This Jay-Z Reasonable Doubt album is WEAK... and this is what built his career?

[J$crILLa]

im not a huge jay-z fan but i do like reasonable doubt for sure. anything he done after blueprint has been complte bullshit

[RedMagic213]

agreed...bullshit album

[Leggy Hendrix]

the OP has already been discredited on many occasions so im not even gonna bother trying to argue the point...but anyone who thinks No Way Out is a "5 mic" classic shouldnt be allowed to speak on anything

[teecee]

I just listened to it again for old times sake because I love 1996, and the only track that I think is dope is the opening track with Mary J. Blige, and that's probably only because it brings back memories of 96 since it was the radio single.

Seriously.. this shit is trash.. I mean, people shit on Puffy but if you listen to No Way Out or Life After Death or most of those Bad Boy Records of that era he had amazing attention to detail.  I mean, even his skits were fuckin dope, like the little prayers he did for before one of the last joints on BIG's album and all that shit was way CINEMATIC. 

But Jay-Z's idea of a skit is some radio personality telling guys to put out their refer... yet strangely she was serious and it was supposed to be some pro-black message or something when most the album is talking about selling drugs... lol, but the thing is it wasn't humor, it was just like a lack of focus and creativity that I think plagues the whole album and this is just one example.

Then he has a track where he is supposedly freestylin and doing the Tribe Called Quest "Can I Kick It" thing.. so your expecting that he's really gonna drop some mind blowing punchlines or something.. and then your still left waiting at the end of the track looking stupid waiting for him to finally bring it....

How did this album serve as the foundation for a billion dollar career... damn, this dude must owe his life to Dame Dash and his own marketing skills because if he had to rely on talent this dude would've been finished long ago.

If you were around at this time, and old enough to be in to hiphop, you'd know that NO ONE considered this a classic when it dropped.  His next album was not good, but then Hard Knock Life hit, and all of a sudden everyone was saying that Reasonal Doubt was a classic.


RD is NOT a classic at the time, but being it's Jay's first, I can see why people want it to be.  However, it is NOT a weak album either. 

D'Evils?   Insane song
Brooklyn's Finest with BIG?  DOPE
Dead Presidents???!!!!   Maybe Jay's nicest song ever


No Way Out a classic?   Well, it DID define an era.   It WAS BY NO MEANS a lyrical masterpiece, and had some filler, but then again CLASSICS do not have to be perfect like people seem to think nowadays

[Sir Petey]

alot of ppl here werent even listening to rap at the time, some of yall were still shitting in your pampers when these albums came out.

maybe it was a thing where you had to see the impact a record had on the culture. ppl didnt really check for reasonable doubt untill streets was watching dropped.

no way out carried the east coast for a minute...if u werent wutang affiliated back then east coast records werent popping as hard.



no way out lead to a tour that put brooklyn and harlem on its back, alot of cats ate on that tour...not that any of yall on a west coast forum give a shit but its true.

some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.

[Leggy Hendrix]

alot of ppl here werent even listening to rap at the time, some of yall were still shitting in your pampers when these albums came out.

maybe it was a thing where you had to see the impact a record had on the culture. ppl didnt really check for reasonable doubt untill streets was watching dropped.

no way out carried the east coast for a minute...if u werent wutang affiliated back then east coast records werent popping as hard.

no way out lead to a tour that put brooklyn and harlem on its back, alot of cats ate on that tour...not that any of yall on a west coast forum give a shit but its true.

some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

i agree with you to a degree, i mean you'd be stupid to argue that puff around that time was more influential but we're speaking on a purely musical quality level, and we all know the only reason No Way Out was as big as it was and everyone wanted to hear what puff had to say is because of everything that had just happened with Biggie, and the subsequent success that Ill Be Missing You had...

but i still think, on a musical level, track for track, Reasonable Doubt is a better album... regardless of whether people were checking for it or not at the time, thats irrelevant as thats been the case with many albums which are now considered classics

[Leggy Hendrix]

Infinite's opinion on hip hop isn't worth the time of day.  A few years ago we we discussing rap and how much he hates Mobb Deep yet at that time never heard the track Shook Ones pt 2.  Mobb Deep's most popular tracks and one of the greatest east coast tracks of all time.  That just goes to show what a fucking joke the deadbeat dad is.  Brain hates Jay-Z because to him Jay is fake.  Even though Jay founded his own lable from money made by hustling.  He actually made money doesn't have to go through renting cars and jewels for videos.  He actually worked his way out of the projects.  Yet Brian grew up worshiping rappers that would talk about what murderers they were and this that the other yet had no criminal records and can't afford to leave the projects.  Yet Jay is the fake one, go figure.   Brian's opinion on Jay is extremely bias yet he will use the fact he can tolerate Can't Knock the Hustle as proof he is giving Jay a fair shake, same principle though as the racist white guy that says he has a black friend.  Brian doesn't like Jay because of his bias and because half the shit Jay is spitting goes right over Brian's head.  He tries to paint himself as an intellectual but he is actually a fucking moron.

