Jason Campbell headed to Oakland

[M Dogg™]

you are comparing two completely different things. I'll give you Moss, because WR is actually the most depended position in the NFL. Without a good system, a WR is useless. Without a line, the QB has no time, and at the time the Raiders had Aaron Brooks, so there was no one to get the ball to Moss. That was clearly a case of a WR being on a bad team.

Russell is different. The Raiders had one of the best running games in the league. One year, the line was so good under Kiffen that JUSTIN FUCKIN' VARGAS... LITTLE HUGGIE BOY gain 1,000 yards, and the Raider's line dominated. Russell was asked to be the leader. I understood the first couple of years, but when you get out played by Bruce Gradkowski, an undrafted journey man, and you are suppose to be the number 1 draft pick, then there is something completely wrong. Case close

It is completely hatred to think that the Raiders are the reason to think JaMarcus is 300 pounds. Dude needed to sit out and demand a trade if he was that mad, but instead he caused the Raiders to make a trade for a QB. Here is the point of how stupid Russell is, dude could have got in shape, demanded a trade and that his not playing for the Raiders, people will say, hey look his trying but who can do it with the Raiders, he'd get traded for dirt cheap and have a new team and keep his 9 million salary. Instead he got fat, said fuck it, and then the Raiders got Campbell and now no one will trade for him, and if the Raiders end up cutting him, his 9 million dollars short, and you know Al will sue him for his bonus back. Russell had it made and he fucked it up, and I am telling you right now, he cost himself 9 million dollars. It's all about dollars and sense, and dude's lack of sense cost him major dollars.

No. Russel is the reason he's 300 lbs. The Raiders just had an environment that let him do whatever he wanted. Just like Big Ben is the reason he likes to go around with an entourage get drunk and have sex with even drunker girls. The Raiders would have let him go further and he would have done worse things. That is my theory.

It's like how if a wild party althlete was signed to NY or Miami and got in trouble partying. But if he was signed by Green Bay there would be no wild parties to get him in trouble.

Jesus. Look at Randy Moss for Christ sakes. A fucking star in Minnesota goes to Oakland and stinks it up. Then goes back to a real organization and gets the TD record, and remains a star when a QB who hadn't started since high school came in.

Case closed boys. Oakland can make the best WR in the era look like junk, so I think they can make Russel worse too.

So when Brady went out in 08 you think Cassel stepped up as leader? He didn't. Moss was way more a leader on that Pats team that year. He really stepped up. In Oakland it was about a lot more than a QB not having time. Moss was going soft on route, not trying hard to get the ball. He was uninspired. Aaron Brooks could have easily punted the ball and let Moss jump up over two DBs and catch it, but Moss, thanks to the wonderful Raiders organization had no fire. He was allowed to be whatever he wanted. Something Dennis Green and Bill Belicheck don't allow of their players with out putting up a fight. In Oakland you're so busy trying to keep your job as a coach and dealing with Al that you don't bother with your players.

See, you are talking about things that go on, but at the same time by this logic we'd have no 1,000 running back because they'd be uninspired, we'd have a shitty defense, which we don't, and we'd have horrible cornerbacks, which last I check we have the best two CBs in the league. Randy Moss was uninspired his last 2 years in MN, you forget I live in MN, and people were begging to trade him because of how bad he was his last two years, and he carried that over to Oakland. Moss came to life in New England because it was a winning situation and he knew this was his chance. The Raiders will not be mistaken for that in the mid to late 2000's.

But the Raiders the last 3-4 years have had a great running game, one of the best defenses, a pro-bowl caliber tightend, and a huge bully offensive line. Russell was given the keys to the franchise, which I'd honestly say we should have developed him more. I think the biggest mistake was letting Culpepper go, because if we kept Culpepper, Russell would have someone to learn from, not just shadowing but what a good QB leader does. I am a believer that young QBs need someone to show them the ropes, which Russell only had his first year and he spent most of that first year sitting out of training camp. So in that aspect the Raiders did Russell a disservice. But the rest is pure Russell.

