Why LeBron Will NEVER Be Kobe...Cleveland is FINISHED.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.

You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch.  And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.

[Chamillitary Click]

^but how much stock do you honestly put in his opinion?

let's say he said the opposite, you wouldn't say "well, MJ DID say LeBron is better, so he must be right".

Jordan's opinion is the same as anyone elses.

LeBron finished the year averaging 30, 7 & 7; shooting a little better than 50% from the field; just animalistic numbers.

people are so quick to jump to Kobe because of the rings when he needed so much help to get them.

but once you say, "who is the better player?" can you even talk about rings? right away, you're turning it into an individual conversation.

"which player is better?", it's not which team is better, because TEAMS win rings, not single players; so how do you even count rings like that?

i'll say that to say this, Karl Malone is one million times the player Robert Horry is; but you guys don't jump so quick to say, "but Robert's got more rings!"; it's just Karl is the better player.

LeBron is the better player, Kobe's just been more successful thanks to the most dominating big man in history & a cast of All-Stars in 2009 & 10.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.

You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch.  And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.

Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.

Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...

As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?

[Chamillitary Click]

^that was a sick post lol.

[Sccit]

^but how much stock do you honestly put in his opinion?

let's say he said the opposite, you wouldn't say "well, MJ DID say LeBron is better, so he must be right".

Jordan's opinion is the same as anyone elses.

LeBron finished the year averaging 30, 7 & 7; shooting a little better than 50% from the field; just animalistic numbers.

people are so quick to jump to Kobe because of the rings when he needed so much help to get them.

but once you say, "who is the better player?" can you even talk about rings? right away, you're turning it into an individual conversation.

"which player is better?", it's not which team is better, because TEAMS win rings, not single players; so how do you even count rings like that?

i'll say that to say this, Karl Malone is one million times the player Robert Horry is; but you guys don't jump so quick to say, "but Robert's got more rings!"; it's just Karl is the better player.

LeBron is the better player, Kobe's just been more successful thanks to the most dominating big man in history & a cast of All-Stars in 2009 & 10.

First of all, a teams personality takes on the team leaders personality, so if your team leader is a winner and has killer instinct, so should the team. The reason you seem to think the Laker supporting cast is so amazing, when in reality the Laker supporting cast is actually nothing special compared to most supporting casts in the history of nba championship teams, is because Kobe makes them look better. He helped make an aging Fisher look like a legit starting point guard, he helped make a shallow bench look deep, he helped take Gasol's status from star big to one of the best bigs in the world, his presence on the court draws so much attention that players like Bynum and Odom consistently put up all-star worthy numbers without making any all-star teams...Kobe is the only star back-court player on his team, while LeBron is playing alongside a star guard, a star power forward, a future hall-of-fame center, and a bench so deep that it could beat out some starting fives in this league...So don't say "Kobe did it with so much help", when in reality, LeBron has just as much help, if not more and can't get it done (in a weaker conference, nonetheless).


Second of all, comparing Karl Malone to Robert Horry is stupid, because Horry won rings as a role player, not a star player. For example, a lot of people say Duncan is better than Malone and use the fact that Duncan was a winner and Malone wasn't as a main argument. ...That's would be a good argument, because they're both star players who led their team. but comparing role players to premier players is just really not going to win you any arguments.

[Chamillitary Click]

^LeBron touches the ball on 99% of the Cavs possesions, sets up every play, good enough for 62 wins & does it with half the cast the Lakers have.

he takes a shot or drives on 70% of the possesions & teams still can't stop him; just an unstoppable force.

& fine, you can say my Malone/Horry argument is invald; but that doesn't change that when you compare individual players you can't count something that's a team effort.

Kobe doesn't win rings, the Lakers win rings; Kobe is just a part of that.

Passing? LeBron.
Scoring at will? LeBron.
Defense? i'm going to say tie.
Clutch? Kobe; but with LeBron scoring at will all game long, you'll only need half the clutch moments as you would with Kobe.

[Sccit]

Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.

You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch.  And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.

Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.

Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...

As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?

Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.

[Jaydc]

But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.

[.:DaYg0sTyLz:.]

Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.

You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch.  And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.

Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.

Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...

As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?

Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.

The problem is youre leaving out certain aspects to this argument man. Yes, Duncan winning championships is huge. Would he be one of the best all time PFs without them? Of course. The fact that he won 4 and the Spurs have been so good during his era has helped make him the best PF all time. But what youre failing to bring up is the fact that Duncan was the MAIN focal point in those championships. He was the guy. He was THE superstar. There are no other surefire HOF's on those teams, OTHER then Robinson....and Duncan was the MVP of THOSE series as well. So yeah, when someone uses Horry as an argument...its a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains, that I dont put a TON of weight on championships won...unless you are THE man on the team. THE leader. Like it or not, Kobe has only been THE man during a Laker championship for one of those runs. We can argue whether him or Shaq was the focal point of the three-peat Lakers all day. But at the very least you have to agree he was sharing the spotlight on those teams. Jordan was never sharing the spotlight....Duncan wasnt...shit, Hakeem wasnt....and LeBron for damn sure isnt. Ive said it a million times man. For a career....whos better? Kobe or LeBron? The answer is Kobe. Today...right now, who is the better player? IMO...LeBron. I dont think youre insane for thinking Kobe tho man. Thats your opinion. I only think your insane when you think its ridiculous for anyone to say LeBron. I think its as close as it could be. So I respect the opinion that Kobe is better. I respect the opinion that LeBron is better. Both are valid. I just think its LeBron right now.

