Author Topic: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates  (Read 444 times)

Elano

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Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« on: April 16, 2009, 11:10:56 AM »
A little-known congressional power could help the federal government keep the Somali pirates in check — and possibly do it for a discount price.

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) and a growing number of national security experts are calling on Congress to consider using letters of marque and reprisal, a power written into the Constitution that allows the United States to hire private citizens to keep international waters safe.

Used heavily during the Revolution and the War of 1812, letters of marque serve as official warrants from the government, allowing privateers to seize or destroy enemies, their loot and their vessels in exchange for bounty money.

The letters also require would-be thrill seekers to post a bond promising to abide by international rules of war.

In a YouTube video earlier this week, Paul suggested lawmakers consider issuing letters, which could relieve American naval ships from being the nation’s primary pirate responders — a free-market solution to make the high seas safer for cargo ships.

“I think if every potential pirate knew this would be the case, they would have second thoughts because they could probably be blown out of the water rather easily if those were the conditions,” Paul said.

Theoretically, hiring bounty hunters would also be a cheaper option.

National security experts estimate that this week’s ship captain rescue by Navy SEALs cost tens of millions, although a Navy spokesman says the military cannot confirm the exact cost of the mission.

Instead, privateers would be incentivized to patrol the ocean looking for key targets — and money would be paid only to the contractor who completed the job.

“If we have 100 American wanna-be Rambos patrolling the seas, it’s probably a good way of getting the job done,” said Competitive Enterprise Institute senior fellow and security expert Eli Lehrer. “Right now we have a Navy designed mostly to fight other navies. The weapons we have are all excellent, but they may not be the best ones to fight these kinds of pirates. The only cost under letters of marque would be some sort of bounty for the pirates.”

According to Senate historians, Congress hasn’t issued a letter of marquee since the War of 1812, but the Confederate States of America issued them during the Civil War to deliver supplies behind enemy lines. There are also some indications that a letter was granted to a flying band of armed civilians during World War II to operate the Resolute, a Goodyear Blimp used to patrol the ocean for enemy submarines, but the issuance isn’t apparent in the Congressional Record.

If Congress were to revisit the antiquated process, a serious makeover would be required.

In the past, privateers were allowed to keep the ship and treasure they captured in an enemy encounter.

“That isn’t a viable way of funding in today’s world,” said Lehrer. “These pirates don’t really have treasure chests, and their money is tied up in Swiss Bank accounts. Congress would probably have to attach sizable bounties to people.”

Bounties are not a new idea — there is still a $25 million bounty on Osama bin Laden, and millions have been awarded by the government for other enemy captures.

The U.S. State Department earlier this month put a $5 million bounty on the head of the top Pakistani Taliban leader, and even local police departments use rewards to solve cold cases.

University of Oregon economics professor Bill Harbaugh argues the setup could potentially work better than some of the United States’ relationships with modern-day security contractors.

“Obviously, this is somewhat like the contract the government had with Blackwater, except we forgot the bond part of the contract, he said. “If Congress had used this contract from 1776, it would have been more sophisticated than the one they issued with Blackwater.”

Harbaugh’s fifth great-grandfather, Silas Talbot, worked as an early privateer for the United States in 1780 after serving in the Revolutionary War. His letter of marque shows he set out with 12 carriage guns and a crew of 50 men to attack and seize cargo ships coming from Great Britain on the high seas.

Could it really work again?

“It may work in the sense that if you give people incentives to fight piracy, you’ll see more action taken against it,” said Andrew Grotto, a senior national security analyst with the Center for American Progress. “The ocean is huge and, practically speaking, there’s no way the Navy can prevent piracy; it’s too big. But just given the experience in Iraq with private contractors, that effort showcases the difficulties dealing with folks who aren’t answerable to anyone but shareholders.”

But Paul has already thought through a number of these updates.