I want you to honestly tell me, which would Russell more likely do in his spare time, work out like other NFL players, who most every franchise trust to work out on their own, or would Russell try to eat all of....
[img]http://17.media.tumblr.com/i2dw5nf19o302zzcRu7VfNVdo1_500.jpg/img]

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy

[Shallow]

you are comparing two completely different things. I'll give you Moss, because WR is actually the most depended position in the NFL. Without a good system, a WR is useless. Without a line, the QB has no time, and at the time the Raiders had Aaron Brooks, so there was no one to get the ball to Moss. That was clearly a case of a WR being on a bad team.

Russell is different. The Raiders had one of the best running games in the league. One year, the line was so good under Kiffen that JUSTIN FUCKIN' VARGAS... LITTLE HUGGIE BOY gain 1,000 yards, and the Raider's line dominated. Russell was asked to be the leader. I understood the first couple of years, but when you get out played by Bruce Gradkowski, an undrafted journey man, and you are suppose to be the number 1 draft pick, then there is something completely wrong. Case close

It is completely hatred to think that the Raiders are the reason to think JaMarcus is 300 pounds. Dude needed to sit out and demand a trade if he was that mad, but instead he caused the Raiders to make a trade for a QB. Here is the point of how stupid Russell is, dude could have got in shape, demanded a trade and that his not playing for the Raiders, people will say, hey look his trying but who can do it with the Raiders, he'd get traded for dirt cheap and have a new team and keep his 9 million salary. Instead he got fat, said fuck it, and then the Raiders got Campbell and now no one will trade for him, and if the Raiders end up cutting him, his 9 million dollars short, and you know Al will sue him for his bonus back. Russell had it made and he fucked it up, and I am telling you right now, he cost himself 9 million dollars. It's all about dollars and sense, and dude's lack of sense cost him major dollars.

No. Russel is the reason he's 300 lbs. The Raiders just had an environment that let him do whatever he wanted. Just like Big Ben is the reason he likes to go around with an entourage get drunk and have sex with even drunker girls. The Raiders would have let him go further and he would have done worse things. That is my theory.

It's like how if a wild party althlete was signed to NY or Miami and got in trouble partying. But if he was signed by Green Bay there would be no wild parties to get him in trouble.

Jesus. Look at Randy Moss for Christ sakes. A fucking star in Minnesota goes to Oakland and stinks it up. Then goes back to a real organization and gets the TD record, and remains a star when a QB who hadn't started since high school came in.

Case closed boys. Oakland can make the best WR in the era look like junk, so I think they can make Russel worse too.

So when Brady went out in 08 you think Cassel stepped up as leader? He didn't. Moss was way more a leader on that Pats team that year. He really stepped up. In Oakland it was about a lot more than a QB not having time. Moss was going soft on route, not trying hard to get the ball. He was uninspired. Aaron Brooks could have easily punted the ball and let Moss jump up over two DBs and catch it, but Moss, thanks to the wonderful Raiders organization had no fire. He was allowed to be whatever he wanted. Something Dennis Green and Bill Belicheck don't allow of their players with out putting up a fight. In Oakland you're so busy trying to keep your job as a coach and dealing with Al that you don't bother with your players.

See, you are talking about things that go on, but at the same time by this logic we'd have no 1,000 running back because they'd be uninspired, we'd have a shitty defense, which we don't, and we'd have horrible cornerbacks, which last I check we have the best two CBs in the league. Randy Moss was uninspired his last 2 years in MN, you forget I live in MN, and people were begging to trade him because of how bad he was his last two years, and he carried that over to Oakland. Moss came to life in New England because it was a winning situation and he knew this was his chance. The Raiders will not be mistaken for that in the mid to late 2000's.

But the Raiders the last 3-4 years have had a great running game, one of the best defenses, a pro-bowl caliber tightend, and a huge bully offensive line. Russell was given the keys to the franchise, which I'd honestly say we should have developed him more. I think the biggest mistake was letting Culpepper go, because if we kept Culpepper, Russell would have someone to learn from, not just shadowing but what a good QB leader does. I am a believer that young QBs need someone to show them the ropes, which Russell only had his first year and he spent most of that first year sitting out of training camp. So in that aspect the Raiders did Russell a disservice. But the rest is pure Russell.

