First Eminem single to be called " We Made You " , out on April 7th.

[dubsmith_nz]

I really wanted to see Em go out side the hip hop world for this record.

What do you mean? I hope not some rock bullshit.

Hip Hop is "some rock bullshit". I hate having to explain myself time and again to Hip Hop fans that have no idea what a producer is or does or is supposed to do but I'll do it again. I mentioned two names that I would like to see produce Em's new record entirely, and I named them because both have shown they have the ability to explore different sounds and create concise albums.

I want someone that'll get into Em's head and figure out what kind of album he wants and what he wants it to say and then guide the album so it doesn't stray from the objective. I don't want a compilation of single tracks that do not feed of each other. We can get that from a mix tape. I don't see any producers in Hip Hop doing that right now. Rza was once very good at it and so was Primo but I'm not sure if they've done anything in the last few years.

yea majority of rap albums sound like a mixtape songs by the same artist, i guess it is becasue they use so many dif producers

And because they have no real say over the music, because almost all of them can't play any of it.

Most musicians that play together over the period of recording an album begin to develop a sound and feel for the album. However they also start experimenting with styles and sounds that are not like the other songs. One of the producer's jobs is to figure out if that different sound fits the album or should changed to fit the album. Some songs may be better than most of the songs on an album but if the song doesn't fit the album it should get pushed aside.

Fire, Ties That Bind, Because The Night and Point Blank were and originally recorded for Darkness on the Edge of Town and Darkness could have fit 3 or 4 more songs on the LP but it would have taken away from the experience. Those songs either didn't fit the picture and essence of the album at all or better fit the sequel (The River).

I reckon Em's albums all have a very concise sound and feeling to them. All the albums offer a difference ambience in my opinion. Most commercial albums these days are simply compilation albums, but all aftermath albums that come out do have a direct feeling to them. That's because they use a stable of producers that create the same sound, and have the same direction.

[Shallow]

I really wanted to see Em go out side the hip hop world for this record.

What do you mean? I hope not some rock bullshit.

Hip Hop is "some rock bullshit". I hate having to explain myself time and again to Hip Hop fans that have no idea what a producer is or does or is supposed to do but I'll do it again. I mentioned two names that I would like to see produce Em's new record entirely, and I named them because both have shown they have the ability to explore different sounds and create concise albums.

I want someone that'll get into Em's head and figure out what kind of album he wants and what he wants it to say and then guide the album so it doesn't stray from the objective. I don't want a compilation of single tracks that do not feed of each other. We can get that from a mix tape. I don't see any producers in Hip Hop doing that right now. Rza was once very good at it and so was Primo but I'm not sure if they've done anything in the last few years.

yea majority of rap albums sound like a mixtape songs by the same artist, i guess it is becasue they use so many dif producers

And because they have no real say over the music, because almost all of them can't play any of it.

Most musicians that play together over the period of recording an album begin to develop a sound and feel for the album. However they also start experimenting with styles and sounds that are not like the other songs. One of the producer's jobs is to figure out if that different sound fits the album or should changed to fit the album. Some songs may be better than most of the songs on an album but if the song doesn't fit the album it should get pushed aside.

Fire, Ties That Bind, Because The Night and Point Blank were and originally recorded for Darkness on the Edge of Town and Darkness could have fit 3 or 4 more songs on the LP but it would have taken away from the experience. Those songs either didn't fit the picture and essence of the album at all or better fit the sequel (The River).

I reckon Em's albums all have a very concise sound and feeling to them. All the albums offer a difference ambience in my opinion. Most commercial albums these days are simply compilation albums, but all aftermath albums that come out do have a direct feeling to them. That's because they use a stable of producers that create the same sound, and have the same direction.

Em's albums do have an album feel for the most part. Even Encore, but Encore sucked and the old style is getting played out. He released 3 very similar albums and then a very bad album. I wanted a new producer so that maybe we could freshen thinks up a bit and make the album a little more mature. He's older now and his fart joke ways aren't funny anymore. Dr Dre has never made a mature album and I'm not sure he can.

[Meho]

That's true. I definetly expect a lot of growth from Em's and Dre's album, Em is like 36 and Dre is 44 ? I wouldn't mind 1 or 2 funny joints but that's it.

