Mos Def excerpts from Politcally Incorrect

[infinite59]

Oct. 2000

Guests on this program were:
Charlotte Church
Guy Torry
Mos Def
Holly Mclure
Panel Discussion

Bill: Well, it's been a big week for news again, but let's get right to what's on everybody's mind. Halloween is coming --

[ unenthusiastically ]

And so is the election.

[ Laughter ]

Yeah, I know. Two events that always start off promising, but wind up making everybody sick.

[ Laughter ]

So what better time to set the mood with a scary Halloween story. So -- ahh! That's -- okay. How's that? It's pretty scary. Okay, this is the true story of the presidential election of the year 2000 -- "The Story of the Telltale Penis."

[ Laughter ]

Once upon a time, a wise, benevolent ruler had his scepter polished --

[ Laughter ]

-- by a raven-haired temptress adorned in finery. Okay, a fat chick in a thong.

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

Aah! From this evil deed in a windowless hallway behind the chamber door, a curse was borne that cast a stain upon all the land.

[ Laughter ]

Not to mention a perfectly good GAP dress.

[ Laughter ]

The days passed, but the ruler's wicked wand was not forgotten -- except by his wife.

[ Laughter ]

Soon it came time for the ruler to step down and retire to his country estate, where he would spend the remainder of his days hunting beaver.

[ Laughter ]

He chose Prince Albert of Washington, a man of kind heart and slightly effeminate bearing, to succeed him. But Albert could not escape the evil echoes of the telltale tool. Like an aching wound, it throbbed. He summoned the holy man Lieberman to end the curse by evoking the name of God repeatedly on talk shows. But still the unholy member pounded. Albert even appeared before the assembled of his party and kissed his wife in the French-style --

[ Laughter ]

-- hoping to quell the sinister pulse, but this only made it louder, plus the pundits had a field day. Albert's rival, George the compassionate, tried to blame Albert himself for the curse. "We must restore honor and dignity," he said -- between executions.

[ Laughter ]

"Don't blame me," Albert cried out. "I am my own man!" But he still couldn't stop the demonic thumping, for George was ruthless. "Honoring dignity we must restore," quote the rival, "never Gore!"

[ Laughter ]

In the morning of November 8th, Albert woke up to a miracle. The incessant beating had ceased. The curse has been lifted. Albert threw back the covers with joy, and there, nestled in the folds of his bed linens, was the telltale penis, along with a note which read, "I should've cut this off years ago" -- signed, "Hillary."

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

Bill: All right.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Let's meet our panel. She is a film critic and the co-host of "Holly McClure live in San Diego" -- Holly McClure! Holly, there you are.

[ Applause ]

Holly: That was very funny.

Bill: Thank you very much. A popular recording artist and a co-star of "Bamboozled," his new cd is called "Black on Both Sides" -- Mr. Mos Def is right over here!

[ Cheers and applause ]

I was listening to this all day. You're good.

Mos Def: Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Bill: You are good. A very talented actor/comedian and his upcoming movie is "The Animal" opening early next year -- Guy Torry! Guy!

[ Cheers and applause ]

Hello, brother. How you doing? I told you, I don't know the handshakes. And I never will. A bright light of the opera world, she's the young soprano behind "Charlotte Church dream a dream." Charlotte Church, ladies and gentlemen!

[ Cheers and applause ]

Hey. How you doin'? Welcome aboard. Okay, well, since we had a Halloween sketch there, and Halloween is next -- when is it, Tuesday? Wednesday?

Holly: Tuesday.

Bill: Okay, Wednesday.

Mos Def: Today.

Guy: Every day in L.A. Walk down sunset.

Bill: That's true. I saw a Guy today in a purple mohawk with a pierced nose. I said, "Where you going?" He said, "To pick up my costume."

[ Laughter ]

Anyway -- Holly, I wanted you here because I know you are not a fan of this, Holly. You think it's a Pagan ritual.

Holly: Yes, I do.

Bill: And you think it promotes Satanism and all sorts of --

Holly: Yes, I do.

Bill: Really? Because, you know, religion does that itself.

Holly: Yeah, that's true.

Bill: I hope you know that Christianity is grafted on paganism.

Holly: That's true.

Bill: Completely. And it's all about a man in the sky who's gonna send you in a burning Lake Of fire if you screw up.

Guy: Halloween was started in the Catholic Church.

Holly: No, it was not.

Guy: Yes, it was!

Holly: No, it was not!

Guy: Yes, it was! It was started -- do you know what it means?

Holly: It was not started in the Catholic Church.

[ All talking at once ]

Holly: However, it was started by the druids in England and --

Mos Def: No.

Guy: It started in the Catholic Church.

Bill: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Holly: First of all --

[ All talking at once ]

Mos Def: This is a perfect example. We don't even know the real origin of this holiday.

Guy: I'm trying to tell you the origin.

[ All talking at once ]

Guy: Hallow means -- it was for All Hallow's Day, which is All Saints Day.

Bill: No, it is. It's All Hallows Eve. It's the day before All Saints Day --

Holly: Halloween is the witches holiday that they celebrate, which is the highest --

Guy: In Ireland.

Holly: -- in the height of their power. Not in Ireland.

Guy: In Celtic Ireland.

Holly: The Druids came out of England, which is where Halloween came out of. Samhain, actually.

Guy: Right, but the hallow came --

Charlotte: I just think it's fun.

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

Holly: Charlotte, you know what? It is fun.

[ Applause ]

I mean, it is fun. No, it is fun. And I'm not trying to put a little damper on the fun, but the thing is it's become, though --

Charlotte: I think -- 'cause, in Britain, we don't make such of a big deal of it as you do in America.

Bill: Because you're not insane there.

Charlotte: No, all we do is like dress up as, like -- well, I don't, but until the age of about 12. And then you're considered really sad if you do it after that. But you dress up as like Draculas or witches or something like that.

Holly: Wait, wait. You dress up as what? You dress up as what, Charlotte?

Charlotte: Draculas and witches. Yeah, but, you know, they don't care about that. They just care about getting treats and candy and money.

Guy: You don't go around biting people. It's about getting candy!

Charlotte: Yeah.

Holly: You Guys, but the subliminal message and the deeper message is this -- it has become more and more. 20 years ago you could dress up as a hobo and you could go out with a paper bag and get candy. Nowadays, it's totally --

Bill: Now you dress as a ho.

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

And, believe me, you get a lot more candy.

[ Laughter ]

Mos Def: I just think it's a sort of a ridiculous holiday. I mean, Most people don't know why they celebrate it, what the origin of it is. I mean --

Holly: And that's what's ridiculous about it! People don't know.

Guy: What happened was this. Before all saints day, they felt that the spirits would come back and possess people's bodies. So what they did was they went out and they put on costumes and paraded around the streets to scare the evil spirits away. And that's where the whole costume thing came from.

Mos Def: I think this is a really casual way to have contact with the underworld. Like, "Oh, the dead spirits are out today. Let me put on my house coat so they won't get me."

Guy: And scare 'em away. But that's what they thought! That's where the costumes came from.

Mos Def: If I knew that there were dead spirits, that would just be a day I didn't go out. It wouldn't be a day of celebration. It would be like --

Guy: They didn't celebrate it, what they did was they thought they were scaring the spirits away.

Mos Def: How you gonna scare spirits?

Guy: That's what they thought. It's not what it thought.

Holly: I wanna tell you something. The originally Samhain, originally which came from the druids to England, was carried over here -- which is what developed to the Church, went through the whole thing -- was to praise and only worship evil and Satan. And that's what it's for. And I don't care, you try to change it. I don't care how you try to say, "Well, you know, we just put on costumes. We don't really know." The underlying whole reason for this holiday is to worship satan, dark and evil. It's their highest night of power.

Mos Def: I wouldn't use that same exact language, but there is something pretty sinister about the whole idea of Halloween.

Guy: But it's up to the parents to educate the kids on that.

[ All talking at once ]

Guy: And let them have their candy!

Holly: What parents are gonna educate kids -- what parents? There's no one educating kids.

Mos Def: Let me make this point about Halloween. It just seems to me like it's another consumer holiday, sort of like --

Guy: For money!

Mos Def: Yeah, like Valentine's Day. Like, "Go buy your girl a Valentine's card or some chocolate."

Bill: Exactly. It's selling stuff. It's --

Guy: Right. It's all about the money.

Holly: It's become the second biggest holiday in this nation. And you know what? Three out of ten adults dress up more than the kids do.

Mos Def: And at the village in New York, and that guy -- they said the guy that has the thing, you know, to buy that ridiculous --

Holly: For the "Scream" or the --

Mos Def: No, the thing that makes the Jack-o'-lantern faces.

Holly: Oh, yeah. Okay. The knife that cuts it.

Mos Def: I don't know how true this is, but somebody says that this Guys make $3 million a year off of this --

Holly: I wouldn't doubt it.

Mos Def: -- Halloween, just this holiday.

Holly: That's the ridiculousness of this holiday.

Charlotte: I happen to think that, like, a 7-year-old girl dressed in a princess costume isn't gonna be thinking of Satan as she's going to collect candy.

Guy: Exactly.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Holly: Charlotte, that's true. That's true that she doesn't. But there's a lot of things we do in this culture that we're so stupid, because we don't know anything about it and we're so ignorant on the whole reason why we do it. We just go along like sheep to the slaughter. And I think it's important to know the real reasons.

Bill: Which is a perfect description of religion itself.

[ Laughter ]

Mos Def: No, no, no -- I don't --

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: I mean, what is scarier than drinking the man's blood every Sunday? That's not a spooky ritual? "Oh, look. Here, kids. Drink his blood and eat his body." Like that's not pagan? How can you be more Pagan than that?

Mos Def: I'm all for freedom of faith. There are things about everyone's faith that we might think are peculiar or strange. I saw a book about Indian mystics, who tie bricks and mortar to their penises to reach some state of enlightenment.

Bill: Oh, that's --

[ Laughter ]

Mos Def: I think that's ridiculous myself, but that's part of their tradition. I have to respect that. I don't think it's --

Bill: Enlightenment? They just want a bigger penis.

[ Laughter ]

Guy: I don't think that that helps the --

Mos Def: I think we're getting off of the original topic.

Holly: I think we're getting way off the subject.

Mos Def: I don't think it's fair to lump up religion as like this evil and wicked thing. I think people have, you know, their own customs. Now people that start a religious system will misuse and abuse and misrepresent the principles of a religion for their own, you know, purposes or intentions, which may not be so pure. But I don't think it's fair to just say, you know, I think it's too blanket in general to demonize all of religion.

Guy: To say all religion is wrong.

Holly: That's true. That's true.

Bill: Okay, I have to take a commercial. We'll be right back.

[ Applause ]

Announcer: Join us next week on "Politically Incorrect," when Bill's guests will include actor and comedian John Lovitz, rock icon David Crosby, Reverend Jesse Jackson and actor George Hamilton.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: All right. We were talking about Halloween and the fact that one of the phenomenons of this holiday in recent years is that it's been taken over by adults.

Guy: Yeah.

Holly: Yes.

Bill: And therefore the costumes have changed. And really one of the big costumes, let's face it, is pimps.

[ Laughter ]

I mean, there's a pimp-and-ho ball. I went to it last year in Las Vegas -- as an observer.

[ Laughter ]

Show that clip of wrestling. I mean, there's this guy, the Godfather of Wrestling. He dresses as a pimp. I mean, this is a --

I know that I ain't the only one! Is there any pimps up in this house?!

Bill: A pimp. Everybody does pimp. Look at this, just to give you one example how far this phenomenon has stretched. There --

[ Laughter ]

Guy: That's a wimp. That ain't a pimp.

[ Cheers and applause ]

I'm gonna mess you up, sucka!

Bill: That was a sketch we did years ago.

Mos Def: Have you seen the film "American Pimp"?

Bill: What is it?

Mos Def: There's a documentary called "American Pimp."

Holly: And it glorifies pimps.

Mos Def: No, it does not. It does not. Have you seen it?

Holly: Yeah, I have, actually.

Mos Def: It doesn't glorify pimps at all. And I think one of the interesting things about it -- first of all, America has a love affair with the villain.

Guy: Yes.

Mos Def: Billy the Kid, John Dillinger, Jesse James, Al Capone --

Bill: George Bush.

[ Laughter ]

Holly: But how can you even correlate a pimp with a villain? First of all, why aren't we honoring the whores? They do all the work. They're the ones that, you know, do all the work that they can get paid for. But we don't honor that in our society, do we? No, they're looked down upon.

Guy: 'Cause they're the one that's giving up the money! Come on now.

[ All talking at once ]

Mos Def: You can honor the pimp because he does none of the work and he gets all of the money.

Holly: But why is the pimp honored?

Guy: They shouldn't be honored either. But, come on --

Holly: Come on what? It's ridiculous that we need to make movies -- come on!

Bill: Popular culture now has kind of blurred the line between a pimp and just a mack. You know?

Mos Def: Really, Bill?

Bill: You don't think so?

Guy: Hey, there's a fine line between pimps and preachers, too, now.

Bill: You're right!

Guy: There's a fine line. There's some good preachers out there, but there's just a fine line between pimps and preachers. There's a very fine line.

Holly: Fleecing the flock, or what? How are you correlating it?

Guy: Well, if you control the whole congregation and making them give up their money --

Holly: Stop going down the wrong way!

Guy: No, no, no. I'm a Christian, too, but, you --

Holly: People are giving to God! Not --

Bill: Oh, you're not giving to God! [ All talking at once ]

Guy: No, you got some preachers who are good. You got preachers who are good.

Holly: Okay, I'll give you that.

Guy: But, you got --

Bill: Why would God need money?

Charlotte: Anyway. Anyway.\E Because, in Britain we have like little -- sorry, I'm gonna go on to fashion, as well as this. No, but we have, like, little T-shirts saying "Pimp" and stuff across it. But anyway, I think it's kind of like just taking an account of them to just make it like gimmicky and commercial in a way. I think it's kind of bad to kind of even make the word so globally acceptable -- you know, by having it spread all over clothes and that type of stuff.

Holly: But, who's glorifying it? Who's praising it? Do you think women --

Guy: Well, you got a lot of rappers.

Bill: A lot of rappers.

Mos Def: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Bill: Not you.

Guy: Not all.

Bill: Not you. But, a lot of them.

Mos Def: How do rappers become responsible for glorifying --

Bill: Because they sing about it all the time.

[ All talking at once ]

[ Bill singing ]

^ Hey, dirty ^ ^ Baby, I got your money ^

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

What's that?

Mos Def: Nobody says anything when motley crew was talking about "Girls, girls, girls" or --

Guy: I don't listen to motley crue. So I don't know.

Bill: But that's not the same thing. This --

Holly: How is it not?!

Bill: That's not pimpin'. They're saying, "Hey, dirty, I got your money." It's a happy song. "I got the money."

Holly: And they're using porn stars in the video.

[ All talking at once ]

Mos Def: Prostitution has been around way too long for hip-hop to be --

Guy: A lot of rappers are being pimped, though. A lot of rappers are being --

Mos Def: Prostitution has been around way too long for hip-hop to suddenly be the "Pr."

[ All talking at once ]

Holly: -- The black male pimp. And that's who they're glorifying in these rap songs. And they glorify abusing women. They are!

Guy: Say "Some." Say "Some."

Holly: Okay, some are glorifying abusing women. And some of the videos are featuring porn stars. Do you know that's the biggest industry right now? The porn stars --

[ All talking at once ]

Mos Def: There's porn stars in all of these rock videos.

Bill: That's true.

Mos Def: They got porn stars on the cover. And let me say this much about pimps --

Holly: You like them? [ All talking at once ]

Mos Def: Can I finish?

Bill: Yeah, if you let --

Mos Def: Are you making assumptions of me based on my hat?

[ Laughter ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

Holly: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Bill: Let the man do some good talking.

Mos Def: Thank you!

Holly: Okay.

Mos Def: Now --

[ Laughter ]

Pimps -- the whole image and profile of pimps is based on what I believe a lot of white America would like to believe about black men -- what is important to black men.

Holly: What? What are you talking --

Mos Def: Name a famous white pimp!

Holly: Actually, actually --

Mos Def: All of the pimps were black.

Holly: Actually, there is one --

Mos Def: One. One.

Holly: -- who is famous. But don't you understand that --

Bill: Who? Who is the famous white pimp?

Holly: You'd say the name and I'd know it, but he was in that song about -- he was the one white Guy.

Mos Def: White Folk. White Folk. Mr. White Folk.

Holly: We was in -- well, he has a ranch for women. But anyway, the point is, though -- but, the point is is that if it's Mostly black men, what does it say about black culture? If black men are Mostly the pimps, what does this say about that culture?

Mos Def: Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait.

[ All talking at once ]

Mos Def: Hold it! Let me say this. And that's why everybody should go out and see this movie "American Pimp."

Holly: It's degrading to the blacks.

Mos Def: No, it's not.

Holly: I think it is.

Mos Def: First of all, the Bunny Ranch in Nevada is owned and operated by a white man.

Holly: Yes. I just told you that.

Mos Def: All right? Now, nobody looks at him like a pimp. He's just a successful businessman. He's a crappy businessman.

Holly: He's a pimp!

Mos Def: No, he's not. That's the public perception of him.

Holly: He's not beating the women? He's not out prostitutizing --

[ All talking at once ]

Mos Def: How do you know? You saying this like you work there.

Holly: I watched the video! All I'm saying is it's degrading --

[ All talking at once ]

Bill: All right.

Mos Def: And let me just say this.

Bill: I gotta take a break, and then you can say that. We'll take a commercial.

[ Cheers and applause ]

[ Applause ]

Bill: Okay, we were talking about pimpin'. Or as I like to call it "Big Pimpin'."

Guy: Big pimpin'.

Bill: And I have to take issue with you here, Mr. Def. Because, I mean, you say --

Mos Def: Is it the hat? Is it the hat?

Bill: It's not the hat, but you're sort of saying this is a white characterization. I mean, it's not. These are rap stars who are -- they are glorifying this. They are glorifying the pimpin' lifestyle and the idea that you can get women and do anything you want and give you the money.

Holly: It degrades them.

Bill: It's like the ultimate macho thing to get women to do that.

Mos Def: That's not the thing. First of all, well, the thing in rap now is to get women and not have to spend any money on them.

Holly: Oh, and that's something -- that's an elevating quality? That's something that you're proud of?

[ Laughter ]

Mos Def: I'm just edifying my --

Holly: What's that teach people like her age? What does that teach her age?

Mos Def: What I'm saying is that I just think that there is a long history of pimping and prostitution being glorified that precedes whatever references --

Holly: And when are we gonna stop it? When does this country say enough is enough and we stop teaching our kids and teenagers, that, like Bill said, that that's how you treat women? It's not.

Mos Def: That's a very good question.

[ All talking at once ]

Bill: Wait, I wanna hear from --

Charlotte: Well, I was gonna say I think it has definitely become more pronounced in videos and stuff like that. Because like in almost every video now that you see of a single male star -- whether it's rapping or any type of music -- it's definitely got all these girls dancing really raunchily in the background. And then you can say the same about Madonna's video. Because she goes into this strip bar, as well. But I think it definitely has become more pronounced. And you see more of it on television.

Guy: It's not just a black thing.

Charlotte: No, I don't -- I think it's widespread.

[ Laughter ] Guy: I think of the Asian pimp, man.

Mos Def: Who, Yummy-Yummy?

Guy: Yummy-Yummy.

Bill: Asian pimp? What, does he wanna sell ass an hour later?

[ Laughter ]

All right. We gotta take another commercial. We will be right back.

[ Applause ]

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: All right. Mos Def and Charlotte Church's record -- "Big pimpin' in Junior High." I kid. Monday we have Mimi Rogers, Molly Culver, Artie Lang and Jack Burkman. Thank you, folks.