I want you to honestly tell me, which would Russell more likely do in his spare time, work out like other NFL players, who most every franchise trust to work out on their own, or would Russell try to eat all of....
[img]http://17.media.tumblr.com/i2dw5nf19o302zzcRu7VfNVdo1_500.jpg/img]

Last two years? His second last year in Minnesota was a career year for him, and in his last year he missed 3 games but was on pace for 1000 yards and another 17 TDs. You call those so bad he needs a trade numbers? He came into Oakland pretty decent, but by year two was a less than average WR.

And the point I made about the Oakland was they let you get away with shit that you do anyway. Peyton Manning is a war horse work a holic. If he went to Oakland he'd be fine. But a slacker becomes a bigger slacker, and a rapist becomes a killer, or whatever. You can still have great players who are always dedicated players no matter what. Bu if you're a star with a risk of going Hollywood then Oakland is the worst place for you. Moss is a diva, so going to Oakland helped him find more coke and more Bobby Browns, if you get the analogy.

Hardworking players with everything to lose will still work hard because they are afraid of losing their spot. Guys like Russel and Moss just assume they're stars. It's their personality. But superstars that are work horses, like Jerry Rice do fine.


P.S. you guys didn't have more than 3 1000 rushers this decade and no one has broken 1050 since Napoleon Kaufman in 1997. Unless I'm missing someone.

[M Dogg™]

but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy

Okay, when he was drafted, they had Kiffen as his coach, they only changed coaches to Cable, who ran the EXACT same system. Also, they had the same offensive coordinator, and then this year hired a QB coach to help develop him further, a coach who just developed Joe Flacco. This decade, yeah you can argue from Gannon to Collins to Aaron Brooks to Culpepper to Jamarcus Russell, and from Gruden to Callahan to Turner to Shell to Kiffen to Cable that the Raiders have had a horrible time building a franchise, but during the Russell era there was actually a bit of stability and the Raiders didn't touch their system.

[you gon always be my latin queen bitch]

thats alot to deal wit tho.....put money on it gruden could get him back and make him a good player....if that dont work then.....no further options...
off topic but on topic in gruden regards......IMO gruden is one of the best @ guidin, coachin, teachin etc....he needs to get back to coachin....the raiders didnt appreciate him.....and didnt he win a superbowl with tampa bay? lol

but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy

Okay, when he was drafted, they had Kiffen as his coach, they only changed coaches to Cable, who ran the EXACT same system. Also, they had the same offensive coordinator, and then this year hired a QB coach to help develop him further, a coach who just developed Joe Flacco. This decade, yeah you can argue from Gannon to Collins to Aaron Brooks to Culpepper to Jamarcus Russell, and from Gruden to Callahan to Turner to Shell to Kiffen to Cable that the Raiders have had a horrible time building a franchise, but during the Russell era there was actually a bit of stability and the Raiders didn't touch their system.

[Shallow]

but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy

Okay, when he was drafted, they had Kiffen as his coach, they only changed coaches to Cable, who ran the EXACT same system. Also, they had the same offensive coordinator, and then this year hired a QB coach to help develop him further, a coach who just developed Joe Flacco. This decade, yeah you can argue from Gannon to Collins to Aaron Brooks to Culpepper to Jamarcus Russell, and from Gruden to Callahan to Turner to Shell to Kiffen to Cable that the Raiders have had a horrible time building a franchise, but during the Russell era there was actually a bit of stability and the Raiders didn't touch their system.

It was simply the wrong fit for a guy with the personality of Jamarcus Russel. Maybe no matter where he went he'd have turned out the same. Maybe he's that bad when it comes to putting in work, but Oakland is bar none the worst place in the NFL for a guy with inspiration problems. Green Bay would have been a completely different environment for him. They saw the distraction favre had become and they said see ya later. The Jets let Favre be the baby he was and look how that ended up? Minnesota was just so strong a team that Favre's attitude didn't come into play. But in Oakland, Favre would be doing the I'm retiring, I'm not retiring game for the next 10 years and they'd probably still put him out there at 50 because he sells jerseys.

Give the Raiders to Parcells with full control and their in the playoffs by season 2 at the latest.

