Watched Beef 3, reminded me how much Royce fucked up his career

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

I couldn't help but laugh when Royce's manager was talking about "We don't eat off Eminem's plate, we don't eat off Dr. Dre's plate".   Royce and his manager made some of the most historically arrogant and idiotic business moves hip-hop has ever seen!

I already knew about the whole Vibe issue, and how big of a mistake that was for Royce and his manager, fucking up their connection with Dre...

...But in the documentary I also found out that Eminem was steadily trying to convince Royce just to be patient, and finish the Slim Shady tour with Eminem as Em's hype man, and that afterwards Royce was going to be the first artist that Em was going to mentor and bring out to the whole world.  Em and Proof were at odds at the time, and D-12 wasn't even in the picture.

At the beginning of the Slim Shady tour, Royce and his manager basically used Eminem, they used their relationship with Dre and Em as bargaining chips and signed a mega-deal with Tommy Boy.  Then, to make matters even worse, Royce asked off the tour so that he could go record the album.  Eminem tried to give Royce good council and save his career, by telling him to just wait till after the tour and then it was going to be his time but Royce rushed off the tour and the rest is history.


So how did this move work out for Royce?  Well he was in such a big hurry to get off Em's tour and do his album that the album NEVER FUCKING CAME OUT!   Then, after using Eminem and Dre as bargaining chips to get a major deal with Tommy Boy, Tommy Boy realized they'd been duped, and that Royce and his manager had actually fucked up their relationship with Dre and Em, and in reality, there weren't gonna be any Dre tracks on the album, and very little Em, if any!  So Tommy Boy drops him from the label.

...and then as icing on the cake Em mentors D-12 instead and they blow up with a critically acclaimed, classic posse album Devils Night and their careers take off to the moon!



WOW, you just can't make this shit up.  

[Leggy Hendrix]

yeah that really is some of the dumbest shit ive ever read...he's gotta look back at that whole period with a lot of regret, i mean he's built up a good underground fanbase but has never been able to build on that and gain any kind of real crossover success ala D12, Obie Trice etc shouldve just bided his time instead of being so fucking stubborn and things couldve been very different!

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

yeah that really is some of the dumbest shit ive ever read...he's gotta look back at that whole period with a lot of regret, i mean he's built up a good underground fanbase but has never been able to build on that and gain any kind of real crossover success ala D12, Obie Trice etc shouldve just bided his time instead of being so fucking stubborn and things couldve been very different!

Word.. and Eminem was still trying to be cool with Royce even after he did all that.  Eminem produced Royce's "Rock City" single and even appeared in the video.  Yet Royce came out and included Eminem in a D-12 diss record later.  

And I look at it not just as a money thing, because I know Royce has a lot of underground fans on here who think he was better off not going with a major label.  Yet I would argue that his music also suffered BIG TIME as a result of his stubbornness.  He blew his chance to collaborate on a major level with two of the greatest talents ever in hip-hop, and although Royce has still made some decent records since, he has never again reached the level he was at during that era when he had songs like "Soldier", "Money", "The Throne Is Mine", "Bad Meetz Evil", "I'm the King", "Renegades" (origional) etc.    

[Leggy Hendrix]

yeah that really is some of the dumbest shit ive ever read...he's gotta look back at that whole period with a lot of regret, i mean he's built up a good underground fanbase but has never been able to build on that and gain any kind of real crossover success ala D12, Obie Trice etc shouldve just bided his time instead of being so fucking stubborn and things couldve been very different!

Word.. and Eminem was still trying to be cool with Royce even after he did all that.  Eminem produced Royce's "Rock City" single and even appeared in the video.  Yet Royce came out and included Eminem in a D-12 diss record later.  

And I look at it not just as a money thing, because I know Royce has a lot of underground fans on here who think he was better off not going with a major label.  Yet I would argue that his music also suffered BIG TIME as a result of his stubbornness.  He blew his chance to collaborate on a major level with two of the greatest talents ever in hip-hop, and although Royce has still made some decent records since, he has never again reached the level he was at during that era when he had songs like "Money", "The Throne Is Mine", "Bad Meetz Evil", "I'm the King", etc.    

yeah i agree, and as well as those 2 obviously if he was gonna be the first artist Em was gonna push through Shady Records, then there wouldve been a good recording budget for producers, guests etc which could potentially have led to the creation of a better standard of music around that time...up until very recently, royce has had lackluster production imo and that had a major impact on the quality of the music he released

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

Royce still put out some decent music, fuck it.  lol.