[dubsmith_nz]

Dre helped make Kingdom Come a mature album, and that got hated on, cos people didn't get it, or didn't want to hear it. I was amped when I heard Em and Premier had got together, but who knows if we'll ever hear that track. I hope both artists have matured, but the thing with Encore was, that Em's rhyme patterns were next level, as a rapper technically he was in the best form ever, it's just the subject matter was bullshit. Hopefully on Relapse we can see him find a balance

[Shallow]

Dre helped make Kingdom Come a mature album, and that got hated on, cos people didn't get it, or didn't want to hear it. I was amped when I heard Em and Premier had got together, but who knows if we'll ever hear that track. I hope both artists have matured, but the thing with Encore was, that Em's rhyme patterns were next level, as a rapper technically he was in the best form ever, it's just the subject matter was bullshit. Hopefully on Relapse we can see him find a balance

He was far too structurd on Encore with his rhyme patterns. He's at his best when he's free flowing, not when he's changing the words and the rhymes to fit the melody.


Kingdom Come? The crappy Jay Z album, or the crappy King T album?

[dubsmith_nz]

Dre helped make Kingdom Come a mature album, and that got hated on, cos people didn't get it, or didn't want to hear it. I was amped when I heard Em and Premier had got together, but who knows if we'll ever hear that track. I hope both artists have matured, but the thing with Encore was, that Em's rhyme patterns were next level, as a rapper technically he was in the best form ever, it's just the subject matter was bullshit. Hopefully on Relapse we can see him find a balance

He was far too structurd on Encore with his rhyme patterns. He's at his best when he's free flowing, not when he's changing the words and the rhymes to fit the melody.


Kingdom Come? The crappy Jay Z album, or the crappy King T album?

Crappy Jay Z album, that was Jay tryna be mature, 30s The New 20, Beach Chair etc

[Shallow]

Dre helped make Kingdom Come a mature album, and that got hated on, cos people didn't get it, or didn't want to hear it. I was amped when I heard Em and Premier had got together, but who knows if we'll ever hear that track. I hope both artists have matured, but the thing with Encore was, that Em's rhyme patterns were next level, as a rapper technically he was in the best form ever, it's just the subject matter was bullshit. Hopefully on Relapse we can see him find a balance

He was far too structurd on Encore with his rhyme patterns. He's at his best when he's free flowing, not when he's changing the words and the rhymes to fit the melody.


Kingdom Come? The crappy Jay Z album, or the crappy King T album?

Crappy Jay Z album, that was Jay tryna be mature, 30s The New 20, Beach Chair etc

Ok, for a second I thought you were calling Thy Kingdom Come an attempt at maturity. That would have been silly. What Jay's Kingdom Come was was mostly Jay's doing though. I don't see him being the type of guy that would let a producer tell him what he's saying stupid, whether Dre would have or not.

The point is the same, Dre has never produced a good mature album and in a time when Em should be coming back with some maturity he should seek outside help from people that have made good albums like that. This album probably won't be the hit he thinks it's going to be anyway so he may very well try and make it the hit people don't realize until years after. Bob Dylan once compared a young Em to a young Dylan. I think it's time for Em to pour some authentic blood on his tracks.

[dubsmith_nz]

Wow thats crazy Dylan comparing Em to himself. I agree that they need to get something more Mature going, but that's been the resounding echo of what Detox is supposed to be. hopefully we get more than a glimpse of that direction on Em's LP. Although with a title like "Relapse" it sounds more like he's back to his old Slim Shady ways, which I'm not against lol...

"Like Toy Soldiers" on encore was sick though, and very grown up and serious for Em...

[white Boy]

I really wanted to see Em go out side the hip hop world for this record.

What do you mean? I hope not some rock bullshit.

Hip Hop is "some rock bullshit". I hate having to explain myself time and again to Hip Hop fans that have no idea what a producer is or does or is supposed to do but I'll do it again. I mentioned two names that I would like to see produce Em's new record entirely, and I named them because both have shown they have the ability to explore different sounds and create concise albums.

