Slaughterhouse to Shady being blocked by e1 and amalgam digital?

[Invincible]

How can you not like that Knuckleheadz beat?
CL Is one of the best produced albums

That Rakim beat is pretty dope as well.

pretty average in my book; i know if Slaughterhouse had them, they wouldn't get such love.

I know I would much rather hear SH over that Knuckleheadz beat than any STREETRUNNER beat. Can't stand his recent productions.

you mean any of the two? one being "Sound Off", which was a fine beat.

lemme just go through the whole album while i'm at it lol.

Sound Off - can't see the complaints
Lyrical Murderers - dark sound to it, bangs hard; again, can't see the hate.
Mircophone - arguably the best beat of '09.
Not Tonight - basically stole the beat to Joe Budden's "Now I Lay" on Padded Room; i can see how people could hate on it.
The One - got a Rock feel to it; i guess if you're not down with that, it just wouldn't appeal.
Cuckoo - another banger, you don't have to call it great, but i don't see how it's bad.
Onslaught 2 - beautiful beat lol.
Salute - slowed down, deep feel; Mr. Porter came through on this one.
Pray - another good beat.
Cut You Loose - ANOTHER good beat.
Raindrops - really fit into the theme of the song, deep feel, one of the best beats on the album.
Killaz - another dark beat that fit the flows of them four & easily gets a thumbs up.

so as it stands, i'm counting one beat that i would say is bad ("Not Tonight") & for some "The One"; if you guys disagree, feel free to state your case lol.

STREETRUNNERS beats have way to much going on in them which makes them extremely hard to listen too. Sound Off had the same sample used by Pete Rock and it was nowhere near the level of that. And Not Tonight is just boring.

As for the rest, Cuckoo is horrible and Killaz and Raindrops are just boring. And I actually like The One, but its just mixed awfully.

The only tracks I still give a listen to on the album are:

Lyrical Murderers
Microphone (Agree, 1 of the tracks of the year)
The One
Salute
Pray
Cut You Loose

That for me makes it an average album.

fair enough lol.

you always came off as a big "beat" guy; you run shit over in the instrumentals section, don't you?

I do run that yer but I still put up some wack instrumentals. For some artists and producers I'm a completist which means I get hold of some wack ones so I'm not perfect. 

But for real the whole album just doesn't do it for me. And judging from other peoples opinions, I'm not the only one. Maybe I'm to stuck in the 90's. There aren't many up and coming or producers that started this century that I really feel.

[Jimmy H.]

why are all these quotes being taken out of context? lmao.

I wasn't directly quoting anyone so you can't really say I was taking something out of context but the basic response was coming toward the line of thinking displayed here.

oh damn your from the east and you sayin biggie is overrated....damn well good lookin cuz not jus him but hes one of the most overrated of all time...whats so special about him? lol

Like I said it's a West Coast forum and there's generally certain artists whose roles it's cool to underplay while bigging up others who really have accomplished far less but happen to have done so in a more popular region. It's one thing to say I'm not feeling Eminem or Jay-Z or Biggie because their content doesn't appeal to me which it's cool in itself but it seems more like a personal preference thing. Terms like "overrated" shouldn't apply here. That's more a comment on a majority misconception of someone's skills or talent. I think some folks have trouble with any artist that isn't West Coast who has a "pop crossover commercial hit". Even our man, Pac said, "Don't have to bump this but please respect it". Basically, you don't have to be a fan of the content but at least, appreciate the talent it took to create it.

[Jaydc]

Nobody casn deny ready to die is a classic album and nobody can deny biggie is an amazing artist.BUT,I think the problem most people have is that hes viewed as one of the best ever,if not the best when he wasnt around long enough to dignify that.Because life after death was a step backwards from his first album,whos to say he wouldnt have fallen off?Where as pac seemed to get stronger every album with makavelli is best lyrical album he had released.I can agree biggie was amazing and its a shame he wasnt around longer but I cant crown an artist who only has two albums.

[Matty]

the thing i don't get is shady = interscope = jimmy iovine.

it is highly unlikely SH would get to release any material commercially through this platform, which would anger fans. maybe they are just looking for the signing on fee plus the ability to leak new material that they work on. but really, it should be common sense and not another label that is stopping them from striking a deal.

[Jimmy H.]

