Author Topic: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?  (Read 476 times)

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2009, 11:42:48 AM »
I didn't say capitalism doesn't exist as an idea, I said it doesn't exist in reality due to the way our systems function. You may call it a thief. But theives are marginal, while this is the core of the system.

Secondly, the question that was posed to you was indeed a question of principle. And I don't see how one can both support government intervention and be against it at the same time.

As for government being that which makes big business dangerous, I don't think there's evidence for that. As I said earlier- and also bothered to refer you to the relevant scholarship- the law was transformed to make the businesses more powerful and more indifferent to public concerns.By law, maximizing profit was to be the chief concern for big business, while ,to a large extent, it was prohibited from considering human consequences. I also gave a reference to a study dealing with business exerting pressure on government. Now in such conditions,  where else do you go to mitigate the harm of publicly unaccountable entities, other than to the government, which is at least accountable to some extent.
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Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2009, 12:15:09 PM »
I didn't say capitalism doesn't exist as an idea, I said it doesn't exist in reality due to the way our systems function. You may call it a thief. But theives are marginal, while this is the core of the system.


Then it's a BIG thief.  But it's still a thief no matter the size of it.  Which is the whole premise of libertarian politics, which is to make the thief as small as possible.  Whereas, you democratic socialist politics seek to turn the thief into a "good thief" like Barack Obama.  I think Barack Obama is a good guy.  He's a "good thief".  But still a thief.


Secondly, the question that was posed to you was indeed a question of principle. And I don't see how one can both support government intervention and be against it at the same time.


LOL.. I don't either, so I guess it's a good thing I don't support government intervention ;)... for the thousandth time.  All I said was that I can understand why businesses would want to get the government on their side, how you understood that statement to mean that I supported corporatism (government intervention in business) I will never know.


As I said earlier- and also bothered to refer you to the relevant scholarship-


Thanks, let me also offer you some links and books for you to read as well.. www.harrybrowne.org

Why Government Doesn't Work-  by Harry Browne
How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World-  by Harry Browne
How You Can Profit From The Coming Devaluation-  by Harry Browne

...Now I've provided you with relevant scholarship, when you read that I will read some of yours


 maximizing profit was to be the chief concern for big business,


Only in your Noam Chomsky utopia that will never exist, is the chief concern of big business not to make money... over here in the real world everything seeks to profit by it's very nature.  Just as you try to improve your life a business seeks to improve it's business.   


 also gave a reference to a study dealing with business exerting pressure on government. Now in such conditions,  where else do you go to mitigate the harm of publicly unaccountable entities, other than to the government, which is at least accountable to some extent.


Any business is automatically accountable to it's customers and employees.  Who could quit or not purchase their products if they chose to.  So you don't need government to force business to be accountable.  And even if you did try to do that it would look something like what Obama has done with GM (BEST CASE SCENARIO) and worst case scenario it would be Bush and Halliburton; either way it won't work.

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"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2009, 12:36:04 PM »
I kinda feel like we're talking in circles now.

I didn't mention the literature to impress you, I did it in order to document the judicial activism that took place, which decreased the accountability of big business to the public.I also wanted to document the intention of big business to dominate government.

You also said we shouldn't blame big business for wanting government intervention, while claiming to be against government intervention.

Finally, big business is accountable to its shareholders, not to its employees-whose salaries often need to be kept at a minimum for reasons of profit(Remember what happent to Ford early in the 20th century-Dodge vs. Ford-  when he wanted to give his employees greater salaries- the shareholders sued him and won on grounds that business should not engage in altruistic deeds unless it is for more profit). It is also not accountable to it's consumers unless we're talking about business-to-business. Human consumers, as opposed to other corporations, can be, and are, routinely deceived through what you regard as legitimate methods like propaganda.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 12:38:49 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2009, 12:48:08 PM »
I kinda feel like we're talking in circles now.


And who's fault is that?


You also said we shouldn't blame big business for wanting government intervention, while claiming to be against government intervention.



Okay.  Why is this sooooooo hard for you to understand.  Big business has an obvious incentive to want government on their side... THEY WILL MAKE MORE MONEY.   That is fucking obvious dude.  In fact, in general, we as human beings want people to be on our side.  So what is so confusing to you?   

Shitt... I want government on my side.  Even you want government on your side.   Because if I had government on my side then I could tell them to go away and they would do it.  And if you had government on your side you could tell them to make Noam Chomsky King of the World and they would do it.  Which by the way, if Noam Chomsky was made king, I could see it now... you saying... "Well, he was really good, and then when he got power he kind of changed".   

So can we drop that argument now?  This doesn't mean that I am for government to say that in general people want government to be on their side.



Finally, big business is accountable to its shareholders, not to its employees-whose salaries often need to be kept at a minimum for reasons of profit(Remember what happent to Ford early in the 20th century-Dodge vs. Ford-  when he wanted to give his employees greater salaries- the shareholders sued him and won on grounds that business should not engage in altruistic deeds unless it is for more profit). It is also not accountable to it's consumers unless we're talking about business-to-business. Human consumers, as opposed to other corporations, can be, and are, routinely deceived through what you regard as legitimate methods like propaganda.


So now business isn't accountable to it's consumers?   Then if that's the case why doesn't Wall-Mart charge 1 million dollars for each one of it's products? 
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

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I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2009, 01:13:14 PM »
So you don't wanna talk about institutionalized deception of the public, cause that doesn't go very well with accountability to consumers. Let's discuss Wal Mart instead. This is a moving target debate.

