Muslims, don't depend on non-Muslim governments

[infinite59]

We need to make a desicion.  Do we want to be the one's riding in the bus, or driving the bus?

Islam has never been about going along for the ride.  By our manner, our way of life, we are truly unique and rightly guided.  We need to be the ones driving the bus.  We need to be the leaders of our countries and communities.  Right now, we are far behind.  Allah says that we must first change that which is in us and then he will change our enviroment and condition.

First we must establish our prayers, establish ourselves in our community.  Make the Muslim umma strong.  Be leaders amongst non-Muslims and beacons of light to guide those in the dark.  Then, when Allah says it is time, and only then, we will once again be able to choose and decide our own fate and destiny consistent with the deen of Allah.  Assalamulakum brothers.

[RAPQUAKE]

^^Yeah U muslims cannot just let someone else rule u huh? If ur not making all the "infidels" eat ur dust U will not be satisfied huh Prophet Infinite, or should I say Terrorist Leader-in-training  

[infinite59]

^^Yeah U muslims cannot just let someone else rule u huh? If ur not making all the "infidels" eat ur dust U will not be satisfied huh Prophet Infinite, or should I say Terrorist Leader-in-training  

Throughout history, there have been many Muslim governments who practiced tolerance.  Read the history of Muhammad (salli Alahu Alaiyhi wa salaam).  He enacted many peace treaties with non-Muslim groups, people and communities.  Muslims even protected non-Muslims human rights.  

You are a liar, a mischief maker, and I will not repeat myself again in this thread to anyone propagating and promoting lies.  The Qu'ran does not allow for Muslims to transgress upon the rights of non-Muslims.

[Ant]

^^Yeah U muslims cannot just let someone else rule u huh? If ur not making all the "infidels" eat ur dust U will not be satisfied huh Prophet Infinite, or should I say Terrorist Leader-in-training  

Throughout history, there have been many Muslim governments who practiced tolerance.  Read the history of Muhammad (salli Alahu Alaiyhi wa salaam).  He enacted many peace treaties with non-Muslim groups, people and communities.  Muslims even protected non-Muslims human rights.  

You are a liar, a mischief maker, and I will not repeat myself again in this thread to anyone propagating and promoting lies.  The Qu'ran does not allow for Muslims to transgress upon the rights of non-Muslims.

Perhaps then the Qu'ran should more clearly define what those "rights" are.  Up until recently I would have assumed that the right of innocent people to live was on there, but crashing a plane into the WTC kind of infringed on that right.  While you can say that those people aren't true muslims, do problems such as terrorism point to an underlying and unaddressed problem with your faith?  

It is easy to cast away blame, but by accepting it you gain a chance to learn and question.  Thereby improving your beliefs, and your own personal development.  

I beleive there are issues with all faiths that are commonly ignored for no one's benefit.  There is nothing to lose by simply questioning, except your arrogance.  Or in the unlucky event you choose to question a militant religious extremist your life.  But perhaps one day such situations can be avoided.

A problem cannot be addressed until it is identified.  Do we know all the causes of terrorism?  I think if we look at it objectively we would find faults on both sides.  

[Trauma-san]

Well, In America, we don't believe in a religion running the government.  I'm a member of a very powerful religion, and even we believe that the laws of the land should be decided by the government, not the church.  That's what's so beautiful about America.  You can live here and be muslim, and not have to worry about us imposing our christian beliefs on you.  (Of course, many other countries are like this, also, not just america).  I see NOTHING 'anti-muslim' about the government, so I dunno what the fuss is, lol... But whatever, man, If you want to leave, leave.  

[Maestro Minded]

^^Yeah U muslims cannot just let someone else rule u huh? If ur not making all the "infidels" eat ur dust U will not be satisfied huh Prophet Infinite, or should I say Terrorist Leader-in-training  

Throughout history, there have been many Muslim governments who practiced tolerance.  Read the history of Muhammad (salli Alahu Alaiyhi wa salaam).  He enacted many peace treaties with non-Muslim groups, people and communities.  Muslims even protected non-Muslims human rights.  

You are a liar, a mischief maker, and I will not repeat myself again in this thread to anyone propagating and promoting lies.  The Qu'ran does not allow for Muslims to transgress upon the rights of non-Muslims.

Perhaps then the Qu'ran should more clearly define what those "rights" are.  Up until recently I would have assumed that the right of innocent people to live was on there, but crashing a plane into the WTC kind of infringed on that right.  While you can say that those people aren't true muslims, do problems such as terrorism point to an underlying and unaddressed problem with your faith?  

It is easy to cast away blame, but by accepting it you gain a chance to learn and question.  Thereby improving your beliefs, and your own personal development.  

I beleive there are issues with all faiths that are commonly ignored for no one's benefit.  There is nothing to lose by simply questioning, except your arrogance.  Or in the unlucky event you choose to question a militant religious extremist your life.  But perhaps one day such situations can be avoided.

