Author Topic: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?  (Read 1323 times)

QuietTruth

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2009, 09:51:32 PM »
Si homie.

Quote from:  Definition
Faith - The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
 

Sparegeez

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2009, 09:56:10 PM »
Si homie.

Quote from:  Definition
Faith - The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.

that's just one lexical definition. What if one believed that god and life is so complex that not even a book is enough to guide you. to me faith is the belief that you will truly achieve happiness one day.. and a true happy person is someone who is highly moral. Would God punish that person?
 

The Overfiend

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2009, 09:56:37 PM »
 

Sparegeez

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2009, 09:58:17 PM »
not emotional just disrespected because you wouldn't answer my question. But if you really think I don't know what an atheist is, than yes you are an idiot
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2009, 10:02:49 PM »
Si homie.

Quote from:  Definition
Faith - The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.

that's just one lexical definition. What if one believed that god and life is so complex that not even a book is enough to guide you. to me faith is the belief that you will truly achieve happiness one day.. and a true happy person is someone who is highly moral. Would God punish that person?

Yeah but the quotes from The Qu'ran on Faith clearly mean God to me.

For example..

Quote
reject Faith in the Signs of Allah
Don't that sound like it means signs of a God. Proof of an existing God. God has sent signs to the Earth for us to believe in him. And if you have no faith in that...

I see what you mean about what Faith means though. In different contexts it means different thangs.
 

Sparegeez

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2009, 10:06:19 PM »
Si homie.

Quote from:  Definition
Faith - The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.

that's just one lexical definition. What if one believed that god and life is so complex that not even a book is enough to guide you. to me faith is the belief that you will truly achieve happiness one day.. and a true happy person is someone who is highly moral. Would God punish that person?

Yeah but the quotes from The Qu'ran on Faith clearly mean God to me.

For example..

Quote
reject Faith in the Signs of Allah
Don't that sound like it means signs of a God. Proof of an existing God. God has sent signs to the Earth for us to believe in him. And if you have no faith in that...

I see what you mean about what Faith means though. In different contexts it means different thangs.

It clearly means God to you because of your faith, but like I said earlier God could mean so many things.. in that context it could mean "the right way to live in order to be happy"
 

Shallow

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2009, 10:06:40 PM »
Yeah, fuck those idiots that go out of their way to have the word god taken out of shit or the 10 commandments removed from places and shit like that.

Im not gonna go out of my way. But yeah, I do think the word "god" shouldnt be associated with anything related to government.  It shouldnt be in school, shouldnt be on our money.  No more then it shoould say "In No God We Trust"

That's a tricky one for me. I've read up on separation of Church and State over the years and it's pretty clear to me that it was never set up to make sure people don't impose their values on others based on their beliefs, otherwise nothing would get accomplished. Every law is someone imposing their values on others based on beliefs. Just because Christianity isn't involved doesn't make it any different. What's the difference between someone saying abortion should be banned because a fetus is life and has a soul, and saying abortion should be legal because woman has the right to choose what happens to their bodies and a fetus doesn't have a soul, or souls aren't real?

The issue with Church and State and separating them was brought up on the basis that State cannot set up a Church, and in a lesser stance the Church cannot control the state. I say in a lesser stance because at the time of the US inception there was no Catholic Church running the show like it was in Europe, but there was a Great Britain running the Church and the founders of the US wanted to steer clear of that. They wanted the churches to be able to run themselves, and have many different churches rather than one National Church, like in England.

None of this has anything to do with kids in a school praying to God. If you don't believe in it then don't pray, and you should have the right not to pray. But you should not have the right to say the majority of kids cannot pray in my presence because I'm not Christian. Your freedoms are not being taken away by sitting quiet while the class prays, or saying nothing as the class says God in a pledge.

You could argue the odd child out would be ridiculed for the lack of participation, but that's bullshit. You either fake it or suffer the consequences of being different. I could be a parent that thinks recycling is sham, global warming is a sick twisted lie, income tax is unnecessary, trade-unions shouldn't exist. Everyone one of these ideas are denounced by the public schools and the very opposite is adopted. I could teach my son to adhere to all of my theories and I still have the right to send him to school. And then I'd have a choice to make. I'd either tell him to shut his mouth and go along with what the school tells him to do but not believe in it, or tell him to speak up and instruct the teacher that my son is not to participate in activities that go against my wishes, so long as there is an alternative to him not participating. I personally would choose the former, just to not make a scene, but at home I'd teach him otherwise and explain why I'm right and there wrong.

