Author Topic: Israel's Impunity  (Read 2398 times)

The Overfiend

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 06:45:34 PM »
Hahaaaaa...now why get all emotional with it?

Ok then, so you believe that 'there is no objectivity in socio-political matters'. But then, let me ask you this; do you think your average Israeli settler is thinking objectively or subjectively?
Really, your average fanatical Israeli settler only gives a damn for his own subjective perspective. The Ego. Me. Me. Me.


You may want to look up the meaning of the word 'objective'. Of course, there is an objective way of looking at the world my son, it is essential, as well as the subjective. I'm not arguing that either is correct, rather it is best to consider matters from a variety of perspectives.  Now considering the subjective perspective of your average Palestinian kid, of course, its a tragic and unfair situation for these kids, there are no excuses and if you look back, I never actually offered any or try to justify the Palestinians being 'disposable', it was more rather a calm lament on the human condition.

And do not let my cold tone upset you, I assure you, beneath the blackened and gnarled exterior of this heart beats a love and empathy for humankind.

"...why? Because I never rejected him!"
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 07:04:39 PM by Illuminati Clique »
 

IslamInevitable

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 07:04:56 PM »
i mean absolute objectivity son... and really the definition entails uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices...

any thought that a human conjours into his conciousness is influenced by his previous experiences = a prejudice
"In a ball of confusion.... shoulda never had me" - Tupac
 

The Overfiend

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2009, 07:15:53 PM »
Ok good, you recognise there are downsides to both objective and subjective points of view:


any thought that a human conjours into his conciousness is influenced by his previous experiences = a prejudice
^thats the subjective

i mean absolute objectivity son... and really the definition entails uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices...
^the objective

Thats why its essential to consider both perspectives, how you going to only consider socio-political matters from a subjective perspective? You can, but then you are limiting your understanding.
 

IslamInevitable

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2009, 07:21:36 PM »
i dont think you understand what i'm saying....

im sayin that a human brain is incapable of seperating himself of his own prejudices... he can go far, but he'll never be completely objective... therefore he will always have an element of subjectivity with him...

obviously you think you have achieved a perspective of objectivity, but you fail to understand and probably have a defense mechanism for is that you are still very much subjective in that objective opinion, because you are still basing it on prejudices,  - you may claim not - but you are and deep within your unconcious their influence exists!
"In a ball of confusion.... shoulda never had me" - Tupac
 

The Overfiend

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2009, 08:02:56 PM »
Well I agree with that, we can take our objectivity far, but we may never be totally seperated from our personal experience. Thats the human condition.


But the question is, does it matter? Maybe all we need to do is 'go far', that is, be objective to an attainable utilitarian extent

For instance, in the West, we have laws on anti-discrimination, etc. These laws can't bring about the total end of discrimination or prejudice, but we can at least take it so far; so that people of all races, colours and creeds can, to an extent live together with some dignity, self-determination and peace.

Now for instance, in a society that champions subjectively-based social values like Israel (where Arabs can't marry Israelis or have certain jobs, where Israeli kids write messages on bombs to drop on Palestinian and Lebanese kids, etc) or Malaysia (where Muslim women can get whipped for drinking alcohol), individual self-determination and freedom is limited as a result of a lack of objective understanding and conscience within the culture and society. This is not only characteristic of such nation-States, but also such individuals who champion subjective thinking without tempering that centric-subjective thought with objective understanding: from your average Islamo-centric internet blogger, to your average Zionist-centric settler.



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It deals with division: ALLAH is all
United we stand son, divided we fall


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« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 10:37:31 PM by Illuminati Clique »
 

LAXCENTRAL

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2009, 11:38:18 AM »
ITS SO HARD TO CHOOSE SIDES THOUGH... JEWS AND MUSLIMS HAVE SO MUCH HISTORY...
BUT THEY SHOW THEY HATE HEACH OTHER...


Jews and Muslims have lived together in peace for years...there is no hate on either side.

are u fuckin shrooming dogg?
lol look at palestine and israel...
obviously there is hate
 

LAXCENTRAL

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2009, 11:39:21 AM »
ISRAEL IS A VERY STRICT AND SELFISH COUNTRY THOUGH...
 

LAXCENTRAL

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2009, 11:41:27 AM »
ITS THE ONLY COUNTRY WHERE IF YOU ARE BORN THERE YOU STILL ARE NOT CONSIDERED A CITIZEN UNLESS YOU'RE A JEW
-----
YOU'RE BORN IN US... YOUR A US CITIZEN DISREGARDS TO UR RELIGION...
YOU'RE BORN IN SUADI ARABIA...YOUR A SAUDI CITIZEN DISREGARDS TO UR RELIGION...
YOU'RE BORN IN JAPAN...YOUR A SAUDI  CITIZEN DISREGARDS TO UR RELIGION...
 

