

D~Nice

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2008, 06:58:25 PM »
I take some of that last statement back. There are SOME ventures I just can't get with that artists do. Too $hort rocking the whole Hyphy movement thing I can't do it. BRING BACK ANT BANKS!  ;D 8)
 

Amplified

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2008, 12:26:54 AM »
I take some of that last statement back. There are SOME ventures I just can't get with that artists do. Too $hort rocking the whole Hyphy movement thing I can't do it. BRING BACK ANT BANKS!  ;D 8)

Please bring him back!!!! Was playing Get In Where U Fit In Today thinking the same thing!!!
 

Dre-Day

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2008, 12:51:01 AM »
Quote
LOL. Who do I need to know about in the "Underground Gangster Rap" scene? C-Lim? Young Droop? Hound Foundation? Any random Swap Meet Cholo rapper? Killa Tay? I can go on... But that's neither here nor there. The fact that "Gangster" Rap is not a taboo any longer to the masses (nor has it been for over 10 years) it's much easier for a "gangster" rapper to cross the mainstream line, than an Underground rapper. Look at artists like Game, Rick Ross, Young Jeezy, Styles P, etc. They're gangster rappers. They all rap street shit, but are on a mainstream scale. Now how many Backpackers are out there in the mainstream right now? Common. Kweli.
i assume you don't like Gangster rap; just because you don't know many "underground" gangster rappers, doesn't mean they don't exist.

I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem
exactly. i mean in snoop's case, yeah he does something different than with BCT, but both albums are mainstream.
i believe snoop can make a Gangster rap album that's true to his roots but isn't another recreation of Doggystyle.

it's just disappointing to see that "the formula" is still working.
look at at all the topics about ego trippin' (by the way, i'm not knocking anybody for liking the album)

SGV

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2008, 06:23:14 AM »

This post and the other one you made at the top of this page might be too real for people to get, but damn they are on point. As far as the gaps, most of the mainstream radio is somewhat gangsta influenced, even if it's just some wack gangsta references over a pop beat and a girl hook. Part of the problem comes with the labeling of "underground", "backpacker", "gangsta". It almost turns into a thing where you have to support an entire movement, so if you like Keak Da Sneak, you're almost forced to buy into "hyphy", even if it's a horrible rapper like BavGate. If you like the Living Legends and Atmosphere, you have to get into the "underground", even if you don't really like Sage Francis. The differences between mainstream are this: An underground hip-hopper who does it for the love would be despised if he sold out for one or two singles to get that mainstream shine. An underground gangsta rapper is just one hit away from making his money and feeding his family.

More than likely though, if you're into Keak, you'll probably be into the Hyphy Movement. That's not always the case, but that's usually what happens. I agree, labeling does cause problems but I got these labels, such as "Back Pack" and shit from the Backpackers in High School. They pretty much called themselves Backpackers. They were big time Project Blowed fans. Heavy into Living Legends. Hated anything remotely popular. Thought everything HAD to be lyrical to be dope. Didn't care if there was wack production, voices or hooks, as long as the lyrics were dope. It pretty much carried over everytime I met someone who was into mainly Underground shit. So the label just stuck for me. But, I see your point on labeling. But yes, Gangster rappers are def. just one hit away from that success they're looking for. I don't understand how anyone cannot comprehend that.

I take some of that last statement back. There are SOME ventures I just can't get with that artists do. Too $hort rocking the whole Hyphy movement thing I can't do it. BRING BACK ANT BANKS!  ;D 8)

I think that Short doing his thing with the Hyphy Movement was a good look for him. Short's been in the game 20 years. He's gotta do something to keep himself relevant. What better than co-signing the youngsters in his city? He can't keep doing the same shit he did all those years ago and STILL be relevant.


i assume you don't like Gangster rap; just because you don't know many "underground" gangster rappers, doesn't mean they don't exist.


Uh... Really? Do you want me to sit here and really name all the "underground gangster rappers" I know? LOL. Maybe you misread or something, but I never said they don't exist.
 

Chad Vader

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2008, 10:39:23 AM »
Why judge people for their musical preference?
So I will pass this as people in general,right?

How many Backpackers have you met?
You must have not met many if any at all to not understand how Underground heads think.
I'm not judging on preference, I'm "judging" on lack of openess.

Let me change the words around a little bit for you;
"All Arabic people hate Americans and wants to kill them"  :-X
Why judge people for; where theyīre from,color,religion and sexual preferences?

How many Arabic people have you met?
You must have not met many if any at all to not understand how Arabic people think.

 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
...Warning;
No netbanging,name calling allowed in here,this is a serious thread.