Royce is a man and he gotta feed himself.  His signing with Tommy Boy and him getting on his grind right away to record an album shows how much he wanted to make things happen.  He wasn't gonna sit around and wait for the perfect opportunity with Dre and Em.

Go ask Ortiz, Bishop, Stat Quo etc. how they fucked up their careers.  They will say it's worth it.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

yeah i agree, and as well as those 2 obviously if he was gonna be the first artist Em was gonna push through Shady Records, then there wouldve been a good recording budget for producers, guests etc which could potentially have led to the creation of a better standard of music around that time...up until very recently, royce has had lackluster production imo and that had a major impact on the quality of the music he released

Sure, most the stuff he puts out on these independent labels is quantity over quality.  You know if he would have had a little patience and common sense he would of waited on Dre or at the very least (if Dre takes forever) waited on Eminem, then he could of put out a classic.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Royce still put out some decent music, fuck it.  lol.

Royce is a man and he gotta feed himself.  His signing with Tommy Boy and him getting on his grind right away to record an album shows how much he wanted to make things happen.  He wasn't gonna sit around and wait for the perfect opportunity with Dre and Em.

Go ask Ortiz, Bishop, Stat Quo etc. how they fucked up their careers.  They will say it's worth it.

I might agree with you if we were just talking about Dr. Dre.  Like in the case of Stat Quo or Joel Ortiz I can kind of understand because Dre really has just been working at his own leisure with nothing to prove for many years now.

But when it comes to Eminem, Eminem still had a lot to prove back in the days of the Slim Shady tour.  He was hungry to collaborate with other Detroit artists and to put Detroit on the map.  He even tried to convince Royce to just wait till the end of the tour.  Imagine how much Royce would of learned and how they could of benefited each other by just being together every day for the length of that tour.  Then after the tour Em would have focused on Royce's project entirely.

You said he had to "get on his grind"?? Why couldn't he "get on his grind" by helping Eminem with the Slim Shady tour and learning as much as he could from Eminem?  He could of written songs during the tour as well, and had a wealth of material ready whenever it was time to hit the studio.   Hip-hop has always used the protege' system.  It has proven to be the best system.  Someone who's already in the game and established mentors you and pushes you to greater success.  Going at it alone, unless your a great businessman like Master P, is not good way to go.

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

Royce still put out some decent music, fuck it.  lol.

Royce is a man and he gotta feed himself.  His signing with Tommy Boy and him getting on his grind right away to record an album shows how much he wanted to make things happen.  He wasn't gonna sit around and wait for the perfect opportunity with Dre and Em.

Go ask Ortiz, Bishop, Stat Quo etc. how they fucked up their careers.  They will say it's worth it.

I might agree with you if we were just talking about Dr. Dre.  Like in the case of Stat Quo or Joel Ortiz I can kind of understand because Dre really has just been working at his own leisure with nothing to prove for many years now.

But when it comes to Eminem, Eminem still had a lot to prove back in the days of the Slim Shady tour.  He was hungry to collaborate with other Detroit artists and to put Detroit on the map.  He even tried to convince Royce to just wait till the end of the tour.  Imagine how much Royce would of learned and how they could of benefited each other by just being together every day for the length of that tour.  Then after the tour Em would have focused on Royce's project entirely.

You said he had to "get on his grind"?? Why couldn't he "get on his grind" by helping Eminem with the Slim Shady tour and learning as much as he could from Eminem?  He could of written songs during the tour as well, and had a wealth of material ready whenever it was time to hit the studio.   Hip-hop has always used the protege' system.  It has proven to be the best system.  Someone who's already in the game and established mentors you and pushes you to greater success.  Going at it alone, unless your a great businessman like Master P, is not good way to go.

How about he drops a dope album on Tommy Boy and becomes just as big as Eminem?

It could have happened.

Why does Royce have to learn from Em?  They were both already dope rappers, if you put Royce in Em's shoes, you would be saying Em could learn from Royce.

You work all your life to get a record deal, and you finally get one, and they want you to work on the album right away.. Are you gonna work on that album or stay on tour (which I know gives more money to the artist in the end).

Just saying, if you and your friend trying to come up.  Your friend has one, you still waiting tho.  Then you finally get one and you just gonna stay on tour with your boy?  Nah, get in the studio and get your hustle on.  Then you can make a name for yourself like your man did.