Days after Sept. 11, Paul introduced legislation allowing President Bush to allow private citizens to go after Osama bin Laden and other identified terrorists and put a bounty price on the heads of targets responsible for the New York attacks. Contractors would also be required to post a play-by-the-rules bond and turn over any terrorists — and their seized property —to U.S. authorities.

“The Constitution gives Congress the power to issue letters of marque and reprisal when a precise declaration of war is impossible due to the vagueness of the enemy,” Paul wrote in a press release. “Once letters of marque and reprisal are issued, every terrorist is essentially a marked man.”

But national security experts and legal analysts warn that applying a colonial-era policy to a modern-day problem could be wrought with legal pitfalls that the Founding Fathers never encountered.

If bounty hunters chase pirates into territorial coastal waters or on to the shore of another country, the problem would fall under the jurisdiction of that country. And any plundering activity that takes place in coastal waters is no longer considered piracy, according to College of William and Mary national security law professor Linda Malone.

Not to mention that there’s also no clear indication where and how the captured pirates should be prosecuted.

“You have to find a stable court system nearby to have them tried for these offenses, but that can be quite complicated,” Malone said. “The fact that the pirates are from Somalia doesn’t make them state actors. They are doing this for private gain.”

And how to determine exactly who is a pirate — and what constitutes pirate activity — could get fuzzy.

“What happens when a ship flying under Congress accidentally takes out an aid ship bound for Somalia?” Grotto said. “At what time does an act seem pirate-like enough to cross the line? Do we really want these snap judgments being made on the fly in waters thousands of miles away from Washington? This is not Johnny Depp we’re dealing with.”

 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 12:05:22 AM »
Thats a stupid idea.


In Iraq we had Blackwater among others, now Ron Paul in all his small-government free-market genius wants to replicate that in Somalia.

 

Despite all the well-founded criticism, US forces are waaaaay more accountable for their actions than private contractors.





 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 12:12:05 AM »
And the lizard searching wing of the Republican party is dissing Obama for wanting a civilian national security force. LOL Then they suggest the same thing. Of course Obama is talking things like Peace Corps and AmeriCorps but still, the lizard conservatives thought he was talking about a citizen army... lol. And if he was, then why suggest the same thing with Ron Paul at the head. One more thing, it was Kennedy, the one the Lizard Conservatives say was the last true US president who started Peace Corp and his brother RFK who pushed to start AmeriCorps, but you guys diss Obama for wanting it carried on... come on.
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 08:39:26 AM »

A wee bit obsessed with lizards perhaps?  ;D
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2009, 09:05:22 AM »

A wee bit obsessed with lizards perhaps?  ;D

It's my favorite conspiracy theory...  8)
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2009, 09:37:21 AM »

Okay lol
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2009, 11:19:11 AM »
And the lizard searching wing of the Republican party is dissing Obama for wanting a civilian national security force. LOL Then they suggest the same thing. Of course Obama is talking things like Peace Corps and AmeriCorps but still, the lizard conservatives thought he was talking about a citizen army... lol. And if he was, then why suggest the same thing with Ron Paul at the head. One more thing, it was Kennedy, the one the Lizard Conservatives say was the last true US president who started Peace Corp and his brother RFK who pushed to start AmeriCorps, but you guys diss Obama for wanting it carried on... come on.

Neo-Cons are NWO, Dems have traditionally been controlled by the Illuminati.  Labeling groups of people "Lizard Conservatives" is equivalent to someone calling you a dirty smelly wetback spic.  It's scary how you don't see that Democrats are COMPLETELY complicit in the same corruption as the GOP. 

I can't emphasize how important it is that you turn off your tv immediately. 
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2009, 01:23:48 PM »
Why and miss this, even you gotta like this. Olbermann is the truth. I think even a Lizard Republican like you can like this.  :D

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7Fk5wfAYX0U&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/7Fk5wfAYX0U&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6jSUHVUgJFc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/6jSUHVUgJFc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2009, 03:18:55 PM »
Why and miss this, even you gotta like this. Olbermann is the truth. I think even a Lizard Republican like you can like this.  :D

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7Fk5wfAYX0U&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/7Fk5wfAYX0U&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6jSUHVUgJFc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/6jSUHVUgJFc&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>



I'm not Republican either.
 

virtuoso

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2009, 04:21:04 PM »

Well since you have brought this up, if you remember a while ago, I posted a video of Olbermann really ripping into the Bush administration and I asked the question would Olbermann retreat and become a silent shill once the democrats took power. Well I asked the question and it seems he has responded to that in a very positive manner.