[M Dogg™]

you are comparing two completely different things. I'll give you Moss, because WR is actually the most depended position in the NFL. Without a good system, a WR is useless. Without a line, the QB has no time, and at the time the Raiders had Aaron Brooks, so there was no one to get the ball to Moss. That was clearly a case of a WR being on a bad team.

Russell is different. The Raiders had one of the best running games in the league. One year, the line was so good under Kiffen that JUSTIN FUCKIN' VARGAS... LITTLE HUGGIE BOY gain 1,000 yards, and the Raider's line dominated. Russell was asked to be the leader. I understood the first couple of years, but when you get out played by Bruce Gradkowski, an undrafted journey man, and you are suppose to be the number 1 draft pick, then there is something completely wrong. Case close

It is completely hatred to think that the Raiders are the reason to think JaMarcus is 300 pounds. Dude needed to sit out and demand a trade if he was that mad, but instead he caused the Raiders to make a trade for a QB. Here is the point of how stupid Russell is, dude could have got in shape, demanded a trade and that his not playing for the Raiders, people will say, hey look his trying but who can do it with the Raiders, he'd get traded for dirt cheap and have a new team and keep his 9 million salary. Instead he got fat, said fuck it, and then the Raiders got Campbell and now no one will trade for him, and if the Raiders end up cutting him, his 9 million dollars short, and you know Al will sue him for his bonus back. Russell had it made and he fucked it up, and I am telling you right now, he cost himself 9 million dollars. It's all about dollars and sense, and dude's lack of sense cost him major dollars.

No. Russel is the reason he's 300 lbs. The Raiders just had an environment that let him do whatever he wanted. Just like Big Ben is the reason he likes to go around with an entourage get drunk and have sex with even drunker girls. The Raiders would have let him go further and he would have done worse things. That is my theory.

It's like how if a wild party althlete was signed to NY or Miami and got in trouble partying. But if he was signed by Green Bay there would be no wild parties to get him in trouble.

Jesus. Look at Randy Moss for Christ sakes. A fucking star in Minnesota goes to Oakland and stinks it up. Then goes back to a real organization and gets the TD record, and remains a star when a QB who hadn't started since high school came in.

Case closed boys. Oakland can make the best WR in the era look like junk, so I think they can make Russel worse too.

So when Brady went out in 08 you think Cassel stepped up as leader? He didn't. Moss was way more a leader on that Pats team that year. He really stepped up. In Oakland it was about a lot more than a QB not having time. Moss was going soft on route, not trying hard to get the ball. He was uninspired. Aaron Brooks could have easily punted the ball and let Moss jump up over two DBs and catch it, but Moss, thanks to the wonderful Raiders organization had no fire. He was allowed to be whatever he wanted. Something Dennis Green and Bill Belicheck don't allow of their players with out putting up a fight. In Oakland you're so busy trying to keep your job as a coach and dealing with Al that you don't bother with your players.

See, you are talking about things that go on, but at the same time by this logic we'd have no 1,000 running back because they'd be uninspired, we'd have a shitty defense, which we don't, and we'd have horrible cornerbacks, which last I check we have the best two CBs in the league. Randy Moss was uninspired his last 2 years in MN, you forget I live in MN, and people were begging to trade him because of how bad he was his last two years, and he carried that over to Oakland. Moss came to life in New England because it was a winning situation and he knew this was his chance. The Raiders will not be mistaken for that in the mid to late 2000's.

But the Raiders the last 3-4 years have had a great running game, one of the best defenses, a pro-bowl caliber tightend, and a huge bully offensive line. Russell was given the keys to the franchise, which I'd honestly say we should have developed him more. I think the biggest mistake was letting Culpepper go, because if we kept Culpepper, Russell would have someone to learn from, not just shadowing but what a good QB leader does. I am a believer that young QBs need someone to show them the ropes, which Russell only had his first year and he spent most of that first year sitting out of training camp. So in that aspect the Raiders did Russell a disservice. But the rest is pure Russell.

I want you to honestly tell me, which would Russell more likely do in his spare time, work out like other NFL players, who most every franchise trust to work out on their own, or would Russell try to eat all of....
[img]http://17.media.tumblr.com/i2dw5nf19o302zzcRu7VfNVdo1_500.jpg/img]

Last two years? His second last year in Minnesota was a career year for him, and in his last year he missed 3 games but was on pace for 1000 yards and another 17 TDs. You call those so bad he needs a trade numbers? He came into Oakland pretty decent, but by year two was a less than average WR.

