Author Topic: GOD  (Read 356 times)

Trauma-san

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Re: GOD
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2002, 05:39:26 PM »
I hear ya, and I don't want to put you on defense about your faith.  My church recognizes all faith, and specifically, believes that the muslim faith is a very respectable faith.  We consider muslim's great people that we can learn from.  

But, to answer your points :)  Point taken about the 'misinterpretation'.  But if a man is resurrected, obviously, he's a little more than your average man.

Also, Jesus said, "NO MAN cometh to the father, but by me".  It's the only way there, according to him.  Now, if he was a prophet, he would not lie.  So, if you accept him as a prophet, you accept this statement as true.  

We believe that God is a merciful god, and a muslim, or whoever, who has consistently shown love for god, and done what he believes god would have him do, will be saved in the next life, though.. basically, we believe that after you die, the 'veil' will be lifted, and you will understand all. (all of us will)... you will then be given the choice to choose good, or bad, basically... of course, you'll choose good, since you've chosen good in your life.

Peace~
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Trauma-san

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Re: GOD
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2002, 05:40:59 PM »
Quote
Lol, so I look up at the clock to see that it is now 12:36, and I've been sitting here at the cpu for the last 3 hours clicking refresh, and reading what everyone has said about the several topics I'm interested in, while my beautiful wife is 10 feet away in bed. I've since then considered my options, and I think it is time to call it an evening. Thank you to all who have dropped knowledge, and shared opinions. Good to have intelegent conversations from time to time. You all are some real mofo's. Peace.


Just remember, God's 1st commandment was to Adam and Eve!... "Go forth and replenish the earth"

LOL


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Sikotic™

Re: GOD
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2002, 06:03:47 PM »
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WAZZUPPPPP.  Honestly; It's impossible to argue that Jesus and the father do not exist seperately.  It says in the bible that Jesus said on the cross, as he died "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do".  That's not an example, that was a heartfelt prayer for mercy to his father.  

Jesus is the mediator between his father (the creator) and us... Jesus paid the debt for us to his father for our sins, and now we must pay Jesus back through our thoughts/actions/works on earth, since he will be our lawyer/judge and jury when we reach heaven.

When Jesus was baptised, In Matthew, Mark, and Luke  it mentions The dove of the holy ghost descending on him, and the father in heaven is heard to say "This is my son, with whom I am well pleased".  How can you possibly, possibly say that Jesus, the father, and the Holy Ghost are not seperate entities, when all 3 were present at Jesus's baptism, just like a proper family would be?

Matthew 10:33-36 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven

Matthew 12:31-32: "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Matthew 27:46; "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying "Eli,Eli,Lama Sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

How can any of this be a metaphor, when Jesus referred to his father as seperately clearly, even when Jesus was suffering, he begged his father to stop the pain, and said "Thy will be done" (Father, do what you will).  

So, I see your point; Jesus did, twice, mention things to the effect that "him and the father were one"... but it is abundantly clear from the surrounding text that he was saying 1 in mind, and purpose.  

Also, Jesus was not god while on earth, he simply held the power of the priesthood, and was able to heal with the power of the Holy Ghost.  After he was ressurected, THEN he had became a god, here on earth.  He spoke to the non-believers after his resurrection in matthew 28.  

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

It says NOWHERE in the bible that God had a wife, you are correct.  I (and the church) only supposes that, because he had a son, and how else are children made? I know, I know, he's god, but for god to be happy, he would not be alone.  Also, since god wants us to be like him, and he wants us to marry... he himself by default must be married.  For instance: how often do you hear Billy Graham, or whoever, talk about his wife?  Never... because some things are best left personal.  you've got me there, though, It says nothing about his wife, so it's impossible for me to prove that point.

As for the trinity, it ALSO mentions the trinity nowhere in the bible, even though Jesus is mentioned as the son of god 68 times.  

Peace, Locster!






I can see why you think the trinity are three separate entities. I still believe that your are not looking into whats actually being said. Like you said Jesus clearly stated that he and God are one so how can you argue the Lord's word?

