go buy THE CHRONIC RELIT today everybody!

[Don Seer]

I remember making a thread asking how it could be proved whether or not someone actually produced a song from back then.  I remember some guy explicitly stating that Death Row was a well run business, where all employees made sure all contracts were correct, and made sure they got 100% credit and publishing for everything that they did.  Haha, yeah ok bro.  

 That "some guy" was me and that was nowhere near what I said. The context of the conversation was someone either saying or suggesting that Wideawake could just take Dre or Daz tracks and put someone else's name on it. I brought up the point of publishing because that's the road block. It's not about everyone getting fair credit or not. Here is one of my original statements on the subject from another thread:

Daz and the people you named got fucked on the publishing. Whether the publishing records are accurate is up for debate but record companies always keep them so it's not like they can just take Dre's credit off a song and sign it over to Daz or someone else. Artists might go in the studio and party and what not but there is always paperwork. Dre was co-owner of the company so I'm gonna call it a safe bet to say that any track he ever touched in any way over there went through the legal clearances with his publishing company. If there weren't publishing credits for it, it wouldn't have ended up in the auction in the first place.

If WideAwake has knowledge of what tracks Dre produced then trust me, Dre and his legal team do as well. It's one thing to take someone's credit when you are getting the publishing established but it's quite another to try and go back 15+ years later and try to steal it when the publishing credits are already legally established and have been circulated regularly. There's a reason why when you look at remixed Pac song credits, the artists and producers who appeared on the original track are still credited in the publishing even if their work is no longer on the track in question. Music companies are ruthless but nobody is an idiot. If someone produced a song for somebody else and they didn't get credit, it's probably because they signed a piece of paper waving whatever credit they would have got in exchange for money. You can't just outright steal somebody's work. If my vocals are on a song or my likeness is used in a movie or video, the company that is putting out needs legal permission to use it or I can sue their asses.

The misconception here seems to be that you think I believe nobody that ever worked with Death Row ever got fucked on their publishing. I'm not saying that at all. What I was implying was it would be backwards and idiotic to try and swap or swipe credit on songs after the publishing is taken care of. I think with Dre, it would be even that much more of a problem because the guy was already one of the most sought-after producers when he went over to Death Row and as any producer would have at that point had probably been handed his share of lawsuits by people saying they did this and did that.

Smoke enough bud was most likely either produced by Dre or Daz, and neither got credit, so I guess that completely throws your half ass theory out the window.

 Not including credits in the booklet doesn't automatically mean that the artist or producer didn't get credit on the publishing. It doesn't completetly throw anything out of the window. Not including publishing is one thing but listing false production credits is another.

Pretty much bang on point.

A fundamental "problem" with Death Row was that pretty much EVERY artist apart from Dr Dre was on Suge Publishing, they were never allowed to work with outside artists if  Suge didn't either manage or profiit off the publishing for as it meant Suge wouldn't get paid for it.

In fact, these kinds of publishing disputes are rife in the recording industry and Suge wasn't doing anything 'that' abnormal. He just knew the business.

[K.Dub]

Nah, I don't think I'll be buying this, not yet.

Bought Chronic two times already, and I'm not horny for those extra tracks.

[Don Seer]

i know what you mean... i've already got 3 copies (original cd, and vinyl, and the other remaster).. but the videos and the extra tracks did it for me. i cant resist.

[ikke]

Importing it

[The Phoenix]

i know what you mean... i've already got 3 copies (original cd, and vinyl, and the other remaster).. but the videos and the extra tracks did it for me. i cant resist.

Yeah, I'm gonna cop the relit album for the videos and extra tracks.

[Jimmy H.]

The DVD is actually worth the price alone for me.

[Okka]

The DVD is actually worth the price alone for me.

Yeah, true that. I still got the original album but i'll be gettin' this just for the DVD. "The Robbery" footage was tight.

[MarshColin]

Tried to get a good pick a of the nug sitting next to the album but my phone's camera is shitty.

[acgrundy]

I remember making a thread asking how it could be proved whether or not someone actually produced a song from back then.  I remember some guy explicitly stating that Death Row was a well run business, where all employees made sure all contracts were correct, and made sure they got 100% credit and publishing for everything that they did.  Haha, yeah ok bro. 