And the point I made about the Oakland was they let you get away with shit that you do anyway. Peyton Manning is a war horse work a holic. If he went to Oakland he'd be fine. But a slacker becomes a bigger slacker, and a rapist becomes a killer, or whatever. You can still have great players who are always dedicated players no matter what. Bu if you're a star with a risk of going Hollywood then Oakland is the worst place for you. Moss is a diva, so going to Oakland helped him find more coke and more Bobby Browns, if you get the analogy.

Hardworking players with everything to lose will still work hard because they are afraid of losing their spot. Guys like Russel and Moss just assume they're stars. It's their personality. But superstars that are work horses, like Jerry Rice do fine.


P.S. you guys didn't have more than 3 1000 rushers this decade and no one has broken 1050 since Napoleon Kaufman in 1997. Unless I'm missing someone.

well almost 1,000, actual stats for the Raiders during the Russell years.

2007
Fargas - 1,009 yards
LaMonte Jordan - 549 yds.
Rhodes - 302 yds.

2008
Fargas - 853 yds.
McFadden - 499 yds.
Michael Bush - 421 yds.

2009 (Raiders had ton of RB injury problems)
Bush - 589
Fargas - 491
McFadden - 356

[M Dogg™]

but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy

Okay, when he was drafted, they had Kiffen as his coach, they only changed coaches to Cable, who ran the EXACT same system. Also, they had the same offensive coordinator, and then this year hired a QB coach to help develop him further, a coach who just developed Joe Flacco. This decade, yeah you can argue from Gannon to Collins to Aaron Brooks to Culpepper to Jamarcus Russell, and from Gruden to Callahan to Turner to Shell to Kiffen to Cable that the Raiders have had a horrible time building a franchise, but during the Russell era there was actually a bit of stability and the Raiders didn't touch their system.

It was simply the wrong fit for a guy with the personality of Jamarcus Russel. Maybe no matter where he went he'd have turned out the same. Maybe he's that bad when it comes to putting in work, but Oakland is bar none the worst place in the NFL for a guy with inspiration problems. Green Bay would have been a completely different environment for him. They saw the distraction favre had become and they said see ya later. The Jets let Favre be the baby he was and look how that ended up? Minnesota was just so strong a team that Favre's attitude didn't come into play. But in Oakland, Favre would be doing the I'm retiring, I'm not retiring game for the next 10 years and they'd probably still put him out there at 50 because he sells jerseys.

Give the Raiders to Parcells with full control and their in the playoffs by season 2 at the latest.

I don't doubt the Parcells deal, and I am not saying the system is perfect. I'm saying that in any system, Russell right now is not mature enough to be an NFL QB. His only 24 years old, that's WAY too young to be washed up. But for now his not mentally ready to lead an NFL team. Now some QBs excel in this. The QB is unique in that you set the tone, you are responsible to pushing others and leading the team. You can say Moss was effected by the Raiders, but Russell had to be the one influencing others, not the other way around.

[Shallow]

but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy

Okay, when he was drafted, they had Kiffen as his coach, they only changed coaches to Cable, who ran the EXACT same system. Also, they had the same offensive coordinator, and then this year hired a QB coach to help develop him further, a coach who just developed Joe Flacco. This decade, yeah you can argue from Gannon to Collins to Aaron Brooks to Culpepper to Jamarcus Russell, and from Gruden to Callahan to Turner to Shell to Kiffen to Cable that the Raiders have had a horrible time building a franchise, but during the Russell era there was actually a bit of stability and the Raiders didn't touch their system.

It was simply the wrong fit for a guy with the personality of Jamarcus Russel. Maybe no matter where he went he'd have turned out the same. Maybe he's that bad when it comes to putting in work, but Oakland is bar none the worst place in the NFL for a guy with inspiration problems. Green Bay would have been a completely different environment for him. They saw the distraction favre had become and they said see ya later. The Jets let Favre be the baby he was and look how that ended up? Minnesota was just so strong a team that Favre's attitude didn't come into play. But in Oakland, Favre would be doing the I'm retiring, I'm not retiring game for the next 10 years and they'd probably still put him out there at 50 because he sells jerseys.