Personally I think Reasonable Doubt is a classic but it took some time to grow on me.  But to say the album is trash just shows how bias shit brick really is.

lol /endthread

[Sir Petey]

some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.

yeah music credibilty, puff was putting niggas on...jay still aint found an act that he has put on that has been successful, that in my opinion equals musical credibility.

jay didnt blow up till his third album niggas took a second to catch on to nas but not that damn long...

[Sir Petey]

alot of ppl here werent even listening to rap at the time, some of yall were still shitting in your pampers when these albums came out.

maybe it was a thing where you had to see the impact a record had on the culture. ppl didnt really check for reasonable doubt untill streets was watching dropped.

no way out carried the east coast for a minute...if u werent wutang affiliated back then east coast records werent popping as hard.

no way out lead to a tour that put brooklyn and harlem on its back, alot of cats ate on that tour...not that any of yall on a west coast forum give a shit but its true.

some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

i agree with you to a degree, i mean you'd be stupid to argue that puff around that time was more influential but we're speaking on a purely musical quality level, and we all know the only reason No Way Out was as big as it was and everyone wanted to hear what puff had to say is because of everything that had just happened with Biggie, and the subsequent success that Ill Be Missing You had...

but i still think, on a musical level, track for track, Reasonable Doubt is a better album... regardless of whether people were checking for it or not at the time, thats irrelevant as thats been the case with many albums which are now considered classics

lies, maybe you just had to be there...benjamins (pre remix) was already making the mixtape and radio circuit before big died and it was the hottest shit coming out of the eastcoast at that point by far.

puff at that point could do no wrong he had his hands all over jodeci and mary jay bliges career at that point as well as put on total, mase, 112 and another thing that you probably had to be there to see was that at one point and time craig mack was way hotter then biggie was. flavor in ya ear was the biggest hip hop record of that year. easily.


we all know puff is crooked and a douche but im speaking from a mid nineties state of mind right now...that nigga was every bit as hot as biggie was.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.

yeah music credibilty, puff was putting niggas on...jay still aint found an act that he has put on that has been successful, that in my opinion equals musical credibility.

jay didnt blow up till his third album niggas took a second to catch on to nas but not that damn long...

Puff was hot and made an impact....in the same way that Lil Wayne is hot now. That doesn't equal musical credibility. Especially when so many off his tracks were straight ripoffs of popular 80s tracks. Now I'll give him all the props as a businessman...but that's not what we're talking about.

Jay-Z has made plenty of artists successful, not that it matters. Why does Jay-Z need to put another artist on to have musical credibility? An artist should be recognized for their own work, not others.

[Sir Petey]

i guess what im trying to say is industry cred. and business sense.

and just becasue you know who memph bleek is dont mean hes successful...i cant really get with the lil wayne referance dont really stick to me becasue  for wayne to make moves he has to have his mgrs coordinate his buisness endevors, puff orchestrated his own movement and even produced a few records in his hay day...back in the day your record wasnt shit if it didnt have a pd remix on it.

artists like 112 can still tour, aint no one trying to see a memph bleek concert.

state prop could have blown up if jay didnt undermine theyre careers...and beans wasnt such a fucktard.

the only things rocafella did worth remembering are the things dame had his hands on.

yeah jay can rap his ass off but hes not the type of nigga to be ushering in new talent....he is the type to get around some niggas and bite theyre swag though (jaz o and young chris come to mind)

puff is the quincy jones of this rap shit, or at least he could have been.


im not even a big puff fan but facts is facts...puff had shit on lock and no one was calling reasonable doubt a classic till blueprint one came out.

puff was jays blueprint.

[Bananas]

Stop it Lyin' Brian.

[white Boy]

one of my favorite albums, great production and cool themes (scarface, godfather, carlito's way mixed with the hood)

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

lol how is Memphis Bleek the only one Jay-Z put on?....Kanye? Beanie Sigel? Cam'ron? The Diplomats? Freeway?