Dr Dre launches royalties lawsuit against WIDEawake Death Row

[love33]

It gets down to common sense.  We're in the digital age of mixtapes and free downloading, no person is going to wait 12 years for an album or 2 years for a beat.  Take some notes and look how Dre ruined Bishop Lamont's career by putting him in purgatory and not releasing any of his shit (same thing Suge did with Crooked I).  One thing Suge & Dre have in common is that they both don't release anything.  Dre messed up Truth Hurtz career when they stole that sample, he couldn't get Hittman or Rakim's album out and pissed them off, Busta couldn't get another album released after "The Big Bang" was one of his worst.  Just take a look at the late 2000's and forget the 90's for a minute.  Dre and Suge operate like it's the 90's and they both think that releasing one album every 3 years is going to cut it after the artist gets no exposure.  Meanwhile, in the digital era, these cats are dropping mad free tracks to promote themselves, jumping on other artist's tracks, and releasing mixtapes.  Dre hardly ever clears his artists for guest appearances.  I love "The Chronic" and "Doggystyle" like anyone else, but this was 18 years ago.  And too much of the West is waiting for him to drop this album thinking it's going to save an entire coast which has been shutdown except for a handful of artists like Game & E-40 for the last 10 years.  If Dre would have made 2 tracks a year, this album would have 20 tracks ready to go.  He can't make 2 good tracks a year?  Crook said it perfectly on the Slaughterhouse single "Move on Westcoast."

[Jimmy H.]

Where to start with you, love33.

I said Crooked I should consider Miami rather than trying to sell to his 300 people on this forum.  Jim Jones, Fabolous, Diddy, Cool & Dre, Scott Storch, Rick Ross, Flo Rida, Mannie Fresh, Lil Wayne, Juelz Santana, The Dream, Trick Daddy, 2 Pistolz, Ace Hood, Ryan Leslie, Trey Songz, T-Pain, LL Cool J, and a grip of others have residences there or frequent there regularly.  Why wouldn't he want to expand his networking opportunities or any other artist who has talent but is rotting in the West due to a lack of promotion, album releases, etc.3

So rappers from California should move their operation to Miami because of the great "networking opportunies"? That's like taking something out of the freezer and putting in the fridge because you want it to be ice cold. Millions of artists also reside or frequate in California. What's your point? You're actually trying to argue that lack of promotion and album releases is a geographical issue? Like an L.A. rapper is suddenly gonna make street date because he hangs out at Cabana One. Cut the shit! Also, one name that is convienetly absent from your list of major out-of-town rappers who are heavy in the Miami scene is Fat Joe. Wonder why that is.

I'm not knocking Miami as a networking opportunity. I just don't view it as some career-saving "holy grail" like you do. Obviously, moving around and networking is crucial to any artist that wants to move past regional status but when talking about California as a region, it should be noted that unlike, say, Louisana or Delaware, it does have the benefit of being where the majority of the fucking industry resides. That to me is why I can't help but laugh when you act like being based out of California is damaging to one's career. Yes, L.A. rap music is not selling at the moment but L.A. rappers who network in Miami aren't instantly recognized as something different anyway.

It gets down to common sense.  We're in the digital age of mixtapes and free downloading, no person is going to wait 12 years for an album or 2 years for a beat.

Well, contrary to what you may think. People have been waiting that long for Detox and they still are. It's still a topic of conversation and will continue to be. Granted, people are more than a little irritated with the wait but they are still talking about it.

Take some notes and look how Dre ruined Bishop Lamont's career by putting him in purgatory.

How exactly? I mean, it's a lovely theory but what do you have outside of heresay? And how is his career ruined exactly? He had a nice bit of buzz generated from working with Dre that didn't pan into something bigger. Dissapointing but hardly the death nail in his career. Is he more well-known now than he was before he signed on with Dre? Yes.

One thing Suge & Dre have in common is that they both don't release anything.

Aftermath put out two albums last year. One of them was almost entirely produced by Dre.

Dre messed up Truth Hurtz career when they stole that sample.

Dre didn't produce the album. I doubt he was personally in charge of going through the legal channels to have the sample cleared. The label fucked up but what can you do?

he couldn't get Hittman or Rakim's album out and pissed them off

Rakim's album was never done. How does one get an album out that is not completed? As for Hittman, are we still talking about the digital era of downloads and mixtapes or are we actually talking about the era when Hittman was on Aftermath? The era where instead of dropping that album, they put out Eminem's second solo which went diamond. I mean, if Hitt was that huge, shouldn't he have wound up doing some pretty big business when he left?

Busta couldn't get another album released after "The Big Bang" was one of his worst.

