Author Topic: Evolution  (Read 2173 times)

Fraxxx

Re: Evolution
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2009, 11:40:47 PM »
You just don't understand... :grumpy:
i don´t need any medicate shit im 100 normal.
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2009, 12:49:55 AM »
Rap, let me say it again and I hope you understand me this time, faith with regards to religion has nothing to do with what I mean by faith. Faith and evidence go hand in hand. The very reason criminals take or don't take pleas is based on it. If you have video of a man committing a crime and his face, and voice are easily recognizable you have a guilty plea because there is no argument against the crime. If you have an eye witness, and a motive it still isn't the same as a video. It is still based on faith that what is logical is most likely. There was a man released from prison a few years ago here in Canada for the murder and abduction of a young girl. All the evidence, science, and logic, pointed to him. The jury had faith in it. Science changed. He was released. It was logical, it was evident, but it was wrong. Why was he put in jail? Because of faith. Faith in DNA testing. Faith in eye witnesses. None of them saw him kill the girl, but they believed he did. And all the logic agreed with it.


Faith occurs when you haven't seen it yourself. And in science or in law faith works out just fine most of the time, but it's still faith to some degree. I don't believe two objects of differing mass fall at the same rate. I see it, try it and know it. I don't see, try, and know, new species evolving from completely different species. I believe it. There is a difference. So stop equating human evolution to gravity.

You seem to want to use the word faith in a way which isn't congruent with the way people use it. No one has ever used the word faith to describe something that has solid evidence behind it. I'm not going to play your game. Belief in logic and having faith in something are not the same. You can google faith vs. belief to learn the difference.

As far as species evolving from different species, that is fact. And I was equating evolution in general to gravity, because we know evolution occurs.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 01:03:04 AM by rapsodie, the troll prince »
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2009, 01:13:52 AM »
Aight, Technical Timothy

Gotta try to use that one on someone tomorrow lol


 :D


Well I guess I got into something else here, but I will say that the more I learn about evolution, the more I am led to believe that there is something that created this.  Things are almost too complex to insist that it "just happened".  Now I don't think whatever created everything is some church's idea of God, but I think there is someone/thing that is responsible.
Real fuckin' got damn talk.


And who don't agree wit evolution?? We don't believe we EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. How Christians reject the idea of advancing? We know we evolve. Look at fuckin' race got damn it. Evolution in the context of 'ape to man' is what we reject. In THAT context of evolution.

no one says we evolved from apes. Its that we evolved from a common ancestor.

also, monkey isn't the same as ape.

Aight, Technical Timothy, but wasn't you the other nigga in that thread implying you believe we evolved from an ape??

No...the theory is that we and apes evolved from the same thing. I'm going to use a word you like to use. Coincidence. Do you think its a coincidence that we are physically so similarly to apes? What about all fossils that have been found of Homo Erectus, Neanderthal, etc, other intelligent humanoids? None of this supports your belief that humans were "created".
So who created the apes?

Like I and others on this board have already said, pick up a book. It ain't my job to explain evolution to someone who isn't willing to learn beyond what they have been conditioned for.

Looks like you're stumped. Aww, damn.

I'm not the one who's stumped. Google the shit. it ain't my job to do your research for you. You shouldn't be involved in the conversation if you don't understand what's being discussed.

You sound like a got damn broken record. Nigga please. I understand. You must just not understand my vocabulary. Mmmm k. I'm followin' youuuuuuuu Rapsodie, followin' youuuuuuuu, and not in that way so fallback. I'm followin' your conversation. What I'd like to know is how ev'rybody just skipped over M Dogg's post. Hmmm?? Why didn't nobody challenge what he said? Ah, maybe he just made a good point.

If I sound like a broken record, its because you aren't listening. DO SOME RESEARCH.

your questions don't make any sense. Its not the vocabulary, its that you don't know what you're talking about. Who created the apes? You're the one who is saying they were created, not me. If you mean what apes evolved from, you can google an article about ape evolution and find out easily. You can't just come into a discussion and expect other people to explain to you what is being discussed.

What I want to know is how you can swear that we aren't related at all to apes, when you haven't even taken the time to do any research into the topic.
I was simply replying to you with my 'who created apes'.

You said you believe in the theory that we and apes evolved from the same thang, and I'm askin' you, what created that thang? Shit just can't appear. So we formed from organisms? Well how did the organisms get here?

I assume by this you essentially mean how did the universe start? There are various theories, I'm sure you know about them. None of them can be proven obviously. However, this doesn't help your argument in the slightest. If something hasn't been proven, that doesn't give you a good reason to come up with another illogical reason. You can ask the question how did life first start, but what in the world would lead you to conclude it was created by an all powerful deity? That's using the same logic as this:

If I show some Amazonas people who are on stone age-level a TV they'll think it was magic.