Give the Raiders to Parcells with full control and their in the playoffs by season 2 at the latest.

I don't doubt the Parcells deal, and I am not saying the system is perfect. I'm saying that in any system, Russell right now is not mature enough to be an NFL QB. His only 24 years old, that's WAY too young to be washed up. But for now his not mentally ready to lead an NFL team. Now some QBs excel in this. The QB is unique in that you set the tone, you are responsible to pushing others and leading the team. You can say Moss was effected by the Raiders, but Russell had to be the one influencing others, not the other way around.

Just because you're the QB doesn't mean you're the leader, or that you have to be the leader. By the second SB Roth maybe have been the leader on offense but in the first SB and in that 15-1 season he was just along for the ride.

I never said Russel ould have been one of the greats if he went somewhere. I said in a better organization he could have been a nice piece to the puzzle. If drafted by Baltimore, Ray Lewis who is more of a team leader than 99% of QBs in history would have still been leader if Russel was there, and you can bet that walking about Baltimore with Ray and Ed Reed, Jamarcus isn't going into any burger joints before practice. And yes I think if on the Ravens the past 3 years he would have started this year, made the playoffs, still have beaten the Pats, and then lost to the Colts, just like they did with Flacco. I'm ot saying he's better than Flacco. I'm saying Russel can win a playoff game going  4 of 10 for 34 yards, no TDs and 1 INT.

[M Dogg™]

LOL... he'd still be a fat lazy piece of shit... he'd just be a fat lazy piece of shit that has Ray Lewis yelling at him and talking shit about him in the media and during practice.

but the fact that they did him wrong or its not completely his fault...is important
does the fact that they change coaches and players so quik have any role in this
qb's: garcia (who didnt even play, why tho when he can prolly still make plays), russell, gannon (was dope, and he has even offered his service to help but davis has said no..lol)
coaches: gruden, kiffin, cable guy

Okay, when he was drafted, they had Kiffen as his coach, they only changed coaches to Cable, who ran the EXACT same system. Also, they had the same offensive coordinator, and then this year hired a QB coach to help develop him further, a coach who just developed Joe Flacco. This decade, yeah you can argue from Gannon to Collins to Aaron Brooks to Culpepper to Jamarcus Russell, and from Gruden to Callahan to Turner to Shell to Kiffen to Cable that the Raiders have had a horrible time building a franchise, but during the Russell era there was actually a bit of stability and the Raiders didn't touch their system.

It was simply the wrong fit for a guy with the personality of Jamarcus Russel. Maybe no matter where he went he'd have turned out the same. Maybe he's that bad when it comes to putting in work, but Oakland is bar none the worst place in the NFL for a guy with inspiration problems. Green Bay would have been a completely different environment for him. They saw the distraction favre had become and they said see ya later. The Jets let Favre be the baby he was and look how that ended up? Minnesota was just so strong a team that Favre's attitude didn't come into play. But in Oakland, Favre would be doing the I'm retiring, I'm not retiring game for the next 10 years and they'd probably still put him out there at 50 because he sells jerseys.

Give the Raiders to Parcells with full control and their in the playoffs by season 2 at the latest.

I don't doubt the Parcells deal, and I am not saying the system is perfect. I'm saying that in any system, Russell right now is not mature enough to be an NFL QB. His only 24 years old, that's WAY too young to be washed up. But for now his not mentally ready to lead an NFL team. Now some QBs excel in this. The QB is unique in that you set the tone, you are responsible to pushing others and leading the team. You can say Moss was effected by the Raiders, but Russell had to be the one influencing others, not the other way around.

Just because you're the QB doesn't mean you're the leader, or that you have to be the leader. By the second SB Roth maybe have been the leader on offense but in the first SB and in that 15-1 season he was just along for the ride.

