Author Topic: U kno what I hate more than black people who still complain about slavery today?  (Read 4735 times)

Fraxxx

yeah i dont see the big deal. 400 years of captivity , rapes, beatings, mutilations and forced labor while being fed endtrails to eat is peanuts and defitely does not have a direct effect on the black condition today. besides, those reparations they promised but never issued really leveled the playing field for blacks and now everything is equal and racism doesn't exist and no more blacks suffer because of it. thank god the police love us.

BTW, real spit!
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virtuoso

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Were the scots not slaves?

Were the Russians not slaves under Serfdom

Were the Ukranians slaves to the Bolsheviks?

What about the whites who worked to death in the sugar mills of the Caribbean prior to the arrival of black slaves?

What about the white children sold into being slaves in the work houses

What about the hundreds of thousands of white slaves who died on the ships to America? (not voluntary workers, I am talking about those who had no choice).

What about in England the 5 year old boys whipped and beaten, whose only purpose to clean the chimneys of their masters?

No rights, no protections, no respect, no health care, no hope and yet I have to read pathetic spineless white people bitch about how evil whites are and read the thoughts of self righteous black people who seem to care not about any of these facts.

Oh but these people didn't wear chains....!!!! you think if these poor people were deemed to be answering back or getting out of line that they wouldn't be chained up and beaten?!

Then it hits me, this IS about racism, racism towards white people, a loathing which has been programmed in, a belittling towards both the plight that white people have endured, and a loathing when the actions of evil are inflicted by white people.

Do I read passionate threads from these people about the REAL and actual and fairly open practice of slavery still practiced in Africa, you know black people making other blacks their slaves, NOPE

My stance is quite clear FUCK YOU to all racism and to the pathetic grovelling whites I say get a grip and stop placing one race as lesser or superior to another.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 01:05:14 PM by virtuoso »
 

Blood of Abraham

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Were the scots not slaves?

Were the Russians not slaves under Serfdom

Were the Ukranians slaves to the Bolsheviks?

What about the whites who worked to death in the sugar mills of the Caribbean prior to the arrival of black slaves?

What about the white children sold into being slaves in the work houses

What about the hundreds of thousands of white slaves who died on the ships to America? (not voluntary workers, I am talking about those who had no choice).

What about in England the 5 year old boys whipped and beaten, whose only purpose to clean the chimneys of their masters?

No rights, no protections, no respect, no health care, no hope and yet I have to read pathetic spineless white people bitch about how evil whites are and read the thoughts of self righteous black people who seem to care not about any of these facts.

Oh but these people didn't wear chains....!!!! you think if these poor people were deemed to be answering back or getting out of line that they wouldn't be chained up and beaten?!

Then it hits me, this IS about racism, racism towards white people, a loathing which has been programmed in, a belittling towards both the plight that white people have endured, and a loathing when the actions of evil are inflicted by white people.

Do I read passionate threads from these people about the REAL and actual and fairly open practice of slavery still practiced in Africa, you know black people making other blacks their slaves, NOPE

My stance is quite clear FUCK YOU to all racism and to the pathetic grovelling whites I say get a grip and stop placing one race as lesser or superior to another.


i tend to agree with most of what you are saying here.
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KrazySumwhat

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Were the scots not slaves?

Were the Russians not slaves under Serfdom

Were the Ukranians slaves to the Bolsheviks?

What about the whites who worked to death in the sugar mills of the Caribbean prior to the arrival of black slaves?

What about the white children sold into being slaves in the work houses

What about the hundreds of thousands of white slaves who died on the ships to America? (not voluntary workers, I am talking about those who had no choice).

What about in England the 5 year old boys whipped and beaten, whose only purpose to clean the chimneys of their masters?

No rights, no protections, no respect, no health care, no hope and yet I have to read pathetic spineless white people bitch about how evil whites are and read the thoughts of self righteous black people who seem to care not about any of these facts.

Oh but these people didn't wear chains....!!!! you think if these poor people were deemed to be answering back or getting out of line that they wouldn't be chained up and beaten?!