I want someone that'll get into Em's head and figure out what kind of album he wants and what he wants it to say and then guide the album so it doesn't stray from the objective. I don't want a compilation of single tracks that do not feed of each other. We can get that from a mix tape. I don't see any producers in Hip Hop doing that right now. Rza was once very good at it and so was Primo but I'm not sure if they've done anything in the last few years.

yea majority of rap albums sound like a mixtape songs by the same artist, i guess it is becasue they use so many dif producers

And because they have no real say over the music, because almost all of them can't play any of it.

Most musicians that play together over the period of recording an album begin to develop a sound and feel for the album. However they also start experimenting with styles and sounds that are not like the other songs. One of the producer's jobs is to figure out if that different sound fits the album or should changed to fit the album. Some songs may be better than most of the songs on an album but if the song doesn't fit the album it should get pushed aside.

Fire, Ties That Bind, Because The Night and Point Blank were and originally recorded for Darkness on the Edge of Town and Darkness could have fit 3 or 4 more songs on the LP but it would have taken away from the experience. Those songs either didn't fit the picture and essence of the album at all or better fit the sequel (The River).

ironically enough i just listened to Point Blank for the first time in the car it came on random, it def fits on the river a lot more, theres something about that song though, i cant put my finger on it, but its missing something

 if we doing dylan and em comparisons , encore was like self portrait?, (which i actually enjoy), that version of quinn is rediculous, and i just downloaded a bootleg of that isle of wight cant wait to listen to it

[Shallow]

I really wanted to see Em go out side the hip hop world for this record.

What do you mean? I hope not some rock bullshit.

Hip Hop is "some rock bullshit". I hate having to explain myself time and again to Hip Hop fans that have no idea what a producer is or does or is supposed to do but I'll do it again. I mentioned two names that I would like to see produce Em's new record entirely, and I named them because both have shown they have the ability to explore different sounds and create concise albums.

I want someone that'll get into Em's head and figure out what kind of album he wants and what he wants it to say and then guide the album so it doesn't stray from the objective. I don't want a compilation of single tracks that do not feed of each other. We can get that from a mix tape. I don't see any producers in Hip Hop doing that right now. Rza was once very good at it and so was Primo but I'm not sure if they've done anything in the last few years.

yea majority of rap albums sound like a mixtape songs by the same artist, i guess it is becasue they use so many dif producers

And because they have no real say over the music, because almost all of them can't play any of it.

Most musicians that play together over the period of recording an album begin to develop a sound and feel for the album. However they also start experimenting with styles and sounds that are not like the other songs. One of the producer's jobs is to figure out if that different sound fits the album or should changed to fit the album. Some songs may be better than most of the songs on an album but if the song doesn't fit the album it should get pushed aside.

Fire, Ties That Bind, Because The Night and Point Blank were and originally recorded for Darkness on the Edge of Town and Darkness could have fit 3 or 4 more songs on the LP but it would have taken away from the experience. Those songs either didn't fit the picture and essence of the album at all or better fit the sequel (The River).

ironically enough i just listened to Point Blank for the first time in the car it came on random, it def fits on the river a lot more, theres something about that song though, i cant put my finger on it, but its missing something

 if we doing dylan and em comparisons , encore was like self portrait?, (which i actually enjoy), that version of quinn is rediculous, and i just downloaded a bootleg of that isle of wight cant wait to listen to it

Think so? I think it's a great opener for the second disc, and a great middle of the record song, and it has one of my favorite verses.


You grew up where young girls they grow up fast
You took what you were handed and left behind what was asked
but what they asked baby wasn't right
you didn't have to live that life,
I was gonna be your Romeo you were gonna be my Juliet
These days you don't wait on Romeo's
you wait on that welfare check
and on all the pretty things that you can't ever have
and on all the promises


Maybe you'll like the live version better from the River tour. It's got a cool intro

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W2EA4YEA


The studio version was one of the first Bruce songs I really liked so it'll always be a favorite.

[white Boy]

i do like this version better

[Shallow]

Wow thats crazy Dylan comparing Em to himself. I agree that they need to get something more Mature going, but that's been the resounding echo of what Detox is supposed to be. hopefully we get more than a glimpse of that direction on Em's LP. Although with a title like "Relapse" it sounds more like he's back to his old Slim Shady ways, which I'm not against lol...

"Like Toy Soldiers" on encore was sick though, and very grown up and serious for Em...

