Re: My Thoughts on Train of Thoughts

[Nostromoo]

This is a continuation of the thread in The Shack

I've reposted it to Train of Thought because I feels it's getting slightly of topic for the shack. If you want to contribute it's all good.

True, there are a lot of Muslims. But what I was really saying is that because the forum has its roots in rap/hip hop etc., and you don't have to be any one particular religion to enjoy that, you get all sorts of religions accessing the board. Maybe as a percentage there are more Muslims than anything else but that's not a bad thing is it? And I can say 100% that not everyone in the forum is a Muslim so there is still diversity.

I question whether you've really studied Islam.  And not speaking directly to any one Muslim at this board, I also question whether alot of the Muslims who were born into their religion have really taken any real time to go back and study it besides what they were told as a kid.

Christianity teaches you that faith is believing when common sense tells you not to.  Islam REJECTS that idealogy.  Faith comes through truth, knowledge, practice, understanding, and clear direction.   To say all religions are based on faith is a distorted vision of the truth.  Islam encourages you to question the Holy Qur'an; and anything you are taught can be explained through reason.  

Islam is FACT.  It is a fact that we were created or we wouldn't be here.  And it is a fact that even the tiniest, most miniscule atom is yet dependant on something else.  We are all dependent on a higher power, the most high, the Creator and sustainer of all things.  Man is just a grain of salt on a pool table.  And you are lying to yourself if you think yourself wise and powerful enough to where you are exempt from the need of Allah's devine giudance.  Even if you were to reach a life-time of reasoned out conclusions you would still lack the conviction to carry out those conclusions.

Islam is FACT.  Islam is not the religion of any person, place or time period.  Islam is the natural religion of all things.  Even the sun and the moon are both Muslims because they submit their will to devine guidance, and follow a course that is prescribed and devine.  All people, in all times that submitted their will and love to a Creator who is One, where Muslims, even before their was the word "Muslims".

The Qur'an was revealed by Allah at a fixed time in our evolution where our collective understanding had reached a level high enough to accept and contemplate these revelations. Advanced Muslims have used computers to make books showing how every surah in the Qur'an is a factor of 19.  The word man and woman are used the exact same amount of times.  There are thousands more examples like this.  There were no computers back then.  But as Allah says in the Holy Qur'an, "I used the number 19 so that ye could be certain."

In answer to your questions no I have never studied Islam however I don't quite see you're point about Islam not being faith based. If Islam could be proved then why is it not the single universally accepted religion? The truth is is cannot be proved. You cannot prove the the theory of evolution is wrong in the same way you cannot prove it is right in the same way you cannot prove God or Allah created the world and all the peoples in it. Obviously there must be a single answer and it is up to a persons faith to tell him which one is right.

I too believe that one should study their Holy book (whatever it may be). However, I do not hold with the idea that everything in it is fact and can be proven. I honestly don't see how you can have a religion without an element of faith.

[Trauma-san]

Religions are all so similar, it's crazy to argue differences.  It's much more productive to build off of common ground... I've found in my life, that whenever people of 1 faith accuse people of another faith of something (whatever it is), generally, their own religion does the same exact thing, and holds the same flaw, as they perceive it.  Especially, ESPECIALLY converts.  They always want to bash other churches.  I see it at church all the time, when somebody new joins the church, all they want to do is tell us how bad the baptist church down the street is, or something.  Apply that however you want.  

[Nostromoo]

Religions are all so similar, it's crazy to argue differences.  It's much more productive to build off of common ground... I've found in my life, that whenever people of 1 faith accuse people of another faith of something (whatever it is), generally, their own religion does the same exact thing, and holds the same flaw, as they perceive it.  Especially, ESPECIALLY converts.  They always want to bash other churches.  I see it at church all the time, when somebody new joins the church, all they want to do is tell us how bad the baptist church down the street is, or something.  Apply that however you want.  

I hear what you're saying. It is sad that in life people always concentrate on differences rather than working on building up common ground.

But I don't think religions are actually all that similar. Sure some are quite similar on the surface but there are some fundamental differences. Take for example Christianity and Judaism. Essentially if Christian belief is right and Jesus really was the Son of God and it means the Jews really did forsake him (and let him be killed) and that's obviously a bad thing. However, if the Jewish faith is right and the Son of God has not yet come to Earth then Christians have been wasting their time for nigh on 2000 years. And the more you examine each religion there are more and more subtle yet fundamental differences.

From my own viewpoint, I'm quite happy to reasses my faith based upon any new information (after all, I can only believe what I know currently and thus what I suppose also to be true). Personally I could never denounce someone else's faith because their faith is probably just as strong as my own and in the absence of proof just as true to them as my own is to me.

The point I don't understand in Infinite's post is how he say say Islam is fact. I'm sure Infinite does believe it but he surely can't expect everyone to believe it especially as it cannot be proved. After all without faith religion is meaningless. If you could prove a particular religion then eveyone with half a brain would believe it. Similarly, if you could prove the theory that all life on the planet really did just randomly evolve in a puddle then no one would believe in a God. I'm not trying to diss Infinite, so I appologise if it sounds like I am, I just want to understand his reasoning.