Then it hits me, this IS about racism, racism towards white people, a loathing which has been programmed in, a belittling towards both the plight that white people have endured, and a loathing when the actions of evil are inflicted by white people.

Do I read passionate threads from these people about the REAL and actual and fairly open practice of slavery still practiced in Africa, you know black people making other blacks their slaves, NOPE

My stance is quite clear FUCK YOU to all racism and to the pathetic grovelling whites I say get a grip and stop placing one race as lesser or superior to another.

Yeah some good points actually. I've discussed some of the stuff that i have read here and opinions of racist blacks or blacks that wont get out of the past with co workers, you see i work in a very multicultural environment.
 Some Serbian guys mentioned what its like there, told me about their history and about war, slavery, dictatorship(well communism), etc and how if you ever lived here you have experienced war yet you dont hear any of them crying about it and using it as an excuse to expect sympathy or hand outs or to blindly hate everyone who isn't one of them.
 And iam pretty sure Middle eastern slave traders sold black slaves back in tha day too, to the whites and etc but i could do some more homework on that.
 Anyway, again, its 2013! I dont know what America is like but in Australia is multicultural as fuck. Theres not really any point being truely racist anymore, my country has been taken over just as the English took it from the Aborigines!
 Just like how the Pakistanis have taken the UK and the Latinos will take America! :P
 
 
 
 
 

Fraxxx

Were the scots not slaves?

Were the Russians not slaves under Serfdom

Were the Ukranians slaves to the Bolsheviks?

What about the whites who worked to death in the sugar mills of the Caribbean prior to the arrival of black slaves?

What about the white children sold into being slaves in the work houses

What about the hundreds of thousands of white slaves who died on the ships to America? (not voluntary workers, I am talking about those who had no choice).

What about in England the 5 year old boys whipped and beaten, whose only purpose to clean the chimneys of their masters?


I'm a little surprised that you can't see differences from case to case.

Sure, the Scots endured oppression for many centuries. But in Scotland they remained as a people, with a shared heritage and a cultural identity.

Many Russians were serfs. But firstly has Russia also a long and proud tradition of being intellectuals, scientists and artists and shared heritage and a cultural identity. Secondly, don't act as if Russia as a whole had a functional society. You can very well blame that on serfdom and what came with it and I can't see a reason to not bring it up as an explanation, as well as black slavery regarding African-Americans.

Yeah, indeed, what about the white slaves in the Carribbean? I mean, I'd never denigrate their individual suffering but I can't see the 40 million whites in the Carribbean that, by skin color, had been totally disenfranchised and disconnected from everything that could work as a basis for a shared identity. Well, except for that skin color.

The hundreds of thousands of whites that died on the ships are dead. There's no need for an explanation for them underachieving. Just like the blacks that died on the ships don't need such reasons.
The stories of those white slaves are as sad as the ones of the black slaves and it should be taught as well. For the sake of a better understanding of the world, to realise that things are never only black or white (no pun intended).
But you can hardly hold black Americans responsible for the failures of our educational systems and it also doesn't strip them from their right to point out slavery as a damn good explanation for a good portion of their problems in the American society.

What about the enslaved children? I don't know, can you single them out? Maybe their descendants are underachieving, too, who knows? But it damn sure hasn't been only 50 years since they all were practically considered sub-human.

I know, there are way too many uneducated people that parrot the things they were taught and they are told and it doesn't do reality justice. You can condemn white guilt and black self-righteousness, sure. After all, people are ignorant and lazy, readjusting your views and opinions can be hard and painful. So too many people simply don't.

But that all doesn't take away from the fact that black slaves in the U.S. experienced the destruction of every aspect of their lifes and identity. No language, no history, no culture, no family structures, no value as humans, for hundreds of years, and to an extent that situation prevailed til the mid of the 20th century.