  That "some guy" was me and that was nowhere near what I said. The context of the conversation was someone either saying or suggesting that Wideawake could just take Dre or Daz tracks and put someone else's name on it. I brought up the point of publishing because that's the road block. It's not about everyone getting fair credit or not. Here is one of my original statements on the subject from another thread:

Daz and the people you named got fucked on the publishing. Whether the publishing records are accurate is up for debate but record companies always keep them so it's not like they can just take Dre's credit off a song and sign it over to Daz or someone else. Artists might go in the studio and party and what not but there is always paperwork. Dre was co-owner of the company so I'm gonna call it a safe bet to say that any track he ever touched in any way over there went through the legal clearances with his publishing company. If there weren't publishing credits for it, it wouldn't have ended up in the auction in the first place.

If WideAwake has knowledge of what tracks Dre produced then trust me, Dre and his legal team do as well. It's one thing to take someone's credit when you are getting the publishing established but it's quite another to try and go back 15+ years later and try to steal it when the publishing credits are already legally established and have been circulated regularly. There's a reason why when you look at remixed Pac song credits, the artists and producers who appeared on the original track are still credited in the publishing even if their work is no longer on the track in question. Music companies are ruthless but nobody is an idiot. If someone produced a song for somebody else and they didn't get credit, it's probably because they signed a piece of paper waving whatever credit they would have got in exchange for money. You can't just outright steal somebody's work. If my vocals are on a song or my likeness is used in a movie or video, the company that is putting out needs legal permission to use it or I can sue their asses.

The misconception here seems to be that you think I believe nobody that ever worked with Death Row ever got fucked on their publishing. I'm not saying that at all. What I was implying was it would be backwards and idiotic to try and swap or swipe credit on songs after the publishing is taken care of. I think with Dre, it would be even that much more of a problem because the guy was already one of the most sought-after producers when he went over to Death Row and as any producer would have at that point had probably been handed his share of lawsuits by people saying they did this and did that.

Smoke enough bud was most likely either produced by Dre or Daz, and neither got credit, so I guess that completely throws your half ass theory out the window.

  Not including credits in the booklet doesn't automatically mean that the artist or producer didn't get credit on the publishing. It doesn't completetly throw anything out of the window. Not including publishing is one thing but listing false production credits is another.

Pretty much bang on point.

A fundamental "problem" with Death Row was that pretty much EVERY artist apart from Dr Dre was on Suge Publishing, they were never allowed to work with outside artists if  Suge didn't either manage or profiit off the publishing for as it meant Suge wouldn't get paid for it.

In fact, these kinds of publishing disputes are rife in the recording industry and Suge wasn't doing anything 'that' abnormal. He just knew the business.

So you are saying that it is impossible that employees at death row made beats, possibly busting out several beats in a night, while partying extremely hard, not ever touching a piece of paperwork, got the beats recorded, and that was that?

How in the world can you prove who made that beat?  Simple:  You can't.  Vocals is one thing, but the beats is another.  You are going to tell me with all the crazy shit that went on at death row back in the day, Dre made sure the paperwork was done for every single beat that he did?  Yeah right.  This was 17 years ago.  Dre was 17 years younger.  He was a big partier and a lot crazier back then.  I guarantee that paperwork was not done for every single dr dre beat on those masters.

[Jimmy H.]

So you are saying that it is impossible that employees at death row made beats, possibly busting out several beats in a night, while partying extremely hard, not ever touching a piece of paperwork, got the beats recorded, and that was that?

How in the world can you prove who made that beat?  Simple:  You can't.  Vocals is one thing, but the beats is another.  You are going to tell me with all the crazy shit that went on at death row back in the day, Dre made sure the paperwork was done for every single beat that he did?  Yeah right.  This was 17 years ago.  Dre was 17 years younger.  He was a big partier and a lot crazier back then.  I guarantee that paperwork was not done for every single dr dre beat on those masters.

