Author Topic: Money is the Root of all Evil?  (Read 391 times)

Ant

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Money is the Root of all Evil?
« on: December 27, 2002, 09:52:58 PM »
"So you think money is the root of all evil?  Have you ever asked what is the root of all money?  Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them.  Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value.  Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force.  Money is made possible only by men who produce.  Is this what you consider evil?

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others.  It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money.  Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those peices of paper in your wallet into bread you will need to survive tommorrow.  Those peices of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor - your claim upon the energy of the men who produce.  Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money.  Is this what you consider evil?"

"you say money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak?  What strength do you mean? It is not strength of guns or muscles.  Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.  Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it?  Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools?  By the able at the expense of the lazy? Money is MADE - before it can be looted or mooched - made by the effot of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability.  An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he can produce."

"To trade means by means of money is the code of men of good will.  Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort.  Money allows no power to prescrive the value of your effort except the voluntary choice of the man who is wiling to trade you his effort in return.  Money permits you to abtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more.  Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgement of the traders.  Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss - the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery - that you must offer them value, not wounds - that the common bond among men is not the exchange of sufffering, but the exchange of goods.  Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but yout talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find.  And when men live by trade-with reason, not force, as their final arbiter 0 it is the best product that wins, the best performance, the man of best judgement and highest ability - and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward.  This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money.  Is this what you consider evil?"

"But money is not only a tool.  It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires.  Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of casuality - the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind."

"Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetant.  The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money relpacing his judgement, ends up becoming the victim of his inferiors.  The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money."

-Quotation taken from the character of Francisco D'Anconia in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged
« Last Edit: December 27, 2002, 09:54:14 PM by Ant »
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2002, 01:56:55 AM »
Yeah, I don't think money is the root of all evil, either.  It's just another thing people abuse.  I do think evil people are generally characterised by having a ton of money, even though of course there's exceptions.  Jesus never said money was the root of evil, but he did say it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it was for a rich man to get into heaven.  I think that's a good way of looking at it, not all rich people are bad but a lot are.  
 

Woodrow

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2002, 12:32:39 AM »
Who is John Galt?  ;)
 

Ant

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2002, 01:01:36 AM »
lol
 

Murrow

Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2002, 04:40:14 PM »
Religon is the root of all evil.

min0rity

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2002, 04:45:57 PM »
being ignorant is the root of all evil
 

Ant

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2002, 07:00:44 PM »
That's probably true but what is the root of all ignorance?  Ignorance causes lots of problems, we are all ignorant to some thing.  Does anyone desire ignorance?  Some people eventually do usually later in life.  Then ignorance becomes a shield.  But ignorance is something we all have to live with.   It can't be overcome.  So don't hate the ignorant person or label him evil.  Very few people are willingly ignorant, and very few people, even the supposed ignorant, consider themsevles ignorant.  

You probably don't consider yourself ignorant, but you are ignorant for certain things.  Just like I am.  I guess the point is, don't look down on ignorance, instead be grateful you aren't and humble enough to admit you are.  

Ignorance is an "evil", but its not evil.  

Personally, I don't believe in good or evil.  I believe everyone acts according to what they think is best.  You can only act on what you know.  In this sense I guess ignorance causes evil.  I just personally don't like hearing people negatively labelled ignorant and looked down upon.  If that makes sense.
 

min0rity

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2002, 07:44:50 PM »
yeah i agree ....everybody is ignorant...but i never look down at people who is unwillingly ignorant, we all are sometimes,  only those who chooses to be ignorant on purpose ..they can cause some serious problems although it may not seem like it
 

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2002, 10:26:38 PM »
Its like fire, if you play around with fire, and it burns down ure house, you cant say its the root of all evil.  Its how you use it, and how careful you are with it.  If its used properly, it gives you heat, light, energy etc... Same with money, it can corrupt ones mind, get people killed etc... But it can also be used for education, health, food, etc..

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Its Just Me Against The World, And The Evil That He Made...
 

Ant

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2002, 10:26:51 PM »
Willing ignorance kind of bothers me, but these people I feel worst for.  Although when their ignorance turns to arrogance then its hard not to get a little pissed off.

Although it depends what you mean by willingly ignorant.  I see people in day to day life that try to "enlighten" their fellow man and get pissed when he doesn't listen.  They then consider him willingly ignorant.  They tried to teach but their teachings were rejected.  There could be any number of reasons for this.  Teaching depends on a lot of things, a few of which are respect, reason, and consistancy.    