Personally, I don't understand white guilt, it's ridiculous to me. But at the same time I can't see what's so difficult about acknowledging the exceptional dimension of what happened to African-Americans and that it still affects many of them gravely.
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virtuoso

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Okay Fraxx, all slavery is horrific, but white children were sold into slavery, they were treated as sub human, the prisoners who were forced to go to the caribbean were treated as sub human, they were disenfranchised, just because the white so called intellectuals apologise for their suffering by using terms like "indentured servitude" does not escape this fact.
The scots retained a history while being slaughtered and stripped of their land, just like the irish, many irish, english scots found themselves being work to death in the sugar mils. As far as the elite of the day were concerned these people were not worthy of respect, pity, they were scum who were there only to serve a purpose for their masters.

Tell me why is it when a group of scumbags rule over a society that for them to view black's with disdain is worse than viewing white lower slass as scum? Let's not forget that the black slave trade would not have been possible without a co-ordinated and well organised slave trade in Africa which included the participaton of black's, the upper class black people. As far as I am concerned history has been skewered so much that it never addresses anything other than fragments which push an agenda.

 

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You know what, I was going to write a response but I am being lazy, but think that the perfect response is this...

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World.  His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies.

By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat (70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves at this time).

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and over 300,000 were sold as slaves.

Ireland's population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were forcibly taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England.  Another 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia while 30,000 Irish men were sold to the highest bidder.

In 1656, Oliver Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

African slaves were very expensive (50 Sterling), had to be transported long distances and paid for not only in Africa but in the New World.  Irish slaves were cheap (no more than 5 Sterling) and most often were either kidnapped from Ireland, prisoners or forcibly removed.  They could be worked to death, whipped or branded without it being a crime.  Many, many times they were beat to death and while the death of an Irish slave was a monetary setback, it was far cheaper than the death of an expensive African.  Therefore, African slaves were treated much better in Colonial America.

The importation of Irish slaves continued well into the eighteenth century, long after the importation of African slaves became the norm.  Records state that after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia.

Irish slavery didn't end until Britain decided to end slavery in 1839 and stopped transporting slaves.


« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 03:36:19 PM by virtuoso »
 

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virtuoso

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It's amazing mdogg how you can criticise me for my lack of understanding and yet be so utterly ignorant towards the magnitude of Irish slavery but also it's longevity.
For this not to be well known is a betrayal of history.
 

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It's amazing mdogg how you can criticise me for my lack of understanding and yet be so utterly ignorant towards the magnitude of Irish slavery but also it's longevity.
For this not to be well known is a betrayal of history.

My post was dealing with the events and history of the US. I am a US history major after all. This is the first place that race was written into rules. Which is why in England, they enslaved Irish because to them ethnicity was written into rules. But I am coming for a US prospective, not a British/Irish prospective. What happened to the Scottish and Irish were horrific, and inline with what the abuse that the British performed through the world as they had colonies everywhere. Hell our foreign policy is basically policing the former British Empire (especially in the Middle East). With that said, I am not ignorant to Irish slavery or Scottish slavery, I just don't see how they compare to African slavery. What they experienced is still an issue in the British Isles and the Irish even separated and started their own nation. The troubles experienced by the Irish is still being felt today. So I am very confused at the point you are trying to make.
 

virtuoso

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All of my posts have broached the wider issue of slavery, not slavery confined to just one nation. To draw the obvious parallels between black slavery and white slavery.
You see every time slavery is mentioned the average person pictures evil white men enslaving black people when the reality was both black and white and therefore it blows my mind that todays generation of black people should have such a chip on their shoulder about the actions of the white man. Hell, some black groups base their very ideolog/racial hatred on the white man enslaving you.

 

Fraxxx


Okay Fraxx, all slavery is horrific, but white children were sold into slavery, they were treated as sub human, the prisoners who were forced to go to the caribbean were treated as sub human, they were disenfranchised, just because the white so called intellectuals apologise for their suffering by using terms like "indentured servitude" does not escape this fact.
The scots retained a history while being slaughtered and stripped of their land, just like the irish, many irish, english scots found themselves being work to death in the sugar mils. As far as the elite of the day were concerned these people were not worthy of respect, pity, they were scum who were there only to serve a purpose for their masters.

