Author Topic: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...  (Read 1074 times)

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2009, 08:01:24 AM »
Now you're limiting to rap to egotistical boasting!  I see!  Because, you know, that's all rappers spit about is themselves, right?

They don't contain a diversity of topics that reflects their socio-economic reality or discuss emporerment of self or education or growth or revolution or hatred.  It's all EGOTISTICAL BOASTING. 

I'm convinced now you know nothing about hip-hop or rap.
Cool breeze; I'm hopping out of new Beams
My outfit ran me a few G's but none of that will matter if you leave
I used to be an Adam with two Eves and shawtys automatically do me
Excuse me, all that happened before you doesn't matter
I'm a vision of the future climbing the success ladder
Recline, in the mean time, twenty three shine, diamond bling blind as I rewind
- Banks
 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2009, 01:17:35 PM »
Quote
Illogic is just pretending to be smart by use big words and stupid analogies

That's what people say that when stuff goes over their head. If you think those are big words then your vocabulary is pretty limited. Its the way he uses them that makes the song great.

Since I guess we're posting lyrics:

If a picture's worth a thousand words I'll paint a thousand pictures
To symbolize the decibel levels bred of a thousand whispers
To mummify useless unknown poems spit a shower with gold glitter
Pressure increase unleash the catacomb splitters
And for some reason you wonder why your puzzle is a jigsaw
When you fail to decipher the morse code to simply avoid the pitfalls
If need be I can get raw - just pocket the latex
But that's like asking why the man with no legs crawls to see the apex
Or why the young planet's seeds won't blossom into a garden
Parallel to your search for stardom where you leave breadcrumbs and jargon
That you can't even feel. So how's that for surface tension?
Every step shows you're a worthless henchman itching to meet your maker
I'd rather finger-paint than take a tainted pen and curse the paper
Voice box turns cauldron, saliva boils, then thoughts are vapor
If seeing foremost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades
Then a thoroughbred's accuracy isn't the focal point of perfection
Therefore you trudge through waist-high sludge and caramelized paints where
Prints left, taint every breath
Inhale - golden oxygen, then step graciously over landmines shallow beneath the soil surface
Take a small step for man and ascend a stairway to heaven on pegs
To take a giant leap for mankind to stand and keep your legs
What a dilemma to hold hands with
Sanity's a steep cliff of gift
And it seems because of your fork-tongued dreams your hands slipped
Rip your canteen of get-rich schemes and set sail on the seven seas
Hooker left that envy to drown in greed
Before you swallow your pride and wash it down with a glass of formaldehyde
I'll preserve the day the Earth fell, to symbolize how Atlas died
I've tried to rush the wormhole to deliver a eulogy
But the other eight planets follow me to stage a silent mutiny
No more - dodging shooting stars
No more - lashing of asteroid belts
No more - avoiding supernovas and fear of android wealth
If science and religion is the building block for a laughing stock
Then the foundation should crumble at the epicenter of the aftershock
The bow breaks at the vinyl spots
The cradle of all this crime rate drops
I've timed hate crops harvest to see if records of frisbees flop hardest
Well that would depend on the trajectory
And the way the projector projected me
I was a hologram waiting for wind to inherit merit discrepancy
Is it time for lift off?
I think go-go gadget propellers are prepared
Is it time for lift off?
The rocket fuel was at peak in mid-week
I think it's time for lift off
The structural integrity seems to be holding
But three astronauts were found in a cockpit falling asleep
So will these thousand whispers ever hold a cleft note to sing?
Or will these blisters become targets of the scorpion king's sting?
Because the poison invades the veins to the stages of Hume
I'll take a rain check in the same breath of a checkmate - in three moves
I know everything is everything and nothing's still something else
So I cleared my shelves of any signs of wealth to impress the elves
My neck it holds bricks that weighs down my liftoff
As a precaution I replaced the wood in the loft with something soft
Your windows - they look clear but my pane's a stained glass
To dampen the impression of expression anything has
Do the hues you use, do they capture the pain my frame has?
Or are you caught in the faces we weave, scared to changes masks?
I'm the lawnmower man on a mission to slaughter the strange grass
But first I must erase cyberspace and rape the track before train pass
You strain cash
Well I take the root of evil, make tea
Patiently holding hands with anxiousness, I can already taste it
There's the kettle whistle, interrupting my vision of rainbow bands
The steam scolding my hand
The mug shattered and I wasted it
Now if a picture's worth a thousand words I painted a thousand pictures
On the beautiful backdrop of butterfly kisses