I never said Russel ould have been one of the greats if he went somewhere. I said in a better organization he could have been a nice piece to the puzzle. If drafted by Baltimore, Ray Lewis who is more of a team leader than 99% of QBs in history would have still been leader if Russel was there, and you can bet that walking about Baltimore with Ray and Ed Reed, Jamarcus isn't going into any burger joints before practice. And yes I think if on the Ravens the past 3 years he would have started this year, made the playoffs, still have beaten the Pats, and then lost to the Colts, just like they did with Flacco. I'm ot saying he's better than Flacco. I'm saying Russel can win a playoff game going  4 of 10 for 34 yards, no TDs and 1 INT.

[Shallow]

Coming to Baltimore he'd never have been the star Oakland pushed him to be. He'd be the don't lose the game and let the defense win QB and that changes everything. Especially when Ray Lewis threatens you with violence in the locker room. Live in your dream world if you want, but Randy Moss is a better leader than anyone Oakland has seen since maybe Ken Stabler and he fell to shit.

Oakland should simply see this as a lesson when they go out and get a player they need to make sure he isn't a star before he gets their. Tom Brady would absolutely fall apart in Oakland if we showed up tomorrow. You know what. Trade for Brady. I swear when he stinks it up because of that system I won't blame Davis for one bit of it. I swear I'll only blame Brady.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

gotta give it up to shallow for speakin truth...and the truth_ _ _ _ _

So it must be someone that prefers a lie over the truth that keeps dissing. I was at 240. Now I'm at 234.

dont look at me man. I hardly ever use the karma buttons...and typically only for props. Even then....rarely. The shit is kinda stupid to me.

And still I disagree. Jamarcus didnt become lazy and out of shape because he became a Raider lol. Maybe hitting the pro's and getting that money just exaggerated an issue that was already there. But I dont see how going to the Raiders can make a motivated individual lazy lol What about all the other guys on the team? Havent heard a whole lot about other guys showing up completely overweight..skipping workouts...etc...etc. Just the "leader" lol.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

It is completely hatred to think that the Raiders are the reason to think JaMarcus is 300 pounds. Dude needed to sit out and demand a trade if he was that mad, but instead he caused the Raiders to make a trade for a QB. Here is the point of how stupid Russell is, dude could have got in shape, demanded a trade and that his not playing for the Raiders, people will say, hey look his trying but who can do it with the Raiders, he'd get traded for dirt cheap and have a new team and keep his 9 million salary. Instead he got fat, said fuck it, and then the Raiders got Campbell and now no one will trade for him, and if the Raiders end up cutting him, his 9 million dollars short, and you know Al will sue him for his bonus back. Russell had it made and he fucked it up, and I am telling you right now, he cost himself 9 million dollars. It's all about dollars and sense, and dude's lack of sense cost him major dollars.

No. Russel is the reason he's 300 lbs. The Raiders just had an environment that let him do whatever he wanted. Just like Big Ben is the reason he likes to go around with an entourage get drunk and have sex with even drunker girls. The Raiders would have let him go further and he would have done worse things. That is my theory.

It's like how if a wild party althlete was signed to NY or Miami and got in trouble partying. But if he was signed by Green Bay there would be no wild parties to get him in trouble.

Jesus. Look at Randy Moss for Christ sakes. A fucking star in Minnesota goes to Oakland and stinks it up. Then goes back to a real organization and gets the TD record, and remains a star when a QB who hadn't started since high school came in.

Case closed boys. Oakland can make the best WR in the era look like junk, so I think they can make Russel worse too.

Not quite. Put it like this...the league is full of educated coaches, scouts, etc. They would have a good feel for whether this guy was just some talented kid who got demotivated by the Raider organization. Im sure thats pretty easy to agree upon. As of now, its reported that there completely no trade market for Jamarcus. Nobody wants him if they have to pay him. A team would not take the kind of loss they will take by cutting him...without him being a complete failure. Al Davis doesnt like to admit mistakes...and definetely doesnt like to give away money for nothing. When he cuts Jamarcus, he will be doing both. Why would he do that...unless the kid is a complete flop? The Raiders gave him TOO much time IMO...and Im sure in Cables opinion. Al is the only reason this bum stayed on the field as long as he did. On ANY other team he woulda been on the bench in a heartbeat. But we had too much money wrapped up in him. Some poor team will sign this loser for the league minimum. Luckily for them, they will only be out the minimum and not millions. Like M-Dogg said, its complete hatred to blame this fat fucks laziness on anyone but himself. Very few QB's are basically run out of town in the NFL....its typically because THEY suck.