[Mike Harris]

Who the fuck is Royce? Is it the nigga in Slaughterhouse? Did he leave the group and go solo?
What, he think he can pull more bitches without the crew. Makes sense, he looks like a fucking turtle

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Who the fuck is Royce? Is it the nigga in Slaughterhouse? Did he leave the group and go solo?
What, he think he can pull more bitches without the crew. Makes sense, he looks like a fucking turtle

You sure you weren't lookin for the Cash Money Records forum?  I think your in the wrong place

[Blasphemy]

Royce still put out some decent music, fuck it.  lol.

Royce is a man and he gotta feed himself.  His signing with Tommy Boy and him getting on his grind right away to record an album shows how much he wanted to make things happen.  He wasn't gonna sit around and wait for the perfect opportunity with Dre and Em.

Go ask Ortiz, Bishop, Stat Quo etc. how they fucked up their careers.  They will say it's worth it.

I might agree with you if we were just talking about Dr. Dre.  Like in the case of Stat Quo or Joel Ortiz I can kind of understand because Dre really has just been working at his own leisure with nothing to prove for many years now.

But when it comes to Eminem, Eminem still had a lot to prove back in the days of the Slim Shady tour.  He was hungry to collaborate with other Detroit artists and to put Detroit on the map.  He even tried to convince Royce to just wait till the end of the tour.  Imagine how much Royce would of learned and how they could of benefited each other by just being together every day for the length of that tour.  Then after the tour Em would have focused on Royce's project entirely.

You said he had to "get on his grind"?? Why couldn't he "get on his grind" by helping Eminem with the Slim Shady tour and learning as much as he could from Eminem?  He could of written songs during the tour as well, and had a wealth of material ready whenever it was time to hit the studio.   Hip-hop has always used the protege' system.  It has proven to be the best system.  Someone who's already in the game and established mentors you and pushes you to greater success.  Going at it alone, unless your a great businessman like Master P, is not good way to go.

How about he drops a dope album on Tommy Boy and becomes just as big as Eminem?

It could have happened.

Why does Royce have to learn from Em?  They were both already dope rappers, if you put Royce in Em's shoes, you would be saying Em could learn from Royce.

You work all your life to get a record deal, and you finally get one, and they want you to work on the album right away.. Are you gonna work on that album or stay on tour (which I know gives more money to the artist in the end).

Just saying, if you and your friend trying to come up.  Your friend has one, you still waiting tho.  Then you finally get one and you just gonna stay on tour with your boy?  Nah, get in the studio and get your hustle on.  Then you can make a name for yourself like your man did.

Actually If I was in that situation I'd do things differently, The fact that some label who I have no connections other then some guy wants me cause of my connections to 2 people, I'd be better off working with the 2 people who actually give a shit about me and not who I know. If I was in his shoes, I'd stay on tour, keep writing down lyrics and ideas for tracks (Maybe even Develop a concept or a tracklist), Use the tour to hype up the album (Possibly did was Ice T did by dropping Lyrics for the Last Body COunt album earlier on Stage) and theN once it's over collaborate with the two hottest people in the game at the time.

Don't get me wrong, It's extremely understandable to go the route it took. A lot of Variables factor in a decision, and depending on how you look it, the possibility of either side looking more like a positive then a negative is possible. Hell we saw the Negative and you posted the positive outlook, and it's obvious people already know what the possible Negative outlook would be if he stayed.


I mean I'm wondering how some people would of done it if the were in that situation. I'd do it pretty specific, to really capitalize of the situation. I mean he wouldn't have sign to Aftermath he could just work with Slim closely, and it's obvious Slim was more inclined to releasing artist records, then Dr. Dre ever was or willing to.  but again the situation could of gone either way.

Who the fuck is Royce? Is it the nigga in Slaughterhouse? Did he leave the group and go solo?
What, he think he can pull more bitches without the crew. Makes sense, he looks like a fucking turtle

Wrong time period...

[The-Leak (aka) kingwell (bka) JULES]

Royce still put out some decent music, fuck it.  lol.

Royce is a man and he gotta feed himself.  His signing with Tommy Boy and him getting on his grind right away to record an album shows how much he wanted to make things happen.  He wasn't gonna sit around and wait for the perfect opportunity with Dre and Em.

Go ask Ortiz, Bishop, Stat Quo etc. how they fucked up their careers.  They will say it's worth it.

I might agree with you if we were just talking about Dr. Dre.  Like in the case of Stat Quo or Joel Ortiz I can kind of understand because Dre really has just been working at his own leisure with nothing to prove for many years now.