This song is about someone trying to succeed in life but doing it for the wrong reasons. The Who song is about revolution. Both meaningful topics. The only way to objectively compare the lyrics is by structure. The reason I chose this song was because of its wordplay. And its miles ahead of "Won't Get Fooled Again" any way you look at it.

Its not even close. Just admit you were wrong and move on. There's no shame in that.
 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2009, 01:32:46 PM »
Quote
This one is relatively short; I won't say much about it
What's the point if you're still gon' doubt
History is a weapon being used against us
Humanity has been abused before but few remember
Human hybrid, Hubble iris, double-sided untouchable
When it comes to rhyming, but I struggle in private
"One Ought Not To Think", in other words stop thinking
Humankind is now on the brink of extinction
The Eagle has landed, one of von Braun
Handpicked the evil bastard called "Magnum Innominandum"
These ice-age quotes opposed Helios
Confusing the most yet I find it remedial
Turn the radio and TV off, think for a second
Technology is a blessing but it's also a weapon
A weapon of mass destruction giving global instructions
Teaching us how to hate but does it in a way that we love it
Take my beloved rap music, erase the beat
Consumers act like they're afraid of intelligent speech
The rhymes are imagined in theory
Then itemized into a query
It takes more than your ears to hear me
Meditate; you will see it clearly
Elevate to a level where your judgment isn't impaired daily
Before the New World Order right around the corner
One day soon they gone lock down the borders
I ain't a activist, I can't do shit
I'd rather be a pacifist with a full clip
Keep saying your prayers, they won't care
God won't hear, do something, you won't dare
It's happened before, it'll happen again
It's happening over there; it'll spread here my friend
"One Ought Not To Think", in other words stop thinking
Mankind is now on the brink of extinction
Lost wisdom from the lost kingdom
Humankind is now on the brink of extinction
- Can-I-Bus one ought not to think

You should stop thinking!
Cool breeze; I'm hopping out of new Beams
My outfit ran me a few G's but none of that will matter if you leave
I used to be an Adam with two Eves and shawtys automatically do me
Excuse me, all that happened before you doesn't matter
I'm a vision of the future climbing the success ladder
Recline, in the mean time, twenty three shine, diamond bling blind as I rewind
- Banks
 

Shallow

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2009, 03:29:18 PM »
Now you're limiting to rap to egotistical boasting!  I see!  Because, you know, that's all rappers spit about is themselves, right?

They don't contain a diversity of topics that reflects their socio-economic reality or discuss emporerment of self or education or growth or revolution or hatred.  It's all EGOTISTICAL BOASTING. 

I'm convinced now you know nothing about hip-hop or rap.


My remark was as close minded as yours, on purpose. I guess the fact that I structured exaclty like yours went over your head.


But now you got me going. Expect a few essays from me coming up on why Won't Get Fooled Again is a better song that Illogic's. I think before I speak and when I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it, but when I say the top rap lyricists can't compare to the top rock ones, as I've said a few times, that just doesn't come out of thin air or close mindedness. It comes from years of loving, studying, and researching hip hop. And then growing up and realizing it was never as good as I thought it was.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 03:59:24 PM by Shallow »
 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2009, 04:51:03 PM »
Now you're limiting to rap to egotistical boasting!  I see!  Because, you know, that's all rappers spit about is themselves, right?

They don't contain a diversity of topics that reflects their socio-economic reality or discuss empowerment of self or education or growth or revolution or hatred.  It's all EGOTISTICAL BOASTING. 

I'm convinced now you know nothing about hip-hop or rap.


My remark was as close minded as yours, on purpose. I guess the fact that I structured exaclty like yours went over your head.