However I would like to know what you think about this, not how Olbermann has reacted but what Olbermann is revealing
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2009, 04:31:33 PM »
Why is it after the election Fox News supports Ron Pauls viewpoint?
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2009, 04:42:59 PM »
I like Ron Paul and understand his principal on this, but I think it's rather crude considering America's history with Somalia.

Nevermind that George Bush spent a couple years in 2006 and 2007 basically decimating and already impoverished country even deeper into the ground, bombing and killing thousands and destroying much of their infrastructure, either through US military or through proxy by way of the Ethiopian military.

But let's go ahead and forget all that and ring our fists at those evil pirates.

...also I wonder if (hypothetically) Somali vessels would be allowed to come trade and do business along the coast of Florida.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 04:52:33 PM by Infinite African AND American West Coastin »
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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2009, 06:12:19 PM »


Neo-Cons are NWO, Dems have traditionally been controlled by the Illuminati. 


"Whoever does not close his ear to the lamentations of the miserable, nor his heart to gentle pity;

whoever is the friend and brother of the unfortunate; whoever has a heart capable of love and friendship;

whoever is steadfast in adversity, unwearied in the carrying out of whatever has been once engaged in,

undaunted in the overcoming of difficulties; whoever does not mock and despise the weak;

whose soul is susceptible of conceiving great designs, desirous of rising superior to all base motives,

and of distinguishing itself by deeds of benevolence; whoever shuns idleness;

whoever considers no knowledge as unessential which he may have the opportunity of acquiring,

regarding the knowledge of mankind as his chief study; whoever, when truth and virtue are in question,

despising the approbation of the multitude, is sufficiently courageous to follow the dictates of his own heart, - such a one is a proper candidate."

-Adam Weishaupt.

 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2009, 06:51:41 AM »
Why is it after the election Fox News supports Ron Pauls viewpoint?

Exactly...I also love how they hijacked and took over the tea parties everywhere.  Fox is so freaked the fuck out about Obama that they are actually encouraging secession. 
 

virtuoso

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2009, 07:23:48 AM »
Why is it after the election Fox News supports Ron Pauls viewpoint?

Exactly...I also love how they hijacked and took over the tea parties everywhere.  Fox is so freaked the fuck out about Obama that they are actually encouraging secession. 

What do you expect the states to do while federal government is riding roughshod over the constitution? just because there is a new government in power, does not make that any more legitimate. In fact Fox News are the poison, they are illegitimate and so through them changing tac it delegitimises th message and in doing so actually brings to bear harm on Ron Paul and those that agree with many of the things he says. It's about association, suddenly they are associated with Fox News and some nutty (fabricated or not) republican politicians.

It would be like me saying I am against world government but then someone finding a quote from Hitler in which he said he was also against world government and so by association, my views are suddenly akin to someone who is viewed as evil, therefore world government must be a good thing after all.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 07:39:08 AM by virtuoso »
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2009, 09:41:37 AM »
quit invading their space
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2009, 03:35:57 PM »
They need to just finish off Africa, and turn the place in to a God damned country club and retirement community for aging baby boomers around the world. Overpopulation solved!

^^Is this CWalker or Trauma?
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"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

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"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2009, 09:42:42 AM »

Well since you have brought this up, if you remember a while ago, I posted a video of Olbermann really ripping into the Bush administration and I asked the question would Olbermann retreat and become a silent shill once the democrats took power. Well I asked the question and it seems he has responded to that in a very positive manner.