LAXCENTRAL

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2009, 11:42:58 AM »
HAVING THIS LAW... IN ISRAEL WHERE NON-JEWS CANNOT BE CITIZENS...
PUTS PEOPLE AT A DISADVANTAGE...
RUSSIANS, ETHIOPIANS, NON-JEWS CANNOT BE CITIZEN...
THEREFORE THEY CANNOT JOIN THE GOVERNMENT... MAKE AND CHANGE THE RULES
 

IslamInevitable

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2009, 03:23:10 PM »
Well I agree with that, we can take our objectivity far, but we may never be totally seperated from our personal experience. Thats the human condition.


Now for instance, in a society that champions subjectively-based social values like Israel (where Arabs can't marry Israelis or have certain jobs, where Israeli kids write messages on bombs to drop on Palestinian and Lebanese kids, etc) or Malaysia (where Muslim women can get whipped for drinking alcohol), individual self-determination and freedom is limited as a result of a lack of objective understanding and conscience within the culture and society. T


what you are purporting is essentially a nihilistic skeleton of a existentialist ideology... but all forms of practiced ideologies are judged by their own course of existence; in your case you state uS to be that example where, although the reality contradicts it, "freedoms" are afforded to everyone and according to you these are the products of objective idealism.

 in an existentialist perception, this freedom of attaining pleasure is suitable to everyone's carnal appetite... so as long as that persuit doesnt violate another's persuit;

but in your terms if you look at it in a utilitarian perspective its a society thats doomed to implode, cuz the utility of an object is derived from its moral worth, since no moral code is standard as that would be infringing on people's freedom, this spirit of nihilism has led to multiple conflicts that are bound to pour over eventually into an implosion -> dysfunctional america which is the true america and full of contradictions, and the one you paint is only applicable to you!

and please dont be a cross cultural judge and state that muslim societies suffer due to the lack of these objective idealism... its only due to the european invasion of those lands that those conflicts arose, and european invasion was incited due to its own ideology of objective idealism which you fervently espouse...



"In a ball of confusion.... shoulda never had me" - Tupac
 

IslamInevitable

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2009, 03:25:24 PM »
ITS A PARADOX THEY CALL REALITY

NON RELIGION IS  A RELIGION AS LONG AS YOU CONGREGATE AND ASSOCIATE WITH EACH OTHER ON THIS ESPOUSED BASIS
"In a ball of confusion.... shoulda never had me" - Tupac
 

Roccy

Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2009, 03:26:22 PM »
ITS SO HARD TO CHOOSE SIDES THOUGH... JEWS AND MUSLIMS HAVE SO MUCH HISTORY...
BUT THEY SHOW THEY HATE HEACH OTHER...


Jews and Muslims have lived together in peace for years...there is no hate on either side.

are u fuckin shrooming dogg?
lol look at palestine and israel...
obviously there is hate

man, stop looking at the through the NEWS.

before ISRAEL jews and muslims LIVED together for YEARS and YEARS in peace...

and in most parts of the world, they still do live together in peace.

btw..Palestine=1 country..cant talk for all muslims.
how it really goes down..
 

The Overfiend

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2009, 04:50:02 PM »
C'mon now, you know as I do: Islam is also a moral code! However, As I eluded to before, with the Saladin video, is that indeed within Islamic society at times in history (and today aswell in alot of modern Islamic authoritarian societies) there is also an objective approach to ideology and morals in these societies, and religion does not necessarily promote intolerance (it is my view that the true message within alot of religions is an approach to objective understanding). But my point was that in whatever societies where this is lacking, where there is no broad objective understanding and consideration in approach to freedom, morality, etc and where subjective views take priority; the result is that utilitarianism is often much more brutal and oppressive of the minority.


« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 05:27:39 PM by Illuminati Clique »
 

The Overfiend

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2009, 05:23:44 PM »
ITS A PARADOX THEY CALL REALITY

NON RELIGION IS  A RELIGION AS LONG AS YOU CONGREGATE AND ASSOCIATE WITH EACH OTHER ON THIS ESPOUSED BASIS


Which not many people actually do mind you. Rather, people who don't profess to any established religion get together for all manner of reasons that involve the actual living of life.  

The issue is not someone's belief, rather their degree of objectivity, tolerance and humility in the face of actually knowing nothing.


Most religions, including Islam, believe God is knowable, but also vastly unknown.

Nothing. Everything.





In this sense, maybe you can understand something of aethism and secularism.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 05:34:24 PM by Illuminati Clique »
 

IslamInevitable

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Re: Israel's Impunity
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2009, 10:06:28 PM »
yo illuminati, we gotta have this conversation face to face, cuz you convolute your words way too much for me to understand what you mean...
"In a ball of confusion.... shoulda never had me" - Tupac