But now you got me going. Expect a few essays from me coming up on why Won't Get Fooled Again is a better song that Illogic's. I think before I speak and when I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it, but when I say the top rap lyricists can't compare to the top rock ones, as I've said a few times, that just doesn't come out of thin air or close mindedness. It comes from years of loving, studying, and researching hip hop. And then growing up and realizing it was never as good as I thought it was.

There was nothing close minded about my original remark.  You can not deny that hip-hop touches on a diversity of topics.  That's not opinion, it's a fucking fact.  You on the other hand have an opinion about  the lyrics of Townsend and how the greatest rockers are all superior than that of rappers.

Well, you could deny that rappers don't touch a diversity of topics and is simply egotistical boasting but you'd be wrong.  Your opinion on rappers is wrong and the facts back up my judgment.  Get over yourself.
Cool breeze; I'm hopping out of new Beams
My outfit ran me a few G's but none of that will matter if you leave
I used to be an Adam with two Eves and shawtys automatically do me
Excuse me, all that happened before you doesn't matter
I'm a vision of the future climbing the success ladder
Recline, in the mean time, twenty three shine, diamond bling blind as I rewind
- Banks
 

Shallow

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2009, 05:45:39 PM »
Now you're limiting to rap to egotistical boasting!  I see!  Because, you know, that's all rappers spit about is themselves, right?

They don't contain a diversity of topics that reflects their socio-economic reality or discuss empowerment of self or education or growth or revolution or hatred.  It's all EGOTISTICAL BOASTING. 

I'm convinced now you know nothing about hip-hop or rap.


My remark was as close minded as yours, on purpose. I guess the fact that I structured exaclty like yours went over your head.


But now you got me going. Expect a few essays from me coming up on why Won't Get Fooled Again is a better song that Illogic's. I think before I speak and when I'm wrong I have no problem admitting it, but when I say the top rap lyricists can't compare to the top rock ones, as I've said a few times, that just doesn't come out of thin air or close mindedness. It comes from years of loving, studying, and researching hip hop. And then growing up and realizing it was never as good as I thought it was.

There was nothing close minded about my original remark.  You can not deny that hip-hop touches on a diversity of topics.  That's not opinion, it's a fucking fact.  You on the other hand have an opinion about  the lyrics of Townsend and how the greatest rockers are all superior than that of rappers.

Well, you could deny that rappers don't touch a diversity of topics and is simply egotistical boasting but you'd be wrong.  Your opinion on rappers is wrong and the facts back up my judgment.  Get over yourself.

You're right, except you didn't rap touches on a diversity of topic you said "rap captures the essence of the human spirit from a multitude of perspectives". What the fuck does that even mean anyway? Show me any form of art and I'll find someone that says it captures the essence of the human spirit from a multitude of perspectives. It's such a stupid and pretentious thing to say and no less opinion than saying Won't Get Fooled Again is beautiful and timeless. You can apply those lyrics to so many revolutions and political movements throughout history and that is a fact. And you can find millions of people that are moved and touched by reading those words and that makes them beautiful.

Fuck, I'm not even a big fan of The Who.


"If a picture's worth a thousand words I'll paint a thousand pictures". Another stupid pretentious thing to say, but it does touch on something very important. Somethingthat has plagued rap lyricism since day one. TOO MANY FUCKING WORDS. Rappers can't just maje it obvious what they are trying to say. They have to cement it over and over again. Ok, we fucking get it. Stop telling us again and again. Fucking Nas thinks we're so stupid in his song obviously from the point of view of a gun he has to say in the lyrics "I'm a Gun". Tell that isn't fucking stupid. And that's one of the highlight songs of one of raps best lyricists.

One question though; is his name Illogic a play on words combining Ill and Logic or is he called that because his lyrics lack logic? If it's the latter then it makesa lot more sense. (that's not a joke either. I'm serious. If his gimmick is being illogical then I'm beginning to understand him).


