Author Topic: This Jay-Z Reasonable Doubt album is WEAK... and this is what built his career?  (Read 815 times)

BG Rapsodie

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some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.
 

Leggy Hendrix

alot of ppl here werent even listening to rap at the time, some of yall were still shitting in your pampers when these albums came out.

maybe it was a thing where you had to see the impact a record had on the culture. ppl didnt really check for reasonable doubt untill streets was watching dropped.

no way out carried the east coast for a minute...if u werent wutang affiliated back then east coast records werent popping as hard.

no way out lead to a tour that put brooklyn and harlem on its back, alot of cats ate on that tour...not that any of yall on a west coast forum give a shit but its true.

some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

i agree with you to a degree, i mean you'd be stupid to argue that puff around that time was more influential but we're speaking on a purely musical quality level, and we all know the only reason No Way Out was as big as it was and everyone wanted to hear what puff had to say is because of everything that had just happened with Biggie, and the subsequent success that Ill Be Missing You had...

but i still think, on a musical level, track for track, Reasonable Doubt is a better album... regardless of whether people were checking for it or not at the time, thats irrelevant as thats been the case with many albums which are now considered classics


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/LllJK5DjofM" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/LllJK5DjofM</a><a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/g7DMeTPvZCs" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/g7DMeTPvZCs</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/yRfQGXFRr30" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/yRfQGXFRr30</a>

dude im baning you mother over here in eu. but im not a white,brown,black,yellow etc. im your nightmare
 

Leggy Hendrix

Infinite's opinion on hip hop isn't worth the time of day.  A few years ago we we discussing rap and how much he hates Mobb Deep yet at that time never heard the track Shook Ones pt 2.  Mobb Deep's most popular tracks and one of the greatest east coast tracks of all time.  That just goes to show what a fucking joke the deadbeat dad is.  Brain hates Jay-Z because to him Jay is fake.  Even though Jay founded his own lable from money made by hustling.  He actually made money doesn't have to go through renting cars and jewels for videos.  He actually worked his way out of the projects.  Yet Brian grew up worshiping rappers that would talk about what murderers they were and this that the other yet had no criminal records and can't afford to leave the projects.  Yet Jay is the fake one, go figure.   Brian's opinion on Jay is extremely bias yet he will use the fact he can tolerate Can't Knock the Hustle as proof he is giving Jay a fair shake, same principle though as the racist white guy that says he has a black friend.  Brian doesn't like Jay because of his bias and because half the shit Jay is spitting goes right over Brian's head.  He tries to paint himself as an intellectual but he is actually a fucking moron.

Personally I think Reasonable Doubt is a classic but it took some time to grow on me.  But to say the album is trash just shows how bias shit brick really is.

lol /endthread


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dude im baning you mother over here in eu. but im not a white,brown,black,yellow etc. im your nightmare
 

Sir Petey

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some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.

yeah music credibilty, puff was putting niggas on...jay still aint found an act that he has put on that has been successful, that in my opinion equals musical credibility.

jay didnt blow up till his third album niggas took a second to catch on to nas but not that damn long...


Sir Petey

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alot of ppl here werent even listening to rap at the time, some of yall were still shitting in your pampers when these albums came out.

maybe it was a thing where you had to see the impact a record had on the culture. ppl didnt really check for reasonable doubt untill streets was watching dropped.

no way out carried the east coast for a minute...if u werent wutang affiliated back then east coast records werent popping as hard.

no way out lead to a tour that put brooklyn and harlem on its back, alot of cats ate on that tour...not that any of yall on a west coast forum give a shit but its true.

some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

i agree with you to a degree, i mean you'd be stupid to argue that puff around that time was more influential but we're speaking on a purely musical quality level, and we all know the only reason No Way Out was as big as it was and everyone wanted to hear what puff had to say is because of everything that had just happened with Biggie, and the subsequent success that Ill Be Missing You had...

but i still think, on a musical level, track for track, Reasonable Doubt is a better album... regardless of whether people were checking for it or not at the time, thats irrelevant as thats been the case with many albums which are now considered classics

lies, maybe you just had to be there...benjamins (pre remix) was already making the mixtape and radio circuit before big died and it was the hottest shit coming out of the eastcoast at that point by far.

puff at that point could do no wrong he had his hands all over jodeci and mary jay bliges career at that point as well as put on total, mase, 112 and another thing that you probably had to be there to see was that at one point and time craig mack was way hotter then biggie was. flavor in ya ear was the biggest hip hop record of that year. easily.


we all know puff is crooked and a douche but im speaking from a mid nineties state of mind right now...that nigga was every bit as hot as biggie was.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 02:20:51 PM by K1NG PETEY »
 

BG Rapsodie

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some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.

yeah music credibilty, puff was putting niggas on...jay still aint found an act that he has put on that has been successful, that in my opinion equals musical credibility.

jay didnt blow up till his third album niggas took a second to catch on to nas but not that damn long...