[Shallow]

gotta give it up to shallow for speakin truth...and the truth_ _ _ _ _

So it must be someone that prefers a lie over the truth that keeps dissing. I was at 240. Now I'm at 234.

dont look at me man. I hardly ever use the karma buttons...and typically only for props. Even then....rarely. The shit is kinda stupid to me.

And still I disagree. Jamarcus didnt become lazy and out of shape because he became a Raider lol. Maybe hitting the pro's and getting that money just exaggerated an issue that was already there. But I dont see how going to the Raiders can make a motivated individual lazy lol What about all the other guys on the team? Havent heard a whole lot about other guys showing up completely overweight..skipping workouts...etc...etc. Just the "leader" lol.

I wasn't calling you out for the disses. I just noticed that I dropped 6 points during the time I was defending Russel and thought it was funny. I didn't know who it was, or even cared. It was just a light hearted comment.

As for why the others work hard; I've already answered that when I said it depends on the player. If you're prima donna  lybe player a place like the Raiders will kill you like it did Moss. Do you want to see how far down the talent pool TO can fall then sign him and you'll see it in Oakland.

Generally the type of players that have excelled in Oakland the last few years nice guys that work hard and don't worry about being stars. I've seen Nnamdi Asomugha in interviews and right away I could tell he was a guy like Jerry Rice, Peyton Manning, or Barry Sanders. Guys that might have an attitude but they attitude is directly related to winning and being at their best. Not about past accomplishments but of accomplishments they've yet to achieve.

Russel, like Moss or TO is about I'm Jamarcus Russel, first round #1 pick and college star. It's the same attitude that Tom Brady had when Plax predicted 21-17. The way Brady laughed it off like "I scored 50 TDs. We had more TDs this year than any other team". Compare it to a guy like Larry Bird if a SF on another team said he'd hold Larry to 10 points. Larry would say something like "well, he's a great defender and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out", but in the locker room and during the game Larry would have something to say every time he scores a basket and dedicate that game to making the guy look foolish. Not just assume what he said was stupid and take it for granted that he can score 30. Because then he won't even come close to 15.

Anyway, so when a guy with an attitude like that enters a team with an owner like that, it's trouble. Rich Gannon worked so well in Oakland because he was playing with the certainty that every mistake is one step closer to the bench. On a Belicheck team, everyone plays that. Russel would to. But if someone like Brady went to Oakland he'd take for granted his starting spot and he'd end up losing it.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

Coming to Baltimore he'd never have been the star Oakland pushed him to be. He'd be the don't lose the game and let the defense win QB and that changes everything. Especially when Ray Lewis threatens you with violence in the locker room. Live in your dream world if you want, but Randy Moss is a better leader than anyone Oakland has seen since maybe Ken Stabler and he fell to shit.

Oakland should simply see this as a lesson when they go out and get a player they need to make sure he isn't a star before he gets their. Tom Brady would absolutely fall apart in Oakland if we showed up tomorrow. You know what. Trade for Brady. I swear when he stinks it up because of that system I won't blame Davis for one bit of it. I swear I'll only blame Brady.

lol You are going way overboard man and now getting to the point of sounding absolutely ridiculous. "Randy Moss is a better leader than anyone Oakland has seen since maybe Ken Stabler".  Step back from your hatred...and think about that statement. I wish I would hear a reputable NFL analyst make a statement like that lolol.

Here is the thing, did you even watch the Raiders play all year last year man? Jamarcus was NEVER expected to be a star in that offense. They had a very good running game and young receivers. Whether it was due to Jamarcus's lack of leadership skills...or the young receivers, the passing game wasnt the focus for us. The running game was. Jamarcus was only expected to complete passes and not turn the ball over. They had to simplify the offense for him like Ive never seen before...especially for a #1 overall pick. They had to cut his progressions in half lol. Instead of having him try to read the whole field and go through 1st...2nd...3rd....4th options, they had to cut the field in half and only give him 2 to 3 options on each passing play. He was that slow at picking up ANYthing. NFL Quarterback. Wow.