Author Topic: What will be Aftermath's legacy?  (Read 2383 times)

corner_boy

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2008, 08:16:00 PM »
Anyone who thinks Aftermath will leave a lasting legacy is confusing the label with the individuals Dre, Eminem and 50.

Dr Dre, without question, will go down in the hip-hop history books. It's a pretty sure thing that Eminem and 50 will too. '2001', 'The Marshall Mathers LP' and 'Get Rich or Die Tryin'' will all probably stand the test of time.

But when - if - anyone thinks about the label behind those releases, they'll think of Interscope, not Aftermath.

What made labels such as Death Row, Bad Boy and No Limit were that they were movements as much as companies. When you think of any one of those names, for better or worse, you think about more than the music. Think Death Row, think Suge Knight and the logo swinging on chains; think Bad Boy, think a new era in commercial hip-pop and Puffy's shift into mass market culture; think No Limit, think of Master P's relentless work ethic and 'conveyor belt' approach to releasing music. You can argue that none of those labels put out a record that impacted hip-hop as much as '2001', but from a corporate perspective they changed and broke the rules about how a hip-hop record company functions.

What does Aftermath have in that respect? Little. It's essentially a vanity label for Dre that he's now largely sold back to Interscope from what I understand. It's not a movement, it's not a name that gets regularly shouted out by artists on its records. It's a logo. Three great albums don't make a great label - they just make three great albums.

That's not neccessarily a bad thing. Dre doesn't need Aftermath to have as a legacy. He's Dr Dre.

great post, +1

Preach!

i really couldnt have said it better myself. 
 

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2008, 10:38:55 PM »
Aftermath will be remembered as one of the greatest hip-hop labels of all time.
 

lost_assassin

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2008, 12:07:36 AM »
em -dre-fifty all at their best, but im afraid that era was quickly vanished. apperantly now ''lil wayne is the best rapper alive''
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Lazar

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2008, 02:27:09 AM »
Will be remembered as Dre biggest mistake, if nothing good happens in the next couple years. Damn, they really fell of hard after "2001"

me1

Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2008, 03:55:15 AM »
I'm a little surprised at how little love the label is getting in this thread.

Take a look at this link:

http://www.aftermathmusic.com/vs2008/_store/index.html

Those are the releases associated with Aftermath.  That list doesn't include Devil's Night (indisputably classic in my opinion), Obie's two releases (also classics in my opinion), G-Unit's Beg For Mercy and T.O.S. (best group efforts in the industry, I'd have to say, in many many years).  Also, Bank's first and second LPs (has there been a better mainstream single that's got a heater for a beat and is more lyrical than I'm So Fly), Buck's first and second LPs....and say what you want about Yayo, there are a couple bangers on his LP (I Know You Don't Love Me, So Seductive, Live By The Gun).  Also, Game might never have seen mainstream release and the recording budget he got without Aftermath (and let's be real, 50 providing the song structure he needed to blow).  So without the label we might never have seen Doctor's Advocate and now LAX.

Also, the label embraced the mixtape game via 50 who singlehandedly resurrected it.  Does everyone remember Invasion 1,2 and 3 that Green Lantern dropped?  You had Aftermath artists (50 and Eminem, primarily, D12 to a lesser degree) revolutionizing the quality of mixtape music available for the public ear for free.  And they brought it to their enemies on those mixtapes...even going as far as LETTING YOU HEAR THE OPPOSITION'S DISSES ON THEIR OWN MIXTAPE so you could compare the two.  That's sick. 

There hasn't been a more successful run by any rap label, bar none.  That's just my 2 Cents. 
That's one hell of a 9 yr run.  I bump all that sh*t. 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 11:23:23 AM by manny1 »
 

Lord Funk

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2008, 04:16:19 AM »
Anyone who thinks Aftermath will leave a lasting legacy is confusing the label with the individuals Dre, Eminem and 50.

I actually agree with a lot of what you said in your post, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second and argue against you


What made labels such as Death Row, Bad Boy and No Limit were that they were movements as much as companies. When you think of any one of those names, for better or worse, you think about more than the music. Think Death Row, think Suge Knight and the logo swinging on chains; think Bad Boy, think a new era in commercial hip-pop and Puffy's shift into mass market culture; think No Limit, think of Master P's relentless work ethic and 'conveyor belt' approach to releasing music.