Jesus was God when he was on earth. The Bible clearly states he was God on earth. That is why he could live a perfect life without any sin. Has any other man done that while he was on earth? No. God is perfect and so was Jesus on earth, therefore he must have been God before coming to earth, during and forever after.

And God is not lonely because he has created us. While else do we have a "relationship" with him for? You don't have to be married to not be lonely.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Trauma-san

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Re: GOD
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2002, 06:14:03 PM »
^^^ I gave you actual evidence from the bible, for why they were 3 seperate entities, you just gave me your beliefs.

At jesus's baptism, if they were 1, how did the "dove of the holy ghost" descend on him (if they were the same thing), and How did the father say, out loud, in the air, from the heavens, "Behold my son, in whom I am well pleased" ?  

And why, in gesemene (spelling?) did Jesus beg his father to remove his burdens?  

Of course I'm not saying Jesus lied.  You didn't read what I wrote.  He said "The father is in me, and I in the father".  He also said that Jesus, the father, and the holy ghost were 1... those are the only 2 times he says anything to the effect in the bible.  But there are 68 instances where he or someone else refers to him as god's ACTUAL son.  It's not figurative, it's literal.  In both instances of Jesus saying they were one, he was talking about in mind, in thought, that if God or the holy ghost were there, they would say the same exact thing.  Really, it's a minor argument, It can be easily proven (I just did, with the baptism thing) that they are 3 seperate people.  And why does Jesus continually, CONTINUALLY say "My father who art in heaven" ?  LOL, It just baffles me that people don't believe Jesus and his Father are 2 seperate people.  Of course they are, why wouldn't they be?

I won't argue with you about the 'god on earth' thing, i'll just leave you with Matthew chapter 28 again, when Jesus said he had been given all power... AFTER his resurrection.

Again, just minor inconsistencies, we all believe in god.  Me and you even believe in his son, LOL.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Sikotic™

Re: GOD
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2002, 06:38:54 PM »
Well we both take the scriptures in different manners. You think the mention of Father/Son is literal and I think it's figurative. We obviously aren't gonna change any opinions so I'll just leave it at that.

I just want to touch on why Jesus prayed God would take his burdens away in Gethsemene. It's because even though he was God he was in human flesh. He had human emotions just like you and me. How else could he be tempted by Satan?

But anyways, like you said, we worship the same God so it's all gravy. No point in arguing over somethin' so little.

Peace
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

maddskilzz9

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Re: GOD
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2002, 06:45:49 PM »
Quote
well from a muslim point of view....

see the torah, the old testament and the quran are SO SIMILIAR its not even funny

but see Jesus becomes introduced as divine in christianitys new testament, jews dont accept him at all, muslims only accept him as a prophet...


see muslims believe that Judaism was the original religion sent by God, that why we believe in Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses etc

but when Jews refuse to accept Jesus, the religion became astray

christiniaty went astray because while jews didnt accept jesus at ALL, christians took it overboard, and gave him divinity

so basically Islam is the true religion because Christianity and Judaism each at critical points wandered off....


thats why we still respect Christains and Jews and call them "People of the Book", we just believe that the confusion surrounding Jesus/Mary and the refusal to accept Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) as the last messanger, sets us apart from christianity and judaism



The torah IS the old testiment, theyr EXACTLY THE SAME, not "similar"....theyr the same shit
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Trauma-san

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Re: GOD
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2002, 06:48:13 PM »
Your of course right, he had human emotions, nothing wrong witht hem.  But my point was, who was he praying to?  If he was god, why would he pray to someone else for help?  

Peace~


(Btw, the answer, of course, is that he wasn't god, and that he was praying to his father, who isn't him, but who is in heaven.  His father's will, as we found out, was for Jesus to suffer for all man's sins, at the same time, in the garden.  He 'bled from every pore', and begged his father to help him, but if he had to do it, he would (paraphrasing).  This single scene in the bible, in my opinion, is the most important thing that ever happened in the world; Jesus allowing for all his family to be able to return to him and his father in heaven... I mean, imagine, he suffered for Hitler, he suffered for all the child molestors, he took away and was punished for all of their sins.  Wow.  I'm sure just my and your sins alone would kill me, LOL)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »