Author Topic: To truly repent?  (Read 679 times)

virtuoso

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2009, 07:55:55 PM »

The alternatives are terrible either way. Drug dealers are part of reality, its not like Western drug dealers are anything to be ashamed of, in a manner of speaking. The reality is even if the Taliban are there, they will continue to supply. Its not like either side will cut out the distribution or is a better distributor and will not flood the market so much, because that can simply change without control of the flow.

Statistics speak for themselves, since the Taliban has been deposed conservatively opium flooding the west has increased over 1000%. My judgement on immorality is the one you are choosing to defend on the one hand and ignore on the other, the prison population is loaded with drug dealers and yet these scum bags are the biggest drug dealers of them all and no one seems to care. So you are simply ignoring a fact, which makes the line about one not being a better distributor than the other frankly ridiculous.

 At least this way we can choose who makes the money: which Afghan warlord gets the guap, instead of allowing the Taliban to take complete income. At least this way we can control and influence. In this day and age, nobody wants an organization like the Taliban clocking Afghanistan's income, not China, not the US, not Russia, not Australia.

Again this is ignoring the actual mechanics, the bent war lords are being paid with proceeds from the drug dealing. You seem to be fixated by the taliban and this seems to be driven by the accounts you have heard but we don't hear about the evils of the northern alliance because that would undermine the excuse they use to be there.

Otherwise you are not realistically judging and weighing the evils against one-another; its simply juvenile to say 'fuck them all lets withdraw because the West is evil and so is the Taliban'.
It's juvenile to ignore something which does not fit snugly in That point of view is frankly childish and does not realistically consider the alternatives. The alternatives are that they leave afghanistan but they won't there was no justifiable reason for their very presence in Afghanistan, it was all based around that sick fairy story called 911.

 Its is also moronic and cliche to say 'these people don't care about the Afghani people'. The influence the military has is limited.The military can do little for the Afghan society without security and in a lot of ways even that has it's limits until Afghan society changes, but at least they have a chance to change this way.
There you go, speaking about the military when there are more mercenaries on the ground than anyone else. You are right, the influence of the military pales into comparison with that of the private contractors. Why offer security when you want chaos? chaos ensures internal loggerheads and thus ironically more security is demanded, it's a sick game but someones gotta do it.


The international coalition has been building heaps of stuff for the people there like mosques and schools to develop goodwill and 'win hearts and minds'  but the people sadly dismantle the shit and steal the materials to renovate their own houses and to sell to each other.  
You just said I was cliche and there you go with cliche and base level 101, how many of those mosques and schools were demolished in the first place by rockets, grenades and all that good stuff. Most homes even in the major cities are without electricity still, this despite the fact that international contractors are there, there is a huge huge black hole in the rebuilding funds, they are no better off, so examples of rebuilding is just bullshit, give with one hand and take 5 hand with the other. The invaders have come they have now destroyed and they have pillaged and those in the firing line are the unquestioning, naive troops, not the real bastards.


This is why we need to change their thinking and win hearts and minds using different methods: asymmetric psychological warfare mutherfuckers. That is why we need to pound them with globalized culture: arcade games, porn, chewing gum, food items, basketballs, sport, music, block-buster movies, games, etc. Like what China is doing/has done with Tibet culturally, like the effect that the USA had on the Philippines after WWII. Until it is so pervasive the Taliban will realize that socially it is fighting a losing battle as globalized culture and social values begin to pervade throughout Afghani life. From there the people's thinking and psychology will increasingly change and they will begin to see a vision of the future without the Taliban and more intertwined with the international coalition.

You mean like they have done in South America, in Kosovo, in Yugoslavia? or perhaps you mean in Iraq, or in Russia? and the list goes on. The war on terrorism is one humongous racket and what's more as we get more and more fucked by these bastards, it becomes more and more obvious to even the most ardent and trusting of government supports. However of course, that will not stop them because Afghanistan has key vital resources and geopolitical importance to it.  .


« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 08:01:06 PM by virtuoso »
 

The Overfiend

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2009, 03:19:31 AM »
In terms of the drugs I'm not defending anything in terms of morality, I never shaped the drug issue as a 'moral' argument, because it is pointless as the whole trade is immoral.



