so far, top 10 albums of 2010

[SCREWFACE]

why it gotta be one way or the other, i like african music, i bang with some Babatunde Olatunji but i also like the v.w. indie sound. white people in the 60s stole off black blues, does that discredit all the music.. fuck, i still can't decide whether i like the rolling stones or the original jimmy reed version of honest i do... and fuck, some of the shit zeppelin did with blues classics, i like em more,

fuck all that culture vulture bullshit, i doubt many people listen to v.w. and go, wow i feel so african right now, i mean, do you really think that?

feeling cultured doesnt meen "i feel african", cmon you know that lets not play  . its almost like a badge. "hey have u heard this band, theyre really cool, yeah theyre 'african' influenced" which then leaves the typical indie fan feeling as if they have experienced 'culture' yet all they are doing is listening to indie rock. they have no desire to actually experience another culture unless it is neatly packaged and fits with what they already enjoy. im not saying this is you or anyone else here, but lets not pretend it doesnt happen like..... all the fucking time. people do this.

a random example but its definitely something happening currently, cee-lo is pandering to the indie crowd and now a lot of whitebread indie kids are like "wow cool im listening to a black dude" yet again they dont have to step outside their comfort zone because most of his new shit has boring indie backing. im not an indie hater, its just white 20-somethings are the most guilty of this shit and indie is the music/brand that represents them most closely

I think most 20 something white males listen to rap more than "indie" rock. 

that is completely untrue, but since we are on a rap forum and i knew people might say that, i said indie is the music that represents them most closely (its made and consumed by white 20-somethings)

thanks for the great discussion guys! lists are boring anyway

[Javier]

I hate the term "indie" rock.  And I honestly don't know who you're thinking about beside Vampire Weekend but beside concerts, I don't meet anybody on my day to day encounters that is into these genres of rock.  Maybe the majority of fans from the genre itself are white, but I feel that they probably listen to something else. 

[SCREWFACE]

I hate the term "indie" rock.  And I honestly don't know who you're thinking about beside Vampire Weekend but beside concerts, I don't meet anybody on my day to day encounters that is into these genres of rock.  Maybe the majority of fans from the genre itself are white, but I feel that they probably listen to something else. 

you might not like it but its a legit term and its not derogatory in any way, i dont see your problem with it. most popular rock music of today is a form of indie, its not like its obscure anymore. indie is now the face of mainstream rock. unless you are using a different definition of indie than me, in which case take a look at what bands are popular right now (pitchfork.com lol)

i 100% believe what you are saying, but its very very strange that you dont meet anyone that is into indie , although im willing to guess its because of where you live or you only attend very scene-specific bars and clubs. although even in times were i was part of very insular scenes (for example, techno) i would still meet people who were into all kinds of shit.

edit: wow i just noticed you have the national in your sig? are you trolling me? the national... an indie rock band..... what am i missing here?

[Javier]

It's vague.

If I tell somebody, "I listen to indie rock" I'm not really saying anything...therefore that term sucks and should be banned already.  Then, you got actual mainstream movies using that term, "oh he's so indie".  

The two bands mentioned in this thread alone, Vampire Weekend and The National, are part of the same genre?  I don't see it. 

[SCREWFACE]

yeah you could argue its vague, but all genre names are in that case (apart from metal, no the nerds got every little sub genre worked out there). hip-hop is the genre for alllllll these different types of rap music we discuss here, but we can use other descriptors to tell different sounds apart, it doesnt make them a different genre.

both bands are indie, just because you dont like it doesnt make it untrue. look at the roots of indie and how it has progressed (it has a long history going back to the 80s). this isnt some buzzword made up by a magazine, its indie rock, its a real genre, its a big genre, and its wide-reaching in its definition. to be honest i find your problem with the name a little silly. yes  they sound different and approach music differently, but they are the same genre. its no different than two rappers from two different regions with two different production sounds. i dont care for nationals music enough to describe how they are different from vampy, but im sure you can, and theres no reason to get all indignant about a well established genre name because you dont care for it.

i mean goddamn just look at this line from the wikipedia article on 'indie rock' "Other indie-oriented artists including LCD Soundsystem, Vampire Weekend, Interpol, Spoon, MGMT, and The National have also cracked the United States top 10 and enjoyed mainstream popularity"

i know you "hate the term indie rock" but that has no bearing on this argument. the whole calling something other than music indie is a whooooole different argument and one i dont want to get into, but dude, lets not try dispute it any further.