[OG Hack Wilson]

Your man crush on kobe disgusts us.

true that

[Sccit]

^LeBron touches the ball on 99% of the Cavs possesions, sets up every play, good enough for 62 wins & does it with half the cast the Lakers have.

he takes a shot or drives on 70% of the possesions & teams still can't stop him; just an unstoppable force.

& fine, you can say my Malone/Horry argument is invald; but that doesn't change that when you compare individual players you can't count something that's a team effort.

Kobe doesn't win rings, the Lakers win rings; Kobe is just a part of that.

Passing? LeBron.
Scoring at will? LeBron.
Defense? i'm going to say tie.
Clutch? Kobe; but with LeBron scoring at will all game long, you'll only need half the clutch moments as you would with Kobe.

Kobe is not "just" part of a team that won a ring, what don't you get? Kobe LED his team to a championship ring, which is the ultimate feature on a great players resume. Being able to lead your team to a title is the goal and what separates the great players from the greatEST players. Yes, LeBron touches the ball on 99% of Cavs possessions, which is also a big reason why he has an untouchable stat-line and a big reason for why the media drools over him more than anyone in the history of the NBA (including Jordan). But if that system only produces incredible stats, yet can't lead to him winning a title, then it's accomplished nothing...

your breakdown on both players is horrible:
SCORING- Kobe is a WAY better scorer (has a much better shot, better handles, can penetrate OR stop on a dime for a jumpshot)
DEFENDING- LeBron is not even in the same discussion with Kobe when it comes to D (Kobe=all-nba 1st team pretty much every year, LeBron still has a long way to go on D, especially when it comes to staying in front of his man)  
PASSING- Kobe is an underrated passer and has an unparalleled knack for spoon-feeding players out of double teams (also averages a good amount of assists in a system that doesn't produce high assist number).
CLUTCH- being clutch is always a huge factor, because you want your star player to be able to perform at his best when the game matters most, like in the Finals for instance...

If LeBron wins this year, he will reach that status and shut me up for good. As of now, you fickle NBA fans need to wait before you let the media hype you up this much...PeACe

[OG Hack Wilson]

But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.

another solid point


Lebron is already on most people's top 20 ever list just based on age 18-25



i'd say here is my top 20 of all time at the moment


Michael jordan
larry bird
oscar robertson
magic johnson
bill russell
hakeem
shaq
wilt the stilt
kareem
tim duncan
kobe
kevin garnett
charles barkley
john stockton
karl malone
jerry west
Dr. j
isiah thomas
lebron james
kevin mchale

[Sccit]

Lebron is known as a guy who makes those around him better...more so then Kobe. Again, other then by Kobe fans. Kobe fans tend to think that everyone who recognizes LeBron being better then Kobe....are LeBron fans. When in reality...you have Kobe fans who typically are Laker fans as well, who think Kobe is better. Then you have a majority of any other fans....regardless of their favorite team, who think LeBron is better. Which opinion is more biased...u tell me. Is Kobe a great player. Of course. Will he be a HOF'er? Of course. But there is a reason the expectations for LeBron are so much higher then what the expectations were for Kobe, at this stage of his career. Kobe is at the point of trying to break into that top 10 players all time. LeBron is expected to be competing for greatest player of all time. Who knows if he will ever reach that level. Thats a bit far off still. But Kobe was never expected to rank that high up on the all time list.

You say only Kobe fans think Kobe is the best. So forget about my opinion, what about the opinion of Michael Jordan? Jordan was the last great player in the game before Kobe, so he should be the one to pass the torch.  And he clearly said this year, that Kobe is better than Lebron, and that because of his style of play he will continue to have more durability than Lebron.

Jordan was the last great player?? Are u kidding me? Jordan was great, the greatest. Once Jordan retired, you have a big group of great players who will all be HOF'ers. Kobe is simply one in that group. You have Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, etc.

Let me ask you this, take your own personal bias out of it. Shaq and Duncan right now are typically ranked in the top 10 on most experts "10 best all time players lists". Kobe is not, or right on the edge. Jordan is one opinion. Kobe patterned his game after...who? Do you think Jordan is gonna say a big man is the best player in the league? Hell no. Have you noticed the way the media always manages to exclude bigmen from the "Best Player in the League" talks? Its solely reserved for perimeter players. It has been that way since Jordan. Basically, its reserved for players who create a lot of highlights...and bigmen dont. Good marketing huh? Even when Shaq was in his prime, they didnt like to call him the best player in the league...so they called him the "Most Dominant". Duncan has 3 finals MVPs, and 2 league MVPs, theyve never liked to call him the best PLAYER. Only the "best bigman". So its all bullshit...