Tell me why is it when a group of scumbags rule over a society that for them to view black's with disdain is worse than viewing white lower slass as scum? Let's not forget that the black slave trade would not have been possible without a co-ordinated and well organised slave trade in Africa which included the participaton of black's, the upper class black people. As far as I am concerned history has been skewered so much that it never addresses anything other than fragments which push an agenda.



Fuck, somehow my original post got lost. >:( Once again in very short:

I think we're talking past each other. You're right with everything regarding the necessity of telling the whole story. People must realize that there are very few simple answers and that most issues are rather complex.

I never compared different peoples suffering, as if you could rate the quality of what they went through. If that's not cynical, what is?

My only point was, that the different aspects of the history of enslavement of blacks in the U.S. in total are a pretty good explanation for a lot of problems that still exist within the black community.

And the fact that others struggeled as well doesn't make that a less valid point. Where's the problem with acknowledging that? Like I wrote before:

"don't act as if Russia as a whole had a functional society. You can very well blame that on serfdom and what came with it and I can't see a reason to not bring it up as an explanation, as well as black slavery regarding African-

Americans."

I understand that you think that hand-picked parts of history are instrumentalized to reach certain goals, to push an agenda, I agree to an extent. Only, the way that you express your resentment of that practice, you kinda make it sound

like African slavery wasn't all that bad. If that's not your objective and you really just wanna point out that big parts of that issue are surpressed cuz it's serving a certain purpose, I definitely got you wrong.
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M Dogg™

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All of my posts have broached the wider issue of slavery, not slavery confined to just one nation. To draw the obvious parallels between black slavery and white slavery.
You see every time slavery is mentioned the average person pictures evil white men enslaving black people when the reality was both black and white and therefore it blows my mind that todays generation of black people should have such a chip on their shoulder about the actions of the white man. Hell, some black groups base their very ideolog/racial hatred on the white man enslaving you.



The problem with that is prior to the 1600's, slavery was a nationalism thing. British enslaved Scottish and Irish, Russians put themselves into serfdom, European nations enslaved their African colonies. This was NOT based off of racism, this was based off nationalism and it was based off conquering another people. In fact, when the US colonies set up it's laws in the 1660's-1690's, the British crown disagreed with what the people in the US colonies did. They did not want the people in the Americas defining what white was. To them it should stay British, not white. What these laws did in this country was tell you that one person was better than another because of skin color. NEVER before in history had this happen. NEVER. Never had a people said, we are white, you are black, therefore we are better than you. In terms of British and Irish, or British and Scottish, or rich and poor (especially rich and poor) then yes you saw enslavement. But never because of just color.

Had the settlers just said before, are nation is just stronger than yours, that's why we took you, then when slavery ended, racism would have ended as well. It's what every single empire did before the US colonies, they just said our nation is stronger than yours, we won a war and now you are in debt to us. But instead slavery was based off racial superiority, and it was done to separate white and black servants who rebelled together. It was the first case of the Elite coming together and saying "we need to separate the servant population." Look up Bacon's Rebellion as to why the original elite class in the US would want to do this. The laws that followed Bacon's Rebellion would lay the foundation of racial superiority that until then was never seen. For the first time, instead of British the colony elite said "white" to separate themselves from the rest of the population. They freed the white servant population, gave them all a gun and welcomed them into their false sense of "whitehood." They then changed the laws saying that all servants were now slaves for life, and if you are the child of a slave you would be born into slavery. For the next 300 years, until the 1960's, laws to separate people based on race would be passed over and over again in this country. For 300 years, this land would be founded on the bases of racism and the legacy of racism.

This is why black people complain. Because until 50 years ago, it was legally acceptable to racially discriminate against someone. Right now, still in Georgia, one school has segregated proms and the governor of the state supports that. We are just ONE generation removed from Jim Crow. Now black people are targeted as the labor behind the prison industrial complex. There is no question about it, it will take more than 50 years to heal from 300 years of slavery and racism. 50 years ago, think about how old your parents are. Think about how old your grandparents are. Think about the fact that only 20 years before your birth, it was legal to discriminate against someone, LEGAL.
 