Look QT, you can believe whatever you want to believe, all I want you to admit is that you rely on absolute faith. Because you are arguing this like your belief is more logical, when obviously it isn't.
 

Sikotic™

Re: Evolution
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2009, 02:47:06 AM »
People who try to turn evolution vs. creation into some kind of retarded east coast vs. west coast beef when the idea of evolution doesn't even support or hurt religion are even worse and should be treated accordingly.
The first setence is outright harsh. What happened to "respecting other people's beliefs"? Should only religious believers be held to that standard? Props to you (for the second sentence) and MDogg for speaking the truth.
The first sentence is not harsh. At least we could take a group of useless people and make them useful.

It's not about beliefs, its about facts. If I tell you the sky is blue, take you outside, point upwards at the blue sky and you say, "I dunno.......it could be red or yellow", then that would make you a fucking moron......by choice.

I'm all for respecting people's beliefs as long as it seems somewhat logical or as long as there isn't any concrete evidence against it. Somebody who is unwilling to accept proven fact usually will never do anything but burden you and me somehow.
Just like it use to be a fact that the Earth was falt or that the Sun revolved around the Earth. :P Facts change, certainty is nonexistent.
C'mon Ted. You're really gonna make a comparison of something people believed almost 700 years ago when we didn't have a fraction of the technology we have now. Not a fraction of understanding?

And certain civilizations understood the earth was round hundreds of years before Europe did.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2009, 09:33:33 AM »
Aight, Technical Timothy

Gotta try to use that one on someone tomorrow lol


 :D


Well I guess I got into something else here, but I will say that the more I learn about evolution, the more I am led to believe that there is something that created this.  Things are almost too complex to insist that it "just happened".  Now I don't think whatever created everything is some church's idea of God, but I think there is someone/thing that is responsible.
Real fuckin' got damn talk.


And who don't agree wit evolution?? We don't believe we EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. How Christians reject the idea of advancing? We know we evolve. Look at fuckin' race got damn it. Evolution in the context of 'ape to man' is what we reject. In THAT context of evolution.

no one says we evolved from apes. Its that we evolved from a common ancestor.

also, monkey isn't the same as ape.

Aight, Technical Timothy, but wasn't you the other nigga in that thread implying you believe we evolved from an ape??

No...the theory is that we and apes evolved from the same thing. I'm going to use a word you like to use. Coincidence. Do you think its a coincidence that we are physically so similarly to apes? What about all fossils that have been found of Homo Erectus, Neanderthal, etc, other intelligent humanoids? None of this supports your belief that humans were "created".
So who created the apes?

Like I and others on this board have already said, pick up a book. It ain't my job to explain evolution to someone who isn't willing to learn beyond what they have been conditioned for.

Looks like you're stumped. Aww, damn.

I'm not the one who's stumped. Google the shit. it ain't my job to do your research for you. You shouldn't be involved in the conversation if you don't understand what's being discussed.

You sound like a got damn broken record. Nigga please. I understand. You must just not understand my vocabulary. Mmmm k. I'm followin' youuuuuuuu Rapsodie, followin' youuuuuuuu, and not in that way so fallback. I'm followin' your conversation. What I'd like to know is how ev'rybody just skipped over M Dogg's post. Hmmm?? Why didn't nobody challenge what he said? Ah, maybe he just made a good point.

If I sound like a broken record, its because you aren't listening. DO SOME RESEARCH.

your questions don't make any sense. Its not the vocabulary, its that you don't know what you're talking about. Who created the apes? You're the one who is saying they were created, not me. If you mean what apes evolved from, you can google an article about ape evolution and find out easily. You can't just come into a discussion and expect other people to explain to you what is being discussed.

What I want to know is how you can swear that we aren't related at all to apes, when you haven't even taken the time to do any research into the topic.
I was simply replying to you with my 'who created apes'.

You said you believe in the theory that we and apes evolved from the same thang, and I'm askin' you, what created that thang? Shit just can't appear. So we formed from organisms? Well how did the organisms get here?

I assume by this you essentially mean how did the universe start? There are various theories, I'm sure you know about them. None of them can be proven obviously. However, this doesn't help your argument in the slightest. If something hasn't been proven, that doesn't give you a good reason to come up with another illogical reason. You can ask the question how did life first start, but what in the world would lead you to conclude it was created by an all powerful deity? That's using the same logic as this:

If I show some Amazonas people who are on stone age-level a TV they'll think it was magic.

Look QT, you can believe whatever you want to believe, all I want you to admit is that you rely on absolute faith. Because you are arguing this like your belief is more logical, when obviously it isn't.