If I moved to Kuwait and every school was Muslim and the girls wore hijabs and kids prayed 5 times a day I'd tell my kids to fake it and not stand out but to understand that they are not Muslim. If that causes them to convert to Islam then I'm not really doing a good job of being a parent or a Christian, because the public school system is never and should never be as influential as the home. And when it is it is the home that is at fault.

In short, if a country like the US filled with Christians wants to admire God publicly, in state buildings and schools, they have the right to, so long as they don't govern the churches or allow the churches to govern them. The difference between the State and the Church is the State can kick you out of the State but not out of the Church and the Church can kick you out of the Church but not out of the State. The State cannot till the Church how to pray and the Church cannot tell the State how to govern. The People can however choose to be governed according to their beliefs by voting as such and if the majority votes as such then that is not a matter of the Church joining the State. They are still separate entities in those cases.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2009, 10:09:07 PM »
Si homie.

Quote from:  Definition
Faith - The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.

that's just one lexical definition. What if one believed that god and life is so complex that not even a book is enough to guide you. to me faith is the belief that you will truly achieve happiness one day.. and a true happy person is someone who is highly moral. Would God punish that person?

Yeah but the quotes from The Qu'ran on Faith clearly mean God to me.

For example..

Quote
reject Faith in the Signs of Allah
Don't that sound like it means signs of a God. Proof of an existing God. God has sent signs to the Earth for us to believe in him. And if you have no faith in that...

I see what you mean about what Faith means though. In different contexts it means different thangs.

It clearly means God to you because of your faith, but like I said earlier God could mean so many things.. in that context it could mean "the right way to live in order to be happy"

Yeah, excatly, but in the context of how it's worded, faith = belief in Allah.

Quote from: The Table, The Table Spread
5:57. O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2009, 10:12:30 PM »
Yeah, fuck those idiots that go out of their way to have the word god taken out of shit or the 10 commandments removed from places and shit like that.

Im not gonna go out of my way. But yeah, I do think the word "god" shouldnt be associated with anything related to government.  It shouldnt be in school, shouldnt be on our money.  No more then it shoould say "In No God We Trust"

That's a tricky one for me. I've read up on separation of Church and State over the years and it's pretty clear to me that it was never set up to make sure people don't impose their values on others based on their beliefs, otherwise nothing would get accomplished. Every law is someone imposing their values on others based on beliefs. Just because Christianity isn't involved doesn't make it any different. What's the difference between someone saying abortion should be banned because a fetus is life and has a soul, and saying abortion should be legal because woman has the right to choose what happens to their bodies and a fetus doesn't have a soul, or souls aren't real?

The issue with Church and State and separating them was brought up on the basis that State cannot set up a Church, and in a lesser stance the Church cannot control the state. I say in a lesser stance because at the time of the US inception there was no Catholic Church running the show like it was in Europe, but there was a Great Britain running the Church and the founders of the US wanted to steer clear of that. They wanted the churches to be able to run themselves, and have many different churches rather than one National Church, like in England.

None of this has anything to do with kids in a school praying to God. If you don't believe in it then don't pray, and you should have the right not to pray. But you should not have the right to say the majority of kids cannot pray in my presence because I'm not Christian. Your freedoms are not being taken away by sitting quiet while the class prays, or saying nothing as the class says God in a pledge.

You could argue the odd child out would be ridiculed for the lack of participation, but that's bullshit. You either fake it or suffer the consequences of being different. I could be a parent that thinks recycling is sham, global warming is a sick twisted lie, income tax is unnecessary, trade-unions shouldn't exist. Everyone one of these ideas are denounced by the public schools and the very opposite is adopted. I could teach my son to adhere to all of my theories and I still have the right to send him to school. And then I'd have a choice to make. I'd either tell him to shut his mouth and go along with what the school tells him to do but not believe in it, or tell him to speak up and instruct the teacher that my son is not to participate in activities that go against my wishes, so long as there is an alternative to him not participating. I personally would choose the former, just to not make a scene, but at home I'd teach him otherwise and explain why I'm right and there wrong.

If I moved to Kuwait and every school was Muslim and the girls wore hijabs and kids prayed 5 times a day I'd tell my kids to fake it and not stand out but to understand that they are not Muslim. If that causes them to convert to Islam then I'm not really doing a good job of being a parent or a Christian, because the public school system is never and should never be as influential as the home. And when it is it is the home that is at fault.