[Javier]

The difference in hip hop is minimal compared to the differences in "indie rock".  In that same "Wiki" article you mention, it talks about how "indie rock" is kind of an attitude basically.  Saying that they make the music the want to make...that literally sounds exactly like the "punk" rock attitude, especially for bands that have started playing fast paced rock and turned into popular rock bands, which goes back to my point on why a label like "indie rock" is pointless because you can't pigeonhole a group of people into being "indie" the way mainstream movies do.  I know what type of crowd the National gets and I know the type of crowd MGMT gets....you're in two completely different styles/vibe/whatever you want to call it.  But I guess an outside will just say, "oh look at those indie kids". 

[SCREWFACE]

The difference in hip hop is minimal compared to the differences in "indie rock".  In that same "Wiki" article you mention, it talks about how "indie rock" is kind of an attitude basically.  Saying that they make the music the want to make...that literally sounds exactly like the "punk" rock attitude, especially for bands that have started playing fast paced rock and turned into popular rock bands, which goes back to my point on why a label like "indie rock" is pointless because you can't pigeonhole a group of people into being "indie" the way mainstream movies do.  I know what type of crowd the National gets and I know the type of crowd MGMT gets....you're in two completely different styles/vibe/whatever you want to call it.  But I guess an outside will just say, "oh look at those indie kids". 

again you are talking about the word indie used in a different context, applied to groups of people rather than music. carry on thinking what you want but i wont be discussing this any further, its just dumb. go back and listen to the smiths and other classic 80s indie bands, follow the progression and see how indie has come to be in its many different shapes and forms while still remaining indie.

[white Boy]

i agree with screwface, i figure, any rock that's not top 40, is indie. i dont care that arcade fire are the first band to be on top of the charts and shit, they are still indie and wont be getting played beside maroon 5, or good charleotte, or whoever is on the pop/rock charts, i dont listen to the radio..... (maybe the term is flawed),  but all terms are flawed, listening to shallow make a good case that hip hop is a genre of rock n roll, really makes me hate genres in general.

[rayallen0]

The National - High Violet
Janelle Monáe - The ArchAndroid
Joanna Newsom - Have One on Me
Big Boi - Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty
Beach House - Teen Dream
Arcade Fire - The Suburbs
The Tallest Man on Earth - The Wild Hunt
The Black Keys - Brothers
Flying Lotus - Cosmogramma
Blind Guardian - At the Edge of Time

[Javier]

I completely understand, in its origins, indie rock is an actual genre, but out there with actual people that you talk to indie rock isn't just a genre anymore...it's a commercialized style.  It's equivelnt to having spiky hair and black clothes and somebody saying, "oh this guy's a rocker".  Nah, fuck that. 

[SCREWFACE]

are you unable to seperate culture from art? is this completely pointless? this has nothing do to with what you are talking about, we are discussing music as an art form and sound, not the fashion scene and people that surround it.

[SCREWFACE]

did someone call you an indie kid and now you get all resentfull of the term indie? well tough luck mate cause indie rock is what its called and you cant fight it, no matter how much you hate PEOPLE being labelled as indie, it doesnt make the music NOT indie. music does not equal people. please stop discussing the people.

[Javier]

Here are basically my points

- You can't describe music by a simple term.  It's either lazy or ignorant
- if term grows and it becomes more of a scene, then something is wrong with the term itself. 

[Javier]

, listening to shallow make a good case that hip hop is a genre of rock n roll, really makes me hate genres in general.

Yeah, exactly.

[SCREWFACE]

Here are basically my points

- You can't describe music by a simple term.  It's either lazy or ignorant
- if term grows and it becomes more of a scene, then something is wrong with the term itself. 

on your first point, go-on then! since the rest of the world is clearly lazy and ignorant can you please explain to me how you would describe a)the national b)vampy. what genre are they? and dont say genres are stupid that is the worst opinion ever, genres are a usefull way to classify music, they show both a link in sound, link in influences and MOST IMPORTANTLY a link in the artists approach to making music, that is what different artists in genres share above all.

 and there is NO good case for saying hip-hop is rock n roll LMAO are you people fucking serious. the very fundamentals of both genres are entirely different. in my opinion it shows ignorance of musical knowledge in both how music is created and the history of its creation, its very important to look at how the music is created to understand how it is related to other artists and what makes them part of the same genre.

as for your second point i have no idea what that means, it seems like you are just pissed that the term indie has also become a descriptor for things such as fashion and people. i hate that too! i think its dumb as hell! but thats just idiots. its a completely seperate argument and has nothing i mean 0% to do with indie as a musical term. trust me, i hate it when people say "thats so indie" when they see a dude wearin a waistcoat or trillby hat.