Well. At least you hearing me out. I think.

Okay I rely on my faith, but it's sensible faith, wit at the least, reasonable evidence. There's thangs in The Bible that corroborates our life, even the start of our life! Even in The Quran, there's shit corroborated by Science. It's not some book saying we were dropped outta the sky by some stork. It says we formed from dust off the ground. Now if you do just a little thinkin' maybe that could mean THAT organism that you think started us all. Who knows. See you believe man was started by chance, and I believe reason. And the logical motive for that? Becuz life just can't form by accident. And you know this. Don't you? It ain't like it's completely illogical to believe in God, like ya'll acting like. Let's be real.
 

Shallow

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2009, 09:43:43 AM »
Rap, let me say it again and I hope you understand me this time, faith with regards to religion has nothing to do with what I mean by faith. Faith and evidence go hand in hand. The very reason criminals take or don't take pleas is based on it. If you have video of a man committing a crime and his face, and voice are easily recognizable you have a guilty plea because there is no argument against the crime. If you have an eye witness, and a motive it still isn't the same as a video. It is still based on faith that what is logical is most likely. There was a man released from prison a few years ago here in Canada for the murder and abduction of a young girl. All the evidence, science, and logic, pointed to him. The jury had faith in it. Science changed. He was released. It was logical, it was evident, but it was wrong. Why was he put in jail? Because of faith. Faith in DNA testing. Faith in eye witnesses. None of them saw him kill the girl, but they believed he did. And all the logic agreed with it.


Faith occurs when you haven't seen it yourself. And in science or in law faith works out just fine most of the time, but it's still faith to some degree. I don't believe two objects of differing mass fall at the same rate. I see it, try it and know it. I don't see, try, and know, new species evolving from completely different species. I believe it. There is a difference. So stop equating human evolution to gravity.

You seem to want to use the word faith in a way which isn't congruent with the way people use it. No one has ever used the word faith to describe something that has solid evidence behind it. I'm not going to play your game. Belief in logic and having faith in something are not the same. You can google faith vs. belief to learn the difference.

As far as species evolving from different species, that is fact. And I was equating evolution in general to gravity, because we know evolution occurs.


I don't care what google says. Webster says Faith is belief and Belief's first synonym is Faith. In fact the main difference is that faith is usually spoken with certitude, while belief isn't. Your stupidity is making me upset. Just show me the fact and proof that the homo-sapien evolved from the homo-erectus like I can show you the the fact and proof that two objects of different mass fall at the same rate and I'll shut up. Because that is what we are talking about, not micro-evolution, or evolution in plants or insects. So stop trying to sway the argument to something I am not opposing or questioning. Just answer my questions and shut me up. Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same. You fucking idiot.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 09:50:59 AM by Shallow »
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2009, 01:11:06 PM »
I don't care what google says. Webster says Faith is belief and Belief's first synonym is Faith. In fact the main difference is that faith is usually spoken with certitude, while belief isn't. Your stupidity is making me upset. Just show me the fact and proof that the homo-sapien evolved from the homo-erectus like I can show you the the fact and proof that two objects of different mass fall at the same rate and I'll shut up. Because that is what we are talking about, not micro-evolution, or evolution in plants or insects. So stop trying to sway the argument to something I am not opposing or questioning. Just answer my questions and shut me up. Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same. You fucking idiot.


You don't care what the actual usage of the term is? Why did you cite the Webster definition when it doesn't even support what you were saying? You said: belief in human evolution is faith because it can't be proven and isn't entirely certain. Webster says: faith implies certitude. Now you've made things even more complicated, since Webster has a different definition of faith than either you or I.

Using the words faith and belief are evidently pointless if we can't agree whether they have different meanings or not. So I'm just going to define it all in terms of belief. The belief in religion is believing something based on no empirical evidence. And the belief in human evolution is believing in something based on empirical evidence. You agree with that right? End of story. Now lets move on to something worth arguing about.

I said evolution is fact because it has been observed. I don't need to prove that homo-sapiens evolved from homo erectus, because that is a theory. A theory of human evolution, to be precise. It hasn't been proven, They could have evolved from something else. What is your fucking point exactly? Did I ever say its fact that homo sapiens evolved from homo erectus? What the hell is the point of this if all you're going to do is say prove [insert species] evolved from [insert other species]. Basically, your only interest seems to be in changing the definition of evolution to "whatever can't be proven."

Quote
Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same.