...The problem with both Bad Boy and No Limit is they're both seen as hack labels run by people who are good businessmen and know what sells, but who aren't musical geniuses

I think almost all your points here are valid, but the thing about that last comment is that it's not actually a problem.

There's no reason anyone should expect the head of a record label to be a "musical genius" - business know-how is much more important. Look at EMI, a major record label in the UK - it struggled for years in the face of a failing music industry. Last year it was bought by Terra Firma, a private equity firm run by a guy known for cost-cutting and turnaround skills, and now their profits are up by Ģ100m (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jul/15/emi)

It's doubtful EMI would be in that position if Guy Hands at Terra Firma had asked Robbie Williams or Coldplay's Chris Martin to help him oversee the label because they were successful artists...The kind of skills you need to run a record label are completely different to the kind of skills to produce that label's product. So while you say that the 'problem' with Bad Boy and No Limit was that they were run by good businessmen who werent musical geniuses, I'd argue that the problem with Aftermath is that it's run by a musical genius who's not a good businessman... Dre will always be known for the quality of his music, but I simply don't believe that Aftermath has acheived, on a corporate and business level, what something like No Limit did, regardless of how much better the end product is.
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UCC

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2008, 09:53:32 AM »
So while you say that the 'problem' with Bad Boy and No Limit was that they were run by good businessmen who werent musical geniuses, I'd argue that the problem with Aftermath is that it's run by a musical genius who's not a good businessman... Dre will always be known for the quality of his music, but I simply don't believe that Aftermath has acheived, on a corporate and business level, what something like No Limit did, regardless of how much better the end product is.


Well no, Aftermath has a musical genius at the top in charge of making sure the product is good, and a business genius, Jimmy, making sure it sells, so it has both

Bad Boy and No Limit both had the business side down and not the musical side down, so they're inferior... and Aftermath has sold as much or more than them. I don't see how you and others can say that Aftermath is not a good business - they pretty much have only released hugely popular and high selling records - Eminem's albums, 50 Cent's, Dre's - those were some of the highest selling records ever, so what are they doing wrong as a business?


Some people are saying that it's a label where artists go to sit on the shelf or don't bring out an album - but that's a good business move! You don't spend shitloads on promotion if an album will flop, and Dre and Jimmy have made a loooad of great choices which have worked so far - they have sold millions and been critically acclaimed - No Limit didn't do that, and Bad Boy didn't do that... Death Row did that for 2-3 albums before it collapsed because the business man was taking up too much control on the music side, instead of letting the musical genius handle that mostly
Dre didn't bring out King T because it would have flopped, he didn't bring out Hitman because it would have flopped - if he'd let those albums come out Aftermath would have been in way worse shape... but instead he put out Eminem and 50 Cent - you can't argue with the success they've had, they're arguable the two most well know people in HipHop!


For all the noise they make and major deals they broker, how many Eminem's and 50 Cent's have Jay-Z and Diddy brought to the table in the last 8 years? For a guy as big as Dre is to not be the biggest artist on his label says something. He's much more of an artist than Puffy but he doesn't try to play the spotlight. Eminem and 50 Cent are bigger stars than Dre. I'll give Jay-Z credit for Kanye but Jay was still the bigger star. Aftermath has 4 Eminem albums that pushed millions, 50's debut was the biggest one in rap ever, and Game did major numbers on his. If Interscope could have got that kind of buzz without Aftermath, they would have. There's a reason Jimmy paid Dre a fortune for those shares.  Strictly on artist-based success, you take Diddy, Jay-Z, 50 Cent, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, and these other artist/producers running labels and whether it's joint venture with another label or on their own, how many of them have used their own name value to push a star up higher than they were? Not many examples I can think of.

Exactly - Aftermath has successfully brought out 2-3 of the biggest stars in HipHop, ever, since it started, and has been critically acclaimed every step of the way - who else has done that?
 

D~Nice

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2008, 10:17:21 AM »
I think they have to go down in the record books as one of the greatest labels of all time. And not only that, their vaults have got to have to dope unreleased albums as well. I would like to hear ANYTHING Rakim did from that Oh My God album. That would have been one of the most anticipated albums of all time and maybe one of the best if it had dropped. But oh well. I did the thread because it seems like it is the in thing to diss that label, but don't get it twisted, they did their thing.
 

Jimmy H.

Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2008, 10:22:56 AM »
Will be remembered as Dre biggest mistake, if nothing good happens in the next couple years. Damn, they really fell of hard after "2001"
Fell off hard? Their biggest success came after that album dropped. I'd love for my biggest mistake to be albums like "Marshall Mathers LP", "Get Rich Or Die Tryin" and "The Documentary".
 

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2008, 10:23:35 AM »
They were a powerhouse from 99-03. Then Dre and Em stopped caring/got older and 50 got all the money he wanted/ became a business man.
 

smegma

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2008, 10:26:47 AM »
D12World (indisputably classic in my opinion), Obie's two releases (also classics in my opinion), G-Unit's Beg For Mercy and T.O.S. (best group efforts in the industry, I'd have to say, in many many years).

 :laugh:
 

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2008, 10:37:49 AM »
So while you say that the 'problem' with Bad Boy and No Limit was that they were run by good businessmen who werent musical geniuses, I'd argue that the problem with Aftermath is that it's run by a musical genius who's not a good businessman... Dre will always be known for the quality of his music, but I simply don't believe that Aftermath has acheived, on a corporate and business level, what something like No Limit did, regardless of how much better the end product is.


Well no, Aftermath has a musical genius at the top in charge of making sure the product is good, and a business genius, Jimmy, making sure it sells, so it has both

Bad Boy and No Limit both had the business side down and not the musical side down, so they're inferior... and Aftermath has sold as much or more than them. I don't see how you and others can say that Aftermath is not a good business - they pretty much have only released hugely popular and high selling records - Eminem's albums, 50 Cent's, Dre's - those were some of the highest selling records ever, so what are they doing wrong as a business?


Some people are saying that it's a label where artists go to sit on the shelf or don't bring out an album - but that's a good business move! You don't spend shitloads on promotion if an album will flop, and Dre and Jimmy have made a loooad of great choices which have worked so far - they have sold millions and been critically acclaimed - No Limit didn't do that, and Bad Boy didn't do that... Death Row did that for 2-3 albums before it collapsed because the business man was taking up too much control on the music side, instead of letting the musical genius handle that mostly
Dre didn't bring out King T because it would have flopped, he didn't bring out Hitman because it would have flopped - if he'd let those albums come out Aftermath would have been in way worse shape... but instead he put out Eminem and 50 Cent - you can't argue with the success they've had, they're arguable the two most well know people in HipHop!


Dre didn't decide that, interscope did.

Dre actually wanted to put out a hittman and a King T album :P

me1

Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2008, 11:24:23 AM »
D12World (indisputably classic in my opinion), Obie's two releases (also classics in my opinion), G-Unit's Beg For Mercy and T.O.S. (best group efforts in the industry, I'd have to say, in many many years).

 :laugh:

My bad..meant to say Devil's Night, not D12World....hopefully that's what you found funny!
 

UCC

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2008, 11:41:44 AM »
Dre didn't decide that, interscope did.

Dre actually wanted to put out a hittman and a King T album :P


You sure, where does it say that? I thought Dre saw the early reviews for King T's album and they decided to shelve it... and after Hittman wasn't getting too much buzz after 2001 they shelved that too



Will be remembered as Dre biggest mistake, if nothing good happens in the next couple years. Damn, they really fell of hard after "2001"
Fell off hard? Their biggest success came after that album dropped. I'd love for my biggest mistake to be albums like "Marshall Mathers LP", "Get Rich Or Die Tryin" and "The Documentary".


Exactly, people confuse 'falling off' with 'haven't dropped anything in a minute' - but I'd rather they take their time and release the same quality has they have done rather than dropping something wack and actually falling off
 

Lazar

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2008, 11:46:20 AM »
Will be remembered as Dre biggest mistake, if nothing good happens in the next couple years. Damn, they really fell of hard after "2001"
Fell off hard? Their biggest success came after that album dropped. I'd love for my biggest mistake to be albums like "The Marshall Mathers LP", "Get Rich Or Die Tryin" and "The Documentary".

Just because they were successful doesnīt mean they also did good albums ;) Ok, no doubt that the "The Marshall Mathers LP" was really good, probably Emīs best album. "Get Rich..." was a nice mainstream album, but overall nothing special and "The Documentary" is overated IMO (and Iīm saying that as a Game fan). People just like "The Documentary" that much beacuse Dre did some joints.