But when it comes to Eminem, Eminem still had a lot to prove back in the days of the Slim Shady tour.  He was hungry to collaborate with other Detroit artists and to put Detroit on the map.  He even tried to convince Royce to just wait till the end of the tour.  Imagine how much Royce would of learned and how they could of benefited each other by just being together every day for the length of that tour.  Then after the tour Em would have focused on Royce's project entirely.

You said he had to "get on his grind"?? Why couldn't he "get on his grind" by helping Eminem with the Slim Shady tour and learning as much as he could from Eminem?  He could of written songs during the tour as well, and had a wealth of material ready whenever it was time to hit the studio.   Hip-hop has always used the protege' system.  It has proven to be the best system.  Someone who's already in the game and established mentors you and pushes you to greater success.  Going at it alone, unless your a great businessman like Master P, is not good way to go.

How about he drops a dope album on Tommy Boy and becomes just as big as Eminem?

It could have happened.

Why does Royce have to learn from Em?  They were both already dope rappers, if you put Royce in Em's shoes, you would be saying Em could learn from Royce.

You work all your life to get a record deal, and you finally get one, and they want you to work on the album right away.. Are you gonna work on that album or stay on tour (which I know gives more money to the artist in the end).

Just saying, if you and your friend trying to come up.  Your friend has one, you still waiting tho.  Then you finally get one and you just gonna stay on tour with your boy?  Nah, get in the studio and get your hustle on.  Then you can make a name for yourself like your man did.

Actually If I was in that situation I'd do things differently, The fact that some label who I have no connections other then some guy wants me cause of my connections to 2 people, I'd be better off working with the 2 people who actually give a shit about me and not who I know. If I was in his shoes, I'd stay on tour, keep writing down lyrics and ideas for tracks (Maybe even Develop a concept or a tracklist), Use the tour to hype up the album (Possibly did was Ice T did by dropping Lyrics for the Last Body COunt album earlier on Stage) and theN once it's over collaborate with the two hottest people in the game at the time.

Don't get me wrong, It's extremely understandable to go the route it took. A lot of Variables factor in a decision, and depending on how you look it, the possibility of either side looking more like a positive then a negative is possible. Hell we saw the Negative and you posted the positive outlook, and it's obvious people already know what the possible Negative outlook would be if he stayed.


I mean I'm wondering how some people would of done it if the were in that situation. I'd do it pretty specific, to really capitalize of the situation. I mean he wouldn't have sign to Aftermath he could just work with Slim closely, and it's obvious Slim was more inclined to releasing artist records, then Dr. Dre ever was or willing to.  but again the situation could of gone either way.

Who the fuck is Royce? Is it the nigga in Slaughterhouse? Did he leave the group and go solo?
What, he think he can pull more bitches without the crew. Makes sense, he looks like a fucking turtle

Wrong time period...

Yeah I mean look @ the producers he did work with on Rock City: Red Spyda, Premo, Ty Fyffe, Neptunes, Trackmasters, etc.   His label definitely hooked him up with the budget to get good beats, and the production fit him well, we might not have heard an as diverse sounding album if it was all Em production with 1 or 2 Dre tracks.  

You're right tho we'll never know.  And just judging off his catalogue, I'd say he still put out decent albums without Shady/Aftermath.  And he is one of the most respected in the present day game, so his skills obviously helped him overcome any bad career decisions he made.

[blazeindave213]

Who the fuck is Royce? Is it the nigga in Slaughterhouse? Did he leave the group and go solo?
What, he think he can pull more bitches without the crew. Makes sense, he looks like a fucking turtle

You sure you weren't lookin for the Cash Money Records forum?  I think your in the wrong place

i was just thinking the same what's this lip gloss wearing faggot doing in here

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

Who the fuck is Royce? Is it the nigga in Slaughterhouse? Did he leave the group and go solo?
What, he think he can pull more bitches without the crew. Makes sense, he looks like a fucking turtle

You sure you weren't lookin for the Cash Money Records forum?  I think your in the wrong place

i was just thinking the same what's this lip gloss wearing faggot doing in here

trying his best to fuck up the forum is what he's doing, one of the administrators needs to clear his spam

[yeapp]

The first d-12 diss that came out was recorded before hand. Any a who Dre was still going to work with Royce even after those comments leaked. It was not that he was on Tommy Boy that ended that relationship. Royce chose his manager over Dre. Bad move in hindsight. The thing was you guys see when Alchemist brought up when he met Eminem? It was before he was famous or dyed his hair,and Alchemist said Em went around telling everybody how dope Royce was. Royce has a song talking about what he learned from Em. At the time it may have seemed as a better move.