I never did say such a thing. There is absolutely no reason you have to be insulting. Apparently you're the "fucking idiot" by misrepresenting what I'm saying and asking me to prove something I never said in the first place.
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2009, 01:22:49 PM »
Aight, Technical Timothy

Gotta try to use that one on someone tomorrow lol


 :D


Well I guess I got into something else here, but I will say that the more I learn about evolution, the more I am led to believe that there is something that created this.  Things are almost too complex to insist that it "just happened".  Now I don't think whatever created everything is some church's idea of God, but I think there is someone/thing that is responsible.
Real fuckin' got damn talk.


And who don't agree wit evolution?? We don't believe we EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. How Christians reject the idea of advancing? We know we evolve. Look at fuckin' race got damn it. Evolution in the context of 'ape to man' is what we reject. In THAT context of evolution.

no one says we evolved from apes. Its that we evolved from a common ancestor.

also, monkey isn't the same as ape.

Aight, Technical Timothy, but wasn't you the other nigga in that thread implying you believe we evolved from an ape??

No...the theory is that we and apes evolved from the same thing. I'm going to use a word you like to use. Coincidence. Do you think its a coincidence that we are physically so similarly to apes? What about all fossils that have been found of Homo Erectus, Neanderthal, etc, other intelligent humanoids? None of this supports your belief that humans were "created".
So who created the apes?

Like I and others on this board have already said, pick up a book. It ain't my job to explain evolution to someone who isn't willing to learn beyond what they have been conditioned for.

Looks like you're stumped. Aww, damn.

I'm not the one who's stumped. Google the shit. it ain't my job to do your research for you. You shouldn't be involved in the conversation if you don't understand what's being discussed.

You sound like a got damn broken record. Nigga please. I understand. You must just not understand my vocabulary. Mmmm k. I'm followin' youuuuuuuu Rapsodie, followin' youuuuuuuu, and not in that way so fallback. I'm followin' your conversation. What I'd like to know is how ev'rybody just skipped over M Dogg's post. Hmmm?? Why didn't nobody challenge what he said? Ah, maybe he just made a good point.

If I sound like a broken record, its because you aren't listening. DO SOME RESEARCH.

your questions don't make any sense. Its not the vocabulary, its that you don't know what you're talking about. Who created the apes? You're the one who is saying they were created, not me. If you mean what apes evolved from, you can google an article about ape evolution and find out easily. You can't just come into a discussion and expect other people to explain to you what is being discussed.

What I want to know is how you can swear that we aren't related at all to apes, when you haven't even taken the time to do any research into the topic.
I was simply replying to you with my 'who created apes'.

You said you believe in the theory that we and apes evolved from the same thang, and I'm askin' you, what created that thang? Shit just can't appear. So we formed from organisms? Well how did the organisms get here?

I assume by this you essentially mean how did the universe start? There are various theories, I'm sure you know about them. None of them can be proven obviously. However, this doesn't help your argument in the slightest. If something hasn't been proven, that doesn't give you a good reason to come up with another illogical reason. You can ask the question how did life first start, but what in the world would lead you to conclude it was created by an all powerful deity? That's using the same logic as this:

If I show some Amazonas people who are on stone age-level a TV they'll think it was magic.

Look QT, you can believe whatever you want to believe, all I want you to admit is that you rely on absolute faith. Because you are arguing this like your belief is more logical, when obviously it isn't.

Well. At least you hearing me out. I think.

Okay I rely on my faith, but it's sensible faith, wit at the least, reasonable evidence. There's thangs in The Bible that corroborates our life, even the start of our life! Even in The Quran, there's shit corroborated by Science. It's not some book saying we were dropped outta the sky by some stork. It says we formed from dust off the ground. Now if you do just a little thinkin' maybe that could mean THAT organism that you think started us all. Who knows. See you believe man was started by chance, and I believe reason. And the logical motive for that? Becuz life just can't form by accident. And you know this. Don't you? It ain't like it's completely illogical to believe in God, like ya'll acting like. Let's be real.

But its not reasonable. There's no empirical evidence to support that a god exists. That's why its not logical. There are things in the Bible that correspond to life because, guess what? The people who wrote the bible were alive!

An organism isn't dust. I don't understand the connection. Its actually pretty easy to understand why they wrote about dust. Because they knew dead bodies turn into dust by seeing them decay.

You can believe that God created man. BUT............understand that it isn't any more logical than believing that a flying spaghetti monster created man. Or that the universe has been around forever. And this is only talking about creationism. How do you explain logic behind the belief that your identity will live on when you die and spend eternity in this happy place?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 01:27:49 PM by rapsodie, the troll prince »
 

the ghost

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2009, 01:49:14 PM »

But its not reasonable. There's no empirical evidence to support that a god does not exist. That's why its not logical. There are things in the Science books that correspond to life because, guess what? The people who wrote the Science books were alive!