Big Bang was his first #1 album in the States and his highest-selling album in the UK. How exactly is this one of his worst? The last one he put out did about 250,000 after more than six months where "Bang" did over 200,000 in its first week. Busta has gone on record as saying it was differences with Jimmy Iovine that had him leaving Interscope.

Just take a look at the late 2000's and forget the 90's for a minute.

Why is it strictly the 90's or the late 2000's? How about that whole middle point called the first five or six years of the 2000's where Dre helped launched Eminem, 50 Cent, and The Game, selling millions of records with each? I mean, it's not like an Aftermath artist had the #1 selling hip-hop album of last year, now is it?

I love "The Chronic" and "Doggystyle" like anyone else, but this was 18 years ago.

That's swell and all but "2001" was 10 years ago and "Documentary" was about 5. I'm guessing Eminem and 50's sales don't count because not only are they outside of Cali but they don't happen to reside in Miami.

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

damn as always jimmy real talk

[love33]

Where to start with you, love33.
That's swell and all but "2001" was 10 years ago and "Documentary" was about 5
What's your point? You're actually trying to argue that lack of promotion and album releases is a geographical issue?

First of all, I know your a Euro-teenie, but in our country here The biggest market is New York, first of all.  Second of all, rap doesn't exist left of St. Louis right now, so pull out your map of the U.S. and shade it in black left of St. Louis because nobody in Florida or New York or Chicago or Atlanta is listening to any of the shit going on in Los Angeles right now minus a Snoop Dogg, E-40, or Game track here and there.  (You would know this if you lived here)

Second, all those artists from NY including Fat Joe that I named above are all running around in Miami so it's a great hub to network and Mannie Fresh is there (who has produced more hit records than Dr. Dre) and Cool & Dre (who Game loves to work with), Scott Storch, T-Pain frequents there (the king of the hooks), and yeah, Fat Joe had a hit record with "Aloha" which was allover the radio and clubs in Miami and New York.  Fat Joe also has gone platinum (JOSE) unlike Bishop, or any of those other cats you are strokin who cant even sell gold on their best effort.  The amount of talent there is endless to make music with faces people actually listen to (sorry Bishop Lamont).  Lil Wayne, the top selling rapper in the game, LL Cool J, resides in Miami as well.

Third, talking about Eminem (Detroit) and 50's (New York) songs have nothing to do with "Dre solo albums." how Dre and Storch co-produced a few tracks on "The Documentary" doesn't count as a "Dre album" lol.  Swizz Beatz was on there and Cool & Dre did the biggest track "Hate It Or Love It" and "Put You On The Game" was a Timbaland track so where you come off calling that a "Dre allbum" is my guess is maybe you weren't able to buy it over there to see the credits?  Dre has 2 solo albums and his last release was in 1999 and his first one was in 1992.

FYI, Dre & Jimmy wouldnt even agree to release Busta's new album so he walked out, Hittman left on bad terms with no album, Rakim had shit recorded but Dre didn't think it was up to his 12 year standard, Truth Hurtz was a flop, and Bishop Lamont lost the best years of his career with no album because (pull out your map again) Interscope put their energy into rap music east of the Mississippi.

Finally, you never had an answer for what's gone on in the late 2000's...you said Bishop Lamont's career is better now because he's more well known? Well, my friend, if you mentioned Bishop Lamont to rap fans in Florida or New York you would get laughed at because nobody listens to that shit!

[Jimmy H.]

First of all, I know your a Euro-teenie.

 Nope. I'm from Boston, which last I checked was not in Europe. I'm also closer to 30 than I am to being a teenager. Both of which are irrelvant. If I was seven and lived in Kuwait, would it make any information I stated less valid?

Second of all, rap doesn't exist left of St. Louis right now, so pull out your map of the U.S. and shade it in black left of St. Louis because nobody in Florida or New York or Chicago or Atlanta is listening to any of the shit going on in Los Angeles right now minus a Snoop Dogg, E-40, or Game track here and there.  (You would know this if you lived here)

 That will just be your little secret there. If West Coast music does not exist, why are you here on the boards again?

Second, all those artists from NY including Fat Joe that I named above are all running around in Miami so it's a great hub to network and Mannie Fresh is there (who has produced more hit records than Dr. Dre) and Cool & Dre (who Game loves to work with), Scott Storch, T-Pain frequents there (the king of the hooks), and yeah, Fat Joe had a hit record with "Aloha" which was allover the radio and clubs in Miami and New York.  Fat Joe also has gone platinum (JOSE) unlike Bishop, or any of those other cats you are strokin who cant even sell gold on their best effort.  The amount of talent there is endless to make music with faces people actually listen to (sorry Bishop Lamont).  Lil Wayne, the top selling rapper in the game, LL Cool J, resides in Miami as well.

