Author Topic: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama  (Read 148 times)

M Dogg™

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M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« on: October 02, 2008, 09:38:19 PM »
As someone who is a huge supporter of Barack Obama, I called it along time ago, and as someone who will vote for the man I agree with about 95% of the time, I will call out one of the 5%.

With the recent bill passed, the 700 Billion dollar bailout, I feel like that was a huge turn from the Obama that's been talking about. There are things in that bill that I agree with, that's true, but lets get to the whole root of the problem, and then we can see how to fix it.

I talked to a retired banker, of course he blamed Jimmy Carter for his bills to give low income families a chance to buy a home with FHA. I am a supporter of that, most first time home buyers have no cash, and it allows people to put some money down, plus they have a fixed rate so they know what they are paying a month. His claims are wrong. BUT, it lead to Bill Clinton doing something that we are now paying for today. In a way to get more home buyers, Bill Clinton and a Republican congress deregulated banks, and pushed sub prime mortgages. What this did was basically let people buy homes they can't afford, and then after 3-5 years, their rates raised and they were hit with a monthly mortgage payment that they could not even imagine. Now, these people were dumb, but the fault lies on Bill Clinton, who allowed this to happen, and then pushed the idea to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Clinton forced them to take mortgages from lower income people, and this caused many people to buy homes, sell them, and prices of homes sky rocketed to new heights.

This idea was not lost to the Bush administration, as since Clinton's plans happened late in his second term, the main person who benefited was George Bush. Bush, with home ownership at an all time high, declared the United States an "ownership society".

There is a saying, Republicans are evil, Democrats are dump, and when something is dump and evil it's called bipartisanship. That's what this bill was, simply because we wanted the Republicans to get on board when we should have just passed our own bill.

Obama was on the outside watching all of this, and would from time to time speak out against the deregulating of banks, and two years ago warned of the problems we would be facing today. The solution to the problem maybe simple to Ron Paul supporters, but we tried that in the 1930's, and we failed. But as you can tell by his body language, a 700 billion dollar plan is not what Obama had in mind. Obama compromised his beliefs for the re-regulations of banks, and oversight of banks so that we can assure this wouldn't happen again. The problem, Bill Clinton used great oversight, and that's what got us into this mess. Obama compromised so that in 2016, Sarah Palin could become president and fuck us over again. I hope as president Obama will do more to correct his mistakes.

Now Ron Paul fans love to take about getting rid of the Federal Reserve is the answer to all it's problems. In a case like this, the Fed does hurt the situation as we are just going to print money we don't have, give it to banks to bail them out of loans they should have never taken, and increase inflation to highs not seen since the 70's. Anything wrong with that, no. As a former socialist though, the idea isn't the strength of the dollar, but can people afford food. We don't care is milk is 2.5,. 4.99 like today, or 50.00, all we care about is can people afford it. So with the printing of money, that doesn't bother me as much. The dollar will go to shit after all is said and done, no one will get rid of the Fed, and the gold standard might have to come out just to survive, especially if McCain is elected. Well, let me get back on track. The main point is this, just because we can print money, and raise inflation, doesn't mean we should. In reality the US is 10 trillion dollars in debt, we need to pay it, the US is in no position to pay help Wall Street without hurting our dollar, and that in turn hurts our debt around the world. Look at what we did to other countries, we forced some to give up their educational systems all for the money they owe us. Turn around is a bitch, and our debt is worst than any debt that was owed to us.

Aside from that, printing money causes a false hope that we can print and buy our way out of a problem. We need action. What the government needs to do is use Freddie and Fannie (yes I know they were private companies, but they were a tool always used by the government), take in these bad loans, and set up a system that treated the loans like student loans, adjust rates so that yeah, someone could take 40-50 years to pay off, which sucks for them but that's that they got themselves into. Set these loans up like student loans, with deferments in case of being laid off or unemployment. The banks, let them die, we have the FDIC to protect people's money, but the banks themselves, take the billion dollar bonuses from the CEOs, set up a system to protect the workers for 6 months until they find a new job, and let the banks die. Most banks are merging anyways, and the free market is setting it's self. There is nothing that screams Capitalism more than a bank, and with that banks have to be the ultimate case on Capitalism. This 700 billion dollar bailout is a joke. I know Obama is doing what experts say is for the better, but honestly, it's a compromise that will put his future presidency in danger before he even gets elected.
 

El the Self Image

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Re: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 11:05:24 AM »
woah....

Man, THIS is the stuff you should be rapping about..... if you can write it, you can rap it!
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Re: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 01:41:10 PM »
You are absolutely right M Dogg. Look how the stock market has been doing since the bill was passed. It was a little above 10,000 points last week, and today the market closed at under 8,600 points. These so called "experts" aren't really experts when this country is in financial turmoil that hasn't occurred in over 70 years, and it's certainly not under the same set of circumstances.

AIG was given $20-some-billion when the bailout was passed, but then they came crawling back for another $38billion only days later and got it. Approval of handouts only leads to more handouts because companies now think they are ENTITLED to taxpayer money, even when it's their fault we are in such dire straits. I'm no economist, but I know a bad deal when I see one, and the bailout was as bad as they come. There wasn't even any deliberation. It ended up as "oh we need a bailout", then all of a sudden it happened with no other options brought to light publically.
 

Mr. O

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Re: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 06:58:00 PM »
MDOGG, you shouldn't just blame Clinton for this shit.  Yeah, he was involved in this mess, but motherfuckas like Americans are too fuckin' greedy and stupid that they need the gov't, president, or banks to come and wipe their ass.  Hell no.  EVERYONE is responsible for themselves.  They are the ones shoppin' home loans like Toys R' Us.
Blame Americans.

About bailout, I knew bailout was fuckin' stupid.  Blame the congress.  Hey, but when it comes to election day I rather pick Obama than McCain.
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Rugged Monk

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Re: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2008, 07:22:53 PM »
In a way to get more home buyers, Bill Clinton and a Republican congress deregulated banks, and pushed sub prime mortgages. What this did was basically let people buy homes they can't afford, and then after 3-5 years, their rates raised and they were hit with a monthly mortgage payment that they could not even imagine. 

The main point is this, just because we can print money, and raise inflation, doesn't mean we should.

WORD. Exactly, thats what i been saying these lastcouple of days (although in a less articulate and more abusive manner), you have de-regulated banks! You have de-regulated EVERYTHING, in the thought that any regulation is socialist and strangles business!

'No big government! Cut the red tape! Get the government off our backs rah rah rah, down with socialism! The market will regulate itself like the magical talking tea-cups and spoons in magical land...'


However, in some ways, the Fed and all this lovely printing of vast sums of 'money' and less government responsibility to regulation has allowed the US to pursue and build up vast military interests at home and all around the globe...
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 07:38:05 PM by Rugged Monk »
 

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Re: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008, 09:25:48 PM »

'No big government! Cut the red tape! Get the government off our backs rah rah rah, down with socialism! The market will regulate itself like the magical talking tea-cups and spoons in magical land...'



Lending money to stupid people that cannot pay it back is simply bad business and people that do such things should be punished, and they would be punished by a free market because they'd end up lending out money they would not get back and owning houses that aren't worth have of what they were leant out as. An unregulated, a real unregulated society (not this socialist shithole we live in now), market would put money lending morons out of business for good and newer smart money lenders would emerge. But in this corperate welfare world those smart lenders don't have to exist because we have the government to bail out every idiot fron here to as far as the eye can see.


All regulation is bullshit, because the people with the dough can cut any red tape that needs cutting while the people trying to make a buck get all wrapped up in red sticky shit.
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 09:35:01 PM »
Obama is a fraud.  You're a racist fuck if you think he's any different because he's dark complected.  Peeps are gonna be heartbroken and I'm gonna be right here laughin.

Fuck Obama
 

Rugged Monk

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Re: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2008, 05:45:29 AM »

'No big government! Cut the red tape! Get the government off our backs rah rah rah, down with socialism! The market will regulate itself like the magical talking tea-cups and spoons in magical land...'



Lending money to stupid people that cannot pay it back is simply bad business and people that do such things should be punished, and they would be punished by a free market because they'd end up lending out money they would not get back and owning houses that aren't worth have of what they were leant out as. An unregulated, a real unregulated society (not this socialist shithole we live in now), market would put money lending morons out of business for good and newer smart money lenders would emerge. But in this corperate welfare world those smart lenders don't have to exist because we have the government to bail out every idiot fron here to as far as the eye can see.