Just playing devils advocate, and not the Game album ;)
 

Shallow

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2009, 01:55:53 PM »
I don't care what google says. Webster says Faith is belief and Belief's first synonym is Faith. In fact the main difference is that faith is usually spoken with certitude, while belief isn't. Your stupidity is making me upset. Just show me the fact and proof that the homo-sapien evolved from the homo-erectus like I can show you the the fact and proof that two objects of different mass fall at the same rate and I'll shut up. Because that is what we are talking about, not micro-evolution, or evolution in plants or insects. So stop trying to sway the argument to something I am not opposing or questioning. Just answer my questions and shut me up. Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same. You fucking idiot.


You don't care what the actual usage of the term is? Why did you cite the Webster definition when it doesn't even support what you were saying? You said: belief in human evolution is faith because it can't be proven and isn't entirely certain. Webster says: faith implies certitude. Now you've made things even more complicated, since Webster has a different definition of faith than either you or I.

Using the words faith and belief are evidently pointless if we can't agree whether they have different meanings or not. So I'm just going to define it all in terms of belief. The belief in religion is believing something based on no empirical evidence. And the belief in human evolution is believing in something based on empirical evidence. You agree with that right? End of story. Now lets move on to something worth arguing about.

I said evolution is fact because it has been observed. I don't need to prove that homo-sapiens evolved from homo erectus, because that is a theory. A theory of human evolution, to be precise. It hasn't been proven, They could have evolved from something else. What is your fucking point exactly? Did I ever say its fact that homo sapiens evolved from homo erectus? What the hell is the point of this if all you're going to do is say prove [insert species] evolved from [insert other species]. Basically, your only interest seems to be in changing the definition of evolution to "whatever can't be proven."

Quote
Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same.

I never did say such a thing. There is absolutely no reason you have to be insulting. Apparently you're the "fucking idiot" by misrepresenting what I'm saying and asking me to prove something I never said in the first place.

Why do you keep bringing up religion? I don't get it. Of course they are different. Faith in God is completely personal and blind. Faith in evolution is based on what we see now and apply to what probably happened thousands of years ago with humans. But it is not proof or fact that humans evolved to homo-sapian from homo-erectus, or Homo neanderthalensis, or even evolved from anything. How homo sapian originated is not scientific fact. And saying it is based on fossils and biology we've discover SO FAR does not make it fact. Just because something is very likely and logical does not make it certain.

In court you can prove a witness is a constant liar and cannot be trusted to tell the truth but you cannot prove the witness was a liar in the particular case because of that history. What I mean is if I have a history of appearing in court and making false statements and several purgery chargers to my name I would be the worst witness for either side. But if I saw a murder and told the truth on the stand I'd still be right in that moment despite the fact that that the opposing council would destroy my credibility to the jury, and whatever I said would hold no merit. As a judge or member of the jury everything logical and scientific about my testimony would say I'm full of shit. But in fact I was telling the truth and because everyone listened to logic and reason a killer would go free.

Gravity on the other hand is not left up to faith in logic, because you can test gravity if you ever question it. You cannot test past human evolution, or my testimony.

As for the insult, I figured you were trolling me and I lashed out. But from the beginning I kept the same argument and you kept giving me the run around about how it's more logical than God and whatever. All I said was that teaching evolution, meaning historical evolution based on logic is not the same as teaching gravity. However if one were to say that on Earth from day one gravity worked as it does now, that would also be based on faith. We were never on earth when it was created to know how gravity worked then. We cannot study 10 million years ago. So if I said you can't say for sure the Earth had gravity 3 billion years ago and you called me an idiot, it would be based on faith. Less faith than me calling you an idiot for not believing in God, but faith none the less. Where as if I said the heavier objects falls faster because it weighs more you could call me an idiot, and should call me an idiot, because you can show me for sure that I am wrong.
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2009, 02:28:16 PM »
I don't care what google says. Webster says Faith is belief and Belief's first synonym is Faith. In fact the main difference is that faith is usually spoken with certitude, while belief isn't. Your stupidity is making me upset. Just show me the fact and proof that the homo-sapien evolved from the homo-erectus like I can show you the the fact and proof that two objects of different mass fall at the same rate and I'll shut up. Because that is what we are talking about, not micro-evolution, or evolution in plants or insects. So stop trying to sway the argument to something I am not opposing or questioning. Just answer my questions and shut me up. Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same. You fucking idiot.


You don't care what the actual usage of the term is? Why did you cite the Webster definition when it doesn't even support what you were saying? You said: belief in human evolution is faith because it can't be proven and isn't entirely certain. Webster says: faith implies certitude. Now you've made things even more complicated, since Webster has a different definition of faith than either you or I.