What I really meant when I said it was his biggest misstake was that Dre gave the whole power over Aftermath to Jimmy Iovine. Everything Jimmy says is word. With people like Rakim, Game, Bishop, Busta, Em, Stat and Eve on Aftermath it would have been easily the best and the most powerful label in todays Hip-Hop, but with all those drops from the label and all the albums we are waiting for years, itīs far away from beeing the best labels. I really hope for Dre that he get out the contract with Interscope after "Detox" so that he can founds a new label where nobody tell him what he has to do and what not

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2008, 11:55:57 AM »
Dre didn't decide that, interscope did.

Dre actually wanted to put out a hittman and a King T album :P


You sure, where does it say that? I thought Dre saw the early reviews for King T's album and they decided to shelve it... and after Hittman wasn't getting too much buzz after 2001 they shelved that too


well it's in the dr.dre biography book by Ronin Ro ( the book sometimes quotes stuff, so i can't remember the original sources)

yeah it mentions the reviews too, but interscope rejected the singles from thy Kingdom come; Dre wanted to give it another try to please interscope but King T didn't so they parted ways.

as far as hittman is concerned, let's just say that Aftermath/Interscope and Hittman were not on the same page.

Hittman sort of confirms that in interviews ( he did one with dubcnn, but i'm not sure if that one is related to this).

Chad Vader posted scans of the interview with the source, maybe it's in there.

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2008, 04:17:16 PM »
shiiit i just made such a long post for this but then wasnt feeling it and deleted the whole muthafucker...and posted this shit in instead....pshhhh lol
 

Jimmy H.

Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2008, 04:43:44 PM »
Just because they were successful doesnīt mean they also did good albums ;) Ok, no doubt that the "The Marshall Mathers LP" was really good, probably Emīs best album. "Get Rich..." was a nice mainstream album, but overall nothing special and "The Documentary" is overated IMO (and Iīm saying that as a Game fan). People just like "The Documentary" that much beacuse Dre did some joints.  

Well, everyone's gonna have a different view of what is good. Fact is they were commercially and critically received as being the biggest albums of the year. Their success continued to cement Dre's repuation as being the best producer in hip-hop. Aftermath was responsible for the music.


What I really meant when I said it was his biggest misstake was that Dre gave the whole power over Aftermath to Jimmy Iovine. Everything Jimmy says is word. With people like Rakim, Game, Bishop, Busta, Em, Stat and Eve on Aftermath it would have been easily the best and the most powerful label in todays Hip-Hop, but with all those drops from the label and all the albums we are waiting for years, itīs far away from beeing the best labels. I really hope for Dre that he get out the contract with Interscope after "Detox" so that he can founds a new label where nobody tell him what he has to do and what not
Jimmy always had the power. That never changed. Dre was never the business man in the equation. He was the hit maker. Even these labels like Roc-A-Fella, Death Row, and Murder Inc. that had both business-savy heads (Irv, Suge, Dame) and music people (Ja, Dre, Jay) were still answering to Interscope and Def Jam. The same way Cadillac Tah rode the bench while Ashanti put out album after album, King T or Rakim were shelved for Eminem and 50. That's just how it happens. Every ones of these labels during their hot period was answering to the major that was putting their album in stores. The reason we are waiting on these albums is because Dre takes his time with them. No matter where he goes, that's unlikely to change. What labels do you think are the best by the way?  
 

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2008, 08:27:32 PM »
Aftermath have been crazy succesful, you can't deny that. I tihnk the only difference with Aftermaths legacy when compared to Death Row, No Limit, Rocafella or Bad Boy is that Aftermath never really had a movement associated with it, didn't have wild cunts riding out for them constantly shouting out their name etc. Aftermath does have a sorta specific sound though and thats that dre/em dark sound that changed the game...
 

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2008, 08:41:43 PM »
D12World (indisputably classic in my opinion), Obie's two releases (also classics in my opinion), G-Unit's Beg For Mercy and T.O.S. (best group efforts in the industry, I'd have to say, in many many years).

 :laugh:

My bad..meant to say Devil's Night, not D12World....hopefully that's what you found funny!

Still :laugh:
 

me1

Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2008, 04:08:29 AM »
D12World (indisputably classic in my opinion), Obie's two releases (also classics in my opinion), G-Unit's Beg For Mercy and T.O.S. (best group efforts in the industry, I'd have to say, in many many years).