All regulation is bullshit, because the people with the dough can cut any red tape that needs cutting while the people trying to make a buck get all wrapped up in red sticky shit.


What do you think is happening now? Those banks ARE going out of business, people ARE defualting on their loans and companies are folding and that bail out bill was a panic-stricken knee jerk reaction. I think its a fantasy thinking the market will just regulate itself and it will be all gravy, sure it can 'regulate' itself, but then life is brutal, starve to death and die of treatable diseases if you aint got a dime type regulation. The only reason we have the luxury of sitting infront of PCs casually contemplating the world is because of GOVERNMENT: LAWs and REGULATION. There may be stupid regulations and too much regulation in some areas, but don't wish for no regulation at all, otherwise move your ass to Botswana and pack nothing with you if you want to really experience the 'free market', a 'free market' inevitablly becomes a market with slaves and slavers with government open to the highest bidder.




“The condition of man . . . is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.”


"No arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”


  -Thomas Hobbes, The Leviathan.









« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 08:52:07 AM by Rugged Monk »
 

M Dogg™

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Re: M Dogg's expresses dissapproval at Obama
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2008, 09:09:38 AM »

'No big government! Cut the red tape! Get the government off our backs rah rah rah, down with socialism! The market will regulate itself like the magical talking tea-cups and spoons in magical land...'



Lending money to stupid people that cannot pay it back is simply bad business and people that do such things should be punished, and they would be punished by a free market because they'd end up lending out money they would not get back and owning houses that aren't worth have of what they were leant out as. An unregulated, a real unregulated society (not this socialist shithole we live in now), market would put money lending morons out of business for good and newer smart money lenders would emerge. But in this corperate welfare world those smart lenders don't have to exist because we have the government to bail out every idiot fron here to as far as the eye can see.


All regulation is bullshit, because the people with the dough can cut any red tape that needs cutting while the people trying to make a buck get all wrapped up in red sticky shit.


What do you think is happening now? Those banks ARE going out of business, people ARE defualting on their loans and companies are folding and that bail out bill was a panic-stricken knee jerk reaction. I think its a fantasy thinking the market will just regulate itself and it will be all gravy, sure it can 'regulate' itself, but then life is brutal, starve to death and die of treatable diseases if you aint got a dime brutal. The only reason we have the luxury of sitting infront of PCs casually contemplating the world is because of GOVERNMENT: LAWs and REGULATION. There may be stupid regulations and too much regulation in some areas, but don't wish for no regulation at all, otherwise move your ass to Botswana and pack nothing with you if you want to really experience the 'free market', a 'free market' inevitablly becomes a market with slaves and slavers with government open to the highest bidder.




“The condition of man . . . is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.”


"No arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”


  -Thomas Hobbes, The Leviathan.











Well onething that happened was Clinton wanted people to loan out these subprime. It's not the whole fault of the banks. On top of that, the banks are going out of business, which was not what they thought would happen. Originally what happened was that banks were giving these bad loans, and then after a few years when housing was still cheap, banks took the homes and resold them for a nice profit. Think about it, you get 5 years of a loan, then you get the full value of the house, this was a win, win for banks. What hit the fan was now that we had faulty loans, prices skyrocketed and we people could not afford their homes. There was no one selling anymore because others were afraid of taking on these bad loans, so people were forced to stay in their loans after 5 years and finally become foreclosed. This cycle has been going on for 10 years. It's not like one day banks give loans that were bad and then they stop profitting. No, banks profitted from these loans, for 10 years they have had massive profit, and now it's all hit the fan.

Obama is a fraud.  You're a racist fuck if you think he's any different because he's dark complected.  Peeps are gonna be heartbroken and I'm gonna be right here laughin.

Fuck Obama

10 years ago Obama was a scrappy Chicago politican and 6 years ago his setting up marches again the Iraq War and 2 years ago his talking about this very problem. What's not to like of him. I disagree with his vote on this bill, but his heart is in the right place, and I think once he becomes president, he may be a Ron Paul Republican's worst nightmare, but America will see greatness. After all, look at the worst presidents, they are the considered the most Libertarian.