Using the words faith and belief are evidently pointless if we can't agree whether they have different meanings or not. So I'm just going to define it all in terms of belief. The belief in religion is believing something based on no empirical evidence. And the belief in human evolution is believing in something based on empirical evidence. You agree with that right? End of story. Now lets move on to something worth arguing about.

I said evolution is fact because it has been observed. I don't need to prove that homo-sapiens evolved from homo erectus, because that is a theory. A theory of human evolution, to be precise. It hasn't been proven, They could have evolved from something else. What is your fucking point exactly? Did I ever say its fact that homo sapiens evolved from homo erectus? What the hell is the point of this if all you're going to do is say prove [insert species] evolved from [insert other species]. Basically, your only interest seems to be in changing the definition of evolution to "whatever can't be proven."

Quote
Just tell me why believing in logic and fucking seeing two things of different mass fall at the same rate are the same.

I never did say such a thing. There is absolutely no reason you have to be insulting. Apparently you're the "fucking idiot" by misrepresenting what I'm saying and asking me to prove something I never said in the first place.

Why do you keep bringing up religion? I don't get it. Of course they are different. Faith in God is completely personal and blind. Faith in evolution is based on what we see now and apply to what probably happened thousands of years ago with humans. But it is not proof or fact that humans evolved to homo-sapian from homo-erectus, or Homo neanderthalensis, or even evolved from anything. How homo sapian originated is not scientific fact. And saying it is based on fossils and biology we've discover SO FAR does not make it fact. Just because something is very likely and logical does not make it certain.

In court you can prove a witness is a constant liar and cannot be trusted to tell the truth but you cannot prove the witness was a liar in the particular case because of that history. What I mean is if I have a history of appearing in court and making false statements and several purgery chargers to my name I would be the worst witness for either side. But if I saw a murder and told the truth on the stand I'd still be right in that moment despite the fact that that the opposing council would destroy my credibility to the jury, and whatever I said would hold no merit. As a judge or member of the jury everything logical and scientific about my testimony would say I'm full of shit. But in fact I was telling the truth and because everyone listened to logic and reason a killer would go free.

Gravity on the other hand is not left up to faith in logic, because you can test gravity if you ever question it. You cannot test past human evolution, or my testimony.

As for the insult, I figured you were trolling me and I lashed out. But from the beginning I kept the same argument and you kept giving me the run around about how it's more logical than God and whatever. All I said was that teaching evolution, meaning historical evolution based on logic is not the same as teaching gravity. However if one were to say that on Earth from day one gravity worked as it does now, that would also be based on faith. We were never on earth when it was created to know how gravity worked then. We cannot study 10 million years ago. So if I said you can't say for sure the Earth had gravity 3 billion years ago and you called me an idiot, it would be based on faith. Less faith than me calling you an idiot for not believing in God, but faith none the less. Where as if I said the heavier objects falls faster because it weighs more you could call me an idiot, and should call me an idiot, because you can show me for sure that I am wrong.

Great, so this whole time we have been arguing over nothing. You're definition of "faith" is different then mine obviously. Which both are apparently different from Websters.

I haven't given you the run around on anything. You simply keep misunderstanding the word evolution and what I mean when I say evolution is a fact. That species can evolve from other species is fact. Speciation has been observed. That is evolution. Can I prove the wider extent that a human can evolve from a primate? No. I can only come to the logical conclusion based on the evidence available. Is it extremely extremely likely? Yes. It is absolute fact? No.

And just so you are aware, gravity is a theory as well. We know objects will fall when you let them go. We know planets will orbit the sun. But any explanation of why or how this occurs is still a theory. General relativity is a theory as well. If these are taught, no reason evolution shouldn't also be taught. Science, by its nature, doesn't seek to prove. It seeks to disprove.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 02:33:10 PM by rapsodie, the troll prince »
 

Shallow

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2009, 02:35:40 PM »
If only we understood each other from the get go. I was never implying any kind of evolution is fiction or faith based.

and, yes Gravity is a theory and it cannot explain the why. My only punt was it is a more secure theory than evolution based only on the fact that it can be tried and tested at request. And my specific parts of gravity that I used with regards to different masses was to show that if push came to shove and science class was reduced gravity should be taught before evolution.
 

QuietTruth

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2009, 04:36:03 PM »
Aight, Technical Timothy

Gotta try to use that one on someone tomorrow lol


 :D


Well I guess I got into something else here, but I will say that the more I learn about evolution, the more I am led to believe that there is something that created this.  Things are almost too complex to insist that it "just happened".  Now I don't think whatever created everything is some church's idea of God, but I think there is someone/thing that is responsible.
Real fuckin' got damn talk.