A problem cannot be addressed until it is identified.  Do we know all the causes of terrorism?  I think if we look at it objectively we would find faults on both sides.  

Qu'ran is not positive of killing innocent people... the terrorists are missunderstanding the Qu'ran.. Jihad is only ment soilders vs soilders... not terrorist vs innocent people

but you will never accept that, will you?? insted you will still claim that the muslim terrorists are the real muslims...

[Ant]

^^ hey I think you should reread what I wrote.

My point is that if your faith is being interpreted as a means of motivating mass destruction perhaps someone within your religion should stop and wonder why this is happening. Its not that terrorists are "true" muslims, its that they use your religion as a foundation for their actions.  Is there an underlying problem with the religion that is causing this to result?  There is no harm to come by considering it.  Likewise, I said I believe that current terrorist actions have developed because of mistakes the US has made.  

A situation cannot be resolved unless people are willing to even identify that there is a problem.  By giving consideration to whether or not your religion is somewhat at fault does not weaken your religion but strengthen it.

These people developed in muslim countries surrounded by muslim ideaologies.  What do you gain by dismissing the situation as someone else's fault?  Nothing.

[RAPQUAKE]

^^Yeah Ant says it well

[infinite59]

Well, In America, we don't believe in a religion running the government.  I'm a member of a very powerful religion, and even we believe that the laws of the land should be decided by the government, not the church.  That's what's so beautiful about America.  You can live here and be muslim, and not have to worry about us imposing our christian beliefs on you.  (Of course, many other countries are like this, also, not just america).  I see NOTHING 'anti-muslim' about the government, so I dunno what the fuss is, lol... But whatever, man, If you want to leave, leave.  

I understand the point that you are making.  You are saying that America is good because we are free to believe in what we want to believe.  And that if I don't like the way this country is run I should just pick up and take my million dollars I have set aside for travel to countries where I know no one, and just buy a house and live there.

The point that I am making is that while their may be chaos and disorder in the streets of America we can atleast establish Islam with our families and in our own lives and we can have order and spiritual, mental, social progress.  America is deteriorating and your blind if you don't see that.  But as Muslims we want to be an example to society that you don't have to destroy and debase yourself through drugs, alchohol, and other social narcotics.  That there is a better way of life out there.  And one day we hope to live in a world where choas, drugs, violence are not the order of the day.

[Trauma-san]

^^ You don't have to be muslim to have good values.  You can do that here in america no matter what religion you are.  

[Ant]

^^ You don't have to be muslim to have good values.  You can do that here in america no matter what religion you are.  

I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.  I appreciate my religious up bringing in that it provided an effective way to teach me values from an early age.  Many of which became a part of who I am.  But in saying that I am regarding religion more so as a tool to teach values than the ONLY means to instill them.  

[Trauma-san]

^^ For Shizzle  Religion teaches values, but it's not the only way to have values... but it is pretty effective, lol. I'm a latter day saint, and Utah, which is 70% LDS, has the highest birth rate in america, but the lowest teen pregnancy rate.  The largest percentage of 2 parent households; it has the lowest percentage of armed forces recruitment, but the highest percentage of college educated women, the highest charitible contribution rate, the highest average life expectancy rate, The lowest divorce rate, the lowest teen poverty rate; it's the state with the least spent per student on education, but yet has the highest test scores in the nation.  Stuff like that.  Peace~

[infinite59]

^^ You don't have to be muslim to have good values.  You can do that here in america no matter what religion you are.  

Trauma.  If America was 90% Mormons we wouldn't be having this discussion.  But whether you see it or not, America is deteriorating and debasing itself.  Like the father of sociology, Ibn Khaldun said, "societies have life expectancies, and those forces that caused it to flourish will reverse themselves and cause it to decline."

No, you don't have to be a Muslim to have good values.  But, America as a whole has terrible values.  Most Americans have abondoned their natural inclination towards their Creator.  

I am not saying that Muslims want to force anyone to be a Muslim.  As it says in the Qur'an, "There is no compulsion in religion."   But what we do want to do as Muslims is be an example to those in the dark.

[Trauma-san]

What are you saying, then?  Is this just another post where you talk to hear yourself talk?  Your post was not to depend on the government, because america is deteriorating and moral values are low... then I post that with the current government situation, it's very possible to have high moral values... then you post and say america has horrible values.  What are you saying?  

[infinite59]

What are you saying, then?  Is this just another post where you talk to hear yourself talk?  Your post was not to depend on the government, because america is deteriorating and moral values are low... then I post that with the current government situation, it's very possible to have high moral values... then you post and say america has horrible values.  What are you saying?  

Once again.  For the third time.  I'm saying that Muslims need to be leaders and set examples.  We need to be beacons of light for those in the dark.  We need to stand out with our unique morals and manners.  I won't repeat myself again.