 :laugh:

My bad..meant to say Devil's Night, not D12World....hopefully that's what you found funny!

Still :laugh:

Devil's Night is dope...give it a listen again.  Dope Dre productions, Em comes raw on it, and the other dudes carry their weight too (even if you don't know their names)
 

Black Excellence

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2008, 04:56:44 AM »
it doesn't have that raw uncut talent that death row(92-96)had. if he had kept king t,and signed niggas like knoc turn al, timebomb, xzibit,jayo felony,snoop dogg,tha dogg pound and kept rbx he woulda exceeded death row and would have a legacy. he just need to get rid of the clutter over there and start fresh(artist wise). i'm waiting to see what he's gonna do wit the d.o.c.'s upcoming album.
Disagree. West Coast fans would have loved that roster no doubt but the critics would have dismissed it after awhile as being the same shit he did at Death Row. He had a heavy hand in Xzibit's career as it was for a couple years. Of those rappers you named, none of them would have been Eminem or 50 Cent as far as sales go. People can argue that sales aren't everything but Eminem and 50 are a huge part of the reason that people are still checking for Dre outside of the L.A. area.
yeah but do you think snoop, tha dogg pound,and others on death row at the time woulda sold records if it wasn't for dre being there? no. what i'm sayin' is anything dre puts him stamp on people tend to gravitate towards. 5-0 was a no name nigga and look what dre and em did for his career: made him a household name.
"Summa y'all #mediocres more worried bout my goings on than u is about ya own.... But that ain't none of my business so.....I'll just #SipTeaForKermit #ifitaintaboutdamoney #2sugarspleaseFollow," - T.I.
 

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2008, 10:35:49 AM »
yeah but do you think snoop, tha dogg pound,and others on death row at the time woulda sold records if it wasn't for dre being there? no. what i'm sayin' is anything dre puts him stamp on people tend to gravitate towards. 5-0 was a no name nigga and look what dre and em did for his career: made him a household name.

50 Cent had a lot of things going for him when his debut dropped. He didn't sell a million plus the first week, simply off the strength of Eminem and Dre. If it were as easy as that, every artist they put out would be doing those numbers. When 50 Cent came out, he had it covered in many areas. He had a compelling story that people were interested in. He had an underground audience through the mixtape circuit. He was going at Ja Rule who a lot of fans were sick of. Dre was a contributing factor unquestionably but as good as he is, he wouldn't have sold like that with Dogg Pound or Knoc-Turn'al. 
 

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Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2008, 04:25:31 PM »
yeah but do you think snoop, tha dogg pound,and others on death row at the time woulda sold records if it wasn't for dre being there? no. what i'm sayin' is anything dre puts him stamp on people tend to gravitate towards. 5-0 was a no name nigga and look what dre and em did for his career: made him a household name.

50 Cent had a lot of things going for him when his debut dropped. He didn't sell a million plus the first week, simply off the strength of Eminem and Dre. If it were as easy as that, every artist they put out would be doing those numbers. When 50 Cent came out, he had it covered in many areas. He had a compelling story that people were interested in. He had an underground audience through the mixtape circuit. He was going at Ja Rule who a lot of fans were sick of. Dre was a contributing factor unquestionably but as good as he is, he wouldn't have sold like that with Dogg Pound or Knoc-Turn'al. 
5-0 sold on the strength of being affiliated with dre and em. how many of y'all gave a fuck about around 1999-200? nobody. dre could produce a frog and make it go platinum.
"Summa y'all #mediocres more worried bout my goings on than u is about ya own.... But that ain't none of my business so.....I'll just #SipTeaForKermit #ifitaintaboutdamoney #2sugarspleaseFollow," - T.I.
 

Jimmy H.

Re: What will be Aftermath's legacy?
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2008, 07:02:07 PM »
5-0 sold on the strength of being affiliated with dre and em. how many of y'all gave a fuck about around 1999-200? nobody. dre could produce a frog and make it go platinum.
If it was just strength of affiliation, why is Stat Quo signed to the same Shady/Aftermath/Interscope machine and hasn't been put out for four years? Why did 50 come out before Obie? He had the whole package as far as marketing goes. Dre and Eminem were a big part in it but they weren't the only factor. 50 Cent wasn't just some talentless bum who got lucky and had the biggest fucking album in the world.