That's actually "third" but I'm with you. I never said Miami was not a great networking hub. In fact, I agree with you on that statement. What I'm trying to explain to you is New York and Los Angeles are also giant networking regions. Yes, lots of mainstream artists go out there to expand their audience. Where I'm arguing is that you can't seem to distinguish between already-established artists from other regions going out there to build a bigger audience and new artists from said regions going there to break their careers. I'd used Joe as an example because he's one of the more major out-of-towners doing business out there and his last album flopped. He was still as a much a victim of industry politics and bullshit as any of these other artists. That's my point. Lots of major succesful artists fuck with Miami. We know. They also reside in Los Angeles. There's also a lot of cats who network in these places whose careers don't get off the ground. The music industry is vicious and no amount of talent is a guarantee for success.

Third, talking about Eminem (Detroit) and 50's (New York) songs have nothing to do with "Dre solo albums."  

Last I checked Doggystyle wasn't a "Dre solo album" either.

how Dre and Storch co-produced a few tracks on "The Documentary" doesn't count as a "Dre album" lol.  Swizz Beatz was on there and Cool & Dre did the biggest track "Hate It Or Love It" and "Put You On The Game" was a Timbaland track so where you come off calling that a "Dre allbum" is my guess is maybe you weren't able to buy it over there to see the credits?  

 You might be on to something. I must have bought a different version of "Documentary" where I live because I don't see Swizz Beatz in the production credits for "Documentary". Which song did he produce again?

As for Dre's involvement? Game was not being promoted as the new artist under Timbaland or Cool & Dre, now was he? This promotion was built around him being "Dre's new protege from Compton". Hence, the low-rider photo shoot with he and Dre in Compton. His first XXL cover was him as part of Dre's Aftermath crew. All of the label's attempts at jump-off singles were produced by Dr. Dre. Outside of the Internet, nearly nobody had heard anything but the Dre-produced singles until the project was physically released.

And since you're still milking this brilliant "I live in Europe" theory of yours, where exactly do you think I could live out there where I wouldn't be able to buy "The Documentary"?

Dre has 2 solo albums and his last release was in 1999 and his first one was in 1992.

Dr. Dre is a producer. Yes, he also occasionally works as an artist but his bread & butter is producing. His artistic and creative value isn't based on his solo projects. It's based on his track record as a producer. Allow me to pose this question: Would you rather have Dre's paychecks from his NWA Days to 1999 or from 2000-now?

FYI, Dre & Jimmy wouldnt even agree to release Busta's new album so he walked out.

That's not how it's been reported. That's not how Busta himself explains it. What's your source on this?

Hittman left on bad terms with no album.

Again, according to who? Hittman got to leave with his album. Despite this, I've still heard very little from him in terms of new projects or interviews. I did read an interview around 2004 or 2005 where he made no mention of leaving on bad terms.

Rakim had shit recorded but Dre didn't think it was up to his 12 year standard.

Well, welcome to the industry, my friend. Did you think Bad Boy releases projects that don't meet Puffy's standards? And since we're talk about rappers "east of St. Louis", why is Rakim in this conversation? If I bring up 50 or Eminem, it's not about that but suddenly, Rakim doesn't qualify. Isn't he from New York or do special circumstances exist here because Dre didn't make him a millionaire?

Bishop Lamont lost the best years of his career with no album because (pull out your map again) Interscope put their energy into rap music east of the Mississippi.

Interscope put their money where the buzz was. If it was all just some geographical issue, why did Rakim not go instead of Game? Why did 50 Cent go before Obie Trice? Why is Cashis on Shady Records still and Obie isn't? Record labels put their money on the artists they think will make them the most return on their investment. It's not just Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre sitting in some fucking room, saying "Who should we release from the label and who should we make a star?". Iovine has teams of executives and P.R. people who research what resonates with consumers and what doesn't. I'm not saying this is a perfect way to run business and like all companies, they fuck up from time to time, but it's not like they just look up the artist's region on a map and say, "Well, he's from Passadena. We're gonna have to drop him."

Finally, you never had an answer for what's gone on in the late 2000's...

 I'm pretty sure I mentioned this little thing about the #1-selling rap album from last year being produced by Dre's label.

you said Bishop Lamont's career is better now because he's more well known? Well, my friend, if you mentioned Bishop Lamont to rap fans in Florida or New York you would get laughed at because nobody listens to that shit!

I guess it would depend entirely on who I asked, now wouldn't it? Generally speaking though, if someone laughs at an artist's name, it would suggest that it's either a really funny name or they are FAMILIAR with the artist. For instance, if I were to tell people I listened to Soulja Boy, they might laugh. If he was an artist that was less known, they would just look at me funny and ask who he was. Either way, it would depend entirely on the taste of the person in question or are you trying to imply that you are so all-knowing that you now what every rap listener on the East Coast listens to?

[Tutlock]

DRE is a PUSSY!

That foo probably regret's leaving Ruthless Records, fucken fag!

yeah i bet he does.and he wants to put all the millions he´s earned since then into jerry heller´s pockets. he´s so sorry he signed snoop, dogg pound, eminem and was part in numerous albums that have changed not just rap but music history in the last two decades since his stupid decision to leave a label that wasn´t giving him what he thought he deserved. i bet he´s crying his eyes out every night. and eazy would be still hating dre and making diss songs, "real mothafuckin g´z part 531" would be released next month. stupid dre, stupid stupid stupid dre.

[Dre-Day]

DRE is a PUSSY!

That foo probably regret's leaving Ruthless Records, fucken fag!

yeah i bet he does.and he wants to put all the millions he´s earned since then into jerry heller´s pockets. he´s so sorry he signed snoop, dogg pound, eminem and was part in numerous albums that have changed not just rap but music history in the last two decades since his stupid decision to leave a label that wasn´t giving him what he thought he deserved. i bet he´s crying his eyes out every night. and eazy would be still hating dre and making diss songs, "real mothafuckin g´z part 531" would be released next month. stupid dre, stupid stupid stupid dre.

anyway, that conversation between Jimmy H & love33 is funny
i've got to give credit to love33 for trying

[ikke]

Mannie Fresh is there (who has produced more hit records than Dr. Dre)

LMAO

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

is there another mannie fresh besides the one that was down wit cash money?  
as dope as mannie is......he wont come close to dretox level of anythin.....be easy doggs

Mannie Fresh is there (who has produced more hit records than Dr. Dre)

LMAO

[Jaydc]

Mannie Fresh is there (who has produced more hit records than Dr. Dre)

LMAO

You know as much as love33 is an idiot Im sure if you looked at their careers fresh probably does have more hits sadly.Hes not a new producer hes been around for a long time now.

[ikke]

Mannie Fresh is there (who has produced more hit records than Dr. Dre)

LMAO

You know as much as love33 is an idiot Im sure if you looked at their careers fresh probably does have more hits sadly.Hes not a new producer hes been around for a long time now.

I really doubt it.
Some small Cash Money Hits & T.I's Do it is all I could find.

[Jaydc]

Mannie Fresh is there (who has produced more hit records than Dr. Dre)

LMAO

You know as much as love33 is an idiot Im sure if you looked at their careers fresh probably does have more hits sadly.Hes not a new producer hes been around for a long time now.

I really doubt it.
Some small Cash Money Hits & T.I's Do it is all I could find.

The guy produced every single cashmoney song up until hje left,and to say they were small hits is absurd.just off the top of my head,bling bling,back dat azz up,go dj,cash money is an army,ha,still fly,hood rich,get your roll on,i need a hot girl,on fire,tha block is hot, the list goes on and on for hits fro cash money,he produced all of them.They reguarly went multi platinum.

As for other people off the top of my head he did big things poppin for ti,diamonds for slim thug,top back and front to back for ti,and then what for young jeezy

[ikke]

Mannie Fresh is there (who has produced more hit records than Dr. Dre)

LMAO

You know as much as love33 is an idiot Im sure if you looked at their careers fresh probably does have more hits sadly.Hes not a new producer hes been around for a long time now.

I really doubt it.
Some small Cash Money Hits & T.I's Do it is all I could find.

The guy produced every single cashmoney song up until hje left,and to say they were small hits is absurd.just off the top of my head,bling bling,back dat azz up,go dj,cash money is an army,ha,still fly,hood rich,get your roll on,i need a hot girl,on fire,tha block is hot, the list goes on and on for hits fro cash money,he produced all of them.They reguarly went multi platinum.

As for other people off the top of my head he did big things poppin for ti,diamonds for slim thug,top back and front to back for ti,and then what for young jeezy

If we're talking just sales isn't dre the obvious victor?

But when actually talking top 40 singles in the us dre takes it easily

[Jaydc]

I wouldnt say obvious,Id say theres a good chance mannie fresh has him beat on both accounts though it could go either way.Cash money wasnt some small label,almost all their albums went multi platinum and mannie fresh produced every single song from them.Mannie has probably produced more songs in total then dre as well.

[fabtoxicp]

sean puffy combs, jermaine dupri, swizz beatz, the neptunes, timbaland, mannie fresh ALL produced way more hits than Dr. Dre, yes