 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2009, 05:50:51 PM »
i think every rapper, wether gangsta or 'consious' has boasted at least once if not more, thats what irks me about rap, everyone is afraid to step outside the box, even the roots who are the acclaimed outsiders of rap, "He really drums", fall into the same pitfalls as every single rapper, rappers are afraid to be creative, all of them,
 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2009, 05:56:59 PM »
rap captures the essence of the human spirit from a multitude of perspectives.  only a fool would dismiss hip-hop as having no substance.  one who does never enjoyed hip-hop in the first place
no it does not, and you know why, this is another anoyance that plauges rap, these guys, calling themselves poets, yet the I is always litteral, the rapper is speaking, when a good song writer, or poet (i think most rock stars arent even so egotistical as to call themselves poets), says i.... it is not the artist, but the speaker of the poem; when you read a novel the narrator does not = the author, same goes in poetry, and i expect a lot of the same in song writing, rappers missed this in their poetics 101 class, and talk from the pov of themselves, 85-95% of the time.
 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2009, 06:59:51 PM »
I'm not denying that other art forms capture the human spirit. 

You're the one who simplified rap, you're the one who limited rap to something.  I argued with you because you're the one being pretentious and close minded.   You're on some high horse with the belief that rock lyrics are superior than raps.  I pointed out that it was only your opinion that Townsend lyrics were
Quote
timeless and beautiful. Townsend very cleverly describes revolution

I'm not going to sit here and apply some bullshit collegiate perspective to rap. "It's too literal.  It uses too many words." blah blah blah.  Talk about pretentious!  Get the stick out of both of your asses. 

As I said again I'm convinced you don't comprehend hip-hop.  You're just an outsider that discovered it.  You don't understand the true power and meaning of hip-hop.
Cool breeze; I'm hopping out of new Beams
My outfit ran me a few G's but none of that will matter if you leave
I used to be an Adam with two Eves and shawtys automatically do me
Excuse me, all that happened before you doesn't matter
I'm a vision of the future climbing the success ladder
Recline, in the mean time, twenty three shine, diamond bling blind as I rewind
- Banks
 

Triple OG Rapsodie

Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2009, 07:10:08 PM »

You're right, except you didn't rap touches on a diversity of topic you said "rap captures the essence of the human spirit from a multitude of perspectives". What the fuck does that even mean anyway? Show me any form of art and I'll find someone that says it captures the essence of the human spirit from a multitude of perspectives. It's such a stupid and pretentious thing to say and no less opinion than saying Won't Get Fooled Again is beautiful and timeless. You can apply those lyrics to so many revolutions and political movements throughout history and that is a fact. And you can find millions of people that are moved and touched by reading those words and that makes them beautiful.

Rap captures the essence of the human spirit from a multitude of perspectives = rap touches on a diversity of topic. I'm going to assume you knew that and are just being an ass. What I can't understand is if you prefer simple language so much why you are ragging on rap. There's plenty of simplistic songs to be found in the mainstream. There are also a lot of complex songs to be found, though most of the time you have to look underground.

There are a million songs about revolution, what makes "Won't Get Fooled Again" special? What makes it any better than a PE song? At some point you have to compare the lyrical quality and it is there that Illogic's song wins. Simply put, if you took the lyrics of both songs and read them like a poem, Illogic's would be considered more sophisticated because it has the more complex structure and makes you think a little bit more. You can call it pretentious all you want, I'll just tell you to go listen to Crank Dat.

Quote
"If a picture's worth a thousand words I'll paint a thousand pictures". Another stupid pretentious thing to say, but it does touch on something very important. Something that has plagued rap lyricism since day one. TOO MANY FUCKING WORDS. Rappers can't just maje it obvious what they are trying to say. They have to cement it over and over again. Ok, we fucking get it. Stop telling us again and again. Fucking Nas thinks we're so stupid in his song obviously from the point of view of a gun he has to say in the lyrics "I'm a Gun". Tell that isn't fucking stupid. And that's one of the highlight songs of one of raps best lyricists.

First you say Illogic's lyrics don't have a meaning and that he is using "big words" and being pretentious. Now you are saying rappers make it obvious what they are saying. You just contradicted yourself.