Iīll just leave this thread with these words;
Iīm tired of this bickering between the alternative scene and the gangster scene.
Whoīs most real,underground and hardcore... etc.  :P
Itīs even more pathetic when the fans innvolve themself.  :P :-X :-\
« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 10:41:07 AM by Chad Vader Supporter of the Kill Jimmy Iovine Movement »
 

D~Nice

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2008, 11:34:45 AM »

This post and the other one you made at the top of this page might be too real for people to get, but damn they are on point. As far as the gaps, most of the mainstream radio is somewhat gangsta influenced, even if it's just some wack gangsta references over a pop beat and a girl hook. Part of the problem comes with the labeling of "underground", "backpacker", "gangsta". It almost turns into a thing where you have to support an entire movement, so if you like Keak Da Sneak, you're almost forced to buy into "hyphy", even if it's a horrible rapper like BavGate. If you like the Living Legends and Atmosphere, you have to get into the "underground", even if you don't really like Sage Francis. The differences between mainstream are this: An underground hip-hopper who does it for the love would be despised if he sold out for one or two singles to get that mainstream shine. An underground gangsta rapper is just one hit away from making his money and feeding his family.

More than likely though, if you're into Keak, you'll probably be into the Hyphy Movement. That's not always the case, but that's usually what happens. I agree, labeling does cause problems but I got these labels, such as "Back Pack" and shit from the Backpackers in High School. They pretty much called themselves Backpackers. They were big time Project Blowed fans. Heavy into Living Legends. Hated anything remotely popular. Thought everything HAD to be lyrical to be dope. Didn't care if there was wack production, voices or hooks, as long as the lyrics were dope. It pretty much carried over everytime I met someone who was into mainly Underground shit. So the label just stuck for me. But, I see your point on labeling. But yes, Gangster rappers are def. just one hit away from that success they're looking for. I don't understand how anyone cannot comprehend that.

I take some of that last statement back. There are SOME ventures I just can't get with that artists do. Too $hort rocking the whole Hyphy movement thing I can't do it. BRING BACK ANT BANKS!  ;D 8)

I think that Short doing his thing with the Hyphy Movement was a good look for him. Short's been in the game 20 years. He's gotta do something to keep himself relevant. What better than co-signing the youngsters in his city? He can't keep doing the same shit he did all those years ago and STILL be relevant.


i assume you don't like Gangster rap; just because you don't know many "underground" gangster rappers, doesn't mean they don't exist.


Uh... Really? Do you want me to sit here and really name all the "underground gangster rappers" I know? LOL. Maybe you misread or something, but I never said they don't exist.

Maybe I should re phrase that then. The hyphy sound does not fit $hort IMO. I definitely applaud him for supporting the movement.
 

Tay

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Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2008, 01:35:23 PM »

This post and the other one you made at the top of this page might be too real for people to get, but damn they are on point. As far as the gaps, most of the mainstream radio is somewhat gangsta influenced, even if it's just some wack gangsta references over a pop beat and a girl hook. Part of the problem comes with the labeling of "underground", "backpacker", "gangsta". It almost turns into a thing where you have to support an entire movement, so if you like Keak Da Sneak, you're almost forced to buy into "hyphy", even if it's a horrible rapper like BavGate. If you like the Living Legends and Atmosphere, you have to get into the "underground", even if you don't really like Sage Francis. The differences between mainstream are this: An underground hip-hopper who does it for the love would be despised if he sold out for one or two singles to get that mainstream shine. An underground gangsta rapper is just one hit away from making his money and feeding his family.

More than likely though, if you're into Keak, you'll probably be into the Hyphy Movement. That's not always the case, but that's usually what happens. I agree, labeling does cause problems but I got these labels, such as "Back Pack" and shit from the Backpackers in High School. They pretty much called themselves Backpackers. They were big time Project Blowed fans. Heavy into Living Legends. Hated anything remotely popular. Thought everything HAD to be lyrical to be dope. Didn't care if there was wack production, voices or hooks, as long as the lyrics were dope. It pretty much carried over everytime I met someone who was into mainly Underground shit. So the label just stuck for me. But, I see your point on labeling. But yes, Gangster rappers are def. just one hit away from that success they're looking for. I don't understand how anyone cannot comprehend that.

This is true, and it is also a big reason for why the fans don't allow growth in their artists. Because they label themselves and their specific music, they are closed-minded about anybody who isn't in that category, and don't want their group of artists to do anything different. Also, they tack on to artists just because they are a part of the movement, even if a backpacker might appreciate the style of a "gangsta" rapper more. There's another thread about a new Del interview, where he was talking about how people were trying too hard to be lyrical, trying to sound intelligent, and that really made sense to me. It just fits in with the whole concept of people trying to fall in line with a certain movement. As for Dilated, they had the major label thing going with Neighborhood Watch, and 20/20, and this was after years of grinding. They had their single with Kanye, and it did well, but that rarely happens. Almost every couple of months, you have a new "gangsta" rapper break through with a big hit when barely anyone has heard of them.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 03:25:36 PM by KillaTay10 Supporter of the 'Kill Jimmy Iovine Movement' »
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