In short, if a country like the US filled with Christians wants to admire God publicly, in state buildings and schools, they have the right to, so long as they don't govern the churches or allow the churches to govern them. The difference between the State and the Church is the State can kick you out of the State but not out of the Church and the Church can kick you out of the Church but not out of the State. The State cannot till the Church how to pray and the Church cannot tell the State how to govern. The People can however choose to be governed according to their beliefs by voting as such and if the majority votes as such then that is not a matter of the Church joining the State. They are still separate entities in those cases.
Real talk in that muthafuckin' post.
 

Sparegeez

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2009, 10:12:45 PM »
we're going in circles man lol.

What I'm trynna say is that God might just be a metaphor for something deeper than a person telling people what's right and wrong
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2009, 10:14:20 PM »
we're going in circles man lol.

What I'm trynna say is that God might just be a metaphor for something deeper than a person telling people what's right and wrong
Lol, I see what ya sayin' though.
 

The Overfiend

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2009, 10:28:33 PM »
Quote from:  Definition
Faith - The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
not emotional just disrespected because you wouldn't answer my question. But if you really think I don't know what an atheist is, than yes you are an idiot

Ah I see. Relax.  ;)


Si homie.

that's just one lexical definition. What if one believed that god and life is so complex that not even a book is enough to guide you. to me faith is the belief that you will truly achieve happiness one day.. and a true happy person is someone who is highly moral. Would God punish that person?



I would say that your line of belief is close to atheism. Atheists just don't believe in deities is all.  Its not like Atheists don't believe in anything, they just have discerned that a good way to live life evolves out of experience, knowledge and wisdom, rather than superstition or blind faith. Some streams of Buddhism, and also Zen Buddhism do not advocate a belief in deities either. As Buddhism does not advocate a belief in god/s, it can be described as atheistic. Most faiths have atheistic aspects.

One of his students asked Buddha, "Are you the messiah?"
"No", answered Buddha.
"Then are you a healer?"
"No", Buddha replied.
"Then are you a teacher?" the student persisted.
"No, I am not a teacher."
"Then what are you?" asked the student, exasperated.
"I am awake", Buddha replied.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 10:32:03 PM by Illuminati Clique »
 

Sparegeez

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2009, 10:39:29 PM »
Quote from:  Definition
Faith - The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
not emotional just disrespected because you wouldn't answer my question. But if you really think I don't know what an atheist is, than yes you are an idiot

Ah I see. Relax.  ;)


Si homie.

that's just one lexical definition. What if one believed that god and life is so complex that not even a book is enough to guide you. to me faith is the belief that you will truly achieve happiness one day.. and a true happy person is someone who is highly moral. Would God punish that person?



I would say that your line of belief is close to atheism. Atheists just don't believe in deities is all.  Its not like Atheists don't believe in anything, they just have discerned that a good way to live life evolves out of experience, knowledge and wisdom, rather than superstition or blind faith. Some streams of Buddhism, and also Zen Buddhism do not advocate a belief in deities either. As Buddhism does not advocate a belief in god/s, it can be described as atheistic. Most faiths have atheistic aspects. Now if, God appeared directly to an atheist then that would be another story, and an atheist would like to think they would question such a deity if it did appear. In absence of such. atheists find profound understanding through simply experiencing and witnessing life.

One of his students asked Buddha, "Are you the messiah?"
"No", answered Buddha.
"Then are you a healer?"
"No", Buddha replied.
"Then are you a teacher?" the student persisted.
"No, I am not a teacher."
"Then what are you?" asked the student, exasperated.
"I am awake", Buddha replied.

hmm that's quite interesting. I think Imma do some research on Buddha now that you've shown me that dialogue. But I don't believe I'm an atheist. I might be according to your operational definition but I think my belief in the bible and afterlife contradicts what an atheist believes in. I believe all the holy books have something holy in them, except the only one I've ever known is the bible. Although I don't take what the bible says as literal as how most Catholics do. Words can be very ambiguous, they can mean the total opposite of what one think they mean. I believe you can only understand certain parts of the bible until you have the wisdom to read deeper than just between the lines. The bible will forever be teaching me, until the day I die.
 

The Overfiend

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2009, 11:01:11 PM »
Word.


My view is it all relates. We all separate units of thought and consciousness, inevitably we clash with each other. Faiths are descriptions from different perspectives of existence, we all seeing and living on the same hurtling rock through space.
 

The Overfiend

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Re: Why do Atheists seem to get on Christaianity and not Islam?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2009, 11:04:56 PM »
Though each was partly in the right,

And all were in the wrong!



-'The Blind Men and the Elephant'