If you show someone something and they don't listen its either because they don't respect you enough to listen to your advice (respect is something you have no right to force), or you didn't provide sufficient reason for them to listen to your advice, or the person that gives advice isn't consistent.  They don't practice what they preach.  A person that doesn't listen to advice should be neither blamed nor pitied, in my opinion at least.  Personally when I encounter such people I just pay them no mind.  I remain indifferent.

There is another popular form of willing ignorance.  It comes later in life after people have held to their convictions for many years only to find out that their convictions were wrong.  It probably hits them suddenly for a split second and then they fall back on thier ignorance to save them from despair.  They don't want to look back at all the wasted years, they think thier was too many years wasted to change now.  Its better to go on believing I was right.  They give up learning anything new, they hide from anything that challenges their beliefs.


Perhaps I got a little off topic, but the above explains the predominant form of willing ignorance existant in society today. People say it takes strength to stand by your convictions. It may take even more to let them go.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2002, 10:33:17 PM by Ant »
 

Suga Foot

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2002, 11:00:36 AM »
"If Money Is The Root, I want the Whole Damn Tree"  



lol, I couldn't resist.
 

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2002, 07:12:23 PM »
You can't argue with what was originally quoted.  People view money as evil because the human being is naturally greedy, and many people allow money and the pursuit of it to corrupt them.  Look at Tony Montana, he became addicted to the cheese, and that fucked with him.  It's like a drug, and that's where Jesus was coming from when he said it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it was for a rich man to get into heaven.  It's harder for a rich man to get in than a poor man, because it is more likely that the rich man has been corrupted by money.  So money isn't the root of all evil, but man's faults mean that money twists people.

And ignorance is bliss.  I worry about the problems in the world cause I know about them.  Someone who doesn't know about them will not be troubled about them.

The other type of ignorance is NIK ignorance when you preach about a subject when not knowing more than 1% about it.
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2002, 08:07:39 PM »
being ignorant is the root of all evil

Haha, excellent quote.  
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2002, 08:09:44 PM »
^^ When I hear about problems in the world, I dont' worry about them; I just realize that I usually have no control over them, and i'm worry free.  
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2002, 08:11:34 PM »

If you show someone something and they don't listen its either because they don't respect you enough to listen to your advice (respect is something you have no right to force), or you didn't provide sufficient reason for them to listen to your advice, or the person that gives advice isn't consistent.  They don't practice what they preach.  A person that doesn't listen to advice should be neither blamed nor pitied, in my opinion at least.  Personally when I encounter such people I just pay them no mind.  I remain indifferent.

You left one out.  With me, usually when I don't listen to someone, it's because I have something else on my mind, and i'm not open to communication on that level at that time.  If somebody wants to talk to me about religion, or whatever, that's cool, but sometimes, I wanna talk about my gamecube, or I want to stick my tongue out at somebody... not everybody is walking around all day looking for lessons at every moment.  
 

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2002, 11:09:35 PM »
You can't argue with what was originally quoted.  People view money as evil because the human being is naturally greedy, and many people allow money and the pursuit of it to corrupt them.  Look at Tony Montana, he became addicted to the cheese, and that fucked with him.  It's like a drug, and that's where Jesus was coming from when he said it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it was for a rich man to get into heaven.  It's harder for a rich man to get in than a poor man, because it is more likely that the rich man has been corrupted by money.  So money isn't the root of all evil, but man's faults mean that money twists people.

I reccomend that you pick up Atlas Shruged and read the whole thing...
 

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2002, 07:03:25 AM »
why?
 

min0rity

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2002, 08:52:32 AM »
one thing i wanted to mention was that i hate motherfuckers who WANTS to be ignorant even though they themselves know that they're wrong, their 'ego' prevents them from correcting themselves....they just dont want to listen...that i hate more than anything in the world
 

Ant

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2003, 06:28:02 AM »
Money is simply a medium of exchange.  Its silly to call it the root of all evil,or to even blame it for its damage to society.  It's like this, back in the day if your dad was a chicken rancher and you wanted to go to school he would have to pay the teacher in chickens.  You had to trade your goods/services for other goods/services.  This is the beginning of money.  The only other option is to simply produce everything yourself, in which case we would still all be farmers without TV living in huts.  

Eventually someone realized that its a pain in the ass always having to trade because it required what is refered to as the "double coincidence of wants."  I had to have something you wanted, you needed something I wanted or else we couldn't trade.  So we progressed into turning precious metals (gold/silver) into money that could be used for trade.  But gold was pretty heavy and still not the best option yet.  So we progressed again to paper money, its light, portable, and accepted by everyone.  Now we don't have to worry about "the double coincidence of wants" nor do we have to worry about carry about carts of gold.  This is the root of all money.  It is a necesary part of society.