I'm sure that the ones who did get fucked up and make beats were probably the ones who ended up getting fucked on the publishing. Producing a record isn't like going into a booth and spitting a 16. Do you really think the engineers and mixers were in the studio doing shots of Hennesey and mixing down tracks? I'm sure there were problems with credit. In fact, I know there were. But let's say Soopafly did do this beat and Dre or Daz or DJ John T. Peckerchecker came in and claimed credit for it, they would do so in the publishing process.

Suge's big introduction to the game was over a publishing mishap with Vanilla Ice so he knows how the business is handled. While most people are under the impression that Suge got Vanilla's money by holding him over a balcony and extorting him, the fact is and many insiders have confirmed this: Suge Knight's artist, Chocolate, would have received the same amount from the settlement with Vanilla Ice regardless. In fact, as was proven by the Ruthless fiasco, any paperwork that Suge had with Ice's signature might have been voided on the grounds that it was signed under duress.  The key factor in Suge's management getting the money wasn't the paperwork that Suge had but rather the paperwork that Ice was missing. That being a form signed by Chocolate clearing the work he wrote for Vanilla Ice to be used on his album. Now, we're talking about writing here so shouldn't that be the same case as production? How can it be proven who wrote what?

The thing with publishing credit and people getting fucked is it's more like legalized stealing. I think publishing actually gives a bigger percentage of royalties to the person who wrote the song than the guy who performed it so vocals don't mean shit. The thing with Ruthless-Death Row-whatever label is not that Eazy, Suge, Dre, whoever is just coming in and saying, "You wrote or did this but we're taking the credit because you can't prove it". In most cases, it's more like sending a smooth talker to say "We'll give you this nice car or watch or whatever as a signing bonus but you need to sign this contract or we can't use your work." If the artist is naive enough or just isn't up on their business, it might work. If they think they are being taken care of by a label that is like family, they probably assume that once the money comes in, shit's gonna be alright. But it's business and if you don't have your deal in writing, you will probably get fucked. Chocolate could pretty much hold Vanilla Ice over a barrel because he wrote or helped write "Ice Ice Baby" and neither Ice's management or label bothered to make sure he signed off on it yet. Most of these producers who claim that either Suge, Dre, or whoever at their label took their credit, there's a reason why you haven't see many of them walk away with the kind of money Chocolate got or even gone to court in the first place. The reason being they probably signed a release giving Death Row the rights to their work for whatver type of compensation. Death Row in its heyday is a company that is selling albums that go four-to-five times platinum. If they're putting out material on their records without written permission from someone who contributed, they are legally fucked and can be held finanically liable. However, if the person in question signs a form that waives all credit in exchange for money or services, they could produce, mix, and play every damn instrument on that record and not get a cent or their name in the credits. It's very rarely about who actually did what. It's about who has the paper work, my friend. That's the whole point of having contracts in business. It doesn't mean the contracts are all fair and even. In most cases, they are completely the opposite. But if you think a multi million-dollar company spends all this money on studio time and then just invites a bunch of drunken gang bangers in to record and produce records and then waits for a sunny day to sort it all out, I think you might be wrong. It wasn't like Dre got production credit on all those songs because he woke up early on the day they were handing out credits and claimed them before the rest of the guys in the studio could get there. Or maybe he did. What do I know?

[Don Seer]

So you are saying that it is impossible that employees at death row made beats, possibly busting out several beats in a night, while partying extremely hard, not ever touching a piece of paperwork, got the beats recorded, and that was that?

How in the world can you prove who made that beat?  Simple:  You can't.  Vocals is one thing, but the beats is another.  You are going to tell me with all the crazy shit that went on at death row back in the day, Dre made sure the paperwork was done for every single beat that he did?  Yeah right.  This was 17 years ago.  Dre was 17 years younger.  He was a big partier and a lot crazier back then.  I guarantee that paperwork was not done for every single dr dre beat on those masters.

you gotta remember something.. while dre was on house arrest he had his in house studio, the artists and the parties came to him (resulting in his house burning down) but also resulting in all the work done at his house obviously being directly attributed to him (and some would argue whether he did it or not).

remember when dre splt suge allegedly went to dre's houes to get the master tapes, apart from the other artists sessions at can-am (i think) most a lot of dre related stuff was done at his house.

[Dre-Day]

just received mine