Now that I think about it Dre may have to go outside Hip Hop for a ghost writer to help with the lyrics. Almost all of the great hip hop lyrical songs are rooted in youth, not maturity. I haven't really heard too much rap with lyrics I thought were very mature. A bunch of witty similes won't cut it. It's not just about making the subject matter more mature. It's about the writing style. Prose. And it should be a little more raw.

To reference Springsteen again, I know I do it too much but it's just the artist I know the most about, he matured lyrically quite a bit over the course of Born To Run, Darkness and River and the lyrical style showed that. The romantic poetry faded away and the more rugged lines slowly crept in.

We go from

They scream your name at night in the street
Your graduation gown lies in rags at their feet
And in the lonely cool before dawn
You hear their engines roaring on
But when you get to the porch they're gone
On the wind, so Mary climb in
It's a town full of losers
And I'm pulling out of here to win.

and

Beyond the Palace hemi-powered drones scream down the boulevard
The girls comb their hair in rearview mirrors
And the boys try to look so hard
The amusement park rises bold and stark
Kids are huddled on the beach in a mist
I wanna die with you Wendy on the streets tonight
In an everlasting kiss


to

Workin' in the fields
till you get your back burned
Workin' 'neath the wheel
till you get your facts learned
Baby I got my facts
learned real good right now
You better get it straight darling
Poor man wanna be rich,
rich man wanna be king
And a king ain't satisfied
till he rules everything

and


In the Bible Cain slew Abel
and East of Eden he was cast
You're born into this life paying
for the sins of somebody else's past
Daddy worked his whole life for nothing but the pain
Now he walks these empty rooms looking for something to blame
You inherit the sins, you inherit the flames
Adam raised a Cain


to finally


Then I got Mary pregnant
and man that was all she wrote
And for my nineteenth birthday I got a union card and a wedding coat
We went down to the courthouse
and the judge put it all to rest
No wedding day smiles no walk down the aisle
No flowers no wedding dress

and

Well Papa go to bed now it's getting late
Nothing we can say is gonna change anything now
I'll be leaving in the morning from St. Mary's Gate
We wouldn't change this thing even if we could somehow
Cause the darkness of this house has got the best of us
There's a darkness in this town that's got us too
But they can't touch me now
And you can't touch me now
They ain't gonna do to me
What I watched them do to you


You'll notice how each set of lyrics get older. We go from wide eyed teens that think they know more than they do and can't wait to see the world. To post-adolescents beginning to see the world for what it really is and become angry. To adults forced to settle in and accept the rut their lives will become whether they admit it or not. You see the poetry strong in the beginning, full of romance. It turns to a simpler more raw, realistic and resentful style as it goes from album to album. As the wording becomes simpler the meanings become more complex.

[LyRiCaL_G]

Whats a mature album for eminem meant to sound like though?

As for rhyme structure and all, encore was still weak, it has no rhymes which stick in your head and he was flowing to flow, ryhming to flow rather than say something. Encore is truly one of those major garbage albums, no matter how many times you hear it. When a track like toy soldiers gets love from eminem fans you know u have a weak album because that shit was so rigid it was boring.

In terms of maturity, eminems most mature sound has been on eminem show imo..or atleast most complete however i think shallow made the point that most hiphop cats best work comes during youth, when they have the hunger and desire to speak about stuff without the money hitting them yet. I think we saw eminem at his finest in terms of all round performance on mmlp. Dre laced him better than anyone could at the time, and eminem spit hard on them AND they made great tracks, which people often forget about, its music in the end and its got to sound good with the topic being right.

Who could eminem work with outside of hiphop that would give him GREAT beats and be able to get great stuff out of him in your opinion that would be better than dre who is 3 outta 4 times proven to have been the right guy for guidance and executive producing an eminem album?

I know hiphop super producers are versatile enough and there sound 'cinematic/big' enough to produce for alot of cats outside of hiphop such as the neptunes, rza, timbaland, blaze...dre is actually less limited in that respect but he is a better producer imo than all the previous mentioned imo.

So going outside the box aint always perfect or guarenteed to work. If anything eminem needs to go and find what made him big in the first place. HIPHOP music. Dre doing the beats and eminem just spitting without it being forced and to have something to say i would have no problem with at all. The eminem on encore had nothing to say, which was worrying considering his subject matter was so similar on his previous three which probably means his not very versatile, which he is not. Also his form on the mic ever since has been a joke too pretty much, his shit aint clear and his flow which was once amazing, does not even stand out no more. When dre sounds the best on crack a bottle, you have to worry even if it aint his lyrics he is spitting lol.