To return to the initial quote.  Money is what you receive for your efforts.  The amount you possess is an indicator of your value and your work contributed to society.  Those that say money is evil, must not want to work.  That's fair enough, but in saying that you should realize that without money you would have to work much harder.  All the progress we have enjoyed from money wouldn't exist in a world without money.  In a world without money their would be no trade, no techonlogical development, no books, or colleges.  That might sound far fetched but if money didn't exist authors wouldn't write for who would they sell to?  Technological development wouldn't exist without forcing people together to work on it.  Money allows people to work collectively of their own free will.  You say socialism conquers this problem, but socialism and freedom can't exist.  To quote Fyodor Dovestsky "Assurance of bread and water and freedom cannot coexist." Basically, if I'm going to insure that you have something to eat, I also have to insure that another person makes that food for you.  Somewhere along the way, a person's freedom is sacrificed.  

Why should you read Atlas Shrugged?  It's an interesting arguement against socialism, alturism, and many american ideals.  While I can't say I totally argee with her, I can that those people who wish to make a stand for altruism, and socialism should read the opposing arguements.  Many people get off on the fact that they can prove their friends, neighbors, etc. wrong but how many of you can prove wrong the strongest opposing arguement to your own beliefs.  Finally, the book is just enjoying, positive, and motivating.  It gives you a greater appreciation for life, your own specifically.
 

ITW [the irish boy]

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2003, 08:57:06 AM »
Is money the root of all evil. No
Is money the root of most evil. Yes

Money is not used right. We have good people, who have houses with 2 cars and a swimming pool, and we have good people living in a one roomed apartment with two kids. We have good people sleeping on our streets.
Money makes the good rich people want more, the latest car, the latest tv set, the nicest restaurant. It denies the poor family from basic human rights, makes them feel inferior to the rich. It keeps good homeless people in a vicious circle of poverty. It makes rich business people put economic growth ahead of helping those in need. It makes young unemployed people commit crime in pursuit of a better life. On the global scene, america tyranises the rest of the world with its money, and they respond by dying and fighting for moneyy

Still....moneys not the problem, it's how people use it.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2003, 08:59:58 AM by Irish_thug_wannabe »
SO MANY PEOPLE THINK THEY KNOW
BUT DO THEY KNOW TO THINK
THINK ABOUT THINKING
BEFORE THEY KNOW NOTHING
DID THEY KNOW SOMETHING
LETS THINK
 

Murrow

Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2003, 12:43:08 PM »
What about Religion?

Religion is the reason why there is turmoil in the Middle East; and the reason why the WTC/Pentagon where taken down.  

I don't think there ever will be peace until there is some type of 'one religion' thing.  

Like there is this book that is about a Eutopian society and there is NO religion/God.

ITW [the irish boy]

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2003, 03:27:22 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree with that
SO MANY PEOPLE THINK THEY KNOW
BUT DO THEY KNOW TO THINK
THINK ABOUT THINKING
BEFORE THEY KNOW NOTHING
DID THEY KNOW SOMETHING
LETS THINK
 

bLaDe HeLi[X]

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2003, 03:34:57 PM »
What about Religion?

Religion is the reason why there is turmoil in the Middle East; and the reason why the WTC/Pentagon where taken down.  

I don't think there ever will be peace until there is some type of 'one religion' thing.  

Like there is this book that is about a Eutopian society and there is NO religion/God.

I dont think religion is the root of evil, like sumone said, ignorance is.  I mean, like that you can blame music for sumones actions too...  If a hardcore eminem fan, listens to em talk about killing his wife and mom, and he does the same, you cant blame Eminem for it.  nuhmean...

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Murrow

Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2003, 03:45:59 PM »
Yeah, I mean; religion isn't the reason for evil - I ment that it is the cause of many conflicts because people disagree with other people's belief's.

Ant

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Re:Money is the Root of all Evil?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2003, 08:25:21 AM »
I don't think there is a root of all evil.  There are certain causes of "evil."  But no definite roots.  I made this post to dispell a common myth that money is the root of evil.  In actuality nothing is the root.

Ignorance may be a greater cause of evil than money.  But how can you blame the unavoidable?  There are certain things I am ignorant to which I am unaware of.  I make bad decisions as a result of this ignorance.  Perhaps even "evil" decisions.  But there is a cause for my ignorance, just as their is a cause for every other man's ignorance.  The only all knowing being supposedly is God.  

To blame the necesary and unavoidable as a the root of something is silly.  Money is necesary for our survival.  Ignorance is unavoidable.