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The problem with that is prior to the 1600's, slavery was a nationalism thing. British enslaved Scottish and Irish, Russians put themselves into serfdom, European nations enslaved their African colonies. This was NOT based off of racism, this was based off nationalism and it was based off conquering another people. In fact, when the US colonies set up it's laws in the 1660's-1690's, the British crown disagreed with what the people in the US colonies did. They did not want the people in the Americas defining what white was. To them it should stay British, not white. What these laws did in this country was tell you that one person was better than another because of skin color. NEVER before in history had this happen. NEVER. Never had a people said, we are white, you are black, therefore we are better than you. In terms of British and Irish, or British and Scottish, or rich and poor (especially rich and poor) then yes you saw enslavement. But never because of just color.

Had the settlers just said before, are nation is just stronger than yours, that's why we took you, then when slavery ended, racism would have ended as well. It's what every single empire did before the US colonies, they just said our nation is stronger than yours, we won a war and now you are in debt to us. But instead slavery was based off racial superiority, and it was done to separate white and black servants who rebelled together. It was the first case of the Elite coming together and saying "we need to separate the servant population." Look up Bacon's Rebellion as to why the original elite class in the US would want to do this. The laws that followed Bacon's Rebellion would lay the foundation of racial superiority that until then was never seen. For the first time, instead of British the colony elite said "white" to separate themselves from the rest of the population. They freed the white servant population, gave them all a gun and welcomed them into their false sense of "whitehood." They then changed the laws saying that all servants were now slaves for life, and if you are the child of a slave you would be born into slavery. For the next 300 years, until the 1960's, laws to separate people based on race would be passed over and over again in this country. For 300 years, this land would be founded on the bases of racism and the legacy of racism.

This is why black people complain. Because until 50 years ago, it was legally acceptable to racially discriminate against someone. Right now, still in Georgia, one school has segregated proms and the governor of the state supports that. We are just ONE generation removed from Jim Crow. Now black people are targeted as the labor behind the prison industrial complex. There is no question about it, it will take more than 50 years to heal from 300 years of slavery and racism. 50 years ago, think about how old your parents are. Think about how old your grandparents are. Think about the fact that only 20 years before your birth, it was legal to discriminate against someone, LEGAL.

Well analysed, although there are exceptions. the bigger picture is the difference like you described.

Peace,

Aladin
 

virtuoso

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Yet I am not denying that the racism was tangible, but what I am conveying to you is that slavery has never been about black and white and while black slavery was going forwards so too was white slavery. The reality is of course that the impoverished blacks were seen as lesser individuals than even the scum bag poor whites because they could not communicate effectively and were seen as being extremely backwards. Fraxx....what happened to black slaves was horrific, many of them didn't even make it dying on the boats in god forsaken living conditions, treated like pieces of shit,  However in the South M Dogg as you claim to know about the history then you will no doubt be aware that after the North freed the africans from slavery, they freely encouraged africans to indiscriminately terrorise and murder piss poor southerners, in fact that is where the original Ku Kluxx Klan stemmed from, it was seen as the poor whites protectorate which then of course spawned a a much harder stance, a deeper hatred of black people, the segregation of black people from white people. That is what pisses me off about history MDogg sure you can talk about segregation and i agree it is deplorable but the reason it stood for so long was because your average white person in the south was scared to death following the so called revenge attacks.

There is no doubt that racism and disdain exist and have existed, but to see black people 80's baby's see white people as having held them back is just laughable. To see the black generation of today demand reparations for the horrors inflicted on people they did not know who were around hundreds of years before them is disgusting. To see black people today preaching racism and hatred based upon the actions of people (and a minority at that) from a completely time zone and culture is bewildering. To see liberal white people today tippy toe around black people and apologise for all the ills of people who have been lying in graves for 150 plus years is an indictment of the brain washing which has gone on. I think all racism is bullshit, as for black people of today, they reap the benefits of racist laws like affirmative action. I see that shit slowly creep creeping into the ideology of businesses here too. Except they don't call it discrimination they call it being "positively diverse" and at that moment I am taken back to George Orwell's 1984.