Nobody casn deny ready to die is a classic album and nobody can deny biggie is an amazing artist.BUT,I think the problem most people have is that hes viewed as one of the best ever,if not the best when he wasnt around long enough to dignify that.Because life after death was a step backwards from his first album,whos to say he wouldnt have fallen off?Where as pac seemed to get stronger every album with makavelli is best lyrical album he had released.I can agree biggie was amazing and its a shame he wasnt around longer but I cant crown an artist who only has two albums.

I think it's quality over quanity. The material Big put out can be put up against the best of any other artist in the rap game and hold its own. I don't think the length of one's discography holds as much merit as we all like to give it. N.W.A. is very rarely dismissed in the "greatest group of all-time" category and almost never called overrated around here. They only really put out two albums and the second one didn't have Cube. While the production evolved, their content, in my opinion, suffered in Cube's absence.

As for Pac, it's always gonna be that comparison when Big comes up and again, it's a hard one to have with people who can't remove personal tastes from the equation. Pac didn't get stronger with every album. "All Eyez On Me" is a drastic drop-off from "Me Against The World" but how do you have that argument on an album that features every nearly every classic Death Row performer as well as tons of beloved West Coast favorites like C-Bo, Rappin' 4-Tay, and Dru Down? It also has some of his most popular singles. But as an album it is fucking cluttered as hell. It's fun party music but for all of the songs that on their own grounds are classics, there is also quite a bit of filler and I don't think it plays nearly as well as the album before it or the one that follows it. There's at least three or four songs that were already finished for other projects that Pac came and added his vocals to. Obviously, this is a very impressive album for how quickly it was put together and it shows both Pac's amazing work ethic and his genius but it also tends to allow a lot of the album's flaws to get a pass. I think it's easily one of his least personal records.

Pac is without question, one of the best rappers ever and probably my favorite of all-time but in playing devil's advocate, he was flawed as both a human being and as an artist. But that is reality. Nobody is perfect. Not Pac. Not Dre. Not DJ Quik. Not Michael Jackson. Not Quincy Jones. As far as arguing if Big would have fallen off, that's not even debatable. Every artist is going to fall off in some way because every fan has a different reason why they love that artist. Eventually after doing eight or nine albums over the course of however many years, even the very best artist is going to have creative issues with his public. Times and trends will change and everyone will embrace it differently. I mean, there are people who genuinelly believe that if Tupac was alive, music would still sound like it did between 1994 and 96. And the thing is if Pac was alive, he'd be judged a little more harshly as well because his death would not have put him on this pedistle where he currently resides.

I think with Pac, there's a lot more to pick from but I also think he had the advantage of not getting it right away. "Doggystyle", "Ready To Die", and "Illmatic" were all classics. "2Pacalypse Now" and "Stricly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z." are not. I think Pac's most emotionally-involving songs ("Brenda's Got A Baby" and "Keep Ya Head Up") are on there but artistically, he was still finding his way. From interviews with people he worked with at the time, he seemed aware of this and I think that might have even been what helped in molding his work ethic into what it became. I think if you look at 1991-96 and all the moves and changes Pac went through, nobody can even venture to guess where he'd be in as close a time frame to his death as say, 1998. Death Row was like eleven months of that man's life. Most fans define him by that period but realistically, the guy got out of prison and never really had much time to reflect on it. Who can say where he'd be today?

Alright, I've not only rambled way off the Slaughterhouse topic but also the Biggie sub-topic. Sorry for all that but I think it's important to kind of throw everything into perspective. Yes, Biggie only made this much music in that much time but he was a major influence. Perhaps his death added something to that but there are plenty of others who die young in the industry who don't have that kind of legacy.     

[Chamillitary Click]

how can you say "quantity over quality" but Tupac was nothing but quality.

it's as simple as this, Biggie wasn't around long enough to be considered the "greatest of all time"; especially with just one classic album.

it's like if LeBron James had a career ending injury today, you can't just say "oh, he's the greatest ever, he would of won rings & would have broken records". he just wouldn't have been around long enough to be considered "the greatest".

he was dope, but greatest? Pac, Nas, Cube, Scarface? all got hundreds of songs with mulitple classic albums; Biggie's got one.

i don't see how you can judge the greatest of something on a hypothetical situation.

[Jimmy H.]

Well, in my opinion, Big had 2 classics under his hat and to me, it ain't how long you stay in the game but the impact you leave and Big left a giant mark. I think sports is one thing but entertainment and creativety is a whole other plateau in itself and you can't judge it the same. Lebron can only to do it as long as he's physically able to hang with the youngsters but music and movies and entertainment, it's no expiration date on doing that. You're only done when they fit you for a toe tag or the public just doesn't care anymore. In the case of Biggie, it was the former but he said a lot in the time that he had.

With Biggie, he was just on whole other level. He carved his niche in the industry. Period. It's not hypothetical at all. He defined that era of music for his region. It's not even a question mark there. It's like Dre and Snoop. Once they did, "Chronic" and "Doggystyle" back to back, they were gonna forever be remembered for that whether they reunited on "2001" or not. That is one of the greatest rapper-producer duos in music and that was established in a window of about two or three years. And it's different rules for everybody. One rapper might make one classic album but that album forever changes the way rap music is made.

I think when it came to just how he rapped, Big was something else. That flow was legendary, man. I mean, and we can say it like this. As good as Face or Nas and however many albums they had, I don't think they had the crossover hits in their catalog. My brain is a little spent on how to describe this exactly right because this isn't a sales or club spins argument, I'm talking about how Big's music reasonates within the culture here. There's artists/groups that only knock out one or two albums before they either die or dissapear and they aren't nearly as celebrated as Biggie and there's a reason for that. Some might be of the opinion that he got put up there because of whatever controversy or what not but his catalog is still going strong. As far as pure flow and his charisma and how he did things, I just don't see any in his league. Maybe people don't agree but it's past an album count with me on this one.

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

cham i feel you....whether or not pac and biggie still be makin muzik...pac was a better rapper and he proved that....
but the sh album should have been much...much better...too much hype and it didnt live up to the hype but more importantly to what they could and should have done before....they are capable of doin more than that
and cham who do you think was more commercial or makin muzik for the ladies...outta biggie n pac?

[Chamillitary Click]

^obviously Biggie lol.

& since you think Biggie is such a huge name/impact, etc., you can thank Mr. Tupac Shakur for that lol.

the beef put Biggie on another planet; the fact he was even fucking with Pac made him larger than life, no pun intended.

the guy was the butt-end of arguably the greatest diss track in rap history, was killed in to what some believe is "retaliation" for the death of Pac.

the fact that when you said Tupac's name, the first thing you thought was "Tupac vs. Biggie".

Big was great, but then you put him against the greatest & factor in all the exposure Pac gave him & the fact he is one of the few rappers gunned down & was the Hip Hop voice of the greatest state in the country ( ) & what you really have is just hype all bottled together that gives off the aura of being "GOAT".

i don't think Big could scratch the top 5.

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

he shouldnt scratch the top 10...even

[Chamillitary Click]

he shouldnt scratch the top 10...even

Tupac
Nas
Eminem
Ice Cube
Scarface
Big L

he doesn't touch that six for me, but maybe seventh lol.

[Action!]

Y'all going hard at Biggie but Pac sold out the most in comparison to roots.    True story. 


Who do you all place in top ten?

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

biggie was overrated action...big time
in my top ten...scarface, krs one, rakim, 2pac, gza, ...have to be in there....and add wc...and the rest i have to think about....
i have a couple that will remain unnamed...lol
but you need to state where your from...so we can see if your bein biased...lol

and anyone one of you puttin jay-z in the top 25 are done...lol
real talk tho by jay and infinite

Definitely Royce. He had some of his best one-liners on that track, and he can match Eminem in flow, intensity, and style where Jay-Z just comes off like a plain.

This is something Ive never understood about why Jay z gets put in with greatest of all time talk.Whenever he does a song with other big name artists he ALWAYS gets outshined.Hell he even got outshined on that song with TI lil wayne and kanye.Kanye west murders Jay z on his own sgons all the time,as does beanie sigel.

[Action!]

it depends on how you do top ten I guess

because cats like pac, jay, biggie deserve top ten if you talk about from cultural impact.  you can't name 3 bigger artists than them who have contributed to hip-hop with relative longevity.  hate all you want on jay's artistic merits but it's the truth.

but, i'm a just go off personal top ten because that's the only real legit way to do it without factoring in too much

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

but lyrically we are talkin...rakims disco isnt the best in 30 years...lol....but lyrically hes a beast
so the rest dont count or that would be a seperate list...but lyrically talkin here
crooked dont have a album...all he got is a billboard...does that make him wack? lol
and as far as jay's muzik...its not the best muzik to say its all classic or hes a dope rapper always...nah hes not..hes a businessman who also raps and has rapped for years but very overrated
but lyrically IMO pac would and did eat jay and biggie alive...and dead...lol