I think there could be arguements for both really and both could make some sense. Eminem reaching outside of hiphop would be interesting while not guarenteed to work or even be a mature album but if it does work he would get given great props and people would be more open to giving a guy who looks like eminem props for going outside the box than nas.

As for going back abit and then moving forward, i can see that too, dre spending some time with eminem again instead of just leaving him beats is a good idea because nobody really brings the best out of a hiphop cat like dre. But then you could also fall back into eminem trying to create past moments of magic and he'll never be able to top the stuff he already has done if he tries to be that guy again imo unless he and dre really find some form. So you know, either way, its risk and first and foremost eminem needs to remember how to spit easy again and make some nice joints without it sounding like he is screaming on the mic.

By the way, i read a comment about dre being 44 and eminem 36 so the music should be more mature and i agree, but what exactly is mature like i said before for these cats? Dre is a gangsta rapper...as far as 'mature' music comes, chronic 2001 is as mature as you'll hear gangsta music going imo from dre, yes you have titles so songs like fuck you but if you go past that and listen to songs like big egos, forgot about dre, message, watcher, its all pretty mature stuff for a rapper. So dre CAN do it. And in terms of beats, dre beats are always very very mature/professional in comparison to most, even the mixing is next level. However can he make a complete mature album? I agree with shallow, im not convinced. He failed to make an album with rakim which pretty much sums that up.

Again eminem, what made him big? Being white and being able to rap was his gimmick. He then has the shady character and the one of the best producers in the business bringing the best out of the 'shock eminem' . So again, as he grows as an artist, maturity don't exactly stand out to make him better. Its hard to see it happening imo. We'll just get another album like dres previous ones, which is kool if it comes out great but if it does not, poeple will hate on it again tryna recreate past moments while failing and not maturing...which like dre, i dont think eminem is capable of being completely.

Can eminem be mature? Yes...can Dre? Yes....can either be mature on a whole album and STILL make the music good? Which is the main point? NO imo.

And thats the part that people forget. If 'grow up' by bishop 'crack a bottle' is grown up club shit, then fuck maturity because some poeople have it twisted that aslong as the subject matter is less generic/or more grown up/serious, its great but its about it being packaged right as a product and if it dont sound great as music, people will throw that shit away and an attempt at maturity is failed. So the trick and the difficult part imo is getting it to be sounding more grown up in terms of lyricism but it still being able to knock like hiphop should and sound great.

Id love to see an album like that off someone, but its not easily done imo.

pz!

[dubsmith_nz]

Good post bro. I tihnk thats the problem with the Jay album, the content was alot more mature, but the shit just didn't knock or sound that good. Hip Hop as an art form is a youth driven culture, so any major label release will struggle to make an impact or make a good sounding 'mature' album. Aslong as they're not talking about shit they aint doing, and it sounds good, then I'm happy...

[Shallow]

Whats a mature album for eminem meant to sound like though?

As for rhyme structure and all, encore was still weak, it has no rhymes which stick in your head and he was flowing to flow, ryhming to flow rather than say something. Encore is truly one of those major garbage albums, no matter how many times you hear it. When a track like toy soldiers gets love from eminem fans you know u have a weak album because that shit was so rigid it was boring.

In terms of maturity, eminems most mature sound has been on eminem show imo..or atleast most complete however i think shallow made the point that most hiphop cats best work comes during youth, when they have the hunger and desire to speak about stuff without the money hitting them yet. I think we saw eminem at his finest in terms of all round performance on mmlp. Dre laced him better than anyone could at the time, and eminem spit hard on them AND they made great tracks, which people often forget about, its music in the end and its got to sound good with the topic being right.

Who could eminem work with outside of hiphop that would give him GREAT beats and be able to get great stuff out of him in your opinion that would be better than dre who is 3 outta 4 times proven to have been the right guy for guidance and executive producing an eminem album?

I know hiphop super producers are versatile enough and there sound 'cinematic/big' enough to produce for alot of cats outside of hiphop such as the neptunes, rza, timbaland, blaze...dre is actually less limited in that respect but he is a better producer imo than all the previous mentioned imo.