The issue of the drug trade in Afghanistan isn't an issue of morality, or about ignoring the fact that the supply continues and has increased a '1000%' or whatever, because flooding the market means nothing, all it does is lower the price. Motherfuckers are going to be going to jail either way if the pipe is flowing hard or just at a trickle. The real issue is who: who controls and supplies and who gets the guap. Morality and levels of distribution have nothing to do with it. Its about who controls the supply in Afghanistan.
If you can't stop it you may as well control it and use that power. No country on the face of the earth has ever been able to stop the drug trade.

What I am proposing with the cultural bombardment of Snickers bars, movies and chewing gum, etc does not really have any precedent, the examples you listed were more based along military might rather than induced cultural homogenization. It is something that hasn't really been tried in any war the US has been involved with. However it is something that happens as a result of globalization, I'm proposing a beef up of the process to help create a demos in Afghanistan. They need to develop a demos in Afghanistan, once they established one in Iraq shit began to get a lot better (with the Shiites, Kurds, Sunnis having representation in the government and defined jurisdiction). But in Afghanistan there is the opportunity to do something different not based along sectarian lines.
 

Anyway, I am aware of your position on these matters and I wasn't specifically seeking your opinion when I made this thread. I value your opinion, but frankly it pisses me off I can't make a post about ideas on what to do in Afghanistan save pulling out without being screamed down by Alex Jones. Its annoying but not surprising that opinion is so vastly polarized. They went about selling and making all these wars the wrong way.

PEACE.


demos [ˈdiːmɒs]
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the people of a nation regarded as a political unit
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) Rare the common people; masses
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 06:29:36 AM by Illuminati Clique »
 

virtuoso

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2009, 08:16:53 AM »
In terms of the drugs I'm not defending anything in terms of morality, I never shaped the drug issue as a 'moral' argument, because it is pointless as the whole trade is immoral.

The issue of the drug trade in Afghanistan isn't an issue of morality, or about ignoring the fact that the supply continues and has increased a '1000%' or whatever, because flooding the market means nothing, all it does is lower the price. Motherfuckers are going to be going to jail either way if the pipe is flowing hard or just at a trickle. The real issue is who: who controls and supplies and who gets the guap. Morality and levels of distribution have nothing to do with it. Its about who controls the supply in Afghanistan.
If you can't stop it you may as well control it and use that power. No country on the face of the earth has ever been able to stop the drug trade.

Right, so instead they then call for more money, more resources, more man power, harder laws to combat this war on drugs. So the level of product coming in makes a huge difference.

What I am proposing with the cultural bombardment of Snickers bars, movies and chewing gum, etc does not really have any precedent, the examples you listed were more based along military might rather than induced cultural homogenization.
It's not about freeing the people though and flooding them with culture when they themselves are piss poor aint going to help them. The poor countries are designed to stay poor that is my whole point and it's proven time and time again.

It is something that hasn't really been tried in any war the US has been involved with. However it is something that happens as a result of globalization, I'm proposing a beef up of the process to help create a demos in Afghanistan. They need to develop a demos in Afghanistan, once they established one in Iraq shit began to get a lot better (with the Shiites, Kurds, Sunnis having representation in the government and defined jurisdiction).

Again this is just media spin, if you remember when Paul Bremer got appointed as the task force leader for Iraq and set about creating a new constitution but this was just yet another stunt, why would Iraq need a new constitution? they already had done, a fully functioning one and yet they said fuck you it's happening, the constitution allowed them to say we don't care about your nationalised industries, we are shutting that down and we are going to create the frame work for the contractors to take all of the rebuilding work. So the iraqis although pissed off were actually buoyed about this promise of democracy and indeed were busy setting forth their own vision of Iraq, protested were at first welcomes as the hall mark of a new free Iraq, but then they shut that shit down when they realised it was spreading like wild fire. Nothing is a lot better in Iraq, they have royally fucked the people there, nothing works, unemployment is soaring, cancer rates are soaring, electricity barely features outside of the fortified zone. You seem to forget that Iraq had a terrific health system before the invasion of their country, you seem to forget that they deliberately disbanded the entire army to create the ensuing chaos.