And when you're against government intervention, you don't come up with alibis to justify it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 01:16:51 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2009, 04:15:08 AM »

Shitt... I want government on my side.  Even you want government on your side.   Because if I had government on my side then I could tell them to go away and they would do it.  And if you had government on your side you could tell them to make Noam Chomsky King of the World


By this logic i could imply that you want Harry Browne to be King of the World. Wtf, man, is this a serious way to discuss things, stop catching feelings...
"I grew up on the chill-side, the no-big-deal-side, staying alive was no problem"
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Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2009, 05:10:52 PM »

Shitt... I want government on my side.  Even you want government on your side.   Because if I had government on my side then I could tell them to go away and they would do it.  And if you had government on your side you could tell them to make Noam Chomsky King of the World


By this logic i could imply that you want Harry Browne to be King of the World. Wtf, man, is this a serious way to discuss things, stop catching feelings...

Sure, why not have Harry Browne be king of the world (if he were alive).  The principal is still the same, that everyone would like to have government on their side.
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

J Bananas

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2009, 05:49:28 PM »
bri-guy you are trying way too hard and missing the obvious truths, like you always do.

Simple.

Try to save little guy's jobs by making the bigger guys act right.

There's nothing sinister about this, as I'm sure you'd like to believe. People (brian) who see plots and schemes here are acting laughable and I suspect are closet GOP supporters.

Put your personal feelings for iGeezy aside and just listen to him. He is being rational, and already has a girlfriend, he doesn't need you all over his nuts.
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2009, 06:00:10 PM »
bri-guy you are trying way too hard and missing the obvious truths, like you always do.


Damn your such a fag



Try to save little guy's jobs by making the bigger guys act right.


If you want to save the little guys job then you need to stop regulating the fuck out of the industry, so that the industry can thrive and not be burdened by bureaucratic bullshit.  Then they will be in a better position to provide for their employees.  You can't force them to give more to their employees.  If that was the case, then the government could just make a law that every employer had to pay their employee's 1 million dollars, and allow for time off whenever the employee wants it.




Put your personal feelings for iGeezy aside and just listen to him. He is being rational, and already has a girlfriend, he doesn't need you all over his nuts.

Damn you guys are stupid.  Just because I disagree with IGeezy that means I hate him?  No two people are alike, so it's impossible for people to agree on everything... that doesn't mean we all hate each other.   I like IGeezy and I like Z.  They are two of my favorites at the forum.  (Although I do hate you, and think your a worthless piece of shit, and I mean that)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 06:01:42 PM by Infinite African AND American West Coastin »
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

J Bananas

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2009, 06:04:22 PM »
Unfortunately the feeling of hatred is not mutual and I just enjoy bringing out your latent fundamentalist attitude sometimes...Hey bri guy, where's your child at?
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2009, 06:17:18 PM »
Unfortunately the feeling of hatred is not mutual and I just enjoy bringing out your latent fundamentalist attitude sometimes...Hey bri guy, where's your child at?

My son is fine.  For me, being a father doesn't mean I follow my son around all day and night and forget completely about myself.  Maybe one day when you have kids you can raise them however you want.  He's my son, and so I will be the kind of father that I want to be.   

I don't view fatherhood the same way as most people do, obviously.  Look around the world and ask yourself this question.  How many of these kids, if they were to see their fathers out in public, and had no idea it was their father, how many would choose to be friends with that person and be close with that person.  I think that's a serious question. 
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

J Bananas

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2009, 06:26:49 PM »
Sounds more like a poor rationalization for a lack of support and parenting. You're lucky, you probably have a lot of other people to carry your slack.

If you ever get the chance to watch Boyz N The Hood, Larry Fishburne has a great speech about fatherhood and the correlation between crime and crumbling community with the lack of active fathers.

I think I have it on VHS if you want to borrow it.

Go be a father, you don't have to be their best friend, just provide structure so they have the sense of self you never gained.
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2009, 06:55:55 PM »
Sounds more like a poor rationalization for a lack of support and parenting. You're lucky, you probably have a lot of other people to carry your slack.

If you ever get the chance to watch Boyz N The Hood, Larry Fishburne has a great speech about fatherhood and the correlation between crime and crumbling community with the lack of active fathers.

I think I have it on VHS if you want to borrow it.

Go be a father, you don't have to be their best friend, just provide structure so they have the sense of self you never gained.

Damn your stupid....

I wasn't saying that I didn't want to be my friends best friend.  Because actually I do.  What I was doing was making a point that if society supposedly knew so much about fatherhood, then how come most kids would not choose their parents as friends if they were to meet them in public (without knowing it was their parents).

My point was actually that conventional wisdom on parenthood is very flawed, so you thinking I'm a bad father means absolutely nothing to me.  Because conventional wisdom is the ruin of souls.

*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

J Bananas

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Re: So anybody else find it shocking that Obama basically took over GM?
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2009, 07:31:44 PM »
muaha, briguy you're so far gone it's not worth talking to you. I hope your kid grows up happy and self actualized, despite your terribly misguided outlook on life affecting his upbringing.

btw: "You're stupid.", "You're", I love seeing grammar mistakes accompanied by insults at one's intelligence.