And who don't agree wit evolution?? We don't believe we EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. How Christians reject the idea of advancing? We know we evolve. Look at fuckin' race got damn it. Evolution in the context of 'ape to man' is what we reject. In THAT context of evolution.

no one says we evolved from apes. Its that we evolved from a common ancestor.

also, monkey isn't the same as ape.

Aight, Technical Timothy, but wasn't you the other nigga in that thread implying you believe we evolved from an ape??

No...the theory is that we and apes evolved from the same thing. I'm going to use a word you like to use. Coincidence. Do you think its a coincidence that we are physically so similarly to apes? What about all fossils that have been found of Homo Erectus, Neanderthal, etc, other intelligent humanoids? None of this supports your belief that humans were "created".
So who created the apes?

Like I and others on this board have already said, pick up a book. It ain't my job to explain evolution to someone who isn't willing to learn beyond what they have been conditioned for.

Looks like you're stumped. Aww, damn.

I'm not the one who's stumped. Google the shit. it ain't my job to do your research for you. You shouldn't be involved in the conversation if you don't understand what's being discussed.

You sound like a got damn broken record. Nigga please. I understand. You must just not understand my vocabulary. Mmmm k. I'm followin' youuuuuuuu Rapsodie, followin' youuuuuuuu, and not in that way so fallback. I'm followin' your conversation. What I'd like to know is how ev'rybody just skipped over M Dogg's post. Hmmm?? Why didn't nobody challenge what he said? Ah, maybe he just made a good point.

If I sound like a broken record, its because you aren't listening. DO SOME RESEARCH.

your questions don't make any sense. Its not the vocabulary, its that you don't know what you're talking about. Who created the apes? You're the one who is saying they were created, not me. If you mean what apes evolved from, you can google an article about ape evolution and find out easily. You can't just come into a discussion and expect other people to explain to you what is being discussed.

What I want to know is how you can swear that we aren't related at all to apes, when you haven't even taken the time to do any research into the topic.
I was simply replying to you with my 'who created apes'.

You said you believe in the theory that we and apes evolved from the same thang, and I'm askin' you, what created that thang? Shit just can't appear. So we formed from organisms? Well how did the organisms get here?

I assume by this you essentially mean how did the universe start? There are various theories, I'm sure you know about them. None of them can be proven obviously. However, this doesn't help your argument in the slightest. If something hasn't been proven, that doesn't give you a good reason to come up with another illogical reason. You can ask the question how did life first start, but what in the world would lead you to conclude it was created by an all powerful deity? That's using the same logic as this:

If I show some Amazonas people who are on stone age-level a TV they'll think it was magic.

Look QT, you can believe whatever you want to believe, all I want you to admit is that you rely on absolute faith. Because you are arguing this like your belief is more logical, when obviously it isn't.

Well. At least you hearing me out. I think.

Okay I rely on my faith, but it's sensible faith, wit at the least, reasonable evidence. There's thangs in The Bible that corroborates our life, even the start of our life! Even in The Quran, there's shit corroborated by Science. It's not some book saying we were dropped outta the sky by some stork. It says we formed from dust off the ground. Now if you do just a little thinkin' maybe that could mean THAT organism that you think started us all. Who knows. See you believe man was started by chance, and I believe reason. And the logical motive for that? Becuz life just can't form by accident. And you know this. Don't you? It ain't like it's completely illogical to believe in God, like ya'll acting like. Let's be real.

But its not reasonable. There's no empirical evidence to support that a god exists. That's why its not logical. There are things in the Bible that correspond to life because, guess what? The people who wrote the bible were alive!

An organism isn't dust. I don't understand the connection. Its actually pretty easy to understand why they wrote about dust. Because they knew dead bodies turn into dust by seeing them decay.

You can believe that God created man. BUT............understand that it isn't any more logical than believing that a flying spaghetti monster created man. Or that the universe has been around forever. And this is only talking about creationism. How do you explain logic behind the belief that your identity will live on when you die and spend eternity in this happy place?
Yeah they were alive and maybe telling the Truth. There where places in the Bible nobody believed where actual places until the age of archaeology. They were alive writing about current events, current events PROVED wit evidence, proving they actually occurred. If all these authors of The Bible are naming actual events, places, Kings, battles, and rises and falls of Kingdoms do you think they all really choose to flat out LIE about some man Jesus who could perform miracles that they say repeatedly, they saw wit their own eyes?  I don't think they would write all about these historical events and than just decide to throw in some fairly tale. And obviously having faith in God comes from the stories of Jesus. So.. if these authors are proven honest by telling us of actual events in their time, validating they're telling the Truth, don't you have maybe some motive to believe them for real?