 But in Afghanistan there is the opportunity to do something different not based along sectarian lines.

Things parallel elsewhere, see above
 
Anyway, I am aware of your position on these matters and I wasn't specifically seeking your opinion when I made this thread. I value your opinion, but frankly it pisses me off I can't make a post about ideas on what to do in Afghanistan save pulling out without being screamed down by Alex Jones.

Lol first of all i don't do any screaming, secondly most people in the UK want to see a pullout, this is not a minority view. Thirdly I know you were not seeking my opinion but since this is a forum, the likelihood is I was going to comment on it and it's the very nature of a forum that I should challenge what you are saying and vice versa.


 Its annoying but not surprising that opinion is so vastly polarized. They went about selling and making all these wars the wrong way.

PEACE.

The problem is that you express that opinion from a position of morality but unfortunately they see an end result and the end in their opinion seems to always justify the means.


demos [ˈdiːmɒs]
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the people of a nation regarded as a political unit
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) Rare the common people; masses
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 09:33:13 AM by virtuoso »
 

The Overfiend

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2009, 04:28:28 PM »
You make good points.


Notice how I'm trying to consider what should be done though, without withdrawing.


But yes as you said its proven time and time again. Politicians endeavor for us to hope in them, but history teaches us to be cynical.


 

virtuoso

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2009, 04:43:19 PM »
You make good points.


Notice how I'm trying to consider what should be done though, without withdrawing.


But yes as you said its proven time and time again. Politicians endeavor for us to hope in them, but history teaches us to be cynical.

Listen my friend, I am not attacking you personally, as I just said, you come at this from a moral position and you want to see some good being done, I understand and appreciate that but if we don't learn from history, then history keeps on repeating itself.



 

ThaRealSupreme

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2009, 04:13:18 PM »
Notice dudes who have no respect for women like rapists and pimps ( some pimps hand gestures look real gay and they sure do like to keep their fingernails done) They have the same problem because really they're homosexuals but are too ashamed to show it. They feel it makes them powerful by overpowering women when they were physically created stronger but not psychologically stronger nor strong at heart. What the world teaches that makes u a real man is some bull shit now days and a lot of men grow up in single parent homes with just a mother. Too much bitch assness is polluting this world and it's a man's world lol.
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QuietTruth

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2009, 05:22:19 PM »
Notice dudes who have no respect for women like rapists and pimps ( some pimps hand gestures look real gay and they sure do like to keep their fingernails done) They have the same problem because really they're homosexuals but are too ashamed to show it. They feel it makes them powerful by overpowering women when they were physically created stronger but not psychologically stronger nor strong at heart. What the world teaches that makes u a real man is some bull shit now days and a lot of men grow up in single parent homes with just a mother. Too much bitch assness is polluting this world and it's a man's world lol.
LMAO about the pimps. I always thought the same shit. Confusing. Like it's 'manly' and 'hood' to have woman-mannerisms. The fuck..

But I think it's a good look for a kid growing up in a single parent home to be woman-minded. Thats a positive. But I don't how alotta these niggas don't act that way and disrespect the females. You right son. Too much fuckin' bitch-asses. Punk asses, ha ha. ;D
 

ThaRealSupreme

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2009, 06:51:26 PM »
Notice dudes who have no respect for women like rapists and pimps ( some pimps hand gestures look real gay and they sure do like to keep their fingernails done) They have the same problem because really they're homosexuals but are too ashamed to show it. They feel it makes them powerful by overpowering women when they were physically created stronger but not psychologically stronger nor strong at heart. What the world teaches that makes u a real man is some bull shit now days and a lot of men grow up in single parent homes with just a mother. Too much bitch assness is polluting this world and it's a man's world lol.
LMAO about the pimps. I always thought the same shit. Confusing. Like it's 'manly' and 'hood' to have woman-mannerisms. The fuck..

But I think it's a good look for a kid growing up in a single parent home to be woman-minded. Thats a positive. But I don't how alotta these niggas don't act that way and disrespect the females. You right son. Too much fuckin' bitch-asses. Punk asses, ha ha. ;D

Right, it is a good thing and you'd think it'll make them better.
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QuietTruth

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Re: To truly repent?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2009, 07:27:48 PM »
Real talk.