As for Jordan again. Take this into account as well. People like NIK have argued for years that MJ has this overwhelming ego (worse then Kobe's they say LOL). Well, do u think the man with the giant ego is gonna say Lebron is the best right now, when a lot of experts think Lebron could eventually surpass Jordan? Or do u think he (and his so called giant ego) will say Kobe is the greatest, knowing that most experts think he wont surpass Jordan?

Forget about what Jordan said or what Magic said, Kobe is simply greater because he has what it takes to perform at the highest level on the biggest stage. Why do you think Shaq and Duncan were considered the greatest bigs during that era? BECAUSE THEY WON. THEY DELIVERED RINGS TO THEIR FRANCHISES. If it were Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber winning rings during that era, they would be in that discussion... they're not, and even though Garnett's status sky-rocketed after winning a ring with Boston, he will never be debated with Duncan, because it was Duncan who consistently won on the big stage and not Garnett. you realize that Duncan wouldn't be considered as great as he is currently considered if he had never won on the biggest stage, right? The same applies to LeBron, and you being a Spurs fan, should be the first to acknowledge that.

The problem is youre leaving out certain aspects to this argument man. Yes, Duncan winning championships is huge. Would he be one of the best all time PFs without them? Of course. The fact that he won 4 and the Spurs have been so good during his era has helped make him the best PF all time. But what youre failing to bring up is the fact that Duncan was the MAIN focal point in those championships. He was the guy. He was THE superstar. There are no other surefire HOF's on those teams, OTHER then Robinson....and Duncan was the MVP of THOSE series as well. So yeah, when someone uses Horry as an argument...its a bit of a stretch. But the fact remains, that I dont put a TON of weight on championships won...unless you are THE man on the team. THE leader. Like it or not, Kobe has only been THE man during a Laker championship for one of those runs. We can argue whether him or Shaq was the focal point of the three-peat Lakers all day. But at the very least you have to agree he was sharing the spotlight on those teams. Jordan was never sharing the spotlight....Duncan wasnt...shit, Hakeem wasnt....and LeBron for damn sure isnt. Ive said it a million times man. For a career....whos better? Kobe or LeBron? The answer is Kobe. Today...right now, who is the better player? IMO...LeBron. I dont think youre insane for thinking Kobe tho man. Thats your opinion. I only think your insane when you think its ridiculous for anyone to say LeBron. I think its as close as it could be. So I respect the opinion that Kobe is better. I respect the opinion that LeBron is better. Both are valid. I just think its LeBron right now.

What are you talkin about? Tony Parker was a Finals MVP on one of those Spurs championship teams. Manu Ginobli is one of the greatest Euros to ever play this game...Duncan didn't only win with 1 other star player on his team, but 2. Some can argue that having the combination of Parker and Ginobli on your team is more of an asset than having just Shaq. The point is, Kobe was a focal point on the Laker teams of the threepeat era just as much as Shaq was, just like Magic was a focal point on the Laker teams of the showtime era just as much as Kareem was. Every star on a championship team has had to share the spotlight, some more, some less. Doesn't take away from the fact that they were great players who were a focal point on great championship teams.

Also, I don't think it's ABSURD to say Lebron played better basketball this season than Kobe. But is he actually the better overall player? The answer is no. Yes, Kobe has had to tone his game down and play through numerous injuries this year, but his status amongst the greatests was earned through winning.. and with experience, he learned that there are sacrifices to be made if you wanna win it all. LeBron is not going to reach that status until he wins and elevates his game when something is actually at stake.

[Sccit]

But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.

another solid point


Lebron is already on most people's top 20 ever list just based on age 18-25



i'd say here is my top 20 of all time at the moment


Michael jordan
larry bird
oscar robertson
magic johnson
bill russell
hakeem
shaq
wilt the stilt
kareem
tim duncan
kevin garnett
charles barkley
john stockton
karl malone
jerry west
Dr. j
isiah thomas
lebron james
kevin mchale

LOL@putting some of those names above Kobe Horrible, Hack.

[OG Hack Wilson]

But the fact remains lebron is already in those talks without a ring.

another solid point


Lebron is already on most people's top 20 ever list just based on age 18-25



i'd say here is my top 20 of all time at the moment


Michael jordan
larry bird
oscar robertson
magic johnson
bill russell
hakeem
shaq
wilt the stilt
kareem
tim duncan
kevin garnett
charles barkley
john stockton
karl malone
jerry west
Dr. j
isiah thomas
lebron james
kevin mchale

LOL@putting some of those names above Kobe Horrible, Hack.

oh shit man...i meant to have Kobe at #10