Man. I don't know. I really don't get your way of thinking on this. I just can't wrap my brain around the belief all these trees, all these plants, all these animals, all these mountains, all the seas, all of mankind happened by chance. Can't figure it out. I can't believe that we ate animal and found it HEALTHY for us. If this world was made by chance, what if we ate meat and it was poisonous. We would die. There'd be no mankind. But we ate it and it was good for us and kept us alive to survive. And you think that is by accident too??

And homie there will never be 'empirical evidence to support that a God exists'. Ever. Prolly never ever nigga. How you know God ain't MORE than matter, time, space and energy? You cannot measure or you cannot study or PROVE somethang humans can't reach, what they can't see, feel, touch or hear. IT'S PROVEN FACT, humans cannot see everythang, that's proven by microscopes. WHICH MAKES IS POSSIBLE and EVIDENT the human naked eye is blind. JUST IMAGINE what else it can't see and will never know.

'How do you explain logic behind the belief that your identity will live on when you die and spend eternity in this happy place?'....ain't it FACT we give off body heat. What's body heat? Human energy right? So we must have energy of some sort right? Energy can never be created or destroyed!!! It can't be destroyed! So where does it go? Energy just might be another word for soul. So wit that said, off it goes wit God to Heaven.
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2009, 07:24:47 PM »
Yeah they were alive and maybe telling the Truth. There where places in the Bible nobody believed where actual places until the age of archaeology. They were alive writing about current events, current events PROVED wit evidence, proving they actually occurred. If all these authors of The Bible are naming actual events, places, Kings, battles, and rises and falls of Kingdoms do you think they all really choose to flat out LIE about some man Jesus who could perform miracles that they say repeatedly, they saw wit their own eyes?  I don't think they would write all about these historical events and than just decide to throw in some fairly tale. And obviously having faith in God comes from the stories of Jesus. So.. if these authors are proven honest by telling us of actual events in their time, validating they're telling the Truth, don't you have maybe some motive to believe them for real?

There is no motive to believe anything in the bible. Because a million other things talk about events, yet most of us don't believe in them. Why not believe in the Greek and Roman gods homie? Why not believe in African myths? Why not believe in witchcraft? Because it isn't logical thinking. What is the real difference  between Christianity and myths? You are acting like the bible is the only story that talk about events.

You know what's crazy about the bible? People in the bible actually see god! He's there! He's punishing evil people, he's saving his followers, he's talking to people, etc.

It's not logical thinking to believe in a book that men wrote 3000 years ago. What's the difference between that and scientology?

Quote
Man. I don't know. I really don't get your way of thinking on this. I just can't wrap my brain around the belief all these trees, all these plants, all these animals, all these mountains, all the seas, all of mankind happened by chance. Can't figure it out. I can't believe that we ate animal and found it HEALTHY for us. If this world was made by chance, what if we ate meat and it was poisonous. We would die. There'd be no mankind. But we ate it and it was good for us and kept us alive to survive. And you think that is by accident too??

lmao.....wtf homie. There was a lot of shit that was poisonous for us. A lot of people did die. I don't get what you're trying to say. To me its all random. Meat could've been poisonous and poisonous stuff could've been good for you. Would it have made a difference? Not really.

Quote
And homie there will never be 'empirical evidence to support that a God exists'. Ever. Prolly never ever nigga. How you know God ain't MORE than matter, time, space and energy? You cannot measure or you cannot study or PROVE somethang humans can't reach, what they can't see, feel, touch or hear. IT'S PROVEN FACT, humans cannot see everythang, that's proven by microscopes. WHICH MAKES IS POSSIBLE and EVIDENT the human naked eye is blind. JUST IMAGINE what else it can't see and will never know.

As I said before, I can "imagine" about an invisible spaghetti monster and it will have the same result. Doesn't give it an ounce of truth.

Quote
'How do you explain logic behind the belief that your identity will live on when you die and spend eternity in this happy place?'....ain't it FACT we give off body heat. What's body heat? Human energy right? So we must have energy of some sort right? Energy can never be created or destroyed!!! It can't be destroyed! So where does it go? Energy just might be another word for soul. So wit that said, off it goes wit God to Heaven.

This is simply a matter of you not understanding what energy is. Energy is physical. We consume energy when we eat food, breathe, hence we give it off as well. Humans aren't the only ones who give off heat ya know. Are you saying animals and plants have souls? A light bulb gives off heat, does a light bulb have a soul?

Its not a fucking mystery where energy goes. Its still around us!! Heat doesn't disappear.
 

C-BLUE

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2009, 07:47:11 PM »
Some of this shit is just hilarious. The chances that the theory of evolution is truth are extremely high. Every single thing points in that fuccin' direction. It's almost not a theory anymore and it's just mind boggling to me that people still believe in god. I'm a quote QT when I say I just can't wrap my head around it.