The one thing I have to agree with you on is that it is annoying how "I Gave You Power" gives the whole analogy away in the beginning. But obviously one song isn't representative of an entire genre. And Nas is only one of mainstream rap's best lyricists. I give you a song with some depth that doesn't directly say what it is talking about and you call it pretentious. Make up your mind.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 07:24:20 PM by rapsodie »
 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2009, 09:40:48 PM »
I never compared The Who to PE and I never said Townsend was a better lyricist than Chuck D. Chuck D is one of rock's elite lyricist, and yes he counts as rock because he said so.

Capturing the essence of the human sprit is no way the same thing as touching on various subject diversely. How the fuck can argue that? Getting inside the soul of someone and translating that through art is the same as creating art about a bunch of different subjects. I can draw stick figures portraying a man, a rhino, and space ship, etc and call that touvhing on various subjects. I wouldn't call it capturing the essence of shit. How the fuck old are you clowns? Am I talking to the same poster with two different aliases?

This rap song by Illogic has the lyrical quality of an old Ultimte Warrior promo. He's just over complicating and very simple, old, and boring concept of rap; "You're a sellout. I'm not"


What the fuck is golden oxygen? And what does it have to do with ascending to heaven on pegs after walking though a mine field?  The all of a sudden he's in the seven sees but ends up in outer space where the 8 planets are being sucked into a worm hole. And What the fuck does formaldehyde have to do with pride?


This guy rips Illogic to pieces lyrically, by your standards




 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2009, 11:42:00 PM »
Capturing the essence of the human sprit is no way the same thing as touching on various subject diversely. How the fuck can argue that? Getting inside the soul of someone and translating that through art is the same as creating art about a bunch of different subjects. I can draw stick figures portraying a man, a rhino, and space ship, etc and call that touvhing on various subjects. I wouldn't call it capturing the essence of shit. How the fuck old are you clowns? Am I talking to the same poster with two different aliases?

There is no universal human spirit, as everyone has different beliefs, motivations. If you spend your time drawing stick figures of a space ship then chances are that's whats important to you. When a rapper touches on different subjects through songs they are expressing themselves through their music. Hence it is capturing THEIR spirit. That's where the multitude of perspectives comes in as everyone has different views, opinions, beliefs.

Quote
This rap song by Illogic has the lyrical quality of an old Ultimte Warrior promo. He's just over complicating and very simple, old, and boring concept of rap; "You're a sellout. I'm not"
Are you saying that's your interpretation of the song? Its not mine. But if it were I'd consider it just as valid as the simple, old and boring concept of revolution.

Quote
What the fuck is golden oxygen? And what does it have to do with ascending to heaven on pegs after walking though a mine field?  The all of a sudden he's in the seven sees but ends up in outer space where the 8 planets are being sucked into a worm hole. And What the fuck does formaldehyde have to do with pride?
You never heard the expression silence is golden? sheesh. I'm not going to bother explaining the entire song to someone who doesn't appreciate it. I notice what you do a lot is to label anything you don't understand as stupid. Real adult behavior there.

Quote
This guy rips Illogic to pieces lyrically, by your standards


No actually he doesn't. Again you aren't aware of my standards.

a few nice sounding lines which he probably took from a poem but mostly just yelling about how he's the ultimate warrior. No multisyllabic rhymes, no internal rhyming going on, no rhyme scheme at all actually. Not even close.

Quote
I never compared The Who to PE and I never said Townsend was a better lyricist than Chuck D. Chuck D is one of rock's elite lyricist, and yes he counts as rock because he said so.

Chuck D raps. If you consider him one of rock's elite lyricists then this argument (or at least what it was originally) is over as it shows that rappers are as good as the legends of rock.

I guess the only argument left is The Who versus Illogic. You have yet to make any argument that The Who are better or even state your critieria of why they would be better. You obviously don't appreciate complex rhymes like I do. So what's your criteria for judging the value of a song?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 11:59:14 PM by rapsodie »
 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2009, 04:46:14 AM »
This is my last post in this thread.

1. Not the same poster.

2.  If you did draw stick figures with purposeful intent then it would be art that captures some essence of the human spirit. 