However I would like to know what you think about this, not how Olbermann has reacted but what Olbermann is revealing

What Olbermann is saying is what I agree with, BUT I'm trying to be more patient with him. Many liberals thought Obama's election will bring a liberal government over night, Bush people will be brought to justice and all will be well with the world. What is needed is to take back our liberties that were stripped of us, but it's not going to happen by just electing someone to do that. We need to MAKE OBAMA do it. FDR always went to moderate Democrat mode the moment the economy started to pick up. When it was time to push another New Deal program, FDR would simply say... "Make Me Do It" That's what we need to do with Obama. Tea Parties aren't going to work because that with taxes and we are never getting rid of taxes. BUT, if we do something for our civil liberties, if we get liberals and conservatives to march, and protest and get Obama to stop wiretapping, to get rid of ALL the CIA secret prisons, not just to expose them, and to finally close the School of the America's, or as it's now known, Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. We need to get together, and make Obama keep his promises and we want our government transparent. Now I'm patient with him, I know that to do this over night would jolt the CIA and the CIA might strike back, but his responsibility is not himself, but we the people, and we need to remind him that.
 

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2009, 11:06:11 AM »

Well since you have brought this up, if you remember a while ago, I posted a video of Olbermann really ripping into the Bush administration and I asked the question would Olbermann retreat and become a silent shill once the democrats took power. Well I asked the question and it seems he has responded to that in a very positive manner.

However I would like to know what you think about this, not how Olbermann has reacted but what Olbermann is revealing

What Olbermann is saying is what I agree with, BUT I'm trying to be more patient with him. Many liberals thought Obama's election will bring a liberal government over night, Bush people will be brought to justice and all will be well with the world. What is needed is to take back our liberties that were stripped of us, but it's not going to happen by just electing someone to do that. We need to MAKE OBAMA do it. FDR always went to moderate Democrat mode the moment the economy started to pick up. When it was time to push another New Deal program, FDR would simply say... "Make Me Do It" That's what we need to do with Obama. Tea Parties aren't going to work because that with taxes and we are never getting rid of taxes. BUT, if we do something for our civil liberties, if we get liberals and conservatives to march, and protest and get Obama to stop wiretapping, to get rid of ALL the CIA secret prisons, not just to expose them, and to finally close the School of the America's, or as it's now known, Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. We need to get together, and make Obama keep his promises and we want our government transparent. Now I'm patient with him, I know that to do this over night would jolt the CIA and the CIA might strike back, but his responsibility is not himself, but we the people, and we need to remind him that.

+1
 

RETURN OF THE OVERFIEND!

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Re: Ron Paul's plan to fend off pirates
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2009, 01:29:37 AM »

Well since you have brought this up, if you remember a while ago, I posted a video of Olbermann really ripping into the Bush administration and I asked the question would Olbermann retreat and become a silent shill once the democrats took power. Well I asked the question and it seems he has responded to that in a very positive manner.

However I would like to know what you think about this, not how Olbermann has reacted but what Olbermann is revealing

What Olbermann is saying is what I agree with, BUT I'm trying to be more patient with him. Many liberals thought Obama's election will bring a liberal government over night, Bush people will be brought to justice and all will be well with the world. What is needed is to take back our liberties that were stripped of us, but it's not going to happen by just electing someone to do that. We need to MAKE OBAMA do it. FDR always went to moderate Democrat mode the moment the economy started to pick up. When it was time to push another New Deal program, FDR would simply say... "Make Me Do It" That's what we need to do with Obama. Tea Parties aren't going to work because that with taxes and we are never getting rid of taxes. BUT, if we do something for our civil liberties, if we get liberals and conservatives to march, and protest and get Obama to stop wiretapping, to get rid of ALL the CIA secret prisons, not just to expose them, and to finally close the School of the America's, or as it's now known, Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. We need to get together, and make Obama keep his promises and we want our government transparent. Now I'm patient with him, I know that to do this over night would jolt the CIA and the CIA might strike back, but his responsibility is not himself, but we the people, and we need to remind him that.