So going outside the box aint always perfect or guarenteed to work. If anything eminem needs to go and find what made him big in the first place. HIPHOP music. Dre doing the beats and eminem just spitting without it being forced and to have something to say i would have no problem with at all. The eminem on encore had nothing to say, which was worrying considering his subject matter was so similar on his previous three which probably means his not very versatile, which he is not. Also his form on the mic ever since has been a joke too pretty much, his shit aint clear and his flow which was once amazing, does not even stand out no more. When dre sounds the best on crack a bottle, you have to worry even if it aint his lyrics he is spitting lol.

I think there could be arguements for both really and both could make some sense. Eminem reaching outside of hiphop would be interesting while not guarenteed to work or even be a mature album but if it does work he would get given great props and people would be more open to giving a guy who looks like eminem props for going outside the box than nas.

As for going back abit and then moving forward, i can see that too, dre spending some time with eminem again instead of just leaving him beats is a good idea because nobody really brings the best out of a hiphop cat like dre. But then you could also fall back into eminem trying to create past moments of magic and he'll never be able to top the stuff he already has done if he tries to be that guy again imo unless he and dre really find some form. So you know, either way, its risk and first and foremost eminem needs to remember how to spit easy again and make some nice joints without it sounding like he is screaming on the mic.

By the way, i read a comment about dre being 44 and eminem 36 so the music should be more mature and i agree, but what exactly is mature like i said before for these cats? Dre is a gangsta rapper...as far as 'mature' music comes, chronic 2001 is as mature as you'll hear gangsta music going imo from dre, yes you have titles so songs like fuck you but if you go past that and listen to songs like big egos, forgot about dre, message, watcher, its all pretty mature stuff for a rapper. So dre CAN do it. And in terms of beats, dre beats are always very very mature/professional in comparison to most, even the mixing is next level. However can he make a complete mature album? I agree with shallow, im not convinced. He failed to make an album with rakim which pretty much sums that up.

Again eminem, what made him big? Being white and being able to rap was his gimmick. He then has the shady character and the one of the best producers in the business bringing the best out of the 'shock eminem' . So again, as he grows as an artist, maturity don't exactly stand out to make him better. Its hard to see it happening imo. We'll just get another album like dres previous ones, which is kool if it comes out great but if it does not, poeple will hate on it again tryna recreate past moments while failing and not maturing...which like dre, i dont think eminem is capable of being completely.

Can eminem be mature? Yes...can Dre? Yes....can either be mature on a whole album and STILL make the music good? Which is the main point? NO imo.

And thats the part that people forget. If 'grow up' by bishop 'crack a bottle' is grown up club shit, then fuck maturity because some poeople have it twisted that aslong as the subject matter is less generic/or more grown up/serious, its great but its about it being packaged right as a product and if it dont sound great as music, people will throw that shit away and an attempt at maturity is failed. So the trick and the difficult part imo is getting it to be sounding more grown up in terms of lyricism but it still being able to knock like hiphop should and sound great.

Id love to see an album like that off someone, but its not easily done imo.

pz!

Nice post. +1


You asked me Who could eminem work with outside of hiphop that would give him GREAT beats and be able to get great stuff out of him in your opinion that would be better than dre who is 3 outta 4 times proven to have been the right guy for guidance and executive producing an eminem album?

Who outside of Hip Hop do I think could do it? Here's a short list of names;

Axl Rose
Mutt Lange
Daniel Lanois
Jack White
Brendan O'Brien
Bruce Springsteen
Steven Van Zandt (though he'd never do it)
Bob Rock
Butch Vig


Everyone of of these guys are accomplished musicians and composers as well as producers and could easily fiddle with a piano to come up with great loops, and then build on those loops by arranging around them and figuring out what instruments the loop should be played by.

I could find more if I looked through my record collection more carefully. Rick Rubin too but I wasn't sure if he really counts as outside of hip hop. Same with the Dust Brothers. I already mentioned Premier and Rza but I wouldn't want them to focus too much with in the confines of rap. When you go outside your element as an artist to find a producer you begin to learn from their influences and ideas and it can have profound effect.

on a side note; I always thought this song could have been a hit if recorded by Em on Encore since it's very structured)