3.  You're the one making the accusations, I'm simply defending hip-hop.  You're the one on the high horse pointing down on hip-hop.  I'm simply arguing it's not any better or worse than rock music.
Cool breeze; I'm hopping out of new Beams
My outfit ran me a few G's but none of that will matter if you leave
I used to be an Adam with two Eves and shawtys automatically do me
Excuse me, all that happened before you doesn't matter
I'm a vision of the future climbing the success ladder
Recline, in the mean time, twenty three shine, diamond bling blind as I rewind
- Banks
 

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Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2009, 08:27:45 AM »
Ok, I'm just going to assume you guys are both between 19 and 21 because that's what you sound like. I will cater to that age group in my next response.


The point I was making about capturing the essence of the human spirit and how hip hop does so is bullshit means that since it applies to everything using it to compliment hip hop doesn't mean anything. It's like saying that man is special because he has skin. We all have skin. Who cares. Why even mention it?

If this guy had said all art captures the essence of the human spirit, The Who included, and Hip Hop is no different I may have stayed out of it in the long run. In the short run, saying that art captures the essence of the human spirit is opinion, and that is fact. You cannot describe what human spirit really is, and you cannot describe what the essence of it is, any more than I can describe why Won't Get Fooled Again is timeless. There is no fact in either statement and both are opinion. Dismissing Townsend as simply being bitter was an insult to the work so I responded as such, on purpose to show how petty Action's post was.


Also, every post in here was posted in defense on brash, snobbish, claims so that's why my posts would follow suit. rapsodie said rap lyricists shit on the best Rock ones and then posted a clip using a sample from a very good lyrical song to show how inferior it is to the what a hip hop artist can do. I took offense to that and responded. I'm on no higher a horse than you too are. Using more rhymes and and bigger more complex metaphors do not make for better lyrics. It just makes it more complex.

I'll use metal as a comparison. Metal lyricists use that weird shit all the time. Something like "The barrels of hell understand the logic of death/and ferals undwell to uncover their breasts". (that's not a real lyric from a song, it's just a stupid couplet I wrote in ten seconds). And metal guitarists use these very hard to plat complicated techniques involving a lot of shredding and tapping. Metal fans think all that is evidence that metal is superior, because classic rock or punk are much more simple and therefore worse. And if we were on a metal forum and someone bashed Won't Get Fooled Again I'd be in the exact same argument with those guys.

As for the songs; yes that's what I think 1000 whispers is about and I'll show you why I think that. I could be wrong. It's only the second day of me hearing the song.

Illogic starts off by showing that he can show us a thousand different things by using thousands of words. And in doing so he is telling us that'll it'll be hard to hear or understand this song because 1000 Whispers, which is a double meaning of both how low a decibel level whispers have and that the song 1000 Whispers is difficult to comprehend.

So basically; look how great I am at what I do. it's so good you might be able to understand it.


Then he goes on to say that he can be more raw with his words and less cryptic but it is not in his nature to do so and it would make no sense for him to so. Now this I could be wrong on because because both examples he uuses, the man with no legs, and the young planet's ability to grow a garden, are examples of something less than adequate. So it's almost like he's saying If I was complete enough I would be able to say what I mean more directly.

Anyway, from there talks about said person who is a sell out bybeing a worthless henchman searching for stardom thinking he can go that route and come back as he pleases by following the breadcrumbs, but the fact he even needs breadcrumbs may imply he is entering unchartered territory that he probably can never come from. And Illogic would never do that. He'd never attempt to write hits for money. He'd rather finger-paint than take a tainted pen and curse the paper.

Illogic is not a sellout. Said rapper is.

From there he blends games and war and attempts to tell said rapper that this game of horseshoes he is entering may be better played with handgrenades, but even that won't matter because it's a war you cannot win. Because even if you are the top horse and hit all your targets that is not the key to victory.

From there he goes on about how this dream to succeed is devilish, and in your attempt to cleanse your self of it Illogic will attempt to capture the time when your world was destroyed despite illogic's attempt to honor the life of said rapper with the strength of the rest of the universe.