Puff was hot and made an impact....in the same way that Lil Wayne is hot now. That doesn't equal musical credibility. Especially when so many off his tracks were straight ripoffs of popular 80s tracks. Now I'll give him all the props as a businessman...but that's not what we're talking about.

Jay-Z has made plenty of artists successful, not that it matters. Why does Jay-Z need to put another artist on to have musical credibility? An artist should be recognized for their own work, not others.
 

Sir Petey

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i guess what im trying to say is industry cred. and business sense.

and just becasue you know who memph bleek is dont mean hes successful...i cant really get with the lil wayne referance dont really stick to me becasue  for wayne to make moves he has to have his mgrs coordinate his buisness endevors, puff orchestrated his own movement and even produced a few records in his hay day...back in the day your record wasnt shit if it didnt have a pd remix on it.

artists like 112 can still tour, aint no one trying to see a memph bleek concert.

state prop could have blown up if jay didnt undermine theyre careers...and beans wasnt such a fucktard.

the only things rocafella did worth remembering are the things dame had his hands on.

yeah jay can rap his ass off but hes not the type of nigga to be ushering in new talent....he is the type to get around some niggas and bite theyre swag though (jaz o and young chris come to mind)

puff is the quincy jones of this rap shit, or at least he could have been.


im not even a big puff fan but facts is facts...puff had shit on lock and no one was calling reasonable doubt a classic till blueprint one came out.

puff was jays blueprint.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 02:43:42 PM by K1NG PETEY »
 

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Stop it Lyin' Brian.
 

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one of my favorite albums, great production and cool themes (scarface, godfather, carlito's way mixed with the hood)
 

BG Rapsodie

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lol how is Memphis Bleek the only one Jay-Z put on?....Kanye? Beanie Sigel? Cam'ron? The Diplomats? Freeway?
 

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some of yall i suspect are just jay enthusiasts who cant really understand how at one point puff had more credibility musically then jay.

musical credibility? I don't think so. Popularity and impact, certainly, but then again the same can be said for Nas. No one was checking for illmatic when it dropped.

Not true at all...the real hiphop heads were looking at Nas as the second coming...and he didn't disappoint.  Did he go Platinum right away??? not even close, but the respect he got right away is undeniable.  Jigga, however, didn't bring ANYTHING new to the game.  I liked RD, but actually felt NAS IWW was better
 

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King PETEY is speaking the truth...and is likely one of the few posting in this thread (besides myself) who was heavy into hiphop at that time.   


BadBoy had the game on LOCK.  If you don't believe it, check Jay's second cd, and his first two singles!   Dude straight up jacked the BadBoy flavour.


City is Mine-  hmmm...a very prominent 80's sample

Sunshine- - ever seen the video?  STRAIGHT BadBoy




Illmatic is more my thing, or some Mecca and the Soul Brother, but I would also argue that No Way Out was a classic.  Was it perfect?  NOT EVEN CLOSE.  But it DID define an era.   I don't like Get Rich or Die Trying at all, but I'd argue to the death its a classic, feel me?
 

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lol how is Memphis Bleek the only one Jay-Z put on?....Kanye? Beanie Sigel? Cam'ron? The Diplomats? Freeway?

most of that was dame dash.



dame is responsible for signing kanye, dont forget by the time graduation came out "big brother" disowned kanye. kanye fell in jays good graces again when he blew the fuck up. he was the one that put state prop on and gave them a clothing label and shit, dont forget how jay fucked freeway over when he had the situation w g unit/roc. dame is totally responsible for camron and the dipset movement. jay didnt want any parts of that shit going on w rocafella and all thats well documented.

jay jumps on bandwagons he seldom sets trends like ppl think hes just so visable white folks dont see the trend until jays doing it.

Sir Petey

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King PETEY is speaking the truth...and is likely one of the few posting in this thread (besides myself) who was heavy into hiphop at that time.  


BadBoy had the game on LOCK.  If you don't believe it, check Jay's second cd, and his first two singles!   Dude straight up jacked the BadBoy flavour.


City is Mine-  hmmm...a very prominent 80's sample

Sunshine- - ever seen the video?  STRAIGHT BadBoy




Illmatic is more my thing, or some Mecca and the Soul Brother, but I would also argue that No Way Out was a classic.  Was it perfect?  NOT EVEN CLOSE.  But it DID define an era.   I don't like Get Rich or Die Trying at all, but I'd argue to the death its a classic, feel me?


good post my dude.

in many interviews jay and dame could be noted as saying " the bad boy era had our head fucked up" when referring to the shiny suits jay wore on shit like sunshine and money aint a thing.

puff produced records on that second album as well as the hit men and had lil kim on it etc.



jeromechickenbone

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Reasonable Doubt was great...there really is only a song or 2 I skip...one of those being "Ain't No Nigga".  EPMD did it way better - the hook made the farty bassline much more tolerable...

And yes, Jay was def jockin Bad Boy...In My Lifetime Vol 1 completely jacked the sampling, the visuals, Biggie's lyrics, etc.

And yeah, Puffy is a homo, but if you were into hip hop in the mid 90's then you'd know that everything he touched blew up.