Then he seems to show the merits of paganism. He scoffs at religion and material wealth and gives up his wealth to impress the elves. I'm assuming he's trying to show that the Gods of Hip Hop are what matter. I don't know. The lyrics are all over the place.

Now as his 8 planet mutiny is under way Illogic's mission is to wipe cleam all the bad seeds of Hip Hop and take the root of evil from it and instead make tea. But not even illogic with all his talent can drink the tea. It's too hot.



Now The Who song is a lot more direct. I guess Townsend has legs and doesn't need to crawl on his fully grown planet filled with gardens.


We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

The first verse is the beginning of the revolt. The people will be the ones in harms way, children included while those that started the fight will be sitting back and doing nothing.

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and greet the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The chorus shows that the narrator weary of change will go along with it but never change his way of life to appease it.

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

The revolt is over the fight is won, but the world is no different. Then the chorus comes back and the narrators greeting of change has been demoted to a grin.

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?


The new regime is in power and it's time to appease them now. The masses are brainwashed and genuinely believe all is well.

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-by
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight


The people appear different but everything is as it was before. The party line has changed but the people are still being parted. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.


I could apply this song to Bush and Obama. Nixon and Carter. Batista and Castro. God and Lucifer. That's why I like it. It simple but it's deep and meaningful.


I'm not even going to respond to the Warrior comment. If you can't get the sarcasm of that joke I don't expect you to get why I think Pete Townsend's lyrics here are good.


Musically there is no argument. Illogoc very plainly raps over a loop while the Who play and sing like champs through a very solid melody.














 

Triple OG Rapsodie

Re: Why is rap the only genre of music where you hear...
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2009, 02:08:11 PM »
No I'm not 21. That was a few years ago. What would that have to do with this argument?

The reason I said the best rappers lyrically shit on the best rock musicians was in response to a previous post that attacked the lyrical ability of rappers using "brash, snobbish claims." Was this you on a different account? I'm not the one getting all riled up and angry.

If you had an interpretation of the song this whole time then why did you act like you can't understand it? I would argue that illogic himself "sells out" towards the end. Either way it says much more than "You're a sellout, I'm not." Along with revolution it can be applied to many different situations.
Quote
I could apply this song to Bush and Obama. Nixon and Carter. Batista and Castro. God and Lucifer.
thinking about it, you could also apply 1000 Whispers to various presidents, as well as God and Lucifer. It could be applied to the Who as well.

Quote
"The barrels of hell understand the logic of death/and ferals undwell to uncover their breasts"

Those are just random words, some of them not even words. ferals? undwell? That line doesn't have any meaning. There's a difference between trying to sound complex and actually succeeding in making an actual statement. Even if it had meaning, then that would still be just a line. Can you make an entire song that follows a concept where the lines make sense and is consistent throughout?

When I say illogic is more lyrical I'm approaching this from a hip hop perspective where rhyming ability and use of poetic elements as well as subject matter determine your skills, things that illogic has down pretty well. When an artist is accused of "not being able to rap", its usually because they have a very simple rhyme scheme. If you have a different criteria where simpler language wins out then there's no way we will ever agree what makes the "best lyricist." The reason I chose this specific example is because people usually accuse rap of being too simple, hence this was a counter-argument to those people. But since you are taking the opposite approach I could go back and take a rapper mentioned earlier, Chuck D, who you have even identified as a legend of rock. He has simpler rhymes thus would fit your critieria.

One final comment. Musically isn't lyrically. I never said Illogic was musically better than The Who so I don't know why you are bringing this up. Obviously he took one loop from a more complex instrumental and rapped over it. My only argument was to say that Illogic can write better lyrics than them, but you disagree because you have a different opinion on what makes a song lyrical. However I have a feeling that most of the people on here would agree with me.

edit: actually now that I think about it, the same reason The Who are more musically advanced than Illogic could explain why Illogic is more lyrically advanced. because their production is more complex and varied and incorporates different instruments, while 1000 Whispers uses one loop. Similarly, illogic incorporates more metaphors, internal rhymes and multisyllabic rhymes, making his lyrics